From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jul 20 12:36:22 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, July 20 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3381 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Diesels and ATs fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs fsj: OT: History Channel - 40th anniverary of the Moon shot - tonight... (7/20/2009) (fwd) RE: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:51:00 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Re: Diesels and ATs I'm not opposed to a manual gearbox... Superdawg (83 J10) has one and it has worked fine for me. I'm not commuting in heavy freeway traffic any more (PTL!) and the only issue with my lower back has been with XJs. A manual Mercedes, most cars, FSJs and even a Ford Ranger were fine. If I could mate my T-5 to a 602 or 603 in Superdawg that would be awesome. Mating an AW4 to a 602 or 603 would be even better... the AW4 has been the best transmission I've ever seen in a Jeep, other than the 45RFE in my '99 WJs. The AW4 can be modified to shift manually or without a full computer setup too. With a small Diesel a manual is preferred... besides, downshifting to slow down a Diesel is just so cool... jamming gears in a Diesel helps reduce the boredom too... my wife doesn't like me taking pictures while driving, so what else am I supposed to do? Can't read a book... can't check email... speed limits are just too dang slow here in the states. ;) I've priced out the 602/603 (2.5/3.0L TD - hydraulic lifters, higher pressure pump, timing chain I-5/6) used and they're within budget... that is when I sell the SD33T with all the extra pieces to cover the cost... Still haven't completely eliminated Nick's 6AT Cummins(onan) either. That has a chevy bellhousing and I could use a 700R4. I would even be willing to fabricate my own adapter, Mark bought a combo mill/lathe... we're kind of setting up the carport for machine work... have a friend out of work who might be able to help me upgrade the wiring... will set it up so we can use the generator to power the house as well. Anyway, if I keep the stock running gear behind a Benz Diesel it makes the swap so much less troublesome... all I need to deal with are mounts, front axle clearance and getting a flywheel... or flex plate / torque converter... Any one know of adapters for Mercedes Diesels? In my current pile of transmissions I have: AW4 (jeep 4speed auto) - for sale T-5 (currently mated to my 4.2) T-176 was mated to a 4.2 - for sale T-18 Scout - for sale (along with the Dana 300 pass drop) TF727 with big block pattern (no torque converter) The other option of course is to adapt the output of the Mercedes Automatic to a Jeep xfr case... I wonder if the Borg Warner xfr cases used in the ML series are passenger or driver's side drop??? A divorced case setup might work... have had a number of ideas on how to do this... with the J10 I have enough frame/driveshaft length to work with. Thanx Kevin, I needed this little bit of encouragement... still recovering from that allergy attack after the fourth and was almost starting to spin up a whole new popcorn cycle... was looking for dead WJs and XJs to do a conversion on... but funds are depleted and there's nothing to sell... no teaching gigs on the horizon... ;) I don't dare sell the tug, will need it as a reference if I do the SD33T swap, and will need a parts chaser/daily driver while going through the dawg. I really like the little tug, but without a/c it's going to be a real problem for me... I'm thinking that my allergies/respiratory sensitivities are only going to get worse as I get older... whatever I build better have a/c. Speaking of a/c, need to get my 300D in the shop to figure out where it's leaking... toss a can of 134 in it and it'll last for about two days... $8 / can, probably still cheaper than the shop repair... ;) BTW, there's a rusted Diesel Landcruiser for sale down in Oregon for $3k, 4 speed, passenger side drop. :( john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: # If it wasn't that you wanted an automatic, I saw a guy on the rubicon last # month with an FJ-40 landcruiser with an OM617. Had an SM420 in it for the 7.1:1 # first gear. Looked like an adapter that if it wasn't a commercially available # one, it was a pre-production prototype. # # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 09:06:33AM -0700, diesel john wrote: # > the other thoughts are to find a Mercedes 2.5 or 3.0 L TD from # > an '87 to '93 and figuring out how to mate it to a AW4 or setting # > of a divorced xfr case to use the benz AT. we'll see... # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs looks simple enough: http://www.4x4labs.com/galleries/benzconversion/benzconversion.html looks like they took a slab of aluminum alloy and started trimming and drilling... :) there is hope... thanx Kevin. