From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Jan 23 23:29:14 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 24 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3690 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: some info on automatic trans fsj: RE: Diesel swap dreams: some info on automatic trans RE: fsj: RE: MB Diesels as swap objects fsj: Mopar has a 4.7 to swap for your 4.0L? fsj: 4.2 Oil Pump, Tabbed / no Tabbed FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 07:33:57 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: RE: some info on automatic trans The 545 is the 5 speed version. > From: vwdoc1-at-gmail.com > To: john-at-wagoneers.com; carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: some info on automatic trans > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 07:58:34 -0600 > > WOW I learn a lot here from you guys! > > IIRC The 45RFE actually has 5 speeds where an extra/different one is only > used when you want more power and later evolved to a true 5 speed which is > used behind some Liberty Diesels. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_RFE_transmission > > "On the 45 and 545RFE the hydraulic control system design (without > electronic assist) provides the transmission with PARK, REVERSE, NEUTRAL, > SECOND, and THIRD gears, based solely on driver shift lever selection. This > design allows the vehicle to be driven (in "limp-in" mode) in the event of > an electronic control system failure, or a situation that the Transmission > Control Module (TCM) recognizes as potentially damaging to the > transmission." > > later, > dave AKA vwdoc1 > > -----Original Message----- > From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 10:56 PM > To: Jim Blair > Cc: dave boykin; local Jeep list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; diesel-benz > list; xj > Subject: some info on automatic trans > > jim, > > the RH might does NOT mean right hand... but REAR Drive - HYDRAULICALLY > CONTROLLED > ------------------------ > the 42RE from what I've found means REAR drive ELECTRONICALLY CONTROLLED > so RH, as you even note in your later statement would mean REAR - HYDRAULIC. > :) > > > and the 4 likely means 4 speed, and the 3, three..., 2nd number may have to > do > with the torque converter, the 45rfe does something special, would have to > read up on it. > > > 45RFE - that 5 might indicate part of it's function, as it does > something different in the lower gears... R- Rear F-??? E-electronic > > found another post that lists this info: > from: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/42-re-vs-42-rle-622919/ > 4-Four speed > 2-Torque Rating (200-300 ft lbs) > R-Rear wheel drive > L-Longitude mounting > E-Electronically controlled. > > found this in the WJ manual: > 44 RE TRANSMISSION > Vehicles equipped with the 3.1L turbo diesel engine > use the 44RE automatic transmission. > The 44RE is a four speed fully automatic transmission > (Fig. 1) with an electronic governor. > > > found this post on: http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14124 > > "eep Grand Cherokee started using the 42RE transmission in 1993 1/2 models > with the 4.0L engine. The "4" stands for 4-speed, "2" is for torque > capacity, "R" is for rear-wheel drive, and "E" is for electronically > controlled. > This transmission is electronically controlled using a governor pressure > solenoid to vary the governor pressure. The shifts are controlled by the > valve body by conventional shift valves for 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts. The 3-4 > upshift and 4-3 downshifts are controlled by a solenoid. Although the shifts > are controlled by shift valves for the lower gears, the higher gear is > electronically controlled because the governor pressure acting against it is > controlled by the transmission control module (TCM). The throttle pressure > is controlled by a standard cable and throttle valve. The TCM inputs for > this system include engine rpm, throttle position sensor, vehicle speed > sensor, transmission output speed sensor, governor pressure sensor, > transmission fluid temperature sensor and overdrive "off" switch. The TCM > outputs are the 3-4 shift solenoid, the governor pressure solenoid and the > torque converter clutch solenoid. > Here's how this system operates: As the output shaft begins to move, a > 2-wire AC generator (transmission output speed sensor) begins to signal the > TCM of the rpm. As the shaft speed increases, the TCM controls the governor > pressure solenoid accordingly by a pulse-width modulated signal. Feedback to > the TCM is provided by a governor pressure sensor to verify that the > pressure actually changes. The pressure sensor is a 5-volt reference sensor. > When the wheels are not rotating, voltage around 0.6 V is normal. As the > wheels begin to speed up, the voltage should increase proportionately. If > the voltage does increase, then the pressure is increasing as it should - > this should be verified with a pressure gauge. This variance of pressure > acts upon the shift valves in the valve body along with the throttle > pressure to provide the shifts. As speed warrants, the TCM will apply the > 3-4 overdrive solenoid, which is the only