From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 23 10:38:03 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 23 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3430 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? Re: fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? RE: fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars Re: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars RE: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars RE: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars Re: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars Re: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars Re: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:04:25 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? john said: {- the deadly crash of a Lexus could have been avoided had the off-duty {- state trooper known to hold the START button for three seconds... {- better question is why didn't he just put it in neutral??? Was he {- afraid he'd damage the engine, or did the computer override his {- intentions like an Airbus? [...] {- Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons told the Associated Press the driver could {- have turned off the car by holding its start button for three seconds. Is it just me, or does that sound a bit too much like Windows? To shut down, press "Start"... http://www.jokesunlimited.com/jokes/if_microsoft_made_cars.html Don't miss the last one. Much like the loads of extra toolbars in Microsoft software, it's no longer a joke, but reality. {- when I hear of people crashing because the throttle sticks I can't help {- but wonder why they didn't THINK... turn car off, put it in neutral, {- sideswipe a guard rail... how hard can it be??? oh no, let's all {- scream like little girls and go out in a ball of fire... Well, I'd start (there's that word again...) by shutting off the engine, then still use the brakes instead of trying to hit the guard rail. But in this case, the article said his brakes weren't responding. Makes me wonder... It's unlikely that the accelerator would stick _and_ the brakes would go out at the same time (unless you'd already been fighting the accelerator with the brakes for quite awhile). Does the Lexus disable the brakes when the accelerator's on? That'd be a really stupid design. Much like the Airbus bit you mentioned. {- If this isn't the case, then these cars should be outlawed... because {- there was an experienced trooper at the helm I can't wonder if the Lexus {- has a serious design flaw... {- {- john {- {- {- http://www.leftlanenews.com/mismatched-floor-mat-implicated-in-catastrophic-lexus-crash.html {- {- Mismatched floor mat implicated in catastrophic Lexus crash {- 09/17/2009, 2:01 PM {- By Nick Aziz {- {- A fatal unintended acceleration incident involving a 2009 Lexus ES just {- over two weeks ago might have been the result of a mismatched floor mat, {- investigators have announced. The revelation has prompted Toyota to {- order all 1,400 dealers to ensure all of their vehicles have proper {- mats. {- {- The accident, which took place on August 28th, left the driver, off-duty {- California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, dead, along with his {- wife, Cleofe, their daughter, Mahala, and Saylor's brother-in-law, Chris {- Lastrella. {- {- The heartbreaking story began with a call to police about a minute {- before the crash, with Saylor's passenger indicating the vehicle's {- brakes were not responding and the accelerator was stuck. The call ends {- with one of the male occupants directing the others to "hold on and {- pray," followed by a woman's scream. {- {- Police say the car reached a speed o 120 mph before it clipped an SUV {- and launched over and embankment, bursting into flames. {- {- Investigators with the NHTSA say the car, which was a loaner from a {- dealership, had a driver's side rubber all-weather that was too long. It {- was from a model other than the ES. It is believed the mat interfered {- with the accelerator and brake pedals. {- {- Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons told the Associated Press the driver could {- have turned off the car by holding its start button for three seconds. {- However, this would have resulted in a loss of power steering and {- power-assist to the brakes. Alternatively, the driver could have shifted {- the car to neutral when the unintended acceleration began. It's unclear {- if some other problem prevented this from happening. {- {- Ironically, Toyota recalled Camry and Lexus ES all-weather mats in 2007 {- after complaints about jammed accelerators. However, the car involved in {- the crash was not equipped with these mats, but rather mats from another {- car. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Smoking is a leading cause of statistics. -- Fletcher Knebel - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? I think the brakes had failed... major fade... they'll only work against an engine for so long... I'm thinking that something prevented the guy from putting it in neutral... I wonder if we'll ever hear the outcome of the analysis. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- the deadly crash of a Lexus could have been avoided had the off-duty # {- state trooper known to hold the START button for three seconds... # {- better question is why didn't he just put it in neutral??? Was he # {- afraid he'd damage the engine, or did the computer override his # {- intentions like an Airbus? # [...] # {- Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons told the Associated Press the driver could # {- have turned off the car by holding its start button for three seconds. # # Is it just me, or does that sound a bit too much like Windows? To shut # down, press "Start"... # # http://www.jokesunlimited.com/jokes/if_microsoft_made_cars.html # Don't miss the last one. Much like the loads of extra toolbars in # Microsoft software, it's no longer a joke, but reality. # # {- when I hear of people crashing because the throttle sticks I can't help # {- but wonder why they didn't THINK... turn car off, put it in neutral, # {- sideswipe a guard rail... how hard can it be??? oh no, let's all # {- scream like little girls and go out in a ball of fire... # # Well, I'd start (there's that word again...) by shutting off the engine, # then still use the brakes instead of trying to hit the guard rail. But # in this case, the article said his brakes weren't responding. # # Makes me wonder... It's unlikely that the accelerator would stick _and_ # the brakes would go out at the same time (unless you'd already been # fighting the accelerator with the brakes for quite awhile). Does the # Lexus disable the