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: # I know it was an SM420, so unless it was a GM T-5 (they exist, friend has # one in a 305 firebird), probably not. Looked through my notes, this was # the guy: http://www.4x4labs.com/dieselconversions.shtml # # The roll your own option has some merits as well. I saw a picture a while # back where a guy adapted off the back of the 722.3's three bolt rubber # donut a four bolt flange that attached to a spline that was attached to # a toyota pickup transfercase. Lots of people use pieces of the old pickup # transfercase between their existing transmission and another transfercase # for a crawl box, and the old ones (from the carbed trucks) were gear driven # and quite stout. But its problem is the same as that diesel landcruiser you # posted - it's passenger drop. To go the toyota route, you'd need to use a # tacoma case, which is driver's drop. Or go divorced with a case from an old # ford, which is likely the easiest route, but not likely to yield anything # remotely close to a good low range (2:1 unless you want to drop another # grand to make it 3:1). Don't think you're hoping to make a rock buggy out of it # though. # # Another thing about that landcruiser - landcruiser splitcases are offset # rear, so it's not just the front that is passenger drop. # # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:51:00AM -0700, diesel john wrote: # > I'm not opposed to a manual gearbox... Superdawg (83 J10) # > has one and it has worked fine for me. I'm not commuting in # > heavy freeway traffic any more (PTL!) and the only issue # > with my lower back has been with XJs. A manual Mercedes, most cars, # > FSJs and even a Ford Ranger were fine. # > # > If I could mate my T-5 to a 602 or 603 in Superdawg that would be awesome. # > Mating an AW4 to a 602 or 603 would be even better... the AW4 has been # > the best transmission I've ever seen in a Jeep, other than the 45RFE in # > my '99 WJs. The AW4 can be modified to shift manually or without a full # > computer setup too. # > # > With a small Diesel a manual is preferred... besides, downshifting # > to slow down a Diesel is just so cool... jamming gears in a # > Diesel helps reduce the boredom too... my wife doesn't # > like me taking pictures while driving, so what else am I supposed # > to do? Can't read a book... can't check email... # > speed limits are just too dang slow here in the states. ;) # > # > I've priced out the 602/603 (2.5/3.0L TD - hydraulic lifters, higher # > pressure pump, timing chain I-5/6) used and they're within budget... # > that is when I sell the SD33T with all the extra pieces to cover the # > cost... Still haven't completely eliminated Nick's 6AT Cummins(onan) # > either. That has a chevy bellhousing and I could use a 700R4. # > # > I would even be willing to fabricate my own adapter, Mark # > bought a combo mill/lathe... we're kind of setting up the carport for # > machine work... have a friend out of work who might be able to help # > me upgrade the wiring... will set it up so we can use the generator # > to power the house as well. # > # > Anyway, if I keep the stock running gear behind a Benz Diesel it # > makes the swap so much less troublesome... all I need to # > deal with are mounts, front axle clearance and getting a # > flywheel... or flex plate / torque converter... # > # > # > Any one know of adapters for Mercedes Diesels? # > # > In my current pile of transmissions I have: # > AW4 (jeep 4speed auto) - for sale # > T-5 (currently mated to my 4.2) # > T-176 was mated to a 4.2 - for sale # > T-18 Scout - for sale (along with the Dana 300 pass drop) # > TF727 with big block pattern (no torque converter) # > # > The other option of course is to adapt the output of the Mercedes # > Automatic to a Jeep xfr case... I wonder if the Borg Warner xfr # > cases used in the ML series are passenger or driver's side drop??? # > A divorced case setup might work... have had a number of ideas # > on how to do this... with the J10 I have enough frame/driveshaft # > length to work with. # > # > # > Thanx Kevin, I needed this little bit of encouragement... still # > recovering from that allergy attack after the fourth and was almost # > starting to spin up a whole new popcorn cycle... was looking for dead WJs # > and XJs to do a conversion on... but funds are depleted and there's # > nothing to sell... no teaching