From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jul 23 18:06:50 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, July 24 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3383 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] the reality check fsj: Diesel thought... toyota? fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... RE: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... RE: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Diesel 4x4 question... fsj: OT: tucker FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] the reality check thanx David, just talked to the guy in ID... the "running" SD33T he has over there has a new head gasket and hasn't been reassembled yet... he bought another project pile... who knows how long it's been sitting... considering the unknown state I'm going to get my injection pumps looked at; Then have this 727 gone through and put my that SD33T, 727 and np208 together, with a little bit of help from good friends like you. :) I need to sell the IH T-19(close ratio) and Dana 300, have an extra adapter and clutch setup if someone wanted to convert their tug to a 4 speed... I think the Dana 300 can be reclocked, or you could get the front axle off of a pre-80 SJ and go that route. I'll give more thought to using a Mercedes Diesel with an AT, a friend pointed out there is an adapater, but it mates to a Toyota xfr case... just pushes the problem further back... ;) I think using my SD33T will be fine if the IP and new injectors aren't out of line... need to call the guy I bought my tug from, he might be able to give me a good deal. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, diesel john wrote: # # > Finally sat down and figured out all the swap combinations and # > drive train options for my '83 J10 stepside and the '86 cj-10a. # > # > I looked at using a Mercedes Diesel (617/602 or 603) mated to an AW4 (XJ auto), # > or even my T-5... the SD33T... a Cummins(onan) 6AT, another 6.2... # > # > then I looked at the parts pile I have, and my checkbook... # > # > ...all I need to do is get ONE SD33T running, either buy fixing/swapping the IP in # > the one I have or buying one I know of... then mate it to my spare 727, of course # > having it gone through and mated to a Jeep np208... then drop the entire # > adventure into the J10... # > # > one swap... one time... :) # > (too bad the SD33T that I have didn't work. :( # > # > # > While it would be cool to put a turbo in the tug, or a 4.0/AW4, but # > there's no real point to it... I can't justify having two toys, and # > my '83 J10 stepside is a nicer riding rig with a/c, more room, more capability... # > I like the cj-10a, but while very cool, it just isn't as good as my J10. # > # > # > So, I considered putting a Mercedes 617/602 or 603 in the J10, but there # > are no adapters to automatics... then considering the costs of adapters # > or the effort involved in making my own, the SD33T/727 will work just fine, # > and makes sense... proven technology in the Scouts, giving 20/24 mpg in # > a vehicle with the same weight/tires/gears... # > # > # > I still need to get that flex plate, a torque converter, and change the # > output shaft in the 727 and have it shiftkitted... unless someone # > nearby has a complete 727 setup for the Jeep NP198 or 208... I have a good # > Aw4 to trade... or a Scout T19/Dana 300... or a C6/NP205... # # I'll see about getting the flex plate I have unbolted from the engine. # # David Lang # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:57:24 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Diesel thought... toyota? while checking on the cost of having my SD33T injection pump worked on, I stumbled upon a 1982 Toyota 4x4 Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10s, with a Douglas service box on it... was an electrician's truck, he bought it brand new... it now has 433,000 miles on it, but has a newly rebuilt injection pump, been meticously cared for since new, even garaged... 25 to 30 mpg. Even has variable wipers and a rear slider... no a/c though, but I would think that could be added... the '82 Toyotas had a nice look to them... any idea what it's worth? of course, NO rust... paint is good, white... the bench seat needs a cover he said... would probably install Jeep seats. ;) I'm thinking I'd sell the Douglas service box, it probably weighs 1,000 lbs... either put a flat bed on or a regular box... It's about 100 miles away, need to get over there to look, but the guy that told me about it is the Jeep/4x4/Diesel Service tech/nut that I bought my '86 cj-10a from... he knows the truck well, he rebuilt the injection pump and has serviced the truck... I doubt I'd see 25 to 30 mpg with my J10 even with the SD33T... if I got this thing I'd sell the tug and just keep my J10 as a collector vehicle, especially since it's getting the stock drive train reinstalled... only thing that won't be stock on it is the pop up sunroof and paint color, not a big deal... So, fire up the popcorn and let's hear what the collective has to say about a Toyota Diesel from 1982... my hunch is this will be a LOT less work and give me what I'm looking for... an economical daily driver Diesel 4x4... and I'll still have a Jeep and a Benz... ;) thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:45:41 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... question... is this truck worth $2,500? 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called Hi-lux elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a Douglass Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top It's white, and has always been garaged. It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 miles away... The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a '56 cj-5. The truck has been meticulously cared for by the original owner, an electrician... He's 72 and retired and very knowledgeable about Jeeps and Diesels. The only issue with the truck, according to the owner, is the driver's seat needs a cover... after 433,000 miles, yeah, I'd think so... :) The injection pump was gone through about a year ago by the Diesel shop I've been using for the last 20 years. One of the techs there told me about this, also the same guy I bought my '86 cj-10a from. Turns out the tech remembers me from the late 80's when I had my Diesel XJ... He wouldn't have suggested this truck if it were not a good one. This is the 4th generation of the Toyota pickup... solid axle (a friend in Australia says they're closed knuckle). The engine puts