From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Sep 14 23:19:14 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, September 15 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3426 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: [mdiaircar] Re: Digest Number 749 RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... Re: fsj: RE: [mdiaircar] Re: Digest Number 749 Re: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... fsj: 76 J10 6 cyl 3 speed std near Seattle (not mine and BRIGHT green!) $600 Re: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:41:36 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [mdiaircar] Re: Digest Number 749 why mess with air power? unless you could use the brakes to create the air pressure... store it, then release it... but without an on-board compressor... there was a test setup using hydraulics in the mid-80s in pop mech or sci... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # # Just imagine a diesel/electric with an air motor booster? Maybe 80 mpg like they had with the VW Lupo in Europe that was banned in the US? # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # # # ---------------------------------------- # > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:29:41 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > Subject: Re: FW: [mdiaircar] Re: Digest Number 749 # > # > that's because DIESEL is the most efficient... got Diesel? :) # > # http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:33:39 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... All we need then is a 4.0L WK or WJ as a guinea pig! (I've been watching) Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:40:25 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; abcvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; xj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > > sounds like a good plan... I have an AW4... with computer... > and a custom adapter to mate to an SJ xfr case... > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > # > # If I ever get a chance to poke around one of those 4.0L powered rigs, I'll see if I can graft the AW4 back into it. I helped with a '94 GW with the harness I had from a '93 with AW4 and it worked great. > # > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # > # > # > # > # ---------------------------------------- > # > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:26:34 -0700 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: fsj-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; DZAshby-at-comcast.net; xj-at-digest.net > # > Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > # > > # > my '99 WJ has Quadradrive... works fine, but it does have some history of > # > not working as advertised for some folks. the early wj's had issues > # > with the pinion bearing preload not being set properly at the factory... > # > not a big deal... dana 44's fore and aft. I have had momentary episodes > # > of it not engaging immediately... (on my hillside, but it does engage > # > and I'm able to get out of my drive, easier than I did with Quadratrac > # > on Old Blue, a legend as reported at Camp Jeep 1998. :) > # > > # > the 4.7L V8 is a superb motor, but short commutes and dino oil are NOT > # > recommended... with dino oil the best my 4.7's have done is 18.3, with > # > amsoil synthetic I see 21 mpg on the freeway at times. > # > > # > the quadra drive system uses gerotor technology, very cool, all mechanical, > # > no electronics... simple... when it works it's great... works fine > # > even when it doesn't work though, just without the lock up. > # > > # > gerotor uses a very simple system of clutches... the patent > # > is owned by a company in Santa Barbara, one of the guys from my old FSJ list > # > is a mechanical engineer that went to work there. > # > > # > info on Quadradrive: > # > http://www.wjjeeps.com/tcases.htm (the wjjeeps site is outstanding!) > # > from wikipedia: > # > 'Quadra-Drive (WJ) > # > > # > Quadra-Drive employed the New Venture Gear NV247 transfer case. > # > This two-speed chain-driven transfer case uses a gerotor, a clutch pack coupled to a > # > hydraulic pump, to transfer torque between the front and rear axles. The > # > transfer case contains three modes, 4-All Time, Neutral, and 4-Lo. > # > In 4-All Time, 100% of torque is sent to the rear axle in normal conditions. > # > If the rear axle starts spinning at a higher rate than the front axle, > # > hydraulic pressure builds up in the gerotor and causes the clutch pack to > # > progressively transfer torque to the front axle until both axles return to the > # > same speed. Neutral mode is intended for towing the vehicle. In 4-Lo, > # > the front and rear axles are locked together through a 2.72 reduction gear ratio. > # > > # > In Quadra-Drive, the NV247 transfer case is mated to front and rear axles > # > containing Jeep's Vari-Lok differentials. Vari-Lok differentials also use a > # > gerotor to transfer torque. > # > > # > Applications: * Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 1999.2004 ' > # > > # > > # > As far as WJs, avoid the 4.0 not because the 4.0 isn't good, it's because > # > it's mated to the same crappy trans they used in the ZJs, the 42RE. The > # > 4.7's are mated to the 45RFE, have had very good luck with them, and better > # > highway mileage. In town the 4.0s will get about 1mpg more... > # > > # > I've had three '99 WJs, 2 4.7s and 1 4.0. Two Laredos, one Limited. The > # > climate control on the Limiteds is ok, max temp diff of 5deg between sides, > # > I could never get it cold enough on my side, wife couldn't get it warm enough > # > on her side... simple is better, but I wouldn't not get it. > # > > # > my '99 has 165,000 miles on it... just replace a couple axle seals and a > # > front wheel bearing, otherwise nothing