gigs on the horizon... ;) I don't # > dare sell the tug, will need it as a reference if I do the SD33T swap, # > and will need a parts chaser/daily driver while going through the dawg. # > # > I really like the little tug, but without a/c it's going to be a # > real problem for me... I'm thinking that my allergies/respiratory # > sensitivities are only going to get worse as I get older... whatever # > I build better have a/c. Speaking of a/c, need to get my 300D in # > the shop to figure out where it's leaking... toss a can of 134 in # > it and it'll last for about two days... $8 / can, probably still cheaper # > than the shop repair... ;) # > # > BTW, there's a rusted Diesel Landcruiser for sale down in Oregon for $3k, 4 speed, # > passenger side drop. :( # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:41:56 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs what about the NP205 with the Ford C6 sitting in my shop? not a single soul has looked at this thing... driver's side drop. http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/c6-np205-1.jpg http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/c6-np205-2.jpg john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: # I know it was an SM420, so unless it was a GM T-5 (they exist, friend has # one in a 305 firebird), probably not. Looked through my notes, this was # the guy: http://www.4x4labs.com/dieselconversions.shtml # # The roll your own option has some merits as well. I saw a picture a while # back where a guy adapted off the back of the 722.3's three bolt rubber # donut a four bolt flange that attached to a spline that was attached to # a toyota pickup transfercase. Lots of people use pieces of the old pickup # transfercase between their existing transmission and another transfercase # for a crawl box, and the old ones (from the carbed trucks) were gear driven # and quite stout. But its problem is the same as that diesel landcruiser you # posted - it's passenger drop. To go the toyota route, you'd need to use a # tacoma case, which is driver's drop. Or go divorced with a case from an old # ford, which is likely the easiest route, but not likely to yield anything # remotely close to a good low range (2:1 unless you want to drop another # grand to make it 3:1). Don't think you're hoping to make a rock buggy out of it # though. # # Another thing about that landcruiser - landcruiser splitcases are offset # rear, so it's not just the front that is passenger drop. # # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:51:00AM -0700, diesel john wrote: # > I'm not opposed to a manual gearbox... Superdawg (83 J10) # > has one and it has worked fine for me. I'm not commuting in # > heavy freeway traffic any more (PTL!) and the only issue # > with my lower back has been with XJs. A manual Mercedes, most cars, # > FSJs and even a Ford Ranger were fine. # > # > If I could mate my T-5 to a 602 or 603 in Superdawg that would be awesome. # > Mating an AW4 to a 602 or 603 would be even better... the AW4 has been # > the best transmission I've ever seen in a Jeep, other than the 45RFE in # > my '99 WJs. The AW4 can be modified to shift manually or without a full # > computer setup too. # > # > With a small Diesel a manual is preferred... besides, downshifting # > to slow down a Diesel is just so cool... jamming gears in a # > Diesel helps reduce the boredom too... my wife doesn't # > like me taking pictures while driving, so what else am I supposed # > to do? Can't read a book... can't check email... # > speed limits are just too dang slow here in the states. ;) # > # > I've priced out the 602/603 (2.5/3.0L TD - hydraulic lifters, higher # > pressure pump, timing chain I-5/6) used and they're within budget... # > that is when I sell the SD33T with all the extra pieces to cover the # > cost... Still haven't completely eliminated Nick's 6AT Cummins(onan) # > either. That has a chevy bellhousing and I could use a 700R4. # > # > I would even be willing to fabricate my own adapter, Mark # > bought a combo mill/lathe... we're kind of setting up the carport for # > machine work... have a friend out of work who might be able to help # > me upgrade the wiring... will set it up so we can use the generator # > to power the house as well. # > # > Anyway, if I keep the stock running gear behind a Benz Diesel it # > makes the swap so much less troublesome... all I need to # > deal with are mounts, front axle clearance and getting a # > flywheel... or flex plate / torque converter... # > # > # > Any one know of adapters for Mercedes Diesels? # > # > In my current pile of transmissions I have: # > AW4 (jeep 4speed