From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 21 12:57:54 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, January 21 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3687 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: 1973 Wagoneer Engine swap fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? fsj: Re: [db] lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 RE: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? RE: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? RE: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 Re: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 fsj: sticky valves and rod knock fsj: MB Diesels as swap objects FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:20:33 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Re: 1973 Wagoneer Engine swap For a Mopar swap, it would need an adapter or different trans (if yours has the spacer ring between the motor and assumed auto trans, it's a Buick nailhead TH400) A 727 output shaft and "sleeve" from core from a Grand Wagoneer installed into a Dodge 727 (if a 4x4 version isnt available locally) with Dodge NP208 could be put in with the motor mount conversion kit from http://bjsoffroad.com. I was going to put a 727 with the Dodge NP208 in my '73 J4000 with the 304 I put in. (the tcase is now for sale $100, but it needs the rear yoke. I swiped it for my Ramcharger, but FSJ ones are the same) The Jeep NP208 is the wrong side for the front driveshaft on pre'80 rigs. A bellybutton SBC or big block can be installed with BJs mount kit, and either an adapter or swap the Jeep th400 internals into a Chev TH400 case (no adapter$ needed that way) or swap in an O/D trans like 700r4 and RH drop Chev case. ('87 and older) You would need an adapter to reuse the QT with 700r4. You could also do the Dodge NP208 with Chev input gear on the 700r4. It's your rig to do what you want in the end. Anyone looking for a 454/th400 combo to rebuild for a swap? It comes in a drivable package to take it home. '82 Chev C20 that I have used the past 4 years to haul car trailer, 5th wheel and junk metal, $700 takes it home (valve covers leak and it burns some oil, as in 1 qt per 2 tanks of gas) from Seattle. I also have a couple core 727s. 1 4x4 and 1 2wd fixed yoke 1 Ton version for $50 each. Going to have a HUGE yard sale, probably 4th of July or a Mon/Tues in the next couple months. 2a. 1973 Wagoneer Engine swap Posted by: "Erik Randle" erik.randle-at-yahoo.com erik.randle Date: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:00 pm ((PST)) I have a 1973 Wagoneer Custom that is in desperate need of a new engine however I have no clue what would be a good swap or were to start looking. Right now it has the AMC 360 in it and though its a decent engine I don't like the way they are put together. I've read that some guys swap out for the GM 350. but I really prefer Mopar and was wondering if you might be able to answer some questions. Would a Mopar 5.9 360 bolt straight in and if so what might be a decent transmission for both highway use and light duty 4x4? Or if I were to go with the chevy 350 what might be a good transmission to bolt up to that? I would appreciate any help you can give me and thanks for you time ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:36:53 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? ran down to seattle at lunch time... took pictures of the '86 Cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel that needs a new bellhousing (at a minimum). seller was asking $2k, down to $1k... not sure I take it if they paid me that much... not excited about it... but my Jetta just scored 36 mpg in town... one more tank to get an average... first was 41, now 36... suspect it'll be somewhere in between next time... anyway, the XJ is salvageable... the rust won't be an issue here, nothing structural is rotted and the body damage and paint isn't that bad... wondering if I should make an offer... any idea what this is worth? It'll need a few things... I'm thinking $300-$800 for trans repair and reinstall (mounts, etc.) about $500 worth of simple green and degreaser, probably another $500 worth of rust converter, (just kidding) new headliner, $400, seats, $500, bumper $200, good cleaning of exterior to see if there are any body panels that don't have a ding.... I'm thinking the left rear passenger door may be the only straight piece of metal on this thing... of course nothing serious, just didn't age well, kind of like most of us. The 2.1L Turbo Diesel has a rebuilt injection pump and the PPO had a new head installed... with all the oil all over that thing and the jug of valvoline (not a good sign) in the back I'm thinking this thing will need seals (actually O-rings) all over the place... the intercooler is a hack job, the a/c has been partially removed... the tires may be worth more than the entire vehicle, but who would ride on firestones? isn't that what disintegrated under ford exploders and caused them to roll? ok, so they were probably underflated, heavier and driven by folks in extremely hot weather that didn't know how to drive... they are likely noisy, and they are two sizes (6%) too big... should ahve p205/75/15, not p225. that's hard on that weak transmission. I wonder if the guy would give me the jeep if he could keep the tires... :) anyway, I could have this running in a weekend... not sure if the bellhousing could be tig welded or not... probably a good idea to get a replacement... but who knows what else is going on with this thing... keep the popcorn fresh... but don't add butter thinking this will become part of my fleet... :) today's pictures: http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-20jan2011.html showed these before: http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-by-owner.