From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jul 24 16:23:28 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, July 24 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3384 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Diesel 4x4 question... Re: fsj: Re: Diesel 4x4 question... fsj: OT, I'm sure there is a story here... Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... fsj: Toyota Diesel info fsj: superdawg project in full swing! Re: fsj: Toyota Diesel info Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:06:10 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: Diesel 4x4 question... KILLER RIDE!!!! one of my employees picked up that very same truck (actually, an '85) a few years back for a paltry $100 bones!!!! the truck was in very poor shape, but the motor ran. (btw, are you sure about the motor being a 2.2? his is a 2LT - a 2litre turbo diesel) it's definitely not a torque or power monster. kinda like the way the 22RE is a squirrel on a wheel. but they run. and run. and run. aaaand run. he has since built it into a trail rig (and justly so. it's quite at home on the trail.) but, as Michael said, parts are a bit expensive. not necesarily the typical one-part-fits-all-pickups stuffs, but the motor specific stuff is rather expensive and VERY hard to find. we tried and got some parts from Australia (valvetrain stuffs) and the rest came from South Africa (pistons and overhaul kit). got a rebuilt turbo from a cat in Cali, so that wasn't so bad. heck, get it just for the unique factor. it rules! but, $2500 sounds a bit stiff. even if it is in excellent shape. $2k is getting closer, but still a stretch. but, i am the proverbial CB!!! i say go for it! oh, and if you really want to delve into things, join up with toyotadieselmadness.com Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "diesel john" To: Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:45 AM Subject: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... > question... is this truck worth $2,500? > > 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called Hi-lux > elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a Douglass > Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). > http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top > It's white, and has always been garaged. > It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. > > The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 miles away... > The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also > has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a '56 cj-5. > > The truck has been meticulously cared for by the original owner, an electrician... > He's 72 and retired and very knowledgeable about Jeeps and Diesels. > > The only issue with the truck, according to the owner, is the driver's seat needs > a cover... after 433,000 miles, yeah, I'd think so... :) > > The injection pump was gone through about a year ago by > the Diesel shop I've been using for the last 20 years. One of the > techs there told me about this, also the same guy I bought my '86 cj-10a from. > Turns out the tech remembers me from the late 80's when I had my Diesel XJ... > He wouldn't have suggested this truck if it were not a good one. > > This is the 4th generation of the Toyota pickup... solid axle (a friend in > Australia says they're closed knuckle). The engine puts out a whopping > 59 hp -at- 4,200 and 93 ft lbs -at- 2,800... governer limits the rpms to 4,900. (wow). > An engineer friend well aware of my driving habits points out that this will > be very underpowered, and that I'll be rowing the gearbox quite a bit in traffic... > another friend says an AW4 will bolt up to this engine, so I could go with > a 4 speed automatic, but that's more work. ;) > > The owner says it's never been to 70 mph... the 5th gear is probably in the 15% > overdrive range... A Motor Trend article from that era praises the ride of the > truck, it's looks, durability but points out that "you shift like crazy until > you hit 30 mph"... > > My friend in Australia has many unkind words to say about this, but his comments > include a lot of info on the "petrol" versions and tells me to run from any Toyota, > but then again, he's a big Jeep fan. ;) > > It's quite clear from the basic specs that this thing will be slow... but I'm guessing > it'll be faster than my tug. Haven't seen the 0 to 60 specs on it, but it has > to be faster than 38 seconds. > > What's driving this popcorn adventure is the estimated costs of getting my SD33T injection > pump rebuilt... could get very expensive... or not... However, based on proven performance in > comparable weight 4x4 with the SD33, and the praises sung by my mechanic friend down under, > this is really a beauty contest between the pain and suffering and expense of making > my SD33T work with the 727/np208 in my '83 J10 stepside, or just buying a high mileage > and proven Hi-lux. Other downsides for the toyota are the timing belt and no a/c. My > J10 has a/c... and probably a roomier cab too... I only need a few more pieces to assemble > the SD33T/TF727/NP208 for my '83 J10 Stepside... we ran into troubles with the IP, it's > been sitting too long... so we're putting the truck back together with the 4.2/T5/NP208 for > now... I've got three SD33T IPs to work with, if I could find one that's rebuilt to > exchange for a reasonable price, along with some new injectors that would make the decision > easier... I think I'd rather have my J10 stepside than a Toyota... > > The wheelbase and overall length of the Hi-Lux and the J10 are interestingly close... > the Hi-Lux is 110.6 in/ overall 186.2 in, while the J10 is 118.8 and 194.0 > > so, QUESTION - Toyota... should I run there or away? > > BUY a ready made 25-30 mpg 4x4 Diesel with a nice service box, > or BUILD a nice J10 to get 20/24 mpg(maybe)? > > Buy or Build? > > I'm listening... (appreciate the input, really... it does help.) > > john > > BTW, the '86 CJ-10A is doing fine, a solid 18 mpg in town... > will sell when the J10 is done, or if I get the Hi-lux... > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/0_best-of-CJ-10A.html > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Diesel 4x4 question... 