auto) - for sale # > T-5 (currently mated to my 4.2) # > T-176 was mated to a 4.2 - for sale # > T-18 Scout - for sale (along with the Dana 300 pass drop) # > TF727 with big block pattern (no torque converter) # > # > The other option of course is to adapt the output of the Mercedes # > Automatic to a Jeep xfr case... I wonder if the Borg Warner xfr # > cases used in the ML series are passenger or driver's side drop??? # > A divorced case setup might work... have had a number of ideas # > on how to do this... with the J10 I have enough frame/driveshaft # > length to work with. # > # > # > Thanx Kevin, I needed this little bit of encouragement... still # > recovering from that allergy attack after the fourth and was almost # > starting to spin up a whole new popcorn cycle... was looking for dead WJs # > and XJs to do a conversion on... but funds are depleted and there's # > nothing to sell... no teaching gigs on the horizon... ;) I don't # > dare sell the tug, will need it as a reference if I do the SD33T swap, # > and will need a parts chaser/daily driver while going through the dawg. # > # > I really like the little tug, but without a/c it's going to be a # > real problem for me... I'm thinking that my allergies/respiratory # > sensitivities are only going to get worse as I get older... whatever # > I build better have a/c. Speaking of a/c, need to get my 300D in # > the shop to figure out where it's leaking... toss a can of 134 in # > it and it'll last for about two days... $8 / can, probably still cheaper # > than the shop repair... ;) # > # > BTW, there's a rusted Diesel Landcruiser for sale down in Oregon for $3k, 4 speed, # > passenger side drop. :( # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:45:55 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs Older and divorced. That C-6, while bulletproof, will throw away too much power to be used behind something like a 617. Getting it adapted could be even more interesting. On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:41:56AM -0700, john wrote: > what about the NP205 with the Ford C6 sitting in my shop? > > not a single soul has looked at this thing... driver's side drop. > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/c6-np205-1.jpg > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/c6-np205-2.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:34:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: OT: History Channel - 40th anniverary of the Moon shot - tonight... (7/20/2009) (fwd) FYI, ...for those of us old enough to remember this... ;) History Channel to feature Boeing-sponsored 'Moonshot' The History Channel will commemorate the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 moon landing today with the debut of the Boeing-sponsored program "Moonshot." This two-hour original drama will feature NASA footage and character reenactments to tell the story of America's mission to the moon. The program also will include Boeing's involvement in the construction of Saturn V -- the rocket that became the launch vehicle for the Apollo 11 mission. "Moonshot" will air today at 9 p.m. Eastern time and on Tuesday at 1 a.m. Eastern time (check local listings). ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:31:43 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs An adapter to AW4 would be better for economy and you could likely sell copies to others. > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:41:56 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: [db] Re: Diesels and ATs > > what about the NP205 with the Ford C6 sitting in my shop? > > not a single soul has looked at this thing... driver's side drop. > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/c6-np205-1.jpg > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/cl-items/c6-np205-2.jpg > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 20 Jul 2009, Kevin wrote: > > # I know it was an SM420, so unless it was a GM T-5 (they exist, friend has > # one in a 305 firebird), probably not. Looked through my notes, this was > # the guy: http://www.4x4labs.com/dieselconversions.shtml > # > # The roll your own option has some merits as well. I saw a picture a while > # back where a guy adapted off the back of the 722.3's three bolt rubber > # donut a four bolt flange that attached to a spline that was attached to > # a toyota pickup transfercase. Lots of people use pieces of the old pickup > # transfercase between their existing transmission and another transfercase > # for a crawl box, and the old ones (from the carbed trucks) were gear driven > # and quite stout. But its problem is the same as that diesel