From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Jan 9 23:43:53 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 10 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3679 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD RE: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD fsj: '71 Wagoneer body in Oregon Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD fsj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 fsj: Re: xj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 fsj: '86 Cherokee Turbo Diesel... RE: fsj: '86 Cherokee Turbo Diesel... Fw: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD RE: fsj: Re: xj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 RE: fsj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 RE: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:33:22 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD I think the automatic used in the '86 jeep xj behind the 2.1L TD was the 904. Anyone able to verify that info? john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:00:52 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD Not sure as the only one I saw was a 5 speed Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Subject: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD > To: xj-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; vwdoc1-at-gmail.com > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:33:22 +0000 > > I think the automatic used in the '86 jeep xj behind the 2.1L TD was the 904. > > Anyone able to verify that info? > john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 18:58:59 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: '71 Wagoneer body in Oregon Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 From: russ hathaway To: Rambler Nash Jeep and familyAMC Subject: Re: [AMC-list] AMC books on e-bay Message-ID: <474362.56040.qm-at-web30601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I came across a 71 Cherokee; 360/AT,PS,PB,AC,AM-FM (aftermarket). No pwr door locks or windows though. The body is straight, glass and bumpers are very nice but the grille is a little wavy. He started working on it for his daughter, and put 76 axles and brakes on it with a lot of new parts. Then she decided she wanted a Mercedes. Go figure. So the truck isn't finished. I want the 360/AT and radiator and if someone has need for the body, we can go in 50/50. Its located just south of Salem. We'll tow it to my shop, yank the engine and you can have the body. He only wants $500/OBO so I figure for $200 you get a nice 71 Jeep. Tires and wheels are nice. It even has the Kaiser sticker on the truck, if that's anything. Call Russ at 503-589-9845. The engine turns and has compression, and looks good but it is sitting with no carb or plugs, so we need to jump on it before the Oregon perma-rust kicks in. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 19:21:37 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD thanx Terry... that confirms it... had another wrench friend in Chicago also confirm it, my books said the same thing... is it the stock jeep bell housing then or did they have an adapter? need to get a flex plate and tc, they should have them at the local trans shop... will call tomorrow. john On 1/9/2011 6:47 PM, T.Halmshaw wrote: > Indeed the Torqueflite 904 was the unit used. > > :) > At 10:33 AM 10/01/2011, you wrote: >> I think the automatic used in the '86 jeep xj behind the 2.1L TD was the 904. >> >> Anyone able to verify that info? >> john at http://wagoneers.com >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature >> database 5772 (20110109) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.eset.com > > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:09:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 the factory shop manual confirms that the Automatic used behind the 2.1L Turbo Diesel is a 904. From reading the R&R process it is likely the same transmission used with the 2.5L and 2.8V6. There is nothing noting any special adapters, there is this NOTE: On Diesel Models remove left motor mount and starter to gain access to the converter drive plate bolts through the starter opening. pg f-8 mr244. sounds like the engine gets in the way of the normal access... the 2.1L TD has an oil pan that dips down, has two drain plugs. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:12:21 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 does anyone know if a 904 and an AW4 can be interchanged? same bell housing pattern? starter location? how about length? I have an AW4, could wire up manual switches, or make it work properly... if I can gather the pieces needed I will likely be putting back together an '86 xj with the 2.1L TD... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sun, 9 Jan 2011, john wrote: # the factory shop manual confirms that the Automatic used # behind the 2.1L Turbo Diesel is a 904. From reading the R&R process # it is likely the same transmission used with the 2.5L and 2.8V6. # There is nothing noting any special adapters, there is this NOTE: # # On Diesel Models remove left motor mount and starter to gain access to the # converter drive plate bolts through the starter opening. pg f-8 mr244. # # sounds like the engine gets in the way of the normal access... the # 2.1L TD has an oil pan that dips down, has two drain plugs. # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:58:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: '86 Cherokee Turbo Diesel... SHOULD I PASS ON THIS PROJECT? http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ I found this '86 Cherokee 2.1L Turbo Diesel... it has a cracked bell housing to the manual transmission. Supposedly this has a new injection pump and extra parts... I'm thinking of putting the optional automatic (904) in it... if I can source the parts... however, I just got the pictures, cell phone, but good enough to see the body damage on pass side, rear bumper, torn seats (which I'd replace anyway)... but what concerns me more is the hacked up intercooler setup... why??? they had a factory intercooler setup that sat down by the front bumper and was nice and tidy and compact... with a good air filter setup... this looks like something I'd frankenstein into a logging truck... The seller has dropped the price considerably... won't go below a grand because the injection pump rebuild was $700... I found the manual transmission complete for $350... the shop she had it in claimed a new bell housing alone was $800, quoted almost $1600 to fix this... (the starter mount cracked on the bell housing). The automatic used is a 904, but I'm not sure about the bell housing setup, and if I can find a flex plate and torque converter... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ This is a Renault 2.1L all aluminum turbo Diesel... and it has a high maintenance rubber band... like every 20k... it will also leak oil like a french fry strainer, meaning o-ring replacements... the electrics are provided by the french version of the prince of darkness, paris-rhone... sometimes by bosch... maybe this will have bosch... but the french and the germans never really got together well, so I'm not sure about the arrangement. I'm confident that for around $1500 I could put this thing on the road with a manual transmission, maybe an automatic... likely spend another $300-$500 fixing the a/c, then another $300-$400 for decent seats... so I'd have $2,000-2,500 into an old Jeep with firestone tires, ratty interior, a bent rear bumper and body damage... but it would be a 4x4 that gets around 26 mpg in town... If I can find an automatic complete for less than $400 I may go for this... otherwise I should look at how I could put a TDI engine into a decent Cherokee... anyone heard anything about that? The 1.9L TDI supposedly puts out 99hp and 180 ftlbs of torque while the 2.1L Renault puts out 85 hp and 135 ftlbs... SHOULD I PASS ON THIS PROJECT? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:02:48 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: '86 Cherokee Turbo Diesel... If we knew what the trans bell was for sure, options could be considerably better. For example, the 2.5L also came with AW4 and the 2.8 (turd) was used with 700r4 in S10 Blazers. What we have here is a lack of knowledge. > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:58:58 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: > Subject: fsj: '86 Cherokee Turbo Diesel... > > SHOULD I PASS ON THIS PROJECT? > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ > > I found this '86 Cherokee 2.1L Turbo Diesel... it has > a cracked bell housing to the manual transmission. Supposedly > this has a new injection pump and extra parts... > > I'm thinking of putting the optional automatic (904) in it... > if I can source the parts... > > however, I just got the pictures, cell phone, but good enough to > see the body damage on pass side, rear bumper, torn seats (which > I'd replace anyway)... but what concerns me more is the hacked > up intercooler setup... why??? they had a factory intercooler > setup that sat down by the front bumper and was nice and tidy > and compact... with a good air filter setup... this looks like > something I'd frankenstein into a logging truck... > > The seller has dropped the price considerably... won't go below > a grand because the injection pump rebuild was $700... I found > the manual transmission complete for $350... the shop she had it > in claimed a new bell housing alone was $800, quoted almost $1600 > to fix this... (the starter mount cracked on the bell housing). > > The automatic used is a 904, but I'm not sure about the bell housing > setup, and if I can find a flex plate and torque converter... > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ > > This is a Renault 2.1L all aluminum turbo Diesel... and it has > a high maintenance rubber band... like every 20k... it will also > leak oil like a french fry strainer, meaning o-ring replacements... > the electrics are provided by the french version of the prince of > darkness, paris-rhone... sometimes by bosch... maybe this will have > bosch... but the french and the germans never really got together > well, so I'm not sure about the arrangement. > > I'm confident that for around $1500 I could put this thing on the > road with a manual transmission, maybe an automatic... likely spend > another $300-$500 fixing the a/c, then another $300-$400 for decent > seats... so I'd have $2,000-2,500 into an old Jeep with firestone > tires, ratty interior, a bent rear bumper and body damage... > > but it would be a 4x4 that gets around 26 mpg in town... > > If I can find an automatic complete for less than $400 I may > go for this... > > > otherwise I should look at how I could put > a TDI engine into a decent Cherokee... anyone heard anything about that? > > The 1.9L TDI supposedly puts out 99hp and 180 ftlbs of torque while the > 2.1L Renault puts out 85 hp and 135 ftlbs... > > > SHOULD I PASS ON THIS PROJECT? > > john > > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:06:19 +0000 From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net Subject: Fw: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD - ------Original Message------ From: Terry-au Halmshaw To: Dj Subject: Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD Sent: Jan 9, 2011 20:45 Stock bell housing, bolts straight up just like the 727. As you know the 904 and 727 are Chrysler the 904 being the worse of the two, I would not touch either given the choice. At 02:21 PM 10/01/2011, you wrote: >thanx Terry... that confirms it... had another wrench friend in >Chicago also confirm it, >my books said the same thing... > >is it the stock jeep bell housing then or did they have an adapter? > >need to get a flex plate and tc, they should have them at the local >trans shop... will call tomorrow. > >john > >On 1/9/2011 6:47 PM, T.Halmshaw wrote: >>Indeed the Torqueflite 904 was the unit used. >> >>:) >>At 10:33 AM 10/01/2011, you wrote: >>>I think the automatic used in the '86 jeep xj behind the 2.1L TD >>>was the 904. >>> >>>Anyone able to verify that info? >>>john at http://wagoneers.com >>> >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>>signature database 5772 (20110109) __________ >>> >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>>http://www.eset.com >> >> > >-- > > ----- >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >signature database 5772 (20110109) __________ > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >http://www.eset.com > > john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:09:26 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 The 904 is a solid casting with the bell, unlike the AW4 which has a removable one. The motor determines what pattern bell is needed. What we need is a good picture of the rear of the 2.1L to see if it's recognizable. Same as when I saw the SD33 pattern and noted it's similarity to the inline 6 gas motors used in 240/260/ 280z cars and L series 4 cyls. The tin plate off a Z car would determine