From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 22 19:43:23 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, June 23 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3593 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question fsj: RE: measurement request and lift question Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question fsj: Re: John - look out and start saving...... fsj: Re: John - look out and start saving...... RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question Fw: fsj: measurement request and lift question RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question fsj: OT: 2011 Grand Cherokee FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:04:46 -0600 From: Troy Phagan Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question On 6/19/2010 8:19 PM, fsj-digest wrote: > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:19:21 -0400 > From:wallacem7-at-aol.com > Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question > Mark, I did BJ's 6" lift. But, my Wag is at home (while I am at work), and currently sits on 285's. I am not sure if any of my measurements will be helpful to you. My "six" inch lift was more like 8 physical inches in the real world, due to 'wag sag' of the original springs. Did you swap any other driveline, like Tcase? I took out a NP229 and put in a NP208. That alone would be a difference for the rear DS. Do you have the body on yet? Are the wheels / hubs centered in the wheel wells? Is the wheel base correct? We routinely do 4" lift kits on fullsize trucks without any driveshaft modifications. Of course, imports and Wranglers are a different story. If there is anything else we can help with, please let me know. Troy. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:27:30 -0700 From: "T. Michael Basciano" Subject: fsj: RE: measurement request and lift question Mark, I just installed a BJ's 4" spring lift kit on my 1990 GW last week. When I had the vehicle on the lift and all the weight was off of the springs, there was some slight binding when I turned the front drive shaft by hand. However, keeping all the bolts loose and then lowering the truck down on the ground to compress everything and then tightening all the bolts, I didn't have any issues at all with the drive shaft/shafts... In fact, the only modification that I have had to make was to make a new exhaust pipe hanger for the one that's closer to the gas tank... Other than that, no issues... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of wallacem7-at-aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 7:19 PM To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question One step forward and two steps back. Got my fuel lines all in and correct per pictures from Michel, Torqued my leaf spring bolts down, torqued my U-bolts down, got all my brake line leakage taken care of, bled out my brakes, replaced my rubber fuel hoses and then attempted to put my driveshaft back in only to find that it is too short. Has anybody else done a three inch or more spring lift and found that the driveshaft was too short afterword? I measured everything to make sure I don't have the springs in backward (they appear to be in correctly) measured the old springs and then the new springs and even used my high school geometry to calculate how much difference on driveshaft length that the Pythagorean theorem should give me (about half an inch) As it is it appears that I am about half an inch short at full extension, and the new springs didn't compress much when I lowered the Jeep onto them. Has anybody else seen this? Also for those of you who are parting J-Trucks can you measure the rear driveshafts for me? Maybe that will give me a simple answer. Also can whoever is near their Wagoneer and their tape measure at the same time measure from the drip rail down to the center of the rear hub, and tell me how much lift (if any you have lift)? The other step back is that I was using one of the tires as a step to reach the engine compartment and I kicked off the dry rotted valve stem. Then I kicked off another one...to make sure I wasn't seeing things I kicked off the rest of them. Four rotted out valve stems, four flat tires and tomorrow is Sunday. Mark 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0000 From: wallacem7-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question I am measuring exactly 110 for my wheelbase. Book says it should be 108.7. Wheels look centered in the opening...at least on the passenger side. The drivers side is all rusted away. That's a job for another day and another bottle of argon. Visually it looks like about five inches of lift, but there is no gas tank and no interior for weight. I used the same t-case... That never even came out... I have a 229. Is the 208 a shorter case? Maybe finding a driveshaft from a 208 Wag is my answer? I called both Rough Country and Rocky Mtn Suspension and this wasn't one that they had seen any serious fallout on. Should I just go to the salvage yard with my tape measure or is a 208 equipped wag driveshaft one to two inches longer? Mark 81 Wag - ------Original Message------ From: Troy Phagan Sender: Troy Phagan To: fsj-at-digest.net To: wallacem7-at-aol.com ReplyTo: tsp-at-crptruck.com Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question Sent: Jun 21, 2010 10:04 AM On 6/19/2010 8:19 PM, fsj-digest wrote: > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:19:21 -0400 > From:wallacem7-at-aol.com > Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question > Mark, I did BJ's 6" lift. But, my Wag is at home (while I am at work), and currently sits on 285's. I am not sure if any of my measurements will be helpful to you. My "six" inch lift was more like 8 physical inches in the real world, due to 'wag sag' of the original springs. Did you swap any other driveline, like Tcase? I took out a NP229 and put in a NP208. That alone would be a difference for the rear DS. Do you have the body on yet? Are the wheels / hubs centered in the wheel wells? Is the wheel base correct? We routinely do 4" lift kits on fullsize trucks without any driveshaft modifications. Of course, imports and Wranglers are a different story. If there is anything else we can help with, please let me know. Troy. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:19:18 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question Driveshat for a 208 equipped rig is usually 5" longer. V8 and 6 cyl shafts are different too. You could check other brand driveshafts as well, but make sure they have regular ujoints as custom crossovers are expensive! > To: tsp-at-crptruck.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0000 > > I am measuring exactly 110 for my wheelbase. Book says it should be 108.7. Wheels look centered in the opening...at least on the passenger side. The drivers side is all rusted away. That's a job for another day and another bottle of argon. > > Visually it looks like about five inches of lift, but there is no gas tank and no interior for weight. > > I used the same t-case... That never even came out... I have a 229. Is the 208 a shorter case? Maybe finding a driveshaft from a 208 Wag is my answer? > > I called both Rough Country and Rocky Mtn Suspension and this wasn't one that they had seen any serious fallout on. > > Should I just go to the salvage yard with my tape measure or is a 208 equipped wag driveshaft one to two inches longer? > > Mark > 81 Wag > > ------Original Message------ > From: Troy Phagan > Sender: Troy Phagan > To: fsj-at-digest.net > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > ReplyTo: tsp-at-crptruck.com > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question > Sent: Jun 21, 2010 10:04 AM > > On 6/19/2010 8:19 PM, fsj-digest wrote: > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:19:21 -0400 > > From:wallacem7-at-aol.com > > Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question > > > Mark, > > I did BJ's 6" lift. But, my Wag is at home (while I am at work), and > currently sits on 285's. I am not sure if any of my measurements will > be helpful to you. > > My "six" inch lift was more like 8 physical inches in the real world, > due to 'wag sag' of the original springs. > > Did you swap any other driveline, like Tcase? I took out a NP229 and > put in a NP208. That alone would be a difference for the rear DS. > Do you have the body on yet? Are the wheels / hubs centered in the > wheel wells? Is the wheel base correct? > > We routinely do 4" lift kits on fullsize trucks without any driveshaft > modifications. Of course, imports and Wranglers are a different story. > > If there is anything else we can help with, please let me know. > > Troy. > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID2832 6::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 15:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: diesel john Subject: fsj: Re: John - look out and start saving...... if this thing comes with a Diesel I may do something I've never done before... buy a new vehicle. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 21 Jun 2010, Edward Pomeroy wrote: # http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/21/report-jeep-eyeing-entry-level-pickup-market/?icid=main|main|dl4|link6|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.com%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2Freport-jeep-eyeing-entry-level-pickup-market%2F ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:47:43 -0400 From: "Neal Hoover" Subject: fsj: Re: John - look out and start saving...... i feel like we're being devilishly tortured by the media types once again! they just need to put the NuKizer into production and be done with it!!! Neal A. Hoover Project '76 J-10 Project '96 XJ http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj - ----- Original Message ----- From: "diesel john" To: "Edward Pomeroy" Cc: "full size jeep list" ; "xj-list" ; "diesel-benz list" ; ; "Colucci B" ; "brian ohara" ; "Mac" ; "David Ashby" ; "grhubert" ; "greg weigand" ; "Ronald Fuka" ; "Kevin Pekarek" ; "Mark Camper" ; "Michael Lacher" ; "lasikeyes" ; "Wes Molsberry" Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 6:54 PM Subject: fsj: Re: John - look out and start saving...... > if this thing comes with a Diesel I may do something I've > never done before... > > buy a new vehicle. > > john > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 21 Jun 2010, Edward Pomeroy wrote: > > # > http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/21/report-jeep-eyeing-entry-level-pickup-market/?icid=main|main|dl4|link6|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autoblog.com%2F2010%2F06%2F21%2Freport-jeep-eyeing-entry-level-pickup-market%2F ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 04:37:12 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question so, it looks like you mounted those springs backward..... no books or notes at the moment.... off-road and off-home. I took a peak at the standard lift 85 and yes the rear springs the front part is shorter than the rear facing side. As for rough and country they are known to be a bit harsh and may not compress even w a full tank the 2 FSJ with 401s that I found 3 weeks ago on a deserted forest road have been vandalized.... all glass broken.... :-( Michel > To: tsp-at-crptruck.