From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Oct 2 19:37:13 2009 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, October 3 2009 Volume 01 : Number 3440 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings RE: fsj: J truck body specs RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings fsj: Re: Just for John Re: fsj: Re: Just for John Re: fsj: Re: Just for John RE: fsj: Re: Just for John fsj: stevens pass / leavenworth trip RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 18:11:15 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings > From: john why don't WE, the US, have access to such? RE: I heard that someone is planning to buy land in snohomish to build a factory to assemble/retrofit jeep w biodiesel with cheap engines from Japan..... Can you comment..... Michel _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail.. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_QuickAdd_062009 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:25:38 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: J truck body specs weak BioDiesel... happens when you make it from lower grade veggie oil... the energy content of the cheaper stuff isn't as high... so when you stand on the go pedal you don't... so much... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # Thank you for the offer. # # The teacher has focused on the Jtruck from twister: # 1982 Jeep J-10 HonchoWhat is weak bio-diesel? # # Michel # # # # > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 08:34:00 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: proj96xj-at-insightbb.com # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: J truck body specs # > # > oh. yeah, body panel diagrams, that makes sense... # > # > I may have them in my shop manuals, there's # > two 4' long shelves filled... I'm working from home today, but have # > way too much to do before I start fishing through old manuals and # > taking pictures... unless you can give me a specific year to work on # > and a few panels... page numbers would be helpful. # > # > tomorrow I'm loading up my newly rebuilt RV TF727, new torque converter, # > new center hub and flex plate, ring gear and off I go... heading to # > Centralia, mostly likely in the SD33/TF727 powered tug... to meet # > the guy bringing the SD33T up from Oregon. # > # > How soon it all comes together, who knows... Superdawg is closer # > than ever to being reassembled... the original ideao of a # > 4.0 would have been a gas guzzler and likely would have relegated # > the dawg to hauling stuff on weekends... the 6.2 setup used in # > Omega would have been ok, but as learned in Omega wouldn't have # > netted the kind of economy desired... and the reason why Omega # > and the 6.5 blazer went away... a Mercedes Turbo Diesel would # > have been too complex and likely underpowered... the SD33 by # > itself, not enough power... but the SD33T, with the shift kitted # > TF727, 3.54s and 235s should work out well. The tug gets a solid # > 18 mpg on some of the worst BioDiesel I've gotten in a long time... # > # > the SD33T gets 20% better mileage and power... the J10 is possibly, # > or will be lighter, than the CJ-10... using 3.54s instead of 3.31s, # > so I'm optimistic that my mileage won't be 18 mpg but 20 mpg in town, # > which is also what matches the '80 Scout rating and experience. The # > Scout also claims 24 mpg freeway! wow. I did that with Omega with # > the 6.2, but had an overdrive transmission... # > # > Anyway, Diesel dreamin' and livin' continues... the price of # > newer WKs with the CRD are dropping as well... the plan is to # > replace the WJ, which is a fantastic Jeep, with a Diesel WK, and # > then just have the J10 and the WK, we'd also reluctantly part # > with the '91 300D, which still gets a solid 30 mpg in town, slightly # > less on weak biodiesel... could also part with my trailer... just # > two Diesel vehicles... I have a plan... buy in from my copilot... # > # > I think we should start looking for a nice Townhome with a view of # > sunsets and the Olympics and the Sound... get it initially as a rental, # > then for retirement... :) with only two, fully functional Diesel # > Jeeps I wouldn't need to have a monster carport... :) # > # > speaking of gardens, just took some pictures... heading into a status # > meeting, will edit pictures and post... standby for autumn fotos... # > # > john # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Neal Hoover wrote: # > # > # nice posters! # > # # > # not to slam, but i thought they were looking for technical drawings of # body # > # panels. # > # # > # Neal A. Hoover # > # Project '76 J-10 # > # Project '96 XJ # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" # > # To: "Neal Hoover" # > # Cc: # > # Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 6:13 PM # > # Subject: Re: fsj: J truck body specs # > # # > # # > # >I was waiting for someone to locate it... :) # > # > # > # > maybe firefox can help: # > # > # > # > # http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/funny-pictures-firefox- # tries-to-retrieve-your-file.jpg # > # > # > # > # > # > firefox failed, but I didn't: # > # > # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/SJ-posters.zip # > # > # > # > :) # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org # > # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Thu, 1 Oct 2009, Neal Hoover wrote: # > # > # > # > # lol! # > # > # even if that's true, it still got a chuckle out of me! # > # > # ;) # > # > # # > # > # now, *finding* it is another story. # > # > # (sorry, John, couldn't resist.) # > # > # # > # > # Neal A. Hoover # > # > # Project '76 J-10 # > # > # Project '96 XJ # > # > # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj # > # > # ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Blair" # > # > # To: "michel balea" ; # > # > # Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 12:26 PM # > # > # Subject: RE: fsj: J truck body specs # > # > # # > # > # # > # > # > I'm pretty sure John has them on his site someplace. # > # > http://wagoneers.com # > # > # > # > # > # > Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will # > # > # > like them only Entangle and hold the poor and # > # > # > weak, while the rich and powerful will easily # > # > # > break through them # > # > # > # > # > # > ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com # > # > # > > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > # > > Subject: fsj: J truck body specs # > # > # > > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 16:09:35 +0000 # > # > # > > # > # > # > > A 3D design teacher's student is trying to do a cad model for a # > # > Jtruck. # > # > # > Does # > # > # > > anyone has an idea where to find a good lead on technical # drawings. # > # > # > > # > # > # > > Cheers # > # > # > > # > # > # > > Michel # > # > # > > 74wag # > # > # > > # > # > # > > # _________________________________________________________________ # > # > # > > Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one # place. # > # > Try # > # > # > > it # > # > # > > now. # > # > # > > # > # > # > # > # > # http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_M # > # > # > > LOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 # > # > # > # > # > # > _________________________________________________________________ # > # > # > Bing^Y brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. # > # > Try # > # > # > it # > # > # > now. # > # > # > # > # > # http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_M # > # > # > LOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 # > # # > # # # _________________________________________________________________ # Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don^Rt worry about storage limits. # http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial # _Storage_062009 # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:26:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings let me know when they start hiring... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Michel Balea wrote: # > From: john # # why don't WE, the US, have access to such? # # # RE: I heard that someone is planning to buy land in snohomish to build a # factory to assemble/retrofit jeep w biodiesel with cheap engines from # Japan..... # # Can you comment..... # # Michel # # _________________________________________________________________ # Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail.. # http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria # l_QuickAdd_062009 # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 12:30:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Just for John http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/10/02/hemmings-find-of-the-day-wagoneeeeeeeer/ would have more than a little trouble getting it in, and out of my driveway... :) looks like my '81 and '89 did... something about that dark blue with the tan interior, looks really good with that fake wood grain... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, chuck goolsbee wrote: # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:41:18 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Just for John john said: {- http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/10/02/hemmings-find-of-the-day-wagoneeeeeeeer/ {- looks like my '81 and '89 did... something about that dark blue {- with the tan interior, looks really good with that fake wood grain... It's actually black. I couldn't tell for sure from the pics (contrast and color balance), so I actually read the description. ;) Except for the interior color, I love it! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. -- Douglas Adams - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 14:03:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Just for John that's the best part (interior color. ;) sure is a nice looking rig though... even in black... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Dan Black wrote: # john said: # {- http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/10/02/hemmings-find-of-the-day-wagoneeeeeeeer/ # # {- looks like my '81 and '89 did... something about that dark blue # {- with the tan interior, looks really good with that fake wood grain... # # It's actually black. I couldn't tell for sure from the pics (contrast # and color balance), so I actually read the description. ;) # # Except for the interior color, I love it! # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # The knack of flying is learning how to # throw yourself at the ground and miss. # -- Douglas Adams # -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 21:27:43 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: Re: Just for John Imagine.... 