From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jun 26 13:29:10 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, June 26 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3368 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: RE: RE: emissions test RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 Re: diesel vs. gasoline Re: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 fsj: turbo Diesel options... a little history fsj: no sale. FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:48:28 -0700 From: "Joe" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: RE: emissions test Or just disconnect the blow-by tube from the intake. Joe H. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim Blair Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:50 AM To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com; local Jeep list Subject: RE: fsj: RE: RE: emissions test I would change oil first. (High CO usually means contaminated oil from blowby is being sucked into the motor at RPM) Timing too far retarded can cause CO as well (spark doesn't get a chance to fully burn the mix before the exhaust valves open) What were the NOx readings?? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > To: john-at-wagoneers.com; joe-at-j-hughes.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: RE: emissions test > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:00:20 +0000 > > High CO is really incomplete combustion due to an unbalanced mix, just like > the folks who die in their home w all the fresh air vent plugged, they breath > high CO. > > So either plugged AF or too much gas being dumped: as said "idle mixture" is a > quick cheat but at 6x the passing value: it can be a overactive power valve at > cruise, partially closed choke flapper. If we give us the idle value that will > be nice. Without AIR, you will get higher HC, without EGR it is high NOX. > Sometime people lean the carb too much and get some high HC. I suspect that > the choke was checked prior to testing, and that the engine was at running > temp for 10 miles or so and that it was left idling prior to testing. > > Michel > >> Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:10:08 -0700 >> From: john-at-wagoneers.com >> To: joe-at-j-hughes.com >> CC: fsj-at-digest.net >> Subject: fsj: RE: RE: emissions test >> >> cruise >> _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that^Rs right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:15:46 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 What about the ones that did and still call it pollution? Gov't conspiracy? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:40:10 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: xj-at-digest.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 > > because they're run by a bunch of ignorant bureaucrats who > listen to a bunch of granola eaters, neither of which > ever studied chemistry, physics or mechanics... > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > # > # "efficiency, non-toxic, non-polluting, and with gobs of torque and reliability..." > # Then why do so many agencies regulate the stink from diesels? > # > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # > # > # > # > # ---------------------------------------- > #> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:43 -0700 > #> From: john-at-wagoneers.com > #> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > #> CC: xj-at-digest.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; fsj-at-digest.net > #> Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 > #> > #> well, I was exploring the possibilities of making an economical > #> toxic-stink motor... but then I remembered the green machine purpose... > #> > #> efficiency, non-toxic, non-polluting, and with gobs of torque and reliability... > #> > #> only with an oil-burner... spark plugs not required... > #> > #> real engines rattle... > #> > #> > #> > #> ----- > #> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > #> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > #> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > #> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > #> > #> > #> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > #> > #> # > #> # But the subject was "fuel economy for the 4.0"! LOL! (they don't run as well on Dsmell) > #> # > #> # > #> # From: john > #> # Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 > #> # > #> # I have free BioDiesel... must have a Diesel engine... > #> # > #> # john > #> # > #> # _________________________________________________________________ > #> # Windows Live(TM) SkyDrive(TM): Get 25 GB of free online storage. > #> # http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 > #> # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you. > # http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 > # _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that^Rs right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:33:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 no, still ignorance... if it was a gov't conspiracy the europeans would have gone that route. :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # What about the ones that did and still call it pollution? Gov't conspiracy? # # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # # # ---------------------------------------- # > Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:40:10 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: xj-at-digest.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 # > # > because they're run by a bunch of ignorant bureaucrats who # > listen to a bunch of granola eaters, neither of which # > ever studied chemistry, physics or mechanics... # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # # > # # > # "efficiency, non-toxic, non-polluting, and with gobs of torque and # reliability..." # > # Then why do so many agencies regulate the stink from diesels? # > # # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # ---------------------------------------- # > #> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:43 -0700 # > #> From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > #> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > #> CC: xj-at-digest.