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0000 > > I am measuring exactly 110 for my wheelbase. Book says it should be 108.7. Wheels look centered in the opening...at least on the passenger side. The drivers side is all rusted away. That's a job for another day and another bottle of argon. > > Visually it looks like about five inches of lift, but there is no gas tank and no interior for weight. > > I used the same t-case... That never even came out... I have a 229. Is the 208 a shorter case? Maybe finding a driveshaft from a 208 Wag is my answer? > > I called both Rough Country and Rocky Mtn Suspension and this wasn't one that they had seen any serious fallout on. > > Should I just go to the salvage yard with my tape measure or is a 208 equipped wag driveshaft one to two inches longer? > > Mark > 81 Wag > > ------Original Message------ > From: Troy Phagan > Sender: Troy Phagan > To: fsj-at-digest.net > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > ReplyTo: tsp-at-crptruck.com > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question > Sent: Jun 21, 2010 10:04 AM > > On 6/19/2010 8:19 PM, fsj-digest wrote: > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:19:21 -0400 > > From:wallacem7-at-aol.com > > Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question > > > Mark, > > I did BJ's 6" lift. But, my Wag is at home (while I am at work), and > currently sits on 285's. I am not sure if any of my measurements will > be helpful to you. > > My "six" inch lift was more like 8 physical inches in the real world, > due to 'wag sag' of the original springs. > > Did you swap any other driveline, like Tcase? I took out a NP229 and > put in a NP208. That alone would be a difference for the rear DS. > Do you have the body on yet? Are the wheels / hubs centered in the > wheel wells? Is the wheel base correct? > > We routinely do 4" lift kits on fullsize trucks without any driveshaft > modifications. Of course, imports and Wranglers are a different story. > > If there is anything else we can help with, please let me know. > > Troy. > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID2832 6::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:06:51 +0000 From: wallacem7-at-aol.com Subject: Fw: fsj: measurement request and lift question Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - -----Original Message----- From: wallacem7-at-aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:05:55 To: Michel Balea; fsj digest Reply-To: wallacem7-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question I measured the difference should the springs have been in backward and it's like a five inch difference. That I think I would have noticed that. I'll be going yard scrounging later this week for a driveshaft. I got the rough countrys for two reasons...I wanted to be sprung stiff to pull a trailer and the other was I didn't have to change the pitman arm. I'd have half a mind to go out to the forest with the cherry picker and pull those 401s. They are getting hard to find. They also have forged guts so they can be built with big compression. Mark 81 wag - almost back together Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry - -----Original Message----- From: Michel Balea Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 04:37:12 To: Mark Wallace; ; fsj digest Subject: RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question so, it looks like you mounted those springs backward..... no books or notes at the moment.... off-road and off-home. I took a peak at the standard lift 85 and yes the rear springs the front part is shorter than the rear facing side. As for rough and country they are known to be a bit harsh and may not compress even w a full tank the 2 FSJ with 401s that I found 3 weeks ago on a deserted forest road have been vandalized.... all glass broken.... :-( Michel > To: tsp-at-crptruck.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0000 > > I am measuring exactly 110 for my wheelbase. Book says it should be 108.7. Wheels look centered in the opening...at least on the passenger side. The drivers side is all rusted away. That's a job for another day and another bottle of argon. > > Visually it looks like about five inches of lift, but there is no gas tank and no interior for weight. > > I used the same t-case... That never even came out... I have a 229. Is the 208 a shorter case? Maybe finding a driveshaft from a 208 Wag is my answer? > > I called both Rough Country and Rocky Mtn Suspension and this wasn't one that they had seen any serious fallout on. > > Should I just go to the salvage yard with my tape measure or is a 208 equipped wag driveshaft one to two inches longer? > > Mark > 81 Wag > > ------Original Message------ > From: Troy Phagan > Sender: Troy Phagan > To: fsj-at-digest.net > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > ReplyTo: tsp-at-crptruck.com > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question > Sent: Jun 21, 2010 10:04 AM > > On 6/19/2010 8:19 PM, fsj-digest wrote: > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:19:21 -0400 > > From:wallacem7-at-aol.com > > Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question > > > Mark, > > I did BJ's 6" lift. But, my Wag is at home (while I am at work), and > currently sits on 285's. I am not sure if any of my measurements will > be helpful to you. > > My "six" inch lift was more like 8 physical inches in the real world, > due to 'wag sag' of the original springs. > > Did you swap any other driveline, like Tcase? I took out a NP229 and > put in a NP208. That alone would be a difference for the rear DS. > Do you have the body on yet? Are the wheels / hubs centered in the > wheel wells? Is the wheel base correct? > > We routinely do 4" lift kits on fullsize trucks without any driveshaft > modifications. Of course, imports and Wranglers are a different story. > > If there is anything else we can help with, please let me know. > > Troy. > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 22:18:45 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: measurement request and lift question that's a very likely possibility... I was able to extend the wheelbase of my cj-10a by flipping the GW rear springs around... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 22 Jun 2010, Michel Balea wrote: # so, it looks like you mounted those springs backward..... no books or notes at # the moment.... off-road and off-home. I took a peak at the standard lift 85 # and yes the rear springs the front part is shorter than the rear facing side. # As for rough and country they are known to be a bit harsh and may not compress # even w a full tank # # the 2 FSJ with 401s that I found 3 weeks ago on a deserted forest road have # been vandalized.... all glass broken.... :-( # Michel # # # > To: tsp-at-crptruck.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question # > From: wallacem7-at-aol.com # > Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:17:20 +0000 # > # > I am measuring exactly 110 for my wheelbase. Book says it should be 108.7. # Wheels look centered in the opening...at least on the passenger side. The # drivers side is all rusted away. That's a job for another day and another # bottle of argon. # > # > Visually it looks like about five inches of lift, but there is no gas tank # and no interior for weight. # > # > I used the same t-case... That never even came out... I have a 229. Is the # 208 a shorter case? Maybe finding a driveshaft from a 208 Wag is my answer? # > # > I called both Rough Country and Rocky Mtn Suspension and this wasn't one # that they had seen any serious fallout on. # > # > Should I just go to the salvage yard with my tape measure or is a 208 # equipped wag driveshaft one to two inches longer? # > # > Mark # > 81 Wag # > # > ------Original Message------ # > From: Troy Phagan # > Sender: Troy Phagan # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com # > ReplyTo: tsp-at-crptruck.com # > Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question # > Sent: Jun 21, 2010 10:04 AM # > # > On 6/19/2010 8:19 PM, fsj-digest wrote: # > > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:19:21 -0400 # > > From:wallacem7-at-aol.com # > > Subject: fsj: measurement request and lift question # > > # > Mark, # > # > I did BJ's 6" lift. But, my Wag is at home (while I am at work), and # > currently sits on 285's. I am not sure if any of my measurements will # > be helpful to you. # > # > My "six" inch lift was more like 8 physical inches in the real world, # > due to 'wag sag' of the original springs. # > # > Did you swap any other driveline, like Tcase? I took out a NP229 and # > put in a NP208. That alone would be a difference for the rear DS. # > Do you have the body on yet? Are the wheels / hubs centered in the # > wheel wells? Is the wheel base correct? # > # > We routinely do 4" lift kits on fullsize trucks without any driveshaft # > modifications. Of course, imports and Wranglers are a different story. # > # > If there is anything else we can help with, please let me know. # > # > Troy. # > # > # > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry # # _________________________________________________________________ # The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with # Hotmail. # http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID2832 # 6::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 00:09:07 -0500 From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: measurement request and lift question On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 23:37, Michel Balea wrote: > the 2 FSJ with 401s that I found 3 weeks ago on a deserted forest road have > been vandalized.... all glass broken.... :-( I know where you can find two more FSJs with 401s. ;) They're both for sale! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 21:31:41 -0500 From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: OT: 2011 Grand Cherokee http://youtube.com/watch?v=H_N0CctVH2I I'm still wary of an air suspension system... They tend to fail after 10yrs, and then they're expensive to replace. However, it does look like a really nice range of options for the lift -- and I'm not sure, but it sounds like it's automatic-but-overrideable (at least at slower speeds), which I love. I don't think it looks as nice as the WJ, but it's not bad, and I like it better than the WK. Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like the rest of the SUVs out there -- including the windows getting smaller. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3593 **************************