From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Sep 2 20:08:45 2010 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, September 3 2010 Volume 01 : Number 3625 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: FYI: "OEM" exhaust manifolds Re: fsj: Re: FYI: "OEM" exhaust manifolds Re: fsj: 360 Mileage FW: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] Re: FW: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] RE: fsj: "OEM" exhaust manifolds RE: fsj: 360 Mileage RE: fsj: 360 Mileage RE: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] RE: fsj: exhaust detail RE: fsj: exhaust detail fsj: Tranny install hints FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 19:22:14 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FYI: "OEM" exhaust manifolds They only seem to crack in certain circumstances. Clogged cat making them go almost white hot. Broken motor mounts or exhaust system swinging by the rear hanger only. Extreme abuse or people dumping them into water (like a stream crossing) when really hot. From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FYI: "OEM" exhaust manifolds I have seen the stock manifolds burn through and crack. Because you already have the headers just use them. :) - - ------Original Message------ Sent: Sep 1, 2010 03:44 aaahhh... so, it's the left side that collects near the middle, and the RHS that collects near the rear. those things sure collect VERY close to the ports of the motor! in all reality, i'm definitely not up for dumping a few hundred bones on OEM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:51:34 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FYI: "OEM" exhaust manifolds or having the plugs finger tight and having a few "misses"... :) On 9/1/2010 7:22 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > They only seem to crack in certain circumstances. Clogged cat making them go > almost white hot. Broken motor mounts or exhaust system swinging by the rear > hanger only. Extreme abuse or people dumping them into water (like a stream > crossing) when really hot. > > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FYI: "OEM" exhaust manifolds > > I have seen the stock manifolds burn through and crack. Because you already > have the headers just use them. :) > - ------Original Message------ > > Sent: Sep 1, 2010 03:44 > > aaahhh... so, it's the left side that collects near the middle, and the RHS > that collects near the rear. > those things sure collect VERY close to the ports of the motor! > > in all reality, i'm definitely not up for dumping a few hundred bones on OEM > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:59:09 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: 360 Mileage my best runs are usually from Seattle to Spokane/Couer d' Alene... but running from Spokane to Portland follows the Columbia River through the largest desert in North America, a nice flat run so yes, would make sense you'd get great mileage. It's only a few feet above sea level, dry and if you got lucky you had a tail wind. :) john On 8/31/2010 8:53 PM, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: > The two best things to happen to cars over the last 20 years are fuel > injection and overdrive. Better aerodynamics haven't hurt things either. The > 360 is really a piece of technology from back when Richard Nixon was in the > Oval Office and Richard Petty was Nascar's biggest star. Comparing a 360 to a > 4.7 is like comparing current popular culture to Lawrence Welk or for that > matter comparing a 360 to an engine from the 1930's. Those two engines just > have fundamentally different characters as they were designed for different > times. Carbureted low compression spark ignition engines are dreadfully > primitive. (do I need 9/16 inch rock or 5/8 inch rock?) > > I see mid 13 MPGs if I stay out of the loud pedal on the highway. Strictly > city I think I see maybe 7. I think the Carter AFB does a little better than > the Holley square bore did. I still have the Ford distributor (Duraspark II?) > run an MSD coil and MSD 8mm wires. I'll buy the good caps and roters that have > brass contacts. I have seen significantly better mileage on two occasions > over the last 20 years. The first of which was coming out of Couer D' Alene > Idaho through Walla Walla, Washington headed to Portland OR and I recall that > that was a very long downhill. (help me out John is my memory correct?) the > other time I was pulling a trailer and running like a bucket of bolts through > a heat spell with the heater on unable to keep the engine cool, but I had to > make a job interview. As it turns out I was losing my fuel pump and I ended up > burning a few valves. > > With 3:31 gear and stock tire size I think I am turning about 3200 RPM at > highway speeds...1000 RPM faster than the fuel injected 318 in my Dakota turns > through it's overdrive...that one gets almost 20 MPG. I have a 2007 Chrysler > minivan for work that is about the same weight as a Wag, but you don't need to > give it gas to go down a hill. It's just that much better aerodynamically.That > only gets a tick over 20 MPG. We'll see where my mileage goes with my three > inch lift and 31 inch tires. How many of us are still driving these Full Sized > Jeeps as daily long distance commuters anyway? > > Mark > 81 Wag > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:56:29 -0600 From: Sam Harris Subject: FW: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] So sorry about that guys. I moved it to a personal account. Please accept my apologies. Sam On 08/31/10 19:54, Jim Blair wrote: I think Sam needs to turn off his autoreply to this address Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:42:03 -0700 From: sam.harris-at-oracle.com To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com Subject: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts This is an auto-reply message: I am out of the office right now. If you need assistance, please call my direct number, and dial "0", to speak with a non-technical representative, who will help you contact another engineer on my team. My direct number is: (303)272-6563 Thank you, Sam Harris - -- Sam Harris | Midrange Disk Backline | (303)272-6563 Oracle Systems Technology Service Center Email: sam.harris-at-oracle.com [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:10:56 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] no worries... not a big deal... :) we've suffered worse... sometimes from Jim. ;) On 9/1/2010 9:56 PM, Sam Harris wrote: > So sorry about that guys. I moved it to a personal account. Please > accept my apologies. > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > On 08/31/10 19:54, Jim Blair wrote: > > I think Sam needs to turn off his autoreply to this address > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:42:03 -0700 > From: sam.harris-at-oracle.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > Subject: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts > > This is an auto-reply message: > > I am out of the office right now. > If you need assistance, please call my direct number, and dial "0", to speak > > > with a non-technical representative, who will help you contact another > engineer on my team. > > > My direct number is: (303)272-6563 > > Thank you, > > Sam Harris > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Sam Harris | > Midrange Disk Backline | (303)272-6563 > > Oracle Systems Technology Service > Center > > Email: sam.harris-at-oracle.com > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg] > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 06:29:17 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: "OEM" exhaust manifolds Both manifold collect to the rear. > > > ------Original Message------ > > > From: Neal Hoover > > > Sent: Sep 1, 2010 03:44 > > > > > > aaahhh... so, it's the left side that collects near the middle, and the RHS that collects near the rear. > > > those things sure collect VERY close to the ports of the motor! > > > Neal A. Hoover ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 06:39:20 +0000 From: Michel Balea Subject: RE: fsj: 360 Mileage Best w the 74 was accross Nevada High way 50 on 2 or 3 refills and 2 years in a row...... 19.8 mpg, just keep the foot at the same level regardless or the road... which is mainly deserted. Second best Hi80 between the grapevine and SF at 18.4 mpg, same driving 65 mph. I have not been able to do any better in the last 4 years...... and it is around 14 mpg. A few engine issues, the EGR started to act up.... now it is fixed, but I need to do some gaskets overhaul as the oil is dripping from the back of the intake manifold. The 85 has been around 14 as well and with a little nursing 14.5 mpg, and 10 in town. cheers Michel > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 19:59:09 -0700 > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: 360 Mileage > > my best runs are usually from Seattle to Spokane/Couer d' Alene... but running > from Spokane to Portland follows the Columbia River through the largest desert > in North America, a nice flat run so yes, would make sense you'd get great mileage. > It's only a few feet above sea level, dry and if you got lucky you had a tail > wind. :) > > john > > On 8/31/2010 8:53 PM, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: > > The two best things to happen to cars over the last 20 years are fuel > > injection and overdrive. Better aerodynamics haven't hurt things either. The > > 360 is really a piece of technology from back when Richard Nixon was in the > > Oval Office and Richard Petty was Nascar's biggest star. Comparing a 360 to a > > 4.7 is like comparing current popular culture to Lawrence Welk or for that > > matter comparing a 360 to an engine from the 1930's. Those two engines just > > have fundamentally different characters as they were designed for different > > times. Carbureted low compression spark ignition engines are dreadfully > > primitive. (do I need 9/16 inch rock or 5/8 inch rock?) > > > > I see mid 13 MPGs if I stay out of the loud pedal on the highway. Strictly > > city I think I see maybe 7. I think the Carter AFB does a little better than > > the Holley square bore did. I still have the Ford distributor (Duraspark II?) > > run an MSD coil and MSD 8mm wires. I'll buy the good caps and roters that have > > brass contacts. I have seen significantly better mileage on two occasions > > over the last 20 years. The first of which was coming out of Couer D' Alene > > Idaho through Walla Walla, Washington headed to Portland OR and I recall that > > that was a very long downhill. (help me out John is my memory correct?) the > > other time I was pulling a trailer and running like a bucket of bolts through > > a heat spell with the heater on unable to keep the engine cool, but I had to > > make a job interview. As it turns