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; fsj-at-digest.net # > #> Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 # > #> # > #> well, I was exploring the possibilities of making an economical # > #> toxic-stink motor... but then I remembered the green machine purpose... # > #> # > #> efficiency, non-toxic, non-polluting, and with gobs of torque and # reliability... # > #> # > #> only with an oil-burner... spark plugs not required... # > #> # > #> real engines rattle... # > #> # > #> # > #> # > #> ----- # > #> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > #> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > #> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > #> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > #> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > #> # > #> # > #> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # > #> # > #> # # > #> # But the subject was "fuel economy for the 4.0"! LOL! (they don't run as # well on Dsmell) # > #> # # > #> # # > #> # From: john # > #> # Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 # > #> # # > #> # I have free BioDiesel... must have a Diesel engine... # > #> # # > #> # john # > #> # # > #> # _________________________________________________________________ # > #> # Windows Live(TM) SkyDrive(TM): Get 25 GB of free online storage. # > #> # # http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 # > #> # # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that's right for you. # > # http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that^Rs right for you. # http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:59:00 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 Interesting subject to evaluate, which lead to the the other aspect of pollution control: who decides on what goes into gasoline to lower smog emissions..... If we remember the mTBE issues which has polluted most of the aquifers, at least in California, the fact that most of the additives are yielding worse gas mileage than the previous blends. I am sure that there is no peer reviews for allow for those "mix". The industry decides and there we are with alcohol that is roting a lot of gas tanks. Which bring the other subject: why did the price of oil shoot up and went down and who benefited from this, London tells us that the transactions are confidential and none of our elected officials which are always "helping us" have tried to do anything to curb the secrecy. Michel > From: carnuck > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 > What about the ones that did and still call it pollution? Gov't conspiracy? > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live^Y SkyDrive^Y: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:20:42 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: diesel vs. gasoline Re: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 right on ernest!!! dude, you rock! what really smells better than bioDiesel is WVO... depending on where you get the oil it smells like a bBQ! there was one burger place in Seattle that used really good oil and had great burgers... using their WVO blended it smelled like a steak BBQ! I'm trying to decide what to do for my daily Diesel driver/WVO getter... I'm looking at a '99 F250, a '94 6.5, a '90 6.2, a '93 6.2/w turbo, an '83 ranger with a gutless mazda, an '80 IH traveller with the SD33T, converting an XJ to a Diesel with my SD33T or a Mercedes Diesel... or putting my SD33T into my '83 J10 stepside... of course the '99 WJ is standing by to chase parts and my wife is using my '91 300D for running about in preparation of the august wedding... saving us a bundle on fuel... love that benz... would love to have a new(er) VW Toureg, Benz with all or four wheel drive... don't want a freight train, but will take it if it's a Diesel and gets 17 to 18 in town... A Diesel XJ would be awesome, but not so good for hauling WVO about... too bad they didn't make extended cab J10s or MJs... :( john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, ernest breakfield wrote: # hi Jim! # # stink? that's an opinion, and in a large part related to the crappy # fuel that was forced upon the Amerikun public by the trucking industry # until just a few years ago. # frankly, i don't think the smell from our family diesel-car is that # bad, but that's in large part because we run BioD made from used Veggie # Oil in it most of the time (something you don't even have the option of # doing with a gasoline engine). # # as to why diesel emissions are regulated, 'why' depends on where you # are (read: which country you're talking about). note that a huge # percentage of passenger cars are diesels in most countries other than # the US; they're not hobbled by the same anti-diesel bias that the US # trucking and US auto manufacturers left the Amerikun public with. # # for the most part, though, diesel emissions are regulated for the # same reason gasoline motor emissions are regulated; most people want # cleaner air but aren't willing to make the necessary personal effort to # get it. # # as it is now, new Clean Diesels are some of the lowest in emissions # in history, even running PetroDiesel. # if more auto manufacturers will get with the program and make their # new emission control systems BioFuel-compatible, we'll be able to have # all the advantages of diesel engines and the chance to know and control # where our fuel was grown. ;-) # # # cheers! # e # # # Jim Blair wrote: # > "efficiency, non-toxic, non-polluting, and with gobs of torque and # > reliability..." # > Then why do so many agencies regulate the stink from diesels? # > # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ---------------------------------------- # > # >> Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:43 -0700 # >> From: john-at-wagoneers.com # >> To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # >> CC: xj-at-digest.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; fsj-at-digest.net # >> Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 # >> # >> well, I was exploring the possibilities of making an economical # >> toxic-stink motor... but then I remembered the green machine purpose... # >> # >> efficiency, non-toxic, non-polluting, and with gobs of torque and # >> # > reliability... # > # >> only with an oil-burner... spark plugs not required... # >> # >> real engines rattle... # >> # >> # >> # >> ----- # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # >> http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> # >> # >> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # >> # >> # # >> # But the subject was "fuel economy for the 4.0"! LOL! (they don't run as # >> # > well on Dsmell) # > # >> # # >> # # >> # From: john # >> # Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 # >> # # >> # I have free BioDiesel... must have a Diesel engine... # >> # # >> # john # >> # # >> # _________________________________________________________________ # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:27:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 the main issue with Diesel fuel over