out a whopping 59 hp -at- 4,200 and 93 ft lbs -at- 2,800... governer limits the rpms to 4,900. (wow). An engineer friend well aware of my driving habits points out that this will be very underpowered, and that I'll be rowing the gearbox quite a bit in traffic... another friend says an AW4 will bolt up to this engine, so I could go with a 4 speed automatic, but that's more work. ;) The owner says it's never been to 70 mph... the 5th gear is probably in the 15% overdrive range... A Motor Trend article from that era praises the ride of the truck, it's looks, durability but points out that "you shift like crazy until you hit 30 mph"... My friend in Australia has many unkind words to say about this, but his comments include a lot of info on the "petrol" versions and tells me to run from any Toyota, but then again, he's a big Jeep fan. ;) It's quite clear from the basic specs that this thing will be slow... but I'm guessing it'll be faster than my tug. Haven't seen the 0 to 60 specs on it, but it has to be faster than 38 seconds. What's driving this popcorn adventure is the estimated costs of getting my SD33T injection pump rebuilt... could get very expensive... or not... However, based on proven performance in comparable weight 4x4 with the SD33, and the praises sung by my mechanic friend down under, this is really a beauty contest between the pain and suffering and expense of making my SD33T work with the 727/np208 in my '83 J10 stepside, or just buying a high mileage and proven Hi-lux. Other downsides for the toyota are the timing belt and no a/c. My J10 has a/c... and probably a roomier cab too... I only need a few more pieces to assemble the SD33T/TF727/NP208 for my '83 J10 Stepside... we ran into troubles with the IP, it's been sitting too long... so we're putting the truck back together with the 4.2/T5/NP208 for now... I've got three SD33T IPs to work with, if I could find one that's rebuilt to exchange for a reasonable price, along with some new injectors that would make the decision easier... I think I'd rather have my J10 stepside than a Toyota... The wheelbase and overall length of the Hi-Lux and the J10 are interestingly close... the Hi-Lux is 110.6 in/ overall 186.2 in, while the J10 is 118.8 and 194.0 so, QUESTION - Toyota... should I run there or away? BUY a ready made 25-30 mpg 4x4 Diesel with a nice service box, or BUILD a nice J10 to get 20/24 mpg(maybe)? Buy or Build? I'm listening... (appreciate the input, really... it does help.) john BTW, the '86 CJ-10A is doing fine, a solid 18 mpg in town... will sell when the J10 is done, or if I get the Hi-lux... http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/0_best-of-CJ-10A.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:49:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... if anyone knows of any refurbed IH/Scout/Nissan SD33T injection pumps and injectors let me know... I just have trouble picturing me in a Toyota... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, diesel john wrote: # question... is this truck worth $2,500? # # 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called Hi-lux # elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a Douglass # Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). # http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top # It's white, and has always been garaged. # It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. # # The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 miles away... # The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also # has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a '56 cj-5. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:53:25 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... The big issues w toyotas is $$. When I looked at a landcruiser, that wa$ mentioned most of the time. Part$ are not cheap, not available in junkyards, and in the case of the diesel, parts will be even scarcer than for the nissan. Michel > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:49:54 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... > > if anyone knows of any refurbed IH/Scout/Nissan SD33T injection pumps and injectors > let me know... I just have trouble picturing me in a Toyota... ;) > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, diesel john wrote: > > # question... is this truck worth $2,500? > # > # 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called Hi-lux > # elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a Douglass > # Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). > # http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top > # It's white, and has always been garaged. > # It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. > # > # The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 miles away... > # The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also > # has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a '56 cj-5. _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... yes, that's true... same story I'm getting from Australia too... nissan seems to do a better job with the Diesel. the toyota uses a rubber band, the nissan a chain. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # The big issues w toyotas is $$. When I looked at a landcruiser, that wa$ # mentioned most of the time. Part$ are not cheap, not available in junkyards, # and in the case of the diesel, parts will be even scarcer than for the # nissan. # # Michel # # > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:49:54 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... # > # > if anyone knows of any refurbed IH/Scout/Nissan SD33T injection pumps and # injectors # > let me know... I just have trouble picturing me in a Toyota... ;) # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, diesel john wrote: # > # > # question... is this truck worth $2,500? # > # # > # 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called # Hi-lux # > # elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a # Douglass # > # Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). # > # http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top # > # It's white, and has always been garaged. # > # It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. # > # # > # The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 # miles away... # > # The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also # > # has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a # '56 cj-5. # # _________________________________________________________________ # NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. # http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:51:39 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Re: [CJ-10List] Diesel 4x4 question... good advice, talked to my friend up here, he's going to email pictures today if possible, he says it's a really nice rig... slow, but nice... slow is ok if it does 25 mpg... traffic is miserable anyway and I find myself moving around slower traffic in the tug... not quite as briskly as with my WJ or 300D though. :) the tech at the diesel shop gave points to the sd33t as a heavier duty motor, especially since it uses a timing chain instead of a rubber band... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # my expectation is that the toyota will be slower than the tug # # it's engine produces about 60% of the power of the tug's engine, and I # suspect that the truck weighs more than 60% of what the tug weighs. # # however, the engine in the toyota could be in better shape (especially if # the injector pump was recently overhauled), so you may be comparing a # healthy 59HP engine with a tired 101HP engine producing 60hp or something # like that. # # it's 0-60 time could be as bad as the tug, or worse, it may not get to 60, # or it may get to 50 in 10 seconds and take 30 seconds to get that last 10 # mph. # # since it's only 100 miles from you, drive out there and try it. if you # like it, it's worth the money, if you don't it's not. (it's not like you # are buying this as an investment, you are buying it to drive) # # David Lang # # # # # # On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, diesel # john wrote: # # > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:45:41 -0700 (PDT) # > From: diesel john # > Reply-To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com # > To: undisclosed-recipients: ; # > Subject: [CJ-10List] Diesel 4x4 question... # > # > question... is this truck worth $2,500? # > # > 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called Hi-lux # > elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a Douglass # > Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). # > http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top # > It's white, and has always been garaged. # > It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. # > # > The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 miles away... # > The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also # > has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a '56 cj-5. # > # > The truck has been meticulously cared for by the original owner, an electrician... # > He's 72 and retired and very knowledgeable about Jeeps and Diesels. # > # > The only issue with the truck, according to the owner, is the driver's seat needs # > a cover... after 433,000 miles, yeah, I'd think so... :) # > # > The injection pump was gone through about a year ago by # > the Diesel shop I've been using for the last 20 years. One of the # > techs there told me about this, also the same guy I bought my '86 cj-10a from. # > Turns out the tech remembers me from the late 80's when I had my Diesel XJ... # > He wouldn't have suggested this truck if it were not a good one. # > # > This is the 4th generation of the Toyota pickup... solid axle (a friend in # > Australia says they're closed knuckle). The engine puts out a whopping # > 59 hp -at- 4,200 and 93 ft lbs -at- 2,800... governer limits the rpms to 4,900. (wow). # > An engineer friend well aware of my driving habits points out that this will # > be very underpowered, and that I'll be rowing the gearbox quite a bit in traffic... # > another friend says an AW4 will bolt up to this engine, so I could go with # > a 4 speed automatic, but that's more work. ;) # > # > The owner says it's never been to 70 mph... the 5th gear is probably in the 15% # > overdrive range... A Motor Trend article from that era praises the ride of the # > truck, it's looks, durability but points out that "you shift like crazy until # > you hit 30 mph"... # > # > My friend in Australia has many unkind words to say about this, but his comments # > include a lot of info on the "petrol" versions and tells me to run from any Toyota, # > but then again, he's a big Jeep fan. ;) # > # > It's quite clear from the basic specs that this thing will be slow... but I'm guessing # > it'll be faster than my tug. Haven't seen the 0 to 60 specs on it, but it has # > to be faster than 38 seconds. # > # > What's driving this popcorn adventure is the estimated costs of getting my SD33T injection # > pump rebuilt... could get very expensive... or not... However, based on proven performance in # > comparable weight 4x4 with the SD33, and the praises sung by my mechanic friend down under, # > this is really a beauty contest between the pain and suffering and expense of making # > my SD33T work with the 727/np208 in my '83 J10 stepside, or just buying a high mileage # > and proven Hi-lux. Other downsides for the toyota are the timing belt and no a/c. My # > J10 has a/c... and probably a roomier cab too... I only need a few more pieces to assemble # > the SD33T/TF727/NP208 for my '83 J10 Stepside... we ran into troubles with the IP, it's # > been sitting too long... so we're putting the truck back together with the 4.2/T5/NP208 for # > now... I've got three SD33T IPs to work with, if I could find one that's rebuilt to # > exchange for a reasonable price, along with some new injectors that would make the decision # > easier... I think I'd rather have my J10 stepside than a Toyota... # > # > The wheelbase and overall length of the Hi-Lux and the J10 are interestingly close... # > the Hi-Lux is 110.6 in/ overall 186.2 in, while the J10 is 118.8 and 194.0 # > # > so, QUESTION - Toyota... should I run there or away? # > # > BUY a ready made 25-30 mpg 4x4 Diesel with a nice service box, # > or BUILD a nice J10 to get 20/24 mpg(maybe)? # > # > Buy or Build? # > # > I'm listening... (appreciate the input, really... it does help.) # > # > john # > # > BTW, the '86 CJ-10A is doing fine, a solid 18 mpg in town... # > will sell when the J10 is done, or if I get the Hi-lux... # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/0_best-of-CJ-10A.html # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: OT: tucker - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: lasik eyes Ever see a "1948 TUCKER" up close? http://www.laubly.com/1948tucker.htm ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3383 **************************