out I was losing my fuel pump and I ended up > > burning a few valves. > > > > With 3:31 gear and stock tire size I think I am turning about 3200 RPM at > > highway speeds...1000 RPM faster than the fuel injected 318 in my Dakota turns > > through it's overdrive...that one gets almost 20 MPG. I have a 2007 Chrysler > > minivan for work that is about the same weight as a Wag, but you don't need to > > give it gas to go down a hill. It's just that much better aerodynamically.That > > only gets a tick over 20 MPG. We'll see where my mileage goes with my three > > inch lift and 31 inch tires. How many of us are still driving these Full Sized > > Jeeps as daily long distance commuters anyway? > > > > Mark > > 81 Wag > > > > > > -- > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 07:33:12 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: 360 Mileage Considering the fuel changes of the past couple years (a lot of them by adding alcohol up to 20% around here by Federal mandate) it's harder to get economy with a carb now. All the car-b-ques over the past 10 years or so seem to involve damage to systems by these changes and owners neglecting to fix them, largely due to a lack of knowledge about the damage. > From: mbalea-at-hotmail.com > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: 360 Mileage > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 06:39:20 +0000 > > Best w the 74 was accross Nevada High way 50 on 2 or 3 refills and 2 years in > a row...... 19.8 mpg, just keep the foot at the same level regardless or the > road... which is mainly deserted. Second best Hi80 between the grapevine and > SF at 18.4 mpg, same driving 65 mph. > I have not been able to do any better in the last 4 years...... and it is > around 14 mpg. A few engine issues, the EGR started to act up.... now it is > fixed, but I need to do some gaskets overhaul as the oil is dripping from the > back of the intake manifold. > The 85 has been around 14 as well and with a little nursing 14.5 mpg, and 10 > in town. > cheers > Michel > > > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 19:59:09 -0700 > > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > > To: wallacem7-at-aol.com > > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: fsj: 360 Mileage > > > > my best runs are usually from Seattle to Spokane/Couer d' Alene... but > running > > from Spokane to Portland follows the Columbia River through the largest > desert > > in North America, a nice flat run so yes, would make sense you'd get great > mileage. > > It's only a few feet above sea level, dry and if you got lucky you had a > tail > > wind. :) > > > > john > > > > On 8/31/2010 8:53 PM, wallacem7-at-aol.com wrote: > > > The two best things to happen to cars over the last 20 years are fuel > > > injection and overdrive. Better aerodynamics haven't hurt things either. > The > > > 360 is really a piece of technology from back when Richard Nixon was in > the > > > Oval Office and Richard Petty was Nascar's biggest star. Comparing a 360 > to a > > > 4.7 is like comparing current popular culture to Lawrence Welk or for > that > > > matter comparing a 360 to an engine from the 1930's. Those two engines > just > > > have fundamentally different characters as they were designed for > different > > > times. Carbureted low compression spark ignition engines are dreadfully > > > primitive. (do I need 9/16 inch rock or 5/8 inch rock?) > > > > > > I see mid 13 MPGs if I stay out of the loud pedal on the highway. > Strictly > > > city I think I see maybe 7. I think the Carter AFB does a little better > than > > > the Holley square bore did. I still have the Ford distributor (Duraspark > II?) > > > run an MSD coil and MSD 8mm wires. I'll buy the good caps and roters that > have > > > brass contacts. I have seen significantly better mileage on two > occasions > > > over the last 20 years. The first of which was coming out of Couer D' > Alene > > > Idaho through Walla Walla, Washington headed to Portland OR and I recall > that > > > that was a very long downhill. (help me out John is my memory correct?) > the > > > other time I was pulling a trailer and running like a bucket of bolts > through > > > a heat spell with the heater on unable to keep the engine cool, but I had > to > > > make a job interview. As it turns out I was losing my fuel pump and I > ended up > > > burning a few valves. > > > > > > With 3:31 gear and stock tire size I think I am turning about 3200 RPM at > > > highway speeds...1000 RPM faster than the fuel injected 318 in my Dakota > turns > > > through it's overdrive...that one gets almost 20 MPG. I have a 2007 > Chrysler > > > minivan for work that is about the same weight as a Wag, but you don't > need to > > > give it gas to go down a hill. It's just that much better > aerodynamically.That > > > only gets a tick over 20 MPG. We'll see where my mileage goes with my > three > > > inch lift and 31 inch tires. How many of us are still driving these Full > Sized > > > Jeeps as daily long distance commuters anyway? > > > > > > Mark > > > 81 Wag > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 15:08:47 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] At least no fuses were harmed! ;) > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:10:56 -0700 > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > To: sharris223-at-live.com > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: FW: [Fwd: Re: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts] > > no worries... not a big deal... :) we've suffered worse... sometimes from Jim. ;) > > On 9/1/2010 9:56 PM, Sam Harris wrote: > > So sorry about that guys. I moved it to a personal account. Please > > accept my apologies. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 08/31/10 19:54, Jim Blair wrote: > > > > I think Sam needs to turn off his autoreply to this address > > > > > > > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:42:03 -0700 > > From: sam.harris-at-oracle.com > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > > Subject: Auto Reply: RE: fsj: Headers and Dual Exhausts > > > > This is an auto-reply message: > > > > I am out of the office right now. > > If you need assistance, please call my direct number, and dial "0", to speak > > > > > > with a non-technical representative, who will help you contact another > > engineer on my team. > > > > > > My direct number is: (303)272-6563 > > > > Thank you, > > > > Sam Harris > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sam Harris | > > Midrange Disk Backline | (303)272-6563 > > > > Oracle Systems Technology Service > > Center > > > > Email: sam.harris-at-oracle.com > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif] > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/jpeg] > > > > > > -- > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 15:30:17 -0700 (PDT) From: JeepNut Subject: RE: fsj: exhaust detail The difference is a welded on bung for the exhaust hanger by the tranny. OReilly's has it. Autozone's doesn't. Definately worth $30 to keep from having a broken manifolds or leaky exhaust because it isn't supported well. Proving once again that what's obvious to me, isn't always all there is to the story... I relearn that all the time it seems... JeepNut - --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Jim Blair wrote: > From: Jim Blair > Subject: RE: fsj: exhaust detail > To: "local Jeep list" > Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 1:02 AM > It's not coming out of my pocket, but > most of those pipes come from the same > place now so there isn't much difference. > > > From: JeepNut > Subject: fsj: exhaust detail > > OK so I'm seeing AutoZone Maremont exhaust Y pipes for > $109. > But the OReilly Wagner Y pipe is $144. > I wonder what the difference is in a bent pipe. Can > only imagine 2 things. > > 1. The pipe gauge or wall thickness. > 2. The quality of the weld at the connection for the left > pipe. > > Neither dealer can tell me what their mfg. spec is for the > wall thickness. > But I know Autozone parts can be wishy washy, I've been > buying them for years. > > Wondering in this case tho, why should I pay more at > O'Reilly or anywhere else > for a pipe? Anyone? > > (with apologies to Jim...for most stuff I do get at NAPA > but in this case, > heck, it's just a pipe...) > > JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:23:34 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: exhaust detail That would make sense Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 - ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 15:30:17 -0700 > From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com > Subject: RE: fsj: exhaust detail > To: fsj-at-digest.net > CC: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > > The difference is a welded on bung for the exhaust hanger by the tranny. OReilly's has it. Autozone's doesn't. > Definately worth $30 to keep from having a broken manifolds or leaky exhaust because it isn't supported well. > > Proving once again that what's obvious to me, isn't always all there is to the story... I relearn that all the time it seems... > > JeepNut > > > --- On Tue, 8/31/10, Jim Blair wrote: > > > From: Jim Blair > > Subject: RE: fsj: exhaust detail > > To: "local Jeep list" > > Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 1:02 AM > > It's not coming out of my pocket, but > > most of those pipes come from the same > > place now so there isn't much difference. > > > > > > From: JeepNut > > Subject: fsj: exhaust detail > > > > OK so I'm seeing AutoZone Maremont exhaust Y pipes for > > $109. > > But the OReilly Wagner Y pipe is $144. > > I wonder what the difference is in a bent pipe. Can > > only imagine 2 things. > > > > 1. The pipe gauge or wall thickness. > > 2. The quality of the weld at the connection for the left > > pipe. > > > > Neither dealer can tell me what their mfg. spec is for the > > wall thickness. > > But I know Autozone parts can be wishy washy, I've been > > buying them for years. > > > > Wondering in this case tho, why should I pay more at > > O'Reilly or anywhere else > > for a pipe? Anyone? > > > > (with apologies to Jim...for most stuff I do get at NAPA > > but in this case, > > heck, it's just a pipe...) > > > > JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 20:03:59 -0700 (PDT) From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Tranny install hints I forgot where all the tech stuff moved. wagoneers.com is closed right John? Tech pages showing up blank anyway... Need tranny install tips as my holiday weekend is on in less than an hour here in the Eastern time zone... lol. Something about a three click rule when installing the torque converter right? JeepNut - ---------------------------------------------------------- '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3625 **************************