the last 20 years or so has been the sulfur content... the sulfur provided lubricity for the pumps... when california mandated lower sulfur content they ran afoul with the truckers because they didn't think it through well and damaged a lot of big rig pumps... just prior to the move to lower sulfur fuel the refineries dumped a lot of higher sulfur fuel out there... my Diesels at the time were smoking like an old locomotive... had an '80 Olds 5.7 and that '85 xj with the 2.1L TD at the time... once they switched it cleaned up... but mileage dropped... sulfur in the fuel was determined to be part of the acid rain issue that plagued a lot of places back east and in Europe... the black forest in Germany has been affected by this problem... not sure what the Europeans did to mitigate this issue... is there a speed limit on the autobahn now between Basel and Karlsrue? remember seeing or hearing something about it... gas engines had similar issues but with different chemistry... clean exhaust is a good thing... the more efficient you make the engine the less pollutants... fuel injection on gas engines has helped a lot... Diesel inherently is more efficient and less polluting, despite the black smoke... carbon particles... or soot... any particulate matter breathed by humans is not a good thing... but not as toxic as gas engine emissions... carbon monoxide, the acids, and other nasties... like I say, Diesels are safer than gas engines... how many folks have ever committed suicide by locking themselves in their garage with a Diesel vehicle running? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 26 Jun 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # # # Interesting subject to evaluate, which lead to the the other aspect of pollution control: who decides on what goes into gasoline to lower smog emissions..... # # If we remember the mTBE issues which has polluted most of the aquifers, at least in California, the fact that most of the additives are yielding worse gas mileage than the previous blends. I am sure that there is no peer reviews for allow for those "mix". The industry decides and there we are with alcohol that is roting a lot of gas tanks. # # Which bring the other subject: why did the price of oil shoot up and went down and who benefited from this, London tells us that the transactions are confidential and none of our elected officials which are always "helping us" have tried to do anything to curb the secrecy. # # Michel # # > From: carnuck # > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: fuel economy for the 4.0 # # > What about the ones that did and still call it pollution? Gov't conspiracy? # # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # _________________________________________________________________ # Windows Live(TM) SkyDrive(TM): Get 25 GB of free online storage. # http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:38:29 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: turbo Diesel options... a little history I found an '80 IH Travelall with the SD33T... its got the same running gear I have sitting in my carport right now... it even has a nice color scheme... giving it serious consideration as it should get reasonable mileage in town and further verify my Diesel plans for superdawg... it's also interesting to note that the Traveller has the same wheelbase (almost) as the J10. 118 inches. from page 382 of Standard Catalog of American Four-Wheel Drive Vehicles by Robert C. Ackerson... a must for any serious gearhead's library... "Along with the familiar V-8 and 4-cylinder engine choices for the Scout International continued to offer its customers a Diesel engine option. But for 1980 this engine took on a new character by virtue of its AiResearch T0-3 turbocharger. To cope with the additional stress resulting from the turbocharger's 6.5 pounds of manifold pressure the Diesel, now identified as the 6-33T, differed in many ways from its predecessor, the 6-33, which was no longer offered as a Scout option. During each engine cycle a jet of oil was sprayed over the top of each piston for cooling purposes. (ED. Note: I think this should have read UNDER each piston) To meet the requirements of this process and to also properly lubricate the turbocharger the Diesel's oil capacity was increased to 9.2 qts. from the previous 8 qt. level. A new higher capacity oil pump provided an oil flow of 12.7 gallons per minute as compared to the older pump's rate of 11.1 gallons per minute. The oil pump drive spindle was also strengthened. Other revisions included use of larger camshaft journals, redesigned crankshaft arms, larger cyliner head ports, an oil cooler with five instead of three cores and a larger air cleaner element. The turbocharged Diesel with ratings of 101 horsepower -at- 3800 rpm and 178 lb-ft. of torque at 2200 rpm was approximately 20 percent more powerful than the older Diesel. International's confidence both about the durability of the 6-33T Diesel and the effectiveness of its anti-corrosion program was manifested by its five year or 100,000 mile limted engine durability and anti-corrosion warranty. The turbocharged Diesel was optional in all four Scout models and its list price of $2496 included a large capacity battery, tilt wheel and either the close or wide-ratio 4-speed manual transmission. Standard axle ratio for the Diesel was 3.73:1 with 3.54:1 optional. Diesel Scouts were not available with an automatic transmission. ... Scout production ceased on October 31, 1980 after a production run of 523,674 units." ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: no sale. someone came out and looked at the cj-10a... they liked it, but the last few remaining details were more than they wanted to address... so that means I should stop shopping for a Diesel 4x4 or XJ and get out to my shop and fix those few things and keep it... ;) maybe swap that Turbo Diesel in so I get that 20% more power... :) after all, the prevailing opinon is probably correct, I may never see my J10 in one piece ever again... :( seeing it's been apart since April or May 2001, wow... the cj-10a meets my requirements: 4x4, Diesel, Automatic, hauls WVO. of course it doesn't have (or need) A/C, but is radically cool. so, what were the things I needed to deal with on the SD33 to SD33T again? throttle linkage, exhaust outlet... I think that's it... I might switch over the spin on oil-filter assembly... or not, the cannister probably holds more oil, right? Hey, have a three day weekend coming up... :) jeep/Diesel fest in snohomish anyone? it's been awhile since we've had a gathering at the monster carport... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3368 **************************