but a sensor in the trans ($65) has > # > gone wrong... if your brakes rotors warp, get the power slotted replacements. > # > > # > run synthetics throughout and you'll be happy... oh yeah, and get the cabin filter, > # > easy to install... the infinity sound system is superb... > # > > # > I transplanted leather seats into my laredo... > # > > # > with the price of WJs coming down I may look for a bargain on one with a dead > # > 4.7 from oil failure (pennzoil, quaker state or valvoline compliments minute lube > # > places and short commutes... sludge, clogs the galleries and cam failure results, > # > engines are hard to find and very, very expensive...) > # > > # > I would think the 4.7/45rfe/nv247 drivetrain would be a superb swap into > # > an XJ or SJ, but for all the computers... you'd have to get ALL of the > # > wiring and computers and original keys to make it work... would be nice if > # > you did... the 4.7 is the smoothest fastest reving V8 I've ever owned, love it. > # > > # > > # > We love our WJ for interstate travel... this was at Glacier in 2006: > # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/SouthDakota_2006/WJ-lightning.jpg > # > it's also a fine tow rig, way overloaded: > # > http://wagoneers.com/fotos/2008/01-Jan-19-mark-snow-omega_recovery/P1150161.j pg > # > > # > have some info on WJs on my site, not as extensive as XJ or SJ (because it just works... :) > # > http://wagoneers.com/WJ/ > # > > # > john > # > > # > > # > ----- > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, David Bierschank wrote: > # > > # > # I am looking at a 2001Grand Cherokee with the Quadra drive. I have not > # > # really ever looked at the Grands very closely. This Jeep has about every > # > # option I am looking for ..... I definitely want a 4x4, but I just am not > # > # familiar with the Quadra dirve system. It also had a V-8 with about 95000 > # > # miles. > # > # > # > # What are your opinions on this Quadra dive system? Is this something to > # > # avoid, with know issues, or is it a non factor? > # > # > # > # It would take the guess work from my wife as to if she needs to engage the > # > # 4wdr on snow and ice.... which is a plus. > # > # > # > # This Jeep, would just be a daily driver and for some short family weekend > # > # trips. So I am not looking to wheel with it or lift it.... just typical city > # > # driving. > # > # > # > # I have not driven the Jeep yet, but plan to in the next couple of days. Any > # > # other input spacific to this year model and set up, as far as things to look > # > # for would be great. > # > # Thanks for any input.... > # > # > # > # David > # > # > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Bing brings you health info from trusted sources. > # http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MH EINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 > # _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:14:07 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: RE: [mdiaircar] Re: Digest Number 749 Eh, the lupo is tiny by golf/jetta standards. Do *NOT* get me started how NHTSA and the EPA have remained in the past and refused to consider what has been accepted as fact in europe where safety, emissions, and efficiency are all not for sale as they seem to be here stateside. Probably shouldn't get John started on that either. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 07:00:13PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > Just imagine a diesel/electric with an air motor booster? Maybe 80 mpg like > they had with the VW Lupo in Europe that was banned in the US? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:26:06 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... Around 1997 or so, the transmission computer's functions moved to the ECU. Unless you have an OBD-I ZJ with a 4.0 and 42E (95, and maybe 96 given XJ timelines), this isn't going to be an easy task at all. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 09:33:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > All we need then is a 4.0L WK or WJ as a guinea pig! (I've been watching) > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:40:25 -0700 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; abcvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; > xj-at-digest.net > > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > > > > sounds like a good plan... I have an AW4... with computer... > > and a custom adapter to mate to an SJ xfr case... > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > > > > # > > # > > # If I ever get a chance to poke around one of those 4.0L powered rigs, > I'll see if I can graft the AW4 back into it. I helped with a '94 GW with the > harness I had from a '93 with AW4 and it worked great. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:47:52 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 From: kevin > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > Around 1997 or so, the transmission computer's functions moved to the ECU. > Unless you have an OBD-I ZJ with a 4.0 and 42E (95, and maybe 96 given XJ > timelines), this isn't going to be an easy task at all. It all depends on how much energy one can spend. On one of the XJ list, some people starting to decode the renix cpu..... Why Renix... it does not matter if it is simple, but it can be done. I'd rather be wheeling. Michel _________________________________________________________________ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&c rea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:49:12 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... The way around that is to check the parameters of the program Mopar wrote for their trans and see if it's compatible with the AW4. If not, then a computer can be changed to std trans programming and add the AW4 external computer with the sensors it needs (TVS cable and TPS) It's pretty simple to do. Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:26:06 -0700 > From: kevin-at-mordred.punk.net > To: xj-at-digest.net > CC: john-at-wagoneers.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > > Around 1997 or so, the transmission computer's functions moved to the ECU. > > Unless you have an OBD-I ZJ with a 4.0 and 42E (95, and maybe 96 given XJ > timelines), this isn't going to be an easy task at all. > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 09:33:39PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > > All we need then is a 4.0L WK or WJ as a guinea pig! (I've been watching) > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:40:25 -0700 > > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; abcvoice-at-worldnet.att.net; dzashby-at-comcast.net; > > xj-at-digest.net > > > Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... > > > > > > sounds like a good plan... I have an AW4... with computer... > > > and a custom adapter to mate to an SJ xfr case... > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > > > > > > # > > > # > > > # If I ever get a chance to poke around one of those 4.0L powered rigs, > > I'll see if I can graft the AW4 back into it. I helped with a '94 GW with the > > harness I had from a '93 with AW4 and it worked great. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:50:27 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: 76 J10 6 cyl 3 speed std near Seattle (not mine and BRIGHT green!) $600 http://www.nw-wheelers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=642926 _________________________________________________________________ Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's. http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&c rea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:51:29 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: Quadra drive? - good system... Simple? That's why people have had such fun adapting the AW4 for a carbed engine? Reinventing the wheel sucks. On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 10:49:12PM -0700, Jim Blair wrote: > The way around that is to check the parameters of the program Mopar wrote for > their trans and see if it's compatible with the AW4. If not, then a computer > can be changed to std trans programming and add the AW4 external computer with > the sensors it needs (TVS cable and TPS) It's pretty simple to do. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:15:02 +0000 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 5/1/02; removed list of spam strings, as i'm not the only one filtering on them -- rpw] Additional information on Digest.Net's spam policies may be found at http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html and http://www.digest.net/blocked.html Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? 6. Is there a web subscription form? 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? 8. How do I contact the server adminstrator in an emergency? 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? [this section is no longer operative, as the demime software now strips html, attachments, rich text format, etc. from postings automatically.] e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, many phrases found commonly in spam are automatically blocked. h) are you using "funky" character sets? [7 bit restriction lifted experimentally on 8/2/00 -- film at 11] unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? See http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html for more information about Digest.Net policies about email. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of spam control severices (again, see http://www.digest.net/email-policy.html) When these services register a hit, the error code 550 is returned. 550 is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". The "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net may be viewed at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) l) Is SMTP over TLS involved? This is a bit esoteric, but as of 8/8/01 the digest.net mail server will attempt to use "TLS" (Transport Layer Security) for outbound mail if the destination mail server offers it. SMTP over TLS is fairly new technology, and a bit buggy. I am monitoring the logs on the server, and when I see TLS related problems, I manually place the problem destinations on a special exception list; however, this may delay email to the destination host until I make the exception. 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. 6. Is there a web subscription form? Yes, recently added. go to http://www.digest.net/bin/digest-subs.cgi 7. Why not move the lists to someplace like (egroups, topica,...)? The Krusty Motorsports server (aka, digest.net) was explicitly to provide for efficient management of the various automotive mailing lists, done the way that the owner of the server wanted it done. Any migration off of the server (which is already bought, paid for, and configured) would create any number of issues. 8. How do i contact the Server Administrator in an emergency? If my regular email address (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) isn't working for you, you can fall back on rwelty-at-suespammers.org 9. What is Krusty Motorsports, anyway? Krusty Motorsports (http:/www.krusty-motorsports.com/) is a business which is owned and operated by Richard Welty (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com). Krusty is an S-Corporation in the State of New York. Krusty provides a number of Internet related services, such as mailing list, web sites, pop3/telnet accounts, and consulting on internet related issues. For more information, see the web site. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3426 **************************