2 liter naturally aspirated, however, it is a 1984, not 82. waiting for pictures... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 23 Jul 2009, Neal Hoover wrote: # KILLER RIDE!!!! # one of my employees picked up that very same truck (actually, an '85) a few # years back for a paltry $100 bones!!!! the truck was in very poor shape, # but the motor ran. # (btw, are you sure about the motor being a 2.2? his is a 2LT - a 2litre # turbo diesel) # it's definitely not a torque or power monster. kinda like the way the 22RE # is a squirrel on a wheel. # but they run. # and run. # and run. # aaaand run. # # he has since built it into a trail rig (and justly so. it's quite at home # on the trail.) # but, as Michael said, parts are a bit expensive. not necesarily the typical # one-part-fits-all-pickups stuffs, but the motor specific stuff is rather # expensive and VERY hard to find. we tried and got some parts from Australia # (valvetrain stuffs) and the rest came from South Africa (pistons and # overhaul kit). # got a rebuilt turbo from a cat in Cali, so that wasn't so bad. # # heck, get it just for the unique factor. # it rules! # # but, $2500 sounds a bit stiff. even if it is in excellent shape. $2k is # getting closer, but still a stretch. # but, i am the proverbial CB!!! # # i say go for it! # # oh, and if you really want to delve into things, join up with # toyotadieselmadness.com # # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "diesel john" # To: # Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 11:45 AM # Subject: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... # # # > question... is this truck worth $2,500? # > # > 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called Hi-lux # > elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new with a # Douglass # > Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). # > http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top # > It's white, and has always been garaged. # > It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. # > # > The Hi-Lux has 433,000 miles... I haven't seen it yet, it's about 100 # miles away... # > The owner just bought a newer truck to tow behind his motorhome and also # > has a large Duramax truck... he's also selling a '50 VJ (jeepster) and a # '56 cj-5. # > # > The truck has been meticulously cared for by the original owner, an # electrician... # > He's 72 and retired and very knowledgeable about Jeeps and Diesels. # > # > The only issue with the truck, according to the owner, is the driver's # seat needs # > a cover... after 433,000 miles, yeah, I'd think so... :) # > # > The injection pump was gone through about a year ago by # > the Diesel shop I've been using for the last 20 years. One of the # > techs there told me about this, also the same guy I bought my '86 cj-10a # from. # > Turns out the tech remembers me from the late 80's when I had my Diesel # XJ... # > He wouldn't have suggested this truck if it were not a good one. # > # > This is the 4th generation of the Toyota pickup... solid axle (a friend in # > Australia says they're closed knuckle). The engine puts out a whopping # > 59 hp -at- 4,200 and 93 ft lbs -at- 2,800... governer limits the rpms to 4,900. # (wow). # > An engineer friend well aware of my driving habits points out that this # will # > be very underpowered, and that I'll be rowing the gearbox quite a bit in # traffic... # > another friend says an AW4 will bolt up to this engine, so I could go with # > a 4 speed automatic, but that's more work. ;) # > # > The owner says it's never been to 70 mph... the 5th gear is probably in # the 15% # > overdrive range... A Motor Trend article from that era praises the ride # of the # > truck, it's looks, durability but points out that "you shift like crazy # until # > you hit 30 mph"... # > # > My friend in Australia has many unkind words to say about this, but his # comments # > include a lot of info on the "petrol" versions and tells me to run from # any Toyota, # > but then again, he's a big Jeep fan. ;) # > # > It's quite clear from the basic specs that this thing will be slow... but # I'm guessing # > it'll be faster than my tug. Haven't seen the 0 to 60 specs on it, but it # has # > to be faster than 38 seconds. # > # > What's driving this popcorn adventure is the estimated costs of getting my # SD33T injection # > pump rebuilt... could get very expensive... or not... However, based on # proven performance in # > comparable weight 4x4 with the SD33, and the praises sung by my mechanic # friend down under, # > this is really a beauty contest between the pain and suffering and expense # of making # > my SD33T work with the 727/np208 in my '83 J10 stepside, or just buying a # high mileage # > and proven Hi-lux. Other downsides for the toyota are the timing belt and # no a/c. My # > J10 has a/c... and probably a roomier cab too... I only need a few more # pieces to assemble # > the SD33T/TF727/NP208 for my '83 J10 Stepside... we ran into troubles with # the IP, it's # > been sitting