if I'm right or not. > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:12:21 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: xj-at-digest.net > CC: fsj-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: Re: xj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 > > does anyone know if a 904 and an AW4 can be interchanged? > > same bell housing pattern? starter location? > > how about length? > > I have an AW4, could wire up manual switches, or make it > work properly... > > if I can gather the pieces needed I will likely be putting back > together an '86 xj with the 2.1L TD... > john > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sun, 9 Jan 2011, john wrote: > > # the factory shop manual confirms that the Automatic used > # behind the 2.1L Turbo Diesel is a 904. From reading the R&R process > # it is likely the same transmission used with the 2.5L and 2.8V6. > # There is nothing noting any special adapters, there is this NOTE: > # > # On Diesel Models remove left motor mount and starter to gain access to the > # converter drive plate bolts through the starter opening. pg f-8 mr244. > # > # sounds like the engine gets in the way of the normal access... the > # 2.1L TD has an oil pan that dips down, has two drain plugs. > # > # john > # > # > # ----- > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:19:21 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 Doesn't make too much sense though. The Jeep 4 cyl starter bolts to the block (like Chev, probably because the 2.8 and previously used GM 4 cyl used them) If the diesel bolts to the bell, then maybe it's the same pattern as the Audi 2.0L 904 I had in my postal jeep? > Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 21:09:12 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: fsj: '86 xj 2.1L TD - used 904 > > the factory shop manual confirms that the Automatic used > behind the 2.1L Turbo Diesel is a 904. From reading the R&R process > it is likely the same transmission used with the 2.5L and 2.8V6. > There is nothing noting any special adapters, there is this NOTE: > > On Diesel Models remove left motor mount and starter to gain access to the > converter drive plate bolts through the starter opening. pg f-8 mr244. > > sounds like the engine gets in the way of the normal access... the > 2.1L TD has an oil pan that dips down, has two drain plugs. > > john > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:11:57 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD While the main case is 904, the bell pattern was different between engines. 2.5, 2.8 are the same, but not like AMC 6 or V8. > Subject: Fw: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD > To: xj-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:06:19 +0000 > > ------Original Message------ > From: Terry-au Halmshaw > To: Dj > Subject: Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD > Sent: Jan 9, 2011 20:45 > > Stock bell housing, bolts straight up just like the 727. > > As you know the 904 and 727 are Chrysler the 904 being > the worse of the two, I would not touch either given the choice. > > > > At 02:21 PM 10/01/2011, you wrote: > >thanx Terry... that confirms it... had another wrench friend in > >Chicago also confirm it, > >my books said the same thing... > > > >is it the stock jeep bell housing then or did they have an adapter? > > > >need to get a flex plate and tc, they should have them at the local > >trans shop... will call tomorrow. > > > >john > > > >On 1/9/2011 6:47 PM, T.Halmshaw wrote: > >>Indeed the Torqueflite 904 was the unit used. > >> > >>:) > >>At 10:33 AM 10/01/2011, you wrote: > >>>I think the automatic used in the '86 jeep xj behind the 2.1L TD > >>>was the 904. > >>> > >>>Anyone able to verify that info? > >>>john at http://wagoneers.com > >>> > >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>>signature database 5772 (20110109) __________ > >>> > >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>> > >>>http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > > > >-- > > > > ----- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >signature database 5772 (20110109) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:28:30 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD If you read the excerpt I posted from the manual you'd see how they connect, also terry confirmed it's the stock case. They use these in AU as well. john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 23:11:57 To: ; ; Reply-To: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD While the main case is 904, the bell pattern was different between engines. 2.5, 2.8 are the same, but not like AMC 6 or V8. > Subject: Fw: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD > To: xj-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > From: dieseljohn-at-comcast.net > Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 07:06:19 +0000 > > ------Original Message------ > From: Terry-au Halmshaw > To: Dj > Subject: Re: fsj: Automatic trans 2.1TD > Sent: Jan 9, 2011 20:45 > > Stock bell housing, bolts straight up just like the 727. > > As you know the 904 and 727 are Chrysler the 904 being > the worse of the two, I would not touch either given the choice. > > > > At 02:21 PM 10/01/2011, you wrote: > >thanx Terry... that confirms it... had another wrench friend in > >Chicago also confirm it, > >my books said the same thing... > > > >is it the stock jeep bell housing then or did they have an adapter? > > > >need to get a flex plate and tc, they should have them at the local > >trans shop... will call tomorrow. > > > >john > > > >On 1/9/2011 6:47 PM, T.Halmshaw wrote: > >>Indeed the Torqueflite 904 was the unit used. > >> > >>:) > >>At 10:33 AM 10/01/2011, you wrote: > >>>I think the automatic used in the '86 jeep xj behind the 2.1L TD > >>>was the 904. > >>> > >>>Anyone able to verify that info? > >>>john at http://wagoneers.com > >>> > >>>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >>>signature database 5772 (20110109) __________ > >>> > >>>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > >>> > >>>http://www.eset.com > >> > >> > > > >-- > > > > ----- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > >http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > >signature database 5772 (20110109) __________ > > > >The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > >http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > john at http://wagoneers.com ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3679 **************************