From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jan 1 21:19:10 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, January 2 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3674 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: totally OT Re: fsj: totally OT fsj: [db] Fw: spider spike install question (fwd) RE: fsj: totally OT Re: fsj: spider spikes question Re: fsj: totally OT FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 21:46:06 -0600 From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: totally OT On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 21:11, JeepNut wrote: > Oh this thing is a regular uberfancy machine (read unnecessarily complicated > to fix). To me at least - lol Has this ridiculous pass side gets one > temp/driver gets another temp stuff in it. You've GOT to be > kidding....TOTALLY not necessary IMHO. But then neither is a light that says > the door is ajar. If you're dumb enough to fall out the door of a moving > vehicle, it may be mother nature trying to cleanse the gene pool. > No offense to anyone who's ever fallen out of a moving vehicle. > Actually one of my grandkids did almost fall out of his mom's car. > There's the value of an idiot light. Aptly named in her case. I can kinda see it for doors that don't shut completely very easily, so you might not realize it's not closed. My dad's Cherokee is like that. I still can't see falling out unless you take a really hard turn without your seatbelt -- like a hard enough turn that an SUV would probably slide or roll first. But it can at least warn you so your door doesn't fly open and potentially damage itself or other things. > ANYway the passenger side of the Buick blows cold all the time, drivers side > works fine. Understand that this is controlled by separate electrical motors > that are mounted to the plenum. I've been trying desperately to figure how > how in the heck you are supposed to access the things. The passenger one is > supposed to be on top of the plenum behind the glove box, blah blah but I > can't get my hand in there to even feel the thing, much less take it off and > replace it. This probably isn't the same problem since it isn't even the same brand, but there's a problem with the WJs with very similar symptoms, which happened to mine. In fact, it's in the shop right now, getting the aftermath fixed. (Other guys did the initial fix, which worked, but they caused even more problems while they were screwing with things.) The WJ problem was with a blend door not catching correctly, so on the dual-zone systems, the driver would get warm air from the heater, while the passenger would get unheated air from outside. Even when the driver is the only person there, the heater had to run full blast to slowly get a small edge on the cold air from the other side. The solution was to replace the part with the blend door. Something like $150 and a _lot_ of work to get that far down in the dash guts. Fortunately, the replacement was redesigned to prevent reoccurrence of the problem. Here's the article on the WJ problem: http://wjjeeps.com/hvac_sub_assembly.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2011 20:07:29 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: totally OT it is indeed... btw, the Renault 2.1L TD they used in the XJ from '85-'87, is that a regular jeep manual trans or was it recased for the french connection? john On 1/1/2011 7:19 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > PS: I wrote my reply while I was waiting for my baconmaster burger to come > (ain't technology great?) > >> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 17:49:50 -0800 >> From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com >> Subject: fsj: totally OT >> To: fsj-at-digest.net >> >> This group of folks is so great. Just how great it is to be involved in > this >> and several other Jeep lists was really realized this last couple of weeks. >> >> I've had a need to visit a Buick forum due to my wife's acquisition of her >> Mom's car. Has a heat issue and I tried to get some help there. >> Didn't get much response. One guy told me he'd done the fix before, but >> recommended I purchase an Alldata subscription to help me fix it. > Wondering >> if he works for Alldata too, maybe a stock holder? >> Browsing the forum there I see that mantra repeated ad nauseum. >> Not at all like here where a dozen guys will chime in all willing to relate >> personal experience and how-to's to get things fixed. >> And CERTAINLY no online page of manuals to download. >> >> I asked a followup question that was flagged as spam ?? I even PM'd a >> moderator as the spam message link suggested and no joy there getting the >> question posted. weird. Here's what I asked on there: >> >> I found a set of Buick OEM Factory Service Manuals for this thing. $50 / 3 >> volumes, in very good condition that I can purchase. >> Alldata subscription is around $20 a year every year for as long as I need >> them. >> Seems an easy choice to me, $50once or $20 x 5-10 years? But Alldata seems > to >> be very commonly touted on the forum. >> Is there some specific advantage to Alldata over the actual GM FSMs? >> I'd need a compelling reason to spend so much more for an online >> subscription. >> >> Any opinions from the group? >> >> JeepNut >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of >> >> the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... >> >> '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. >> >> '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. >> >> '88 Grand Wagoneer >> >> - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, >> >> TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- >> >> B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, >> >> ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 >> >> 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Registered Linux user #287453 > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 20:34:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: [db] Fw: spider spike install question (fwd) fyi ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Got my answer. :) You don't mount the hubs close to the rim.. The hubs have to be mounted so they are out just past the plane of the tire if you put a straight edge across the face of the tire, so the traction device locking ring clicks in easily when you put the actual traction device on the tire. - ------Original Message------ From: Info Spikes-Spider Subject: Re: spider spike install question Sent: Jan 1, 2011 13:44 You don't mount the hubs close to the rim.. The hubs have to be mounted so they are out just past the plane of the tire if you put a straight edge across the face of the tire, so the traction device locking ring clicks in easily when you put the actual traction device on the tire. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 2:36 PM, john wrote: when mounting the steel plate to the rim, does it have to touch the rim, or can it stand off of it slightly? I'm trying to get the correct spacing but can not determine from your literature if it needs to touch the rim or not. I am using it with 5 lugs so there will be plenty of mounting support, just need to verify if it should be flat against the rim or not... preferably not, don't want to scar up my alloy wheels if I don't have to. thanx, john -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 20:36:04 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: totally OT I almost fell out of my mother's '61 Comet... we were travelling down a gravel road at night... I was leaning against the door and next thing I know I had my feet on the door sill and was hanging onto the door handle... guess my mom felt the breeze (it was quite cold outside) and stopped... that was in the day before seat belts... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, JeepNut wrote: # Oh this thing is a regular uberfancy machine (read unnecessarily complicated # to fix). To me at least - lol Has this ridiculous pass side gets one # temp/driver gets another temp stuff in it. You've GOT to be # kidding....TOTALLY not necessary IMHO. But then neither is a light that says # the door is ajar. If you're dumb enough to fall out the door of a moving # vehicle, it may be mother nature trying to cleanse the gene pool. # No offense to anyone who's ever fallen out of a moving vehicle. # Actually one of my grandkids did almost fall out of his mom's car. # There's the value of an idiot light. Aptly named in her case. # # ANYway the passenger side of the Buick blows cold all the time, drivers side # works fine. Understand that this is controlled by separate electrical motors # that are mounted to the plenum. I've been trying desperately to figure how # how in the heck you are supposed to access the things. The passenger one is # supposed to be on top of the plenum behind the glove box, blah blah but I # can't get my hand in there to even feel the thing, much less take it off and # replace it. # Lots of Buick guys talk about having had to replace the things. # But there is precious little useful info about HOW they accomplished. # I can get it out. But she won't like me leaving out bunches of unnecessary # covers and junk that I might leave out of the dash when I put it back # together. LOL I mean, I LIKE Willy's Jeeps. Spartan, functional, # workhorses, easy to work on... sorry- I keep ranting... # # So the Alldata thing is not just a certain model/year of Buick for $20? # But is it better than a FSM? # # Not a big advantage for me. I try to stay clear of GMs. Never liked 'em. # I think the wifey got this one just to tick me off. # 3 Jeeps in the driveway and she has to come home with this orphan. # # # JeepNut # ---------------------------------------------------------- # # Registered Linux user #287453 # # # --- On Sat, 1/1/11, Jim Blair wrote: # # From: Jim Blair # Subject: RE: fsj: totally OT # To: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com, fsj-at-digest.net # Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 8:39 PM # # # # # While alldata is certainly thorough, I've found other mechanic's experience # and photos to be best. # The nice thing about alldata is you aren't restricted to the one kind of # vehicle. # As for the heat issue, it's generally pretty simple to troubleshoot until # they get all computerized. Make sure you have flow through the core. Check # both hoses for heat ( if one is cold, there is either a blockage or the valve # isn't opening or the thermostat is jammed open.) # Check to see if all the vacuum motors move when you move the controls # (broken vacuum lines tend to be noisy)8! # If the hoses are hot # # > Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 17:49:50 -0800 # > From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com # > Subject: fsj: totally OT # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > This group of folks is so great. Just how great it is to be involved in # this # > and several other Jeep lists was really realized this last couple of weeks. # > # > I've had a need to visit a Buick forum due to my wife's acquisition of her # > Mom's car. Has a heat issue and I tried to get some help there. # > Didn't get much response. One guy told me he'd done the fix before, but # > recommended I purchase an Alldata subscription to help me fix it. # Wondering # > if he works for Alldata too, maybe a stock holder? # > Browsing the forum there I see that mantra repeated ad nauseum. # > Not at all like here where a dozen guys will chime in all willing to relate # > personal experience and how-to's to get things fixed. # > And CERTAINLY no online page of manuals to download. # > # > I asked a followup question that was flagged as spam ?? I even PM'd a # > moderator as the spam message link suggested and no joy there getting the # > question posted. weird. Here's what I asked on there: # > # > I found a set of Buick OEM Factory Service Manuals for this thing. $50 / 3 # > volumes, in very good condition that I can purchase. # > Alldata subscription is around $20 a year every year for as long as I need # > them. # > Seems an easy choice to me, $50once or $20 x 5-10 years? But Alldata seems # to # > be very commonly touted on the forum. # > Is there some specific advantage to Alldata over the actual GM FSMs? # > I'd need a compelling reason to spend so much more for an online # > subscription. # > # > Any opinions from the group? # > # > JeepNut # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------- # > # > '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of # > # > the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... # > # > '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. # > # > '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. # > # > '88 Grand Wagoneer # > # > - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, # > # > TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- # > # > B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, # > # > ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 # > # > 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. # > # > ---------------------------------------------------------- # > # > Registered Linux user #287453 # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 20:36:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: spider spikes question need to finish gathering hardware, close... then will need to wait for snow... might not be hard this year. ;) already had it twice now. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, JeepNut wrote: # Had never seen these. Those are pretty cool! # # I'd still like to have a set of Mattracks. Wow. # I have SOOO many more wants than I have money...lol # # JeepNut # # ---------------------------------------------------------- # # '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of # # the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... # # '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. # # '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. # # '88 Grand Wagoneer # # - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, # # TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- # # B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, # # ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 # # 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. # # ---------------------------------------------------------- # # Registered Linux user #287453 # # --- On Fri, 12/31/10, john wrote: # # From: john # Subject: fsj: spider spikes question # To: # Date: Friday, December 31, 2010, 2:19 PM # # trying to mount my spider spikes, they came without all # the hardware, have the compression nuts for the lug nuts # but the bolts are a bit too short to secure the plate. # # I picked up some longer ones and some nylon bushings to hold # the plate out... # # QUESTION, should the plate actually touch the rim or is it ok # for that locking plate to stand off of the rim? I am # using 5 bolts/5 lug nuts. # # thanx, # john # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 23:04:00 -0600 From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: totally OT Yeah, vinyl-covered bench seats with no seatbelts are one thing. Molded cloth or leather seats with seatbelts are entirely different. Though I'll admit some of today's cheap seats that feel like plastic-on-foam aren't much better. Without the seatbelt, you'd probably still slide on those. On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 22:36, john wrote: > I almost fell out of my mother's '61 Comet... we were travelling > down a gravel road at night... I was leaning against the door > and next thing I know I had my feet on the door sill and was hanging > onto the door handle... guess my mom felt the breeze (it was quite cold > outside) and stopped... that was in the day before seat belts... > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, JeepNut wrote: > > # Oh this thing is a regular uberfancy machine (read unnecessarily complicated > # to fix). To me at least - lol Has this ridiculous pass side gets one > # temp/driver gets another temp stuff