From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jul 31 14:06:17 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, July 31 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3391 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? fsj: twin stick D20/D300 RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? Re: fsj: doors? fsj: likely legally doorless in Snohomish RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed and rust- FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:13:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? it varies, some tailgates have it, but most don't. I was looking for Jeep lettering for my tailgate... What's interesting is that the tailgate I picked up for my '86 cj-10a that came off of a '48 cj-2a has JEEP on it, not Willys... the W seen on the old pickups may have been decals... I can look through my pictures and brochures... I think Willys Overland in Toleda may have complete beds, and I've got the newer fiberglass fenders... hmmm, I should call bob or jay and see if they have the old Willys fenders. :) I think the door issue that jim raised might apply to vehicles getting licensed... my neighbor has one of those little japanese trucks and it's not street legal because it can't meet safety specs... ...at the same time I drove my '48 cj-2a all over Everett and saw plenty of cops... no doors, no top... yesterday drove my '86 cj-10a all over snohomish county and king county chasing WVO and saw no less than 6 units, drove parallel to a couple for miles, they could not have not noticed no doors, I had my leg hanging out the door and resting on the running board. :) I also remember a used car guy trying to sell a '92 YJ, he had to get it inspected as it was a theft recovery vehicle and he was grumbling because he had to buy doors to get it licensed... same kind of theme on the BC board... older jeeps may be exempt, so it may be some kind of federal safety standard... but state laws appear to be all over the map. I guess there are always half doors... or better, take mine off and put 'em in the bed, if I get stopped I'll just ask for the specific law, politely of course, while putting my doors back on... the temps dropped so much last night my wife was cold, had to wrap her up in a blanket for the last 7 miles home... :) going through the rcw's last night I did see one law pertaining to doors and door latches... a really nit-picking cop might try to use it... but the fact that my jeep came from the factory with a removable top and doors could be an argument... I really don't want to become part of case law though. :) might be cheaper to add A/C to the tug... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Joe wrote: # That's good to know. I've been looking for a bed for my '49 Willys. In # fact I've been looking at buying whole trucks just for the bed. # # They don't have the big "W" on them, do they? # # # Joe Hughes # Everett, WA # 22 Willys-Overland Touring # 49 Willys pickup, Cummins 3.9L 4bt on a 74 Cherokee chassis # 50 Willys Wagon, Buick 231 V6 (Wife's) # 64 Mercedes S220 Sedan (For Sale) # 88 Honda CBR-600 # 94 BMW 540i e34 6-spd 4.0L V8 # 95 Dodge 2500 6bt, 47RH # 00 JGC Ltd. 4.7L # # Joe H. # # > -----Original Message----- # > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # > john # > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:27 PM # > To: Tesar Landon-R16884 # > Cc: local Jeep list # > Subject: Re: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # > # > yes. # > # > even my stepside bed is the same as the Willys pickups... # > # > it's the long wheel base version... even has the original tornado # > engine, cool. # > my '65 stepside was the shorter version of that bed... # > # > excellent price... # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # > # > # Hey, can someone take a look and tell me if the bed looks correct on # > # this '63 Gladiator? # > # Looks like it came from a Willys pickup, there may be a reason for # > that # > # :) # > # http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/1292690398.html # > # # > # - Landon # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Windows Live^Y Hotmail.: Search, add, and share the web^Rs latest sports # videos. # Check it out. # http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_W # L # _QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:33:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? heritage? it was way simpler to bend some sheet metal into a bed and slap hunks of sheet metal bent like basement window wells over the tire than to make something with complete body work... look at the older pickups from the 30's, same thing... if you look carefully there aren't really any "steps" on that thing... the steps on the fiberglass units aren't something one can really stand on... the early jeeps were referred to as "townsides" and "fleetsides", I think... will check later... (if I'm wrong I'll post a correction) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # Wow, I had no idea that stepside bed had such a heritage. # # - Landon # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # Bob Brooks # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:39 PM # To: Tesar Landon-R16884; 'john' # Cc: 'local Jeep list'; Bob Brooks # Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # # Boy I wish that was out here on the right coast!! # # Bob # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # Tesar # Landon-R16884 # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:25 PM # To: john # Cc: local Jeep list # Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # # I must go look. God is smiling on me. # # - L # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # john # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:27 PM # To: Tesar Landon-R16884 # Cc: local Jeep list # Subject: Re: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # # yes. # # even my stepside bed is the same as the Willys pickups... # # it's the long wheel base version... even has the original tornado # engine, cool. # my '65 stepside was the shorter version of that bed... # # excellent price... # # john # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # # # Hey, can someone take a look and tell me if the bed looks correct on # # this '63 Gladiator? # # Looks like it came from a Willys pickup, there may be a reason for # that # # :) # # http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/1292690398.html # # # # - Landon # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:44:19 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: twin stick D20/D300 interesting question... The twin