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 04:40:40 +0000 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [db] lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? Won't touch my head. :). I started counting tie wraps, then bailing wire, but I didn't find the duct tape or chewing gum, but I wasn't able to pop the hood. :) Some of the comments coming in are worth way more than the truck. :) john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Hoffman Sender: owner-diesel-benz-at-digest.net Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:50:18 To: Subject: Re: [db] lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? Looks pretty cobbed up for something that's supposed to be factory. And that headliner is disgusting! I wouldn't let that thing touch MY head! :D Jim - --- On Thu, 1/20/11, john wrote: > From: john > Subject: [db] lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? > To: > Date: Thursday, January 20, 2011, 6:36 PM > ran down to seattle at lunch time... > took pictures of the '86 Cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo > Diesel > that needs a new bellhousing (at a minimum). seller > was asking $2k, down to $1k... not sure > I take it if they paid me that much... not excited > about it... but my Jetta just scored 36 mpg > in town... one more tank to get an average... first was 41, > now 36... suspect it'll be somewhere > in between next time... > > anyway, the XJ is salvageable... the rust won't be an issue > here, nothing structural is rotted > and the body damage and paint isn't that bad... > > wondering if I should make an offer... > > any idea what this is worth? > > It'll need a few things... I'm thinking $300-$800 for trans > repair and reinstall (mounts, etc.) > about $500 worth of simple green and degreaser, probably > another $500 worth of rust converter, (just kidding) > new headliner, $400, seats, $500, bumper $200, good > cleaning of exterior to see if there are > any body panels that don't have a ding.... I'm thinking the > left rear passenger door may be > the only straight piece of metal on this thing... of course > nothing serious, just didn't age well, > kind of like most of us. > > The 2.1L Turbo Diesel has a rebuilt injection pump and the > PPO had a new head installed... with all > the oil all over that thing and the jug of valvoline (not a > good sign) in the back I'm thinking this > thing will need seals (actually O-rings) all over the > place... the intercooler is a hack job, the > a/c has been partially removed... > > the tires may be worth more than the entire vehicle, but > who would ride on firestones? isn't that what > disintegrated under ford exploders and caused them to > roll? ok, so they were probably underflated, heavier > and driven by folks in extremely hot weather that didn't > know how to drive... they are likely noisy, and > they are two sizes (6%) too big... should ahve p205/75/15, > not p225. that's hard on that weak transmission. > > I wonder if the guy would give me the jeep if he could keep > the tires... :) > > anyway, I could have this running in a weekend... not sure > if the bellhousing could be tig welded or not... > probably a good idea to get a replacement... but who > knows what else is going on with this thing... > > keep the popcorn fresh... but don't add butter > thinking this will become part of my fleet... :) > > today's pictures: > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-20jan2011.html > > showed these before: > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-by-owner.html > > > ----- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where > Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:37:47 -0800 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 In Snohomish: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2165133436.html Joe Hughes Cell/Text: (joe) hug-hes2 '49 Willys Pickup, 73 Cherokee chassis, 4BT, T-19, NP205, D44's '50 Willys Wagon, 95 Dodge 2500 chassis, 6BT, 47RH, NP241, D70-60 (Project) '22 Willys Overland Touring ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:45:55 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? Too bad you couldn't have push started it to see how it runs. Did it look like someone tried to weld that bell before? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:36:53 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: > Subject: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? > > ran down to seattle at lunch time... took pictures of the '86 Cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel > that needs a new bellhousing (at a minimum). seller was asking $2k, down to $1k... not sure > I take it if they paid me that much... not excited about it... but my Jetta just scored 36 mpg > in town... one more tank to get an average... first was 41, now 36... suspect it'll be somewhere > in between next time... > > anyway, the XJ is salvageable... the rust won't be an issue here, nothing structural is rotted > and the body damage and paint isn't that bad... > > wondering if I should make an offer... > > any idea what this is worth? > > It'll need a few things... I'm thinking $300-$800 for trans repair and reinstall (mounts, etc.) > about $500 worth of simple green and degreaser, probably another $500 worth of rust converter, (just kidding) > new headliner, $400, seats, $500, bumper $200, good cleaning of exterior to see if there are > any body panels that don't have a ding.... I'm thinking the left rear passenger door may be > the only straight piece of metal on this thing... of course nothing serious, just didn't age well, > kind of like most of us. > > The 2.1L Turbo Diesel has a rebuilt injection pump and the PPO had a new head installed... with all > the oil all over that thing and the jug of valvoline (not a good sign) in the back I'm thinking this > thing will need seals (actually O-rings) all over the place... the intercooler is a hack job, the > a/c has been partially removed... > > the tires may be worth more than the entire vehicle, but who would ride on firestones? isn't that what > disintegrated under ford exploders and caused them to roll? ok, so they were probably underflated, heavier > and driven by folks in extremely hot weather that didn't know how to drive... they are likely noisy, and > they are two sizes (6%) too big... should ahve p205/75/15, not p225. that's hard on that weak transmission. > > I wonder if the guy would give me the jeep if he could keep the tires... :) > > anyway, I could have this running in a weekend... not sure if the bellhousing could be tig welded or not... > probably a good idea to get a replacement... but who knows what else is going on with this thing... > > keep the popcorn fresh... but don't add butter thinking this will become part of my fleet... :) > > today's pictures: > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-20jan2011.html > > showed these before: > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-by-owner.html > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:11:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? yep, was thinking the same thing... the tires are worth more than the truck, and I wouldn't want them either. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 20 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # # Too bad you couldn't have push started it to see how it runs. Did it look like someone tried to weld that bell before? # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:36:53 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: # > Subject: fsj: lunch time adventure or why did I look at this? # > # > ran down to seattle at lunch time... took pictures of the '86 Cherokee with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel # > that needs a new bellhousing (at a minimum). seller was asking $2k, down to $1k... not sure # > I take it if they paid me that much... not excited about it... but my Jetta just scored 36 mpg # > in town... one more tank to get an average... first was 41, now 36... suspect it'll be somewhere # > in between next time... # > # > anyway, the XJ is salvageable... the rust won't be an issue here, nothing structural is rotted # > and the body damage and paint isn't that bad... # > # > wondering if I should make an offer... # > # > any idea what this is worth? # > # > It'll need a few things... I'm thinking $300-$800 for trans repair and reinstall (mounts, etc.) # > about $500 worth of simple green and degreaser, probably another $500 worth of rust converter, (just kidding) # > new headliner, $400, seats, $500, bumper $200, good cleaning of exterior to see if there are # > any body panels that don't have a ding.... I'm thinking the left rear passenger door may be # > the only straight piece of metal on this thing... of course nothing serious, just didn't age well, # > kind of like most of us. # > # > The 2.1L Turbo Diesel has a rebuilt injection pump and the PPO had a new head installed... with all # > the oil all over that thing and the jug of valvoline (not a good sign) in the back I'm thinking this # > thing will need seals (actually O-rings) all over the place... the intercooler is a hack job, the # > a/c has been partially removed... # > # > the tires may be worth more than the entire vehicle, but who would ride on firestones? isn't that what # > disintegrated under ford exploders and caused them to roll? ok, so they were probably underflated, heavier # > and driven by folks in extremely hot weather that didn't know how to drive... they are likely noisy, and # > they are two sizes (6%) too big... should ahve p205/75/15, not p225. that's hard on that weak transmission. # > # > I wonder if the guy would give me the jeep if he could keep the tires... :) # > # > anyway, I could have this running in a weekend... not sure if the bellhousing could be tig welded or not... # > probably a good idea to get a replacement... but who knows what else is going on with this thing... # > # > keep the popcorn fresh... but don't add butter thinking this will become part of my fleet... :) # > # > today's pictures: # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-20jan2011.html # > # > showed these before: # > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ-turboDiesel-1986/ALL-by-owner.html # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 21:56:00 -0800 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: RE: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 It's got spark plugs, so I didn't think you'd take interest in it. ;-) Joe Hughes Cell/Text: (joe) hug-hes2 '49 Willys Pickup, 73 Cherokee chassis, 4BT, T-19, NP205, D44's '50 Willys Wagon, 95 Dodge 2500 chassis, 6BT, 47RH, NP241, D70-60 (Project) '22 Willys Overland Touring - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:10 PM To: Joe Hughes Subject: Re: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 thanx, forwarded it to the cj-10 list. ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 20 Jan 2011, Joe Hughes wrote: # In Snohomish: # # http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2165133436.html # # # # Joe Hughes # # Cell/Text: (joe) hug-hes2 # # '49 Willys Pickup, 73 Cherokee chassis, 4BT, T-19, NP205, D44's # # '50 Willys Wagon, 95 Dodge 2500 chassis, 6BT, 47RH, NP241, D70-60 (Project) # # '22 Willys Overland Touring # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 22:01:42 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 you got that right my friend... spark plugs and rubber bands aren't high on my list of fun things... ;) besides, that's out of my price range... if there are numbers left of the comma I can't afford it. :) john On 1/20/2011 9:56 PM, Joe Hughes wrote: > It's got spark plugs, so I didn't think you'd take interest in it. ;-) > > Joe Hughes > Cell/Text: (joe) hug-hes2 > '49 Willys Pickup, 73 Cherokee chassis, 4BT, T-19, NP205, D44's > '50 Willys Wagon, 95 Dodge 2500 chassis, 6BT, 47RH, NP241, D70-60 (Project) > '22 Willys Overland Touring > > -----Original Message----- > From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:10 PM > To: Joe Hughes > Subject: Re: fsj: CJ-10a on CL with a LT1 > > thanx, forwarded it to the cj-10 list. ;) > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Thu, 20 Jan 2011, Joe Hughes wrote: > > # In Snohomish: > # > # http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2165133436.html > # > # > # > # Joe Hughes > # > # Cell/Text: (joe) hug-hes2 > # > # '49 Willys Pickup, 73 Cherokee chassis, 4BT, T-19, NP205, D44's # # '50 > Willys Wagon, 95 Dodge 2500 chassis, 6BT, 47RH, NP241, D70-60 (Project) # > # '22 Willys Overland Touring # > > - -- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 02:25:34 -0500 From: Mark Wallace Subject: fsj: sticky valves and rod knock Sticky valves...I am in the process of buttoning up a little project with sticky valves...not a Jeep but an old Ford 390. It bent more than half of it's pushrods. We sprayed kroil and marvel mystery oil on the valves and kept hitting them with a dead blow hammer until we got them freed up. In the beginning I couldn't even budge about five of them. As long as you have the valve cover off you might as well get some sort of oil on them. The Ford was still running with the bent pushrods, but I had a rough time even getting it into the driveway. A rod that goes clunk when it's bolted together has a bad bearing and will likely have rod knock when its running. Maybe it didn't tear up the crank too much and you can just get away with a new bearing shell or maybe you are in for cutting the crank .010 under. Sometimes you can get a little more oil pressure with heavier oil. I ran 20W-50 for years, but have since switched to 15W-40 rated for Diesel applications. (Flat tappet motor and all). I have a crank that has never been cut but has been polished so my bearing clearances are looser than I would prefer. If the engine is on the stand I'd say to get some plastigauge and find out where you really stand. was there any history on why the engine was pulled? Another thought is check your crank end play. I tore up a crank some years back after a torque converter balooned and ended up with about an eighth inch of end play. Ended up having the timing chain jump. not all in all a very good thing to have happen. When I rebuild my 360 I used a Melling oil pump rebuild kit, but the reality with oil pressure is that low oil pressure is more likely a symptom of worn bearings that a bad pump. If it checks out with the feeler gauge I'd just leave it be. Mark Wallace 81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 12:56:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: MB Diesels as swap objects I should call those folks... http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/default.aspx or even: http://www.dieselswapguys.com/?p=10 of course these kits assume a manual trans, I want one with an automatic. the issue is the flex plate, torque converter and bell housing... would want to mate to either an AW4 or a 45RFE. (possibly the 42RE, but not eager on that). there are manual boxes to control the shifing of the AW4, one of my son's friends is an electrical engineer and made one with simple parts, easy enough to do, but it's quasi-manual... adapting the trans computer to the Diesel would require a TPS (throttle position sensor), possibly a speed sensor, and a kickdown of some kind. Not rocket science. I'll have to look at the WJ computers to see what Rube Goldberg scheme they used in order to touch every one of the 8 to 10 computers on board... the heated seats used FOUR computers. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, dave wrote: # I have seen some older MB Diesels going cheaply here due to rust. Now IF I # had a kit to install one in a WJ, I would consider assembling the parts. # # later, # dave AKA vwdoc1 # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3687 **************************