brakes when the accelerator's on? That'd be a really # stupid design. Much like the Airbus bit you mentioned. # # {- If this isn't the case, then these cars should be outlawed... because # {- there was an experienced trooper at the helm I can't wonder if the Lexus # {- has a serious design flaw... # {- # {- john # {- # {- # {- http://www.leftlanenews.com/mismatched-floor-mat-implicated-in-catastrophic-lexus-crash.html # {- # {- Mismatched floor mat implicated in catastrophic Lexus crash # {- 09/17/2009, 2:01 PM # {- By Nick Aziz # {- # {- A fatal unintended acceleration incident involving a 2009 Lexus ES just # {- over two weeks ago might have been the result of a mismatched floor mat, # {- investigators have announced. The revelation has prompted Toyota to # {- order all 1,400 dealers to ensure all of their vehicles have proper # {- mats. # {- # {- The accident, which took place on August 28th, left the driver, off-duty # {- California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor, dead, along with his # {- wife, Cleofe, their daughter, Mahala, and Saylor's brother-in-law, Chris # {- Lastrella. # {- # {- The heartbreaking story began with a call to police about a minute # {- before the crash, with Saylor's passenger indicating the vehicle's # {- brakes were not responding and the accelerator was stuck. The call ends # {- with one of the male occupants directing the others to "hold on and # {- pray," followed by a woman's scream. # {- # {- Police say the car reached a speed o 120 mph before it clipped an SUV # {- and launched over and embankment, bursting into flames. # {- # {- Investigators with the NHTSA say the car, which was a loaner from a # {- dealership, had a driver's side rubber all-weather that was too long. It # {- was from a model other than the ES. It is believed the mat interfered # {- with the accelerator and brake pedals. # {- # {- Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons told the Associated Press the driver could # {- have turned off the car by holding its start button for three seconds. # {- However, this would have resulted in a loss of power steering and # {- power-assist to the brakes. Alternatively, the driver could have shifted # {- the car to neutral when the unintended acceleration began. It's unclear # {- if some other problem prevented this from happening. # {- # {- Ironically, Toyota recalled Camry and Lexus ES all-weather mats in 2007 # {- after complaints about jammed accelerators. However, the car involved in # {- the crash was not equipped with these mats, but rather mats from another # {- car. # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Smoking is a leading cause of statistics. # -- Fletcher Knebel # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:52:28 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? As you said, just like windows.... sometimes I ask my engineer friends if the devices they are designing are based on Win OS... always a deer in the headlight looks..... Tested a neat device yesterday....to turn off, you have to press the start button.... They will probably replace it w the universal logo for on/off. Always a great joke on the MS/GM..... I forgot the details about apple.... cute. Have you rented a prius .... We sat in the lot for a few minutes trying to get moving: put the key in, press start.... nothing, press start for some time nothing... press start and the brake pedal... nothing.... in the mean time all the displays are lit... but nothing... even moving the gear selector.... We wave an attendant... he starts the car and leave.... before I have a chance to ask how to start it? I called a friend who has one.... press the brake pedal before you press the start button..... makes for a good anti-theft feature. Turning off the engine will require a little more force to brake and steer the car.... but it still works..... Otherwise running out of gas could be deadly.... Seems like the same behavior that plagued the audi for the automatic when people swore that the car would accelerate while put in reverse..... c'mon.... and the worse was that the lawyers made some $$$ on it... If you remember the pedals were too close and some people's foot had a tendency to press the brake and the throttle pedals at the same time when they were putting in reverse and twisting their body for a back up. They had the same in France where people on the freeway blamed the cruise control for launching their airbus ... sorry, renault into high speed on the freeway. A misplaced mat has been blamed for high idle on the XJ. Shall we call it a darwin event..... I had brakes fail on a vehicle once (in fact I am a repeat offender, twice) .... I could feel it coming.... brake were fading way too fast on a mountain road.... I was lucky it was a stick so I traveled the remaining 60 miles downshifting as needed .... and the hand brake for the few stop lights we encountered.... a well as unlit horse drawn carriages, donkeys....(why, it was nite and no garages nor hotels) In fact the foreign built 4x4 was behaving very well.....(not an asian brand). Michel > fsj: hold the start button for three seconds? > From: dan-at-black.org > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:04:25 -0500 > > john said: > {- the deadly crash of a Lexus could have been avoided had the off-duty > {- state trooper known to hold the START button for three seconds... > {- better question is why didn't he just put it in neutral??? Was he > {- afraid he'd damage the engine, or did the computer override his > {- intentions like an Airbus? > [...] > {- Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons told the Associated Press the driver could > {- have turned off the car by holding its start button for three seconds. > > Is it just me, or does that sound a bit too much like Windows? To shut > down, press "Start"... _________________________________________________________________ Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_M LOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:39:30 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars I just want a factory AM/FM/CB and I'll be happy! Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars and y'all thought I was nuts for wanting two CBs (one with a WX band), and a stereo in my J10. check this out: http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html :) john _________________________________________________________________ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^Y now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:57:21 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars that comes with an 8-track ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # I just want a factory AM/FM/CB and I'll be happy! # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # From: john # Subject: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars # # and y'all thought I was nuts for wanting two CBs (one with a WX band), # and a stereo in my J10. # # check this out: # http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html # # :) # # john # # _________________________________________________________________ # Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^Y now # http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try # bing_1x1 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:55:23 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars Woo hoo! I still have an 8track to CD converter someplace! Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:57:21 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: xj-at-digest.net > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars > > that comes with an 8-track > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: > > # I just want a factory AM/FM/CB and I'll be happy! > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # From: john > # Subject: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars > # > # and y'all thought I was nuts for wanting two CBs (one with a WX band), > # and a stereo in my J10. > # > # check this out: > # http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html > # > # :) > # > # john > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^Y now > # http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_tr y > # bing_1x1 > # _________________________________________________________________ Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^Y now http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:15:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars you're one sick puppy... (takes one to know one. ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # Woo hoo! I still have an 8track to CD converter someplace! # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # > Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:57:21 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: xj-at-digest.net # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: xj: Re: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars # > # > that comes with an 8-track # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # I just want a factory AM/FM/CB and I'll be happy! # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # From: john # > # Subject: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars # > # # > # and y'all thought I was nuts for wanting two CBs (one with a WX band), # > # and a stereo in my J10. # > # # > # check this out: # > # # http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html # > # # > # :) # > # # > # john # > # # > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^Y now # > # # http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_tr # y # > # bing_1x1 # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing^Y now # http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try # bing_1x1 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 22:42:23 -0700 From: "Joe" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars Yea, I think those would be a minor distraction while driving. Just imagine the draw on the alternator. My ham car is a 31' motorhome. I've had a license for 15 years and never really use a ham radio. Joe H, N7RMJ - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:45 AM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars and y'all thought I was nuts for wanting two CBs (one with a WX band), and a stereo in my J10. check this out: http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, David Ashby wrote: # John, # # # # I doubt if the J-100 ever looked like this ;) # # # # Dave # # # # _____ # # # # Here's what is meant by the word, "mobile." # # # # # # # http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:06:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars the lights I had on superdawg would pull down over 42 Amps... :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Joe wrote: # Yea, I think those would be a minor distraction while driving. # # Just imagine the draw on the alternator. # # My ham car is a 31' motorhome. I've had a license for 15 years and never # really use a ham radio. # # Joe H, # N7RMJ # # # # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john # Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:45 AM # To: undisclosed-recipients: # Subject: fsj: Re: FW: ham cars # # and y'all thought I was nuts for wanting two CBs (one with a WX band), # and a stereo in my J10. # # check this out: # http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html # # :) # # john # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Mon, 21 Sep 2009, David Ashby wrote: # # # John, # # # # # # # # I doubt if the J-100 ever looked like this ;) # # # # # # # # Dave # # # # # # # # _____ # # # # # # # # Here's what is meant by the word, "mobile." # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # http://www.jtrg.org/Photoalbum/Members/AF4KK/AF4KK-Project%20Car/index.html # # # # # # # # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:05:14 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars I think that's higher than the rating on the stock motorola alternator in the 74 cherokee. On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:06:04AM -0700, john wrote: > the lights I had on superdawg would pull down over 42 Amps... :) > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009, Joe wrote: > > # Yea, I think those would be a minor distraction while driving. > # > # Just imagine the draw on the alternator. > # > # My ham car is a 31' motorhome. I've had a license for 15 years and never > # really use a ham radio. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:33:04 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: FW: ham cars {- On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:06:04AM -0700, john wrote: {- > the lights I had on superdawg would pull down over 42 Amps... :) Kevin said: {- I think that's higher than the rating on the stock motorola alternator in the {- 74 cherokee. It's right around the same. That's why I replaced mine (in the '74 Wag) with the re-wound alternator from my '85. It was tested at I think over 110 amps. The guy basically said it could put out more than the fins could cool for more than a few minutes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hickory dickory dock The mice ran up the clock The clock struck one And the others escaped with minor injuries... - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3430 **************************