too long... so we're putting the truck back together with the # 4.2/T5/NP208 for # > now... I've got three SD33T IPs to work with, if I could find one that's # rebuilt to # > exchange for a reasonable price, along with some new injectors that would # make the decision # > easier... I think I'd rather have my J10 stepside than a Toyota... # > # > The wheelbase and overall length of the Hi-Lux and the J10 are # interestingly close... # > the Hi-Lux is 110.6 in/ overall 186.2 in, while the J10 is 118.8 and # 194.0 # > # > so, QUESTION - Toyota... should I run there or away? # > # > BUY a ready made 25-30 mpg 4x4 Diesel with a nice service box, # > or BUILD a nice J10 to get 20/24 mpg(maybe)? # > # > Buy or Build? # > # > I'm listening... (appreciate the input, really... it does help.) # > # > john # > # > BTW, the '86 CJ-10A is doing fine, a solid 18 mpg in town... # > will sell when the J10 is done, or if I get the Hi-lux... # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/0_best-of-CJ-10A.html # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:43:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: OT, I'm sure there is a story here... someone sent this picture to me... I'm sure there's a story to go with it... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/ATT00636.jpg ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:38:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Diana Eichert Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... John In 1983 I bought a brand new 2wd Toyota Diesel Pickup 'cause I had a side business delivering stuff. It was a gutless wonder, so gutless I traded it back in 2 weeks later for a gas 4wd Toyota pickup. FWIW, the gas 4wd was pretty gutless, can't even imagine how bad it would be with the diesel. I filled it up twice in those two weeks and remember it getting ~30 mpg, in town driving. once up on time diesel john pondered: > question... is this truck worth $2,500? > > 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called > Hi-lux elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new > with a Douglass Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). > http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top > It's white, and has always been garaged. > It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 07:55:50 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Toyota Diesel info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_L_engine http://www.everdrive.com/partdetails.aspx?sku=5000193 _________________________________________________________________ Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_ML OGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:41:23 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: superdawg project in full swing! these pictures just in from Centralia: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/superdawg-2009/ALL.html superdawg has been found, rolled out, uncovered, and is back in work... The frame is being sandblasted, the bed liner originally sprayed on the frame a few years ago didn't hold up... will be reshot with epoxy. Curtis has the body prepped for paint, starts spraying next week, guess he's robbing a train this weekend... (annual event here in Western Washington involving historic steam trains... maybe he'll share some of those pictures. ;) The first pictures show the SD33T on the pallet, unable to make it work, the Injection Pump was left stored out in the open in Idaho for too long, have two more and will eventually get it working... engine turns over and the turbo is ok... will drag the pallet back up to my shop and assemble it and fire it before pulling the 4.2. Not sure how long before I do that... daughter's wedding next month... just need a few more pieces to put the SD33T/TF727 and NP208 together to eventually replace the 4.2/T-5/NP208 that will be going into superdawg ('83 J10 Stepside). You can also see the '80 J10 that provided the donor engine and axles. And all the XJ parts, and a few Mercedes parts... the bed is filled with years worth of gathering... have brought some of the XJ parts back home. :) We robbed superdawg's model 20 rear axle for the hydraulic dump trailer so we could setup surge disk brakes... working well... the added benefit to doing that is the fact that superdawg went from 3.31 gears to 3.54s. Will help in traffic without hurting freeway mileage. And, it works out as the same gearing setup as the '80 Scout's with the SD33T, with the J10 being slightly lighter than the Scout, so even better economy is expected. anyway, progress... real progress... getting back to basics restarted the project... over the last 8 years curtis and I kept brainstorming and coming up with wilder and wilder ideas on what to do with the dawg... those plans have included extending the cab and all kinds of wild ideas that were so far beyond our tools, time, and budget that things kind of stagnated, and of course you know how I never ever change my mind... ;) Not sure when I'll get rid of the '86 cj-10a... I am tempted to use the TF727/NP208 out of it and drop something else in it, like a 4.0/AW4 out of an XJ. Of course there is always the temptation to figure out how to mate a Mercedes 602/603 or 617 to my T-5 in J10... they are significantly lighter than the SD33T and a lot smoother and more powerful... How hard can it be to make the adapter and figure out a clutch setup? Of course I'd much prefer using an AW4 but that just makes the whole swap more complex... which brings me back to just making the proven SD33T/TF727/NP208 scenario work... butter for that popcorn? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:05:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Toyota Diesel info any idea of price? would that mate to my aw4? ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_L_engine # # http://www.everdrive.com/partdetails.aspx?sku=5000193 # # _________________________________________________________________ # Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. # http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_ML # OGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... thanx... still waiting for pictures... but, if I test drive it I'll do a 0 to 60 test to compare with my tug, the tug after dialing it in does it in 38 seconds now... :) turns out this toyota is an '84, not that it changes the engine or anything. prevailing wisdom is that the Nissan SD33T is a better engine, and having my J10 is more to my liking than a toyota... like jimmy nylund told me: a bad J10 is better than a good (?) toyota. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Diana Eichert wrote: # # John # # In 1983 I bought a brand new 2wd Toyota Diesel Pickup 'cause I # had a side business delivering stuff. It was a gutless wonder, # so gutless I traded it back in 2 weeks later for a gas 4wd # Toyota pickup. FWIW, the gas 4wd was pretty gutless, can't even # imagine how bad it would be with the diesel. # # I filled it up twice in those two weeks and remember it getting # ~30 mpg, in town driving. # # # # once up on time diesel john pondered: # # > question... is this truck worth $2,500? # > # > 1982 Toyota 4x4, 2.2L Diesel, 5 speed, 4.10:1 gears, pickup (called # > Hi-lux elsewhere in the world), 7' bed was replaced when purchased new # > with a Douglass Closed Top Service box (lower profile - compact model). # > http://www.douglasstruckbodies.com/iview/?group=53#top # > It's white, and has always been garaged. # > It's never been out of the northwest so rust isn't even a question. # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:35:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Diana Eichert Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... I'm pretty sure Toyota changed the sheet metal and interior in '84. If I remember correctly 84 was the first year they offered an extended cab on the pick it ups. I remember wanting one, 'cause my 6'3" frame didn't fit very well in the 83's I had. I can't remember if they changed any of the mechanicals. You're right the SD33/SD33T is definitely a more robust engine, then again it's target market was different than the little diesels Toy put in their trucks. Uh, no matter what I said about gutless, it should do better than the tug. I keep buying more popcorm waiting for you to put the SD33T in the tug. diana On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, john wrote: > thanx... > > still waiting for pictures... but, > if I test drive it I'll do a 0 to 60 test to compare with my tug, > the tug after dialing it in does it in 38 seconds now... :) > > turns out this toyota is an '84, not that it changes the engine or anything. > > prevailing wisdom is that the Nissan SD33T is a better engine, and having > my J10 is more to my liking than a toyota... > > like jimmy nylund told me: a bad J10 is better than a good (?) toyota. ;) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:23:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Diesel 4x4 question... 6'3"! in a toyota? the list mom brian is about that tall too... it's kind of fun watching my tall friends get into some of my vehicles... being a runt at 5'7" has a lot of advantages... love watching you folks duck for doorways... :) I looked at the specs on the engine, same for '82 as for '84. I don't think it's the extended cab though... the oldtimer is having 2nd thoughts about selling, called my friend and asked where the pictures were and he said the guy hadn't taken any yet and wasn't sure he wanted to sell... I can live with slow and the high miles, but my curiousity is really stirred up on this one... not enough to drive 100 miles to see it though... ;) I'll continue gathering bits and pieces for my SD33T, or figure out how to slip a Mercedes Diesel in front of my T-5.... ;) that would make the conversion simple... anything else might require a lot of changes. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Diana Eichert wrote: # I'm pretty sure Toyota changed the sheet metal and interior in '84. # If I remember correctly 84 was the first year they offered an # extended cab on the pick it ups. I remember wanting one, 'cause my # 6'3" frame didn't fit very well in the 83's I had. # # I can't remember if they changed any of the mechanicals. You're # right the SD33/SD33T is definitely a more robust engine, then # again it's target market was different than the little diesels # Toy put in their trucks. # # Uh, no matter what I said about gutless, it should do better than # the tug. I keep buying more popcorm waiting for you to put the # SD33T in the tug. # # diana # # # On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, john wrote: # # > thanx... # > # > still waiting for pictures... but, # > if I test drive it I'll do a 0 to 60 test to compare with my tug, # > the tug after dialing it in does it in 38 seconds now... :) # > # > turns out this toyota is an '84, not that it changes the engine or # > anything. # > # > prevailing wisdom is that the Nissan SD33T is a better engine, and having # > my J10 is more to my liking than a toyota... # > # > like jimmy nylund told me: a bad J10 is better than a good (?) toyota. ;) # > # > john # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3384 **************************