stick kit we used on my '77 Cherokee was $99 and did the mod described below for the Dana 300 so we had front wheel drive low... noticed the prices have more than doubled in 10 years. ;) Novak says: http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/dana_20_twin_stix.htm Shifting Positions All positions are available, except one: there is no front-only 2wd Low, due to the interlocks. The Twin-Stick 20 utilizes the factory interlocks making it impossible to damage the transfer case by cross-shifting it. Front-only 2wd Low would rarely, if ever, actually be needed and will most likely not be missed at all. (HA, yet another reason for me not to like novak. ;) and since I'm not a big fan of novak after my 6.2 conversion setup, I searched further and found: http://www.neow.org/twinstick2.html GETTING FANCY WITH INTERLOCKS Now that you have your shifters hooked up you will notice that you are unable to shift the front axle (left shifter) out of neutral until the rear axle (right shifter) is in gear. This is due to the interlock pins, which allow a single stick shifter to function properly. However, when you twin stick your .case, they also prevent you from using other gear combinations. By removing the pins, you will gain front wheel drive, as well as rear-wheel low, two very useful off-road gear selections. On the flip side, if you simply remove the pins, it becomes possible to shift one axle into high, and the other into low. This will cause terrible binding and stress on the front and rear drive train, and if driven more than a few feet, or a few miles per hour in a high/low configuration, it could very easily damage axles, universal joints, drive shafts, or even the transfer case itself. There is one solution that gets the best of both worlds: modifying the shift rails by grinding them, then re-inserting the interlock pins. Since this is a complicated operation that I have not performed myself (yet), you will have to figure this out for yourself. There was a previous write up in Peterson.s 4 Wheel and Off road magazine that explained a nearly identical operation on an NP205 Transfer case. It would be a valuable reference in tacking such a project. Alternatively, you could remove the shifter rails and pins as described below, and imagine how they interact, and how you.d have to re-grind the shift rail detents to allow it to function properly. As is though, I will tell you how to simply remove the pins. You just have to be careful when you shift so as to avoid a high/low situation, that.s all. For this process, you are going to need a set of allen wrenches with the ball-socket on one end. Otherwise, the only way to remove the shift rails is to completely disassemble the entire .case, as the set screw that hold the shift forks to the shift rails are behind the reduction gears and require an .angle. on the wrench. This will be evident once the inspection plate has been removed, and the shift rails are visible. If you don.t have this type of allen wrench, I would recommend either using a shop manual for disassembly (as there are several small parts and bearings) or take it to a transmission shop. ALSO found a twin stick setup for the D300, didn't read the pdf manual... http://advanceadapters.com/product/2524/403300.html hope this helps... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, david-at-lang.hm wrote: # On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, diesel john wrote: # # > have done the twin stick on a Dana 20 before, $99... wasn't # > all that terribly long ago, was it? within the last 10 years. ;) # # did the twin-stick on the D20 let you engage either axle, or just seperate # the low range from engaging the front axle? (just a curiosity question) # # David Lang # # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:50:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? why is that? even if you parked that thing and it never saw a salted road it will rust out... just sitting there. I can leave bare metal sitting out for years and it never rusts through here... we have relatively high humidity during the winter with all our mizzle... summers are dry... wonder if it's a function of heat and humidity... rarely is it humid and warm here... when the clouds roll back it gets dry. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Bob Brooks wrote: # John; # # Very true, the only rust free vehicles here in NY were imported from dryer # climates, and once they get here, they rust pretty quick!! # # Bob # # -----Original Message----- # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:53 PM # To: Bob Brooks # Cc: 'Tesar Landon-R16884'; 'local Jeep list'; Bob Brooks # Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # # if it were it wouldn't be rust free... :) # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Bob Brooks wrote: # # # Boy I wish that was out here on the right coast!! # # # # Bob # # # # -----Original Message----- # # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # Tesar # # Landon-R16884 # # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:25 PM # # To: john # # Cc: local Jeep list # # Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # # # # I must go look. God is smiling on me. # # # # - L # # # # -----Original Message----- # # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of # # john # # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:27 PM # # To: Tesar Landon-R16884 # # Cc: local Jeep list # # Subject: Re: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? # # # # yes. # # # # even my stepside bed is the same as the Willys pickups... # # # # it's the long wheel base version... even has the original tornado # # engine, cool. # # my '65 stepside was the shorter version of that bed... # # # # excellent price... # # # # john # # # # # # # # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # # # # On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # # # # # Hey, can someone take a look and tell me if the bed looks correct on # # # this '63 Gladiator? # # # Looks like it came from a Willys pickup, there may be a reason for # # that # # # :) # # # http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/1292690398.html # # # # # # - Landon # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:15:24 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: doors? have searched all of the RCWs... you got the RCW cited? or at least a news article about it? spent way too much time just now reading RCWs. ;) john Jim Blair wrote: > Taking a chance? Snohomish cops are busting people for no doors as of > June 1 '09 when the Supreme court upheld the "doors