From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Aug 23 22:49:04 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, August 24 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3412 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 From: wallacem7-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen this issue go away with a mild body lift? I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a weak spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent oil it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under the heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these engines up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too bad either. They seem to respond to big compression well. One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 Mark Wallace ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:58:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 ok, I'll defend the 360 as well, it makes a great boat anchor, plenty of weight to hold you in place in even the strongest of tides... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: # Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen this issue go away with a mild body lift? # # I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a weak spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent oil it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under the heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these engines up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too bad either. They seem to respond to big compression well. # # One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 # # Mark Wallace # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:12:30 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 I prefer the 304 to the 360 but I get close to the same power from both. I had several people ask if my 304 was a 401 with the loads I put on it. Lol! > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen this issue go away with a mild body lift? > > I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a weak spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent oil it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under the heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these engines up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too bad either. They seem to respond to big compression well. > > One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 > > Mark Wallace _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON: WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:16:28 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Oops! On the air cleaner, I put a shorter filter in mine. Body lift will work too > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen this issue go away with a mild body lift? > > I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a weak spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent oil it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under the heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these engines up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too bad either. They seem to respond to big compression well. > > One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 > > Mark Wallace _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackTo School_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:03:14 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 With 346Kmiles on my OEM 360, I cannot complain. Especially after the EGR failed and I had to Temporarily drive without it last week until it is available from the Jeep dealership..... It is back ordered... I must say that it has been running really well on my sierra trip last week. So the next step is probably to put one of my spare 2150 to help power when going above 5000'. And as the intake manifold rubber gaskets have been oozing for a while, the performer seemed like a good idea until the AF clearance issues are mentioned. Is the performer a big improvement? with my 2.67 gearing, I barely go above 2500rpm which is about 70 mph to prevent dipping below 13mpg. Michel So what are the shorter Air filter assembly choices? > From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:12:30 -0700 > > I prefer the 304 to the 360 but I get close to the same power from both. I had > several people ask if my 304 was a 401 with the loads I put on it. Lol! > > > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the > stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always > appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have > had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen > this issue go away with a mild body lift? > > > > I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this > engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high > nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a weak > spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent oil > it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely > related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were > one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under the > heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these engines > up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too bad > either. They seem to respond to big compression well. > > > > One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 > > > > Mark Wallace > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. > http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON: > WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail. is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM _HYGN_faster:082009 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:27:58 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 iirc, i think there is a "deep dish" filter housing bottom that you can put on those things. it arcs downward from the carb intake mounting surface and covers up more of the carb than the stock bottom plate. should solve the problem. all this bashing of the AMC motors, and i *still* haven't gotten the chance to put my freshly rebuilt and mildly warmed 360 through its paces! too many other projects keep pushing the J-truck to the back burner. :( Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" To: ; Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 > Oops! On the air cleaner, I put a shorter filter in mine. Body lift will work > too > > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > > > Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the > stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always > appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have > had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen > this issue go away with a mild body lift? > > > > I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this > engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high > nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a weak > spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent oil > it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely > related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were > one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under the > heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these engines > up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too bad > either. They seem to respond to big compression well. > > > > One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 > > > > Mark Wallace > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. > http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackTo > School_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:29:34 -0400 From: wallacem7-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 Honestly it's been so long since I had a stock motor (Summer of 1994) and my mindset has changed some over the years, and the Wagoneer's mission has gone from only vehicle/trail truck to a project vehicle that may see some trailer pulling duty after it's safe to drive again. I may do forest service roads, but nothing extreme anymore. That being said I don't have a great baseline because I drove the stock two barrel motor at 7000 feet above sea level almost entirely, rebuilt the motor with the performer and a vacuum secondary Holley and moved to sea level,? drove across the country a few times and moved to 500 feet above sea level and changed to a Carter AFB. I have since moved back to 7000 feet above sea level, but can't really take the Wag out of the neighborhood because of a frame rust issue. that being said I never dialed the Holley in for high altitude but whenever I went over the mountains I would get a dead spot between only primaries and where the secondaries would open. the dead spot would start being noticible at about 4000 feet and get bigger the higher I went up. With the Carter AFB I definitely got the secondaries open easier (I probably dialed in that carb better) and through the locking differential I would usually chirp