4" lift and dealing w the rear driveshaft..... Michel > Subject: fsj: Re: Just for John > http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2009/10/02/hemmings-find-of-the-day-wagone eeeeeeer/ > > would have more than a little trouble getting it in, and out of my driveway... :) > > looks like my '81 and '89 did... something about that dark blue > with the tan interior, looks really good with that fake wood grain... > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 16:56:54 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: stevens pass / leavenworth trip last weekend's road trip... took the 300D but not before changing the fuel filters, this is what a Diesel filter looks like if you haven't changed it for, oh... about 4 years, and you're running BioDiesel: http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/09-Sep-26-AutumnLeaf-Leavenworth-WA/jem_4646_fuel-filter-after-bioDiesel.jpg went over Stevens Pass, some of the trees were just starting to change. saw a lot of nice old cars and trucks for sale along the way, but resisted the temptation to look... saw a white GW for $400... did take pictures of a Travelall... solid looking, 1973... and RUST FREE (that is mold on the passenger side fender... ;) IH in Sultan(?): http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/09-Sep-26-AutumnLeaf-Leavenworth-WA/IH/ There was a parade going on when we got to Leavenworth: http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/09-Sep-26-AutumnLeaf-Leavenworth-WA/ALL.html coming back we checked out some of the bypasses and trails: http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/09-Sep-26-AutumnLeaf-Leavenworth-WA/Cascades_Pass_Info/ and today, we still have flowers in the garden... http://fotomeister.us/fotos/2009/10-Oct-02-garden-n-clouds/ TOMORROW... Centralia... dropping off the rebuilt TF727 for Superdawg and meeting with the guy from Oregon who's bringing up the SD33T out of his Scout... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://creationwiki.org http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:30:24 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Hey now! I do NOT have a drinking problem! My '73 J4000 got a steady 14 in = town and close to 20 on the highway=2C loaded or not! (thanks in part to th= e 33" tires=2C 3.73 gears and 17% O/D in the PT converted Quadratrac) =A0=A0 My '82 stepside is getting that motor along with an AW4 and NP208 tc= ase. I figure I should push the 20 mpg mark easily with the lighter rig and= cruise comfortably at 70 mph. Jim Blair=2C Lynnwood=2C WA '87 Comanche=2C '83 Jeep J10=2C '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri=2C 2 Oct 2009 08:41:37 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > CC: wallacem7-at-aol.com=3B fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech=2C and tech drawings > > the older 360s seemed to not have the issues of loosening bolts > that the newer ones do... my '77 didn't have the same issues > that the '81 did... I've only played briefly with my '89 and '91=2C > and they seemed to be ok too... maybe it's just an early '80's issue=2C > which makes sense... or maybe late 70s to mid 80s??? quality is > certainly a factor... > > either way=2C if I was forced to have an AMC V8 in my jeep=2C I would > ask for the 304. there is a mid-70s J10 running around here with > a 304 and the guy claims really decent mileage... of course > he does have a drinking problem=2C but hey=2C one has to have an AMC > delusional dream to go with... =3B) > > > why can't they make a smallish sized 4x4=2C 4 seater with a Diesel=2C > well=2C let me rephrase that... why don't WE=2C the US=2C have access > to such? > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish=2C Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust=2C they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=3D283461 http://creationwiki.org > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri=2C 2 Oct 2009=2C Michel Balea wrote: > > # Very nice bits of information. We need to gather those memorabilia piec= es. > # > # I like the reversed CAD..... > # > # The funny part is that the 74 exhaust manifold is still tight w 346xxxm= iles... > # and I have never touched it since I bought it in 1983. The trany is sti= ll > # tight=2C except the o-ring at the modulator. And the intake manifold ru= bber > # gasket are starting to get wet=2C I know that i need to use RTV next ti= me. > # > # Michel > # > # > #> To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > #> Subject: fsj: 360 manifold tech=2C and tech drawings > #> Date: Fri=2C 2 Oct 2009 00:10:11 -0400 > #> From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > #> > #> If you live with a 360 for any period of time the exhaust manifolds do > # loosen up...but it's a phase that we go through. (not entirely unlike t= he > # phase where we don't realize that one of the front cover bolts goes int= o an > # oil galley and we can't figure out why we always have an oil leak near = the oil > # pump) Another phase is fighting with the rear window...I have a pretty = good > # fix that eliminates the stupid clips on that as well more on that later= . > #> > #> Anyway here is my experience and what I have actually had a lot of suc= cess > # with. What I was told once is that the origional hollow bolts are only = hollow > # in case you need to drill them out. I actually managed to break off a s= crew > # extractor in one some years back. What I eventually did was pull the he= ad=2C > # drill a bunch of the metal around the bolt away=2C? weld up the hole wi= th a MIG > # welder and then re-drill and re-tap the hole=2C but that is neither her= e nor > # there. I have used Fel-Pro Gaskets for years with good results. No RTV = or > # anything.? So fast forward to the last time I had the heads off the Wag= I was > # going to pay an arm and a leg for the proper OEM bolts and the guy at t= he AMC > # place (who was rude to me on the phone) told me that i didn't need the = hollow > # bolts. Now=2C the head/ exhaust manifold is too hot for thread-locker t= o survive > # (I am a heavy user of thread locker) so I did what we did at Chrysler t= o keep > # bolts from backing out...I buggered up the threads before I ran the bol= ts in. > # I can't recall if I crimped a section in the vice=2C hit them with a ba= ll been > # hammer=2C or just crimped them with vice grips=2C but I did it up the t= hreads a > # little ways so that the bolts would start easily. Well they don't back = out > # anymore. Another thing that I did was I used the Eastwood exhaust manif= old > # paint...sandblasted the manifolds=2C painted it on with a brush...it lo= oks > # terrible until you run the engine and bake it=2C and then it looks good= =2C and it > # looks good for a long time. So try buggering up the threads on the exha= ust > # manifold bolts...the torque spec is really low on those. I have hardwar= e store > # grade 8 fasteners in there right now without problem. > #> > #> As far as CAD tech drawings I think the best you will do is get frame > # locations from the factory service manual. When I worked at Chrysler I = worked > # in the old AMC building in Detroit and there were still a handfull of A= MC > # oldtimers some of whom gave me some really great stuff because they fel= t that > # I was carrying the torch for their life's work. I have an assembly manu= al for > # the plant circa about 1985. I asked about other stuff and much of it wa= sn't > # accessable or people didn't know where it was. The Wag and J-trucks wou= ld have > # been designed in Toledo in the late 50's/early 60's and all those guys = had > # retired. Frame was updated in 73 and nobody I knew was there for that e= ither. > # I only worked with one guy who was in the automotive industry in the > # 1960's...he had some awesome stories and remains a friend to this day. = (he's > # retired now) I think your best bet is to get a good J-truck and measure= it. > # That's what they did to get the XJ into CAD. (XJ was designed on the bo= ard by > # old school draftsmen) > #> > #> Mark Wallace > #> 81 Wag? > # > # _________________________________________________________________ > # Hotmail. has ever-growing storage! Don=12t worry about storage limits. > # http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_= Tutorial > # _Storage_062009 > # =0A= _________________________________________________________________=0A= Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.=0A= http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 19:31:26 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings When I put the 304 into my J4000, all the manifold bolts were tight (I broke the studs on the 304 and just used the 360 manifolds when I put my motor in. I cut the pipe near the Y and reattached it with a pipe joiner) As for the bolt that leaks by the oil pump, I put a neoprene o ring on mine. No leaks in 4 years except the valve covers weeping. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: 360 manifold tech, and tech drawings > Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 00:10:11 -0400 > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > If you live with a 360 for any period of time the exhaust manifolds do loosen up...but it's a phase that we go through. (not entirely unlike the phase where we don't realize that one of the front cover bolts goes into an oil galley and we can't figure out why we always have an oil leak near the oil pump) Another phase is fighting with the rear window...I have a pretty good fix that eliminates the stupid clips on that as well more on that later. > > Anyway here is my experience and what I have actually had a lot of success with. What I was told once is that the origional hollow bolts are only hollow in case you need to drill them out. I actually managed to break off a screw extractor in one some years back. What I eventually did was pull the head, drill a bunch of the metal around the bolt away,? weld up the hole with a MIG welder and then re-drill and re-tap the hole, but that is neither here nor there. I have used Fel-Pro Gaskets for years with good results. No RTV or anything.? So fast forward to the last time I had the heads off the Wag I was going to pay an arm and a leg for the proper OEM bolts and the guy at the AMC place (who was rude to me on the phone) told me that i didn't need the hollow bolts. Now, the head/ exhaust manifold is too hot for thread-locker to survive (I am a heavy user of thread locker) so I did what we did at Chrysler to keep bolts from backing out...I buggered up the threads before I ran the bolts in. I can't recall if I crimped a section in the vice, hit them with a ball been hammer, or just crimped them with vice grips, but I did it up the threads a little ways so that the bolts would start easily. Well they don't back out anymore. Another thing that I did was I used the Eastwood exhaust manifold paint...sandblasted the manifolds, painted it on with a brush...it looks terrible until you run the engine and bake it, and then it looks good, and it looks good for a long time. So try buggering up the threads on the exhaust manifold bolts...the torque spec is really low on those. I have hardware store grade 8 fasteners in there right now without problem. > > As far as CAD tech drawings I think the best you will do is get frame locations from the factory service manual. When I worked at Chrysler I worked in the old AMC building in Detroit and there were still a handfull of AMC oldtimers some of whom gave me some really great stuff because they felt that I was carrying the torch for their life's work. I have an assembly manual for the plant circa about 1985. I asked about other stuff and much of it wasn't accessable or people didn't know where it was. The Wag and J-trucks would have been designed in Toledo in the late 50's/early 60's and all those guys had retired. Frame was updated in 73 and nobody I knew was there for that either. I only worked with one guy who was in the automotive industry in the 1960's...he had some awesome stories and remains a friend to this day. (he's retired now) I think your best bet is to get a good J-truck and measure it. That's what they did to get the XJ into CAD. (XJ was designed on the board by old school draftsmen) > > Mark Wallace > 81 Wag? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3440 **************************