shift solenoid used on this > system. The OD inputs are overdrive off switch, TPS, VSS, transmission temp > sensor, output speed sensor and engine rpm. The torque converter clutch > (TCC) solenoid will normally operate in overdrive, but the TCM can operate > the TCC in third gear if the overdrive off switch is selected. Inputs for > TCC include OD off switch, TPS, engine rpm, VSS, output speed and > transmission temperature sensor. > The transmission temperature sensor is mounted on the overdrive/torque > converter clutch solenoid assembly and provides input to the TCM. When the > temperature sensor reports 30 degrees F or colder, there will be no > overdrive, and below 50 degrees F, there will be no torque converter clutch. > If the transmission fluid temperature sensor reports an overheating > condition (over 260 degrees F) and the transmission is currently in > overdrive, the TCM will downshift to third gear. The TCM will also light the > LED in the dash-mounted OD off switch until the temperature drops below 230 > degrees F. However, the torque converter clutch may still be operational. > This system has self-diagnostics. Fault codes can be read with a scan tool > or by cycling the ignition key three times, then counting the flashes of the > LED in the OD off switch. The diagnostic connector is located inside the > vehicle to the left of the center console. The default mode of the TCM is > third gear. Manual shifting of reverse and second gear is possible when in > default mode. Default mode happens after a fault code is set. " > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > # 42RE stands for 4 speed (O/D) right hand starter electronically > controlled. RH32 is 3 speed RH starter hydraulic controlled. It's too bad > Dodge didn't make a 42RH version for AMC motors. (They did for Dodge small > blocks '88 to '92, but not slant 6s or big blocks) > # > # If they make a crank adapter to go with the 999 flexplate, it should work > with the AW4 as well (crank flange offset and pattern is the same for '72 to > '90 4.2 and all 4.0L). The pilot hole in the crank for the trans may be > different and need a sleeve (easily test fit to see) > # > # They would be far better off to make the MB diesel adapter to an AX-15 > than the wimpy AX-5 (I killed 2 myself and I haven't killed a BA 10/5 yet!) > If I had a MBZ bell and AX-15 bell, it shouldn't be hard to make an adapter > to fit it with just a plate on the trans. (I have 2 AX-15s here for > measurement but no bells) I do have a T5 bell with AMC pattern if they need > something to take a measurement from. > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:09:10 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Diesel swap dreams: some info on automatic trans you can get AW4's for $150... millions out there in good shape... I've only seen one that was damaged, and it was abused at low speeds by a post office worker... keep on digging dave! :) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 22 Jan 2011, dave wrote: # I can pick those 45RFE transmissions up pretty cheap, like $200-300. I # guess no one needs one since they last! Wish I could find a diesel engine as # cheap! lol # # What other engine besides the 3.7l & 4.7l hooks up to them? Although I guess # the Liberty diesel engines "might" bolt up to them since the 545RFE does. A # small light in the tunnel of creating a WJ with diesel power. # # later, # dave AKA vwdoc1 # # -----Original Message----- # From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] # Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:32 AM # To: Jim Blair # Cc: dave; local Jeep list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; xj # Subject: RE: fsj: some info on automatic trans # # that's what I was reading, makes sense, even more reason to like my 45RFE # transmission, # stronger, and more economical too! # # john # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # # # # # Doh! I forgot! (and I forgot had this conversation before too!) # # The second number has to do with the strength of the trans (amount of # torque it can handle) # # ergo a 45RE is stronger than a 42RE (by almost double IIRC) # # # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # # # # # # > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:56:02 -0800 # # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # # > CC: vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; # diesel-benz-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net # # > Subject: fsj: some info on automatic trans # # > # # > jim, # # > # # > the RH might does NOT mean right hand... but REAR Drive - HYDRAULICALLY # # > CONTROLLED # # > ------------------------ # # > the 42RE from what I've found means REAR drive ELECTRONICALLY # CONTROLLED # # > so RH, as you even note in your later statement would mean REAR - # HYDRAULIC. # # > :) # # > # # > # # > and the 4 likely means 4 speed, and the 3, three..., 2nd number may # have to # # > do # # > with the torque converter, the 45rfe does something special, would have # to # # > read up on it. # # > # # > # # > 45RFE - that 5 might indicate part of it's function, as it does # # > something different in the lower gears... R- Rear F-??? E-electronic # # > # # > found