the tires going into second (on purpose...not 100% necessary). I was always surprised by how much power it did have. it definitely felt more powerful than my 318 Dakota (3.54 gear and 31x10.50s) versus 360 Wag with 3.31 gears and 235/75-15s. I could haul a small car on a trailer pretty well with that set up. there have also been a couple of transmissions along the way, the best one being a salvage yard trans that feels like a trailer tow trans...it has very solid shifts...I think it's out of an 85, but I don't really know any more about it. There are a few other mods in the engine too...three angle valve grind, performance cam, the block has been shaved, the heads have been shaved, I have had various exhausts including dual Cherry Bombs and a single Flowmaster,? few other things I can't remember so I don't have an apples to apples comparison. I want to say that I remember the number of 3200 RPM at highway speed also giving about 13 MPG. I could look it up as i have written down every tank of gas that I have purchased since 1995. I think I would drive about 70 to 75 on the highway. Above 80 it takes more effort to keep in a lane. at 346,000 miles I'd be inclined to rebuild the engine as a unit after it is worn out. I'd suspect that the cam has lost a lot of it's profile, the timing chain likely has some slack it it, and the compression may not be what it was. If I were to build one today I'd get a 401 crank, offset grind it for a 3.8 inch stroke, go with 11 or 12:1 pistons, forged rods, port the stock iron heads, set a mild street cam for low end torque, balance everything, and then run an E-85 carburetor to deal with the octane issues. As one vehicle out of a fleet that varies from 4 to 6 the expense of fuel injection is too high.? - -----Original Message----- From: Michel Balea To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsjdigest digest Sent: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 7:03 pm Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 With 346Kmiles on my OEM 360, I cannot complain. Especially after the EGR failed and I had to Temporarily drive without it last week until it is available from the Jeep dealership..... It is back ordered...? I must say that it has been running really well on my sierra trip last week. So the next step is probably to put one of my spare 2150 to help power when going above 5000'. And as the intake manifold rubber gaskets have been oozing for a while, the performer seemed like a good idea until the AF clearance issues are mentioned. Is the performer a big improvement?? with my 2.67 gearing, I barely go above 2500rpm which is about 70 mph to prevent dipping below 13mpg. Michel So what are the shorter Air filter assembly choices? - -clip- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:42:01 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 couldn't you just put a plate over that hole and retard your timing a bit? ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 24 Aug 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # With 346Kmiles on my OEM 360, I cannot complain. Especially after the EGR # failed and I had to Temporarily drive without it last week until it is # available from the Jeep dealership..... It is back ordered... I must say that # it has been running really well on my sierra trip last week. # # So the next step is probably to put one of my spare 2150 to help power when # going above 5000'. And as the intake manifold rubber gaskets have been oozing # for a while, the performer seemed like a good idea until the AF clearance # issues are mentioned. # # Is the performer a big improvement? with my 2.67 gearing, I barely go above # 2500rpm which is about 70 mph to prevent dipping below 13mpg. # # Michel # # So what are the shorter Air filter assembly choices? # # > From: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 # > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:12:30 -0700 # > # > I prefer the 304 to the 360 but I get close to the same power from both. I # had # > several people ask if my 304 was a 401 with the loads I put on it. Lol! # > # > # > # > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > > Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 # > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 # > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com # > > # > > Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the # > stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always # > appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I have # > had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody seen # > this issue go away with a mild body lift? # > > # > > I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this # > engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high # > nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a # weak # > spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent # oil # > it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely # > related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s were # > one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under # the # > heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these # engines # > up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too # bad # > either. They seem to respond to big compression well. # > > # > > One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 # > > # > > Mark Wallace # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. # > # http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON: # > WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail. is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. # http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM # _HYGN_faster:082009 # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:48:37 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 for towing the 360 is a good engine... if you don't care about economy... my 4.7 pulls the same load effortlessly and still gives me 13 to 14 mpg or better... my best 360 without a load would barely do 12... almost 13 once... towing a 4.0L up from Oregon I got 12.75 mpg... towing a heavier load, trailer and bigger engine back from Idaho with the 4.7 I got at least 14, and 16 pulling down to centralia... if it weren't for all the computers associated with the 4.7 it would be a superb swap for an FSJ... there's probably 1,000lbs difference between an SJ and a WJ... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 23 Aug 2009, Neal Hoover wrote: # iirc, i think there is a "deep dish" filter housing bottom that you can put # on those things. it arcs downward from the carb intake mounting surface and # covers up more of the carb than the stock bottom plate. # should solve the problem. # # all this bashing of the AMC motors, and i *still* haven't gotten the chance # to put my freshly rebuilt and mildly warmed 360 through its paces! too many # other projects keep pushing the J-truck to the back burner. # :( # # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # # # ----- Original Message ----- # From: "Jim Blair" # To: ; # Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:16 PM # Subject: RE: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 # # # > Oops! On the air cleaner, I put a shorter filter in mine. Body lift will # work # > too # > # > > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net # > > Subject: fsj: In defence of the AMC 360 # > > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:41:45 -0400 # > > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com # > > # > > Is anybody else running an Edelbrock Performer intake manifold with the # > stock air cleaner housing? My hood hits the air cleaner lid? and always # > appears high in the back along the windshield/air intake fence line. I # have # > had this issue with both a Holley and a Carter carburetor. Has anybody # seen # > this issue go away with a mild body lift? # > > # > > I have to come to the defense of the AMC 360 engine on account of this # > engine has served me very well. It's got some good features like the high # > nickle content block, and a decent head design. It's oiling system was a # weak # > spot, but it's a decent revving engine. As long as you keep it in decent # oil # > it's durability is very good. I think it's efficiency issues are largely # > related to it being an 8.25:1 compression engine. Low Compression V-8s # were # > one of the things that brought Detroit down. One of the many things under # the # > heading "failure to modernize" Some of the magazines have built these # engines # > up...not as cheap or as easy to get power out of as a Chevy, but not too # bad # > either. They seem to respond to big compression well. # > > # > > One of these days maybe I'll build myself a big compression AMC V-8 # > > # > > Mark Wallace # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. # > # http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackTo # > School_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3412 **************************