in it. You've GOT to be > # kidding....TOTALLY not necessary IMHO. But then neither is a light that says > # the door is ajar. If you're dumb enough to fall out the door of a moving > # vehicle, it may be mother nature trying to cleanse the gene pool. > # No offense to anyone who's ever fallen out of a moving vehicle. > # Actually one of my grandkids did almost fall out of his mom's car. > # There's the value of an idiot light. Aptly named in her case. > # > # ANYway the passenger side of the Buick blows cold all the time, drivers side > # works fine. Understand that this is controlled by separate electrical motors > # that are mounted to the plenum. I've been trying desperately to figure how > # how in the heck you are supposed to access the things. The passenger one is > # supposed to be on top of the plenum behind the glove box, blah blah but I > # can't get my hand in there to even feel the thing, much less take it off and > # replace it. > # Lots of Buick guys talk about having had to replace the things. > # But there is precious little useful info about HOW they accomplished. > # I can get it out. But she won't like me leaving out bunches of unnecessary > # covers and junk that I might leave out of the dash when I put it back > # together. LOL I mean, I LIKE Willy's Jeeps. Spartan, functional, > # workhorses, easy to work on... sorry- I keep ranting... > # > # So the Alldata thing is not just a certain model/year of Buick for $20? > # But is it better than a FSM? > # > # Not a big advantage for me. I try to stay clear of GMs. Never liked 'em. > # I think the wifey got this one just to tick me off. > # 3 Jeeps in the driveway and she has to come home with this orphan. > # > # > # JeepNut > # ---------------------------------------------------------- > # > # Registered Linux user #287453 > # > # > # --- On Sat, 1/1/11, Jim Blair wrote: > # > # From: Jim Blair > # Subject: RE: fsj: totally OT > # To: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com, fsj-at-digest.net > # Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 8:39 PM > # > # > # > # > # While alldata is certainly thorough, I've found other mechanic's experience > # and photos to be best. > # The nice thing about alldata is you aren't restricted to the one kind of > # vehicle. > # As for the heat issue, it's generally pretty simple to troubleshoot until > # they get all computerized. Make sure you have flow through the core. Check > # both hoses for heat ( if one is cold, there is either a blockage or the valve > # isn't opening or the thermostat is jammed open.) > # Check to see if all the vacuum motors move when you move the controls > # (broken vacuum lines tend to be noisy)8! > # If the hoses are hot > # > # > Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2011 17:49:50 -0800 > # > From: thejeepnut-at-yahoo.com > # > Subject: fsj: totally OT > # > To: fsj-at-digest.net > # > > # > This group of folks is so great. Just how great it is to be involved in > # this > # > and several other Jeep lists was really realized this last couple of weeks. > # > > # > I've had a need to visit a Buick forum due to my wife's acquisition of her > # > Mom's car. Has a heat issue and I tried to get some help there. > # > Didn't get much response. One guy told me he'd done the fix before, but > # > recommended I purchase an Alldata subscription to help me fix it. > # Wondering > # > if he works for Alldata too, maybe a stock holder? > # > Browsing the forum there I see that mantra repeated ad nauseum. > # > Not at all like here where a dozen guys will chime in all willing to relate > # > personal experience and how-to's to get things fixed. > # > And CERTAINLY no online page of manuals to download. > # > > # > I asked a followup question that was flagged as spam ?? I even PM'd a > # > moderator as the spam message link suggested and no joy there getting the > # > question posted. weird. Here's what I asked on there: > # > > # > I found a set of Buick OEM Factory Service Manuals for this thing. $50 / 3 > # > volumes, in very good condition that I can purchase. > # > Alldata subscription is around $20 a year every year for as long as I need > # > them. > # > Seems an easy choice to me, $50once or $20 x 5-10 years? But Alldata seems > # to > # > be very commonly touted on the forum. > # > Is there some specific advantage to Alldata over the actual GM FSMs? > # > I'd need a compelling reason to spend so much more for an online > # > subscription. > # > > # > Any opinions from the group? > # > > # > JeepNut > # > > # > ---------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of > # > > # > the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... > # > > # > '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. > # > > # > '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. > # > > # > '88 Grand Wagoneer > # > > # > - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, > # > > # > TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- > # > > # > B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, > # > > # > ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 > # > > # > 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. > # > > # > ---------------------------------------------------------- > # > > # > Registered Linux user #287453 > # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3674 **************************