another post that lists this info: # # > from: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/42-re-vs-42-rle-622919/ # # > 4-Four speed # # > 2-Torque Rating (200-300 ft lbs) # # > R-Rear wheel drive # # > L-Longitude mounting # # > E-Electronically controlled. # # > # # > found this in the WJ manual: # # > 44 RE TRANSMISSION # # > Vehicles equipped with the 3.1L turbo diesel engine # # > use the 44RE automatic transmission. # # > The 44RE is a four speed fully automatic transmission # # > (Fig. 1) with an electronic governor. # # > # # > # # > found this post on: # http://www.mallcrawlin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14124 # # > # # > "eep Grand Cherokee started using the 42RE transmission in 1993 1/2 # models # # > with the 4.0L engine. The "4" stands for 4-speed, "2" is for torque # capacity, # # > "R" is for rear-wheel drive, and "E" is for electronically controlled. # # > This transmission is electronically controlled using a governor # pressure # # > solenoid to vary the governor pressure. The shifts are controlled by # the valve # # > body by conventional shift valves for 1-2 and 2-3 upshifts. The 3-4 # upshift # # > and 4-3 downshifts are controlled by a solenoid. Although the shifts # are # # > controlled by shift valves for the lower gears, the higher gear is # # > electronically controlled because the governor pressure acting against # it is # # > controlled by the transmission control module (TCM). The throttle # pressure is # # > controlled by a standard cable and throttle valve. The TCM inputs for # this # # > system include engine rpm, throttle position sensor, vehicle speed # sensor, # # > transmission output speed sensor, governor pressure sensor, # transmission fluid # # > temperature sensor and overdrive "off" switch. The TCM outputs are the # 3-4 # # > shift solenoid, the governor pressure solenoid and the torque converter # clutch # # > solenoid. # # > Here's how this system operates: As the output shaft begins to move, a # 2-wire # # > AC generator (transmission output speed sensor) begins to signal the # TCM of # # > the rpm. As the shaft speed increases, the TCM controls the governor # pressure # # > solenoid accordingly by a pulse-width modulated signal. Feedback to the # TCM is # # > provided by a governor pressure sensor to verify that the pressure # actually # # > changes. The pressure sensor is a 5-volt reference sensor. When the # wheels are # # > not rotating, voltage around 0.6 V is normal. As the wheels begin to # speed up, # # > the voltage should increase proportionately. If the voltage does # increase, # # > then the pressure is increasing as it should - this should be verified # with a # # > pressure gauge. This variance of pressure acts upon the shift valves in # the # # > valve body along with the throttle pressure to provide the shifts. As # speed # # > warrants, the TCM will apply the 3-4 overdrive solenoid, which is the # only # # > shift solenoid used on this system. The OD inputs are overdrive off # switch, # # > TPS, VSS, transmission temp sensor, output speed sensor and engine rpm. # The # # > torque converter clutch (TCC) solenoid will normally operate in # overdrive, but # # > the TCM can operate the TCC in third gear if the overdrive off switch # is # # > selected. Inputs for TCC include OD off switch, TPS, engine rpm, VSS, # output # # > speed and transmission temperature sensor. # # > The transmission temperature sensor is mounted on the overdrive/torque # # > converter clutch solenoid assembly and provides input to the TCM. When # the # # > temperature sensor reports 30 degrees F or colder, there will be no # overdrive, # # > and below 50 degrees F, there will be no torque converter clutch. If # the # # > transmission fluid temperature sensor reports an overheating condition # (over # # > 260 degrees F) and the transmission is currently in overdrive, the TCM # will # # > downshift to third gear. The TCM will also light the LED in the # dash-mounted # # > OD off switch until the temperature drops below 230 degrees F. However, # the # # > torque converter clutch may still be operational. # # > This system has self-diagnostics. Fault codes can be read with a scan # tool or # # > by cycling the ignition key three times, then counting the flashes of # the LED # # > in the OD off switch. The diagnostic connector is located inside the # vehicle # # > to the left of the center console. The default mode of the TCM is third # gear. # # > Manual shifting of reverse and second gear is possible when in default # mode. # # > Default mode happens after a fault code is set. " # # > # # > # # > # # > ----- # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # > # # > # # > On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # # > # # > # # # > # 42RE stands for 4 speed (O/D) right hand starter electronically # controlled. # # > RH32 is 3 speed RH starter hydraulic controlled. It's too bad Dodge # didn't # # > make a 42RH version for AMC motors. (They did for Dodge small blocks # '88 to # # > '92, but not slant 6s or big blocks) # # > # # # > # If they make a crank adapter to go with the 999 flexplate, it should # work # # > with the AW4 as well (crank flange offset and pattern is the same for # '72 to # # > '90 4.2 and all 4.0L). The pilot hole in the crank for the trans may be # # > different and need a sleeve (easily test fit to see) # # > # # # > # They would be far better off to make the MB diesel adapter to an # AX-15 than # # > the wimpy AX-5 (I killed 2 myself and I haven't killed a BA 10/5 yet!) # If I # # > had a MBZ bell and AX-15 bell, it shouldn't be hard to make an adapter # to fit # # > it with just a plate on the trans. (I have 2 AX-15s here for # measurement but # # > no bells) I do have a T5 bell with AMC pattern if they need something # to take # # > a measurement from. # # > # # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:41:04 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: RE: MB Diesels as swap objects Probably 27 eight by ten color glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one. (I know, I know. It's not thanksgiving!) > Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:32:29 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: xj-at-digest.net; diesel-benz-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: MB Diesels as swap objects > > likely there are illustrations out there somewhere... > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2011, Jim Blair wrote: > > # > # I have at home a lot of them right now. > # AW4 2wd from an XJ (was going to be put in my '82 Spirit before I got the bug to make it 4x4) > # T5 bell (sold the busted trans for parts) > # AX-5 bell and at least 1 trans/NP207 tcase combo > # AX-15 (4x4 and 2wd, but no bell. I need one for my '82 Honcho I'm building) > # 999 4x4 from the '82 Eagle and a 727 about to go in > # 727 4x4 and 2wd 1 ton (AMC) for parts > # > # Tcases: > # NP208F, NP208D, NP208C (parts), NP208AM, BW 1339, NV241 O/R (all for sale except the Rubicon case) > # > # Motors: > # AMC 2.5L (room mate's awaiting time to go in her '86 Comanche) > # AMC 4.6 stroker (in pieces awaiting assembly) > # two Ford 351Cs about to go for rebuild to make 1 good one. (room mate's for her '55 Ford rat rod) > # 454/TH400 (in my '82 C20 that for sale for $700 w/o the 5th wheel hitch) > # 290 AMC (getting an AX-15 and put into my Honcho) > # > # At my cabin I have: > # Uni-pattern TH400/QT (from my J4000) > # Another core 4.0/AW4/NV231 (in my '91 XJ parts rig) > # Running 4.2L with AW4/NP208 combo > # 304 with adapter ring and conversion flexplate (J4000) > # 327 Nash with adapter ring to TH400 (BMax's) > # BG241 IH motor (good runner and for sale, possibly with the 4 speed trans) > # IH V-345 and Clark 5 speed (will go into the '68 Travelall in place of the BG241 sometime soon hopefully) > # Datsun Z22 or Z24 (I forget) running motor with 5 speed (currently in the 720 pickup I'm making into a trailer) > # Toyota 3ee ('89 Tercel motor that's going into the '93 Tercel I have at home) > # IH 304 and BW auto (2wd from a C line Travelall) > # > # 999 2wd (about to come out of my '82 Spirit) > # T18A/NP208 (31 spline I'm told) combo with AMC 360 (running) that's coming out of the Honcho ($500 for the set) > # > # And I'm probably forgetting something (or two). > # > # There is going to be a HUGE yard sale before summer! (then a trip to the scrapyard with the '71 Loadstar 1800 fully loaded with the leftovers I don't need or can't sell) > # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > # > # > # > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 20:58:32 -0800 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > # > CC: xj-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net > # > Subject: RE: fsj: RE: MB Diesels as swap objects > # > > # > we should get good pictures of all the jeep bell housings and engines that > # > we can... how many do you have laying around Jim? still snowed in up in index? :) > # > > # > > # > # > # > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 15:12:29 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: fsj: Mopar has a 4.7 to swap for your 4.0L? Stroker that is! 4.7L stroker roller camshafts do exist Posted by: "Harrel" harrel-at-suddenlink.net pontiacgto71270 Date: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:46 pm ((PST)) >From the Mopar Pro Shop: The 4.7L Stroker is the direct replacement for the 4.0L Inline 6 engine. Engine comes internally balanced, completely assembled, and dyno tested upon arrival. This long block engine assembly includes 4.0L engine block and ported cylinder head, new 3.90 stroke crankshaft, OE rods, new forged dished 21 cc pistons, roller camshaft, roller lifters, stamped steel rocker arms, upgraded valve springs, upgraded pushrods, upgraded timing chain, timing gears, high-volume oil pump and pickup. http://www.moparproshop.com/inc/sdetail/5043 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 01:06:28 -0600 From: Kim Tesar Subject: fsj: 4.2 Oil Pump, Tabbed / no Tabbed Hi, So I am to replace the oil pump in the new/used 4.2, and have the screen from the old 4.2 (79 model) There are two oil pump versions it seems, one with a tabbed cover and one without a tabbed cover. Can the one with the tabbed cover (for the 1981 block) fit with the screen from the 79 model? I think that's the basic question. - - Landon ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3690 **************************