landcruiser you > # posted - it's passenger drop. To go the toyota route, you'd need to use a > # tacoma case, which is driver's drop. Or go divorced with a case from an old > # ford, which is likely the easiest route, but not likely to yield anything > # remotely close to a good low range (2:1 unless you want to drop another > # grand to make it 3:1). Don't think you're hoping to make a rock buggy out of it > # though. > # > # Another thing about that landcruiser - landcruiser splitcases are offset > # rear, so it's not just the front that is passenger drop. > # > # On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 10:51:00AM -0700, diesel john wrote: > # > I'm not opposed to a manual gearbox... Superdawg (83 J10) > # > has one and it has worked fine for me. I'm not commuting in > # > heavy freeway traffic any more (PTL!) and the only issue > # > with my lower back has been with XJs. A manual Mercedes, most cars, > # > FSJs and even a Ford Ranger were fine. > # > > # > If I could mate my T-5 to a 602 or 603 in Superdawg that would be awesome. > # > Mating an AW4 to a 602 or 603 would be even better... the AW4 has been > # > the best transmission I've ever seen in a Jeep, other than the 45RFE in > # > my '99 WJs. The AW4 can be modified to shift manually or without a full > # > computer setup too. > # > > # > With a small Diesel a manual is preferred... besides, downshifting > # > to slow down a Diesel is just so cool... jamming gears in a > # > Diesel helps reduce the boredom too... my wife doesn't > # > like me taking pictures while driving, so what else am I supposed > # > to do? Can't read a book... can't check email... > # > speed limits are just too dang slow here in the states. ;) > # > > # > I've priced out the 602/603 (2.5/3.0L TD - hydraulic lifters, higher > # > pressure pump, timing chain I-5/6) used and they're within budget... > # > that is when I sell the SD33T with all the extra pieces to cover the > # > cost... Still haven't completely eliminated Nick's 6AT Cummins(onan) > # > either. That has a chevy bellhousing and I could use a 700R4. > # > > # > I would even be willing to fabricate my own adapter, Mark > # > bought a combo mill/lathe... we're kind of setting up the carport for > # > machine work... have a friend out of work who might be able to help > # > me upgrade the wiring... will set it up so we can use the generator > # > to power the house as well. > # > > # > Anyway, if I keep the stock running gear behind a Benz Diesel it > # > makes the swap so much less troublesome... all I need to > # > deal with are mounts, front axle clearance and getting a > # > flywheel... or flex plate / torque converter... > # > > # > > # > Any one know of adapters for Mercedes Diesels? > # > > # > In my current pile of transmissions I have: > # > AW4 (jeep 4speed auto) - for sale > # > T-5 (currently mated to my 4.2) > # > T-176 was mated to a 4.2 - for sale > # > T-18 Scout - for sale (along with the Dana 300 pass drop) > # > TF727 with big block pattern (no torque converter) > # > > # > The other option of course is to adapt the output of the Mercedes > # > Automatic to a Jeep xfr case... I wonder if the Borg Warner xfr > # > cases used in the ML series are passenger or driver's side drop??? > # > A divorced case setup might work... have had a number of ideas > # > on how to do this... with the J10 I have enough frame/driveshaft > # > length to work with. > # > > # > > # > Thanx Kevin, I needed this little bit of encouragement... still > # > recovering from that allergy attack after the fourth and was almost > # > starting to spin up a whole new popcorn cycle... was looking for dead WJs > # > and XJs to do a conversion on... but funds are depleted and there's > # > nothing to sell... no teaching gigs on the horizon... ;) I don't > # > dare sell the tug, will need it as a reference if I do the SD33T swap, > # > and will need a parts chaser/daily driver while going through the dawg. > # > > # > I really like the little tug, but without a/c it's going to be a > # > real problem for me... I'm thinking that my allergies/respiratory > # > sensitivities are only going to get worse as I get older... whatever > # > I build better have a/c. Speaking of a/c, need to get my 300D in > # > the shop to figure out where it's leaking... toss a can of 134 in > # > it and it'll last for about two days... $8 / can, probably still cheaper > # > than the shop repair... ;) > # > > # > BTW, there's a rusted Diesel Landcruiser for sale down in Oregon for $3k, 4 speed, > # > passenger side drop. :( > # _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3381 **************************