required" law. > > > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:03:46 -0700 > > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > > To: > > Subject: fsj: doors? > > > > where we're going, we don't need doors... > > > > > > ...went on a WVO* run, sans doors... left the house around 6pm, only > 85 deg or so, > > cooled down to less than 75 by the time we got back... > > > > > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1986-CJ10A/2009_Jul_30_wvo-run-NO-DOORS/ > > > > > > * - WVO = waste veggie oil... see the buckets and plastic containers > > in the back? there's about 40 gallons or so of used cooking oil picked > > up from several resturaunts in the area... it's converted to > bioDiesel and > > run in the '86 cj-10a and the '91 300D... thought about using the '99 WJ > > to pick this up and decided driving with no doors to stay cool made more > > sense than messing up the back of the WJ or the trunk of the benz. :) > > > > the plan is to get my '83 J10 stepside converted to Diesel and make > these > > runs for WVO with a/c... :) actually thinking about putting a tank > in the > > back with a filter setup and pour it straight in and heat it... but > that's > > a long term dream... ;) > > > > john > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > Windows Live^Y Hotmail.: Search, add, and share the web^Rs latest sports > videos. Check it out. > - -- ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://freegift.com ** http://wagoneers.com ** - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:03:37 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: likely legally doorless in Snohomish heard that driving without doors on a jeep is some how illegal... that I drove by no less than six state and local officials last night without any problems I was somewhat dubious about this issue.... so I sent a note to the WASP equipment section, but just found an interesting "official" response regarding the Victoria BC no-doors jeep problem. based on that info, the cj-10a could legally be driven in BC without doors, and if there, more than likely here in WA state... this also seems to follow what I could find in the WA RCWs... about doors... and matches the "horror story" I heard from a used car dealer about his YJ. will post what I get from the WASP as well. - -------------------------- Here is an excerpt of the "Jeep Doors Issue" reply from the Government of BC: http://www.cj-8.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-7124.html Dear Mr. Ulrich: Your recent web mail letter was forwarded to this office, the Commercial Vehicle Safety and Enforcement Division, for response. [B]We contacted DaimlerChrysler to get clarification on which Jeep Series required doors to be installed at the time of manufacturer. The Jeep Series CJ, which was discontinued in 1986, was available without doors. Jeep Series CJ manufactured prior to 1986 is the ONLY Jeep which can be operated on the highway without doors. The Jeep TJ and YJ models are manufactured with driver and passenger side doors. These vehicles must be equipped with the Original Equipment Manufacturer or equivalent doors while operated on the highway. If these vehicles are being driven on the highway without the doors attached as originally installed, a Violation Ticket could be issued and a Notice and Order given or both. - -------------------------- likely legally doorless in snohomish, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:00:34 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed and rust- Here it is foggy, damp, windy and there is no salt... but it rusts..... may be because the fog carries some residual salt. But I was further away from the coastline 10 years ago and the poor thing was getting attacked by oxygen already. The motorcycle fender is like a cheese grater.... almost. Michel > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:50:29 -0700 > why is that? even if you parked that thing and it never saw > a salted road it will rust out... just sitting there. > > I can leave bare metal sitting out for years and it never rusts > through here... we have relatively high humidity during the winter > with all our mizzle... summers are dry... > > wonder if it's a function of heat and humidity... rarely is it > humid and warm here... when the clouds roll back it gets dry. > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 31 Jul 2009, Bob Brooks wrote: > > # John; > # > # Very true, the only rust free vehicles here in NY were imported from dryer > # climates, and once they get here, they rust pretty quick!! > # > # Bob > # > # -----Original Message----- > # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:53 PM > # To: Bob Brooks > # Cc: 'Tesar Landon-R16884'; 'local Jeep list'; Bob Brooks > # Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? > # > # if it were it wouldn't be rust free... :) > # > # ----- > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > # On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Bob Brooks wrote: > # > # # Boy I wish that was out here on the right coast!! > # # > # # Bob > # # > # # -----Original Message----- > # # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > # Tesar > # # Landon-R16884 > # # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:25 PM > # # To: john > # # Cc: local Jeep list > # # Subject: RE: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? > # # > # # I must go look. God is smiling on me. > # # > # # - L > # # > # # -----Original Message----- > # # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of > # # john > # # Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:27 PM > # # To: Tesar Landon-R16884 > # # Cc: local Jeep list > # # Subject: Re: fsj: Gladiator - bed correct? > # # > # # yes. > # # > # # even my stepside bed is the same as the Willys pickups... > # # > # # it's the long wheel base version... even has the original tornado > # # engine, cool. > # # my '65 stepside was the shorter version of that bed... > # # > # # excellent price... > # # > # # john > # # > # # > # # > # # ----- > # # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # # > # # > # # On Thu, 30 Jul 2009, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: > # # > # # # Hey, can someone take a look and tell me if the bed looks correct on > # # # this '63 Gladiator? > # # # Looks like it came from a Willys pickup, there may be a reason for > # # that > # # # :) > # # # http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/1292690398.html > # # # > # # # - Landon > # # # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_ML OGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3391 **************************