From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 30 15:15:06 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 30 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3721 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels Re: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels Re: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels fsj: time to go car shopping... RE: fsj: started counting... Re: fsj: A.I.R. pump/stuff needed Re: fsj: A.I.R. pump/stuff needed fsj: rear bumper for J10 needed FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:24:37 -0600 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels Not really relevant / participating in the full discussion, but just wanted throw in two cents re: ethanol fuels. FYI that we still have Ethanol "Winterized" fuels here in CO. It's a multi-level thing. The farmer's are involved (Lobbyist think more ethanol is better, etc.), emissions and air quality, both state and Fed is involved, and we use different octane levels and excuses because of the higher average altitude. (I live out on the plains at 4700 ft; Denver Metro is a bit higher, many mountain towns are significantly higher, of course.) Here we have low-grade 85 octane, Midgrade is 88, and "Premium" is 91; all with ethanol in the winter. I know that is different from some other areas, especially coastal areas. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels you're in one of the few areas cited in the country as getting the special fuel, reno is another one... I posted the links in earlier emails... we were up until a few years back... jim was trying to tell me some of my trouble was related to winterized/oxygenated fuel and I think he was confused with the mixing of some ethanol now, which isn't nearly as bad... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Troy Phagan wrote: # Not really relevant / participating in the full discussion, but just wanted # throw in two cents re: ethanol fuels. # # FYI that we still have Ethanol "Winterized" fuels here in CO. It's a # multi-level thing. The farmer's are involved (Lobbyist think more ethanol is # better, etc.), emissions and air quality, both state and Fed is involved, and # we use different octane levels and excuses because of the higher average # altitude. (I live out on the plains at 4700 ft; Denver Metro is a bit higher, # many mountain towns are significantly higher, of course.) # # Here we have low-grade 85 octane, Midgrade is 88, and "Premium" is 91; all # with ethanol in the winter. I know that is different from some other areas, # especially coastal areas. # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:21:00 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels That makes sense. john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Troy Phagan Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 15:01:02 To: john Reply-To: tsp-at-crptruck.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: ethanol fuels I apologize; by the time I get caught up on the links and discussions, I am usually 'behind the times' in most discussions on the list... heh. I know a salesman for BG Products (fuel additives, synth oils, etc.); they did comprehensive testing of various fuels across a multi-state region. I don't remember the specifics, but the quality of fuel varies quite widely, even within a state. He also said that , in general, even the non-oxygenated fuel has about 30% BTU's of total energy than fuel used 10 years ago. Octane tests are mandated and regulated; octane is enhanced with all sorts of voodoo, but the fuel itself has less energy anyway. On 3/29/2011 2:04 PM, john wrote: > you're in one of the few areas cited in the country as getting the special fuel, > reno is another one... I posted the links in earlier emails... > > we were up until a few years back... jim was trying to tell me some of my trouble > was related to winterized/oxygenated fuel and I think he was confused with the > mixing of some ethanol now, which isn't nearly as bad... > > john > > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Troy Phagan wrote: > > # Not really relevant / participating in the full discussion, but just wanted > # throw in two cents re: ethanol fuels. > # > # FYI that we still have Ethanol "Winterized" fuels here in CO. It's a > # multi-level thing. The farmer's are involved (Lobbyist think more ethanol is > # better, etc.), emissions and air quality, both state and Fed is involved, and > # we use different octane levels and excuses because of the higher average > # altitude. (I live out on the plains at 4700 ft; Denver Metro is a bit higher, > # many mountain towns are significantly higher, of course.) > # > # Here we have low-grade 85 octane, Midgrade is 88, and "Premium" is 91; all > # with ethanol in the winter. I know that is different from some other areas, > # especially coastal areas. > # > # - -- - -Troy Troy Phagan C.R.P. 4x4& Auto Accessories 2102 9th ST Greeley, CO 80631 970-351-8603 fax: 970-353-3066 tsp-at-crptruck.com www.crptruck.com www.smilingcharleys.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:02:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: time to go car shopping... just got back from the shop... the '91 300D is toast... it appears to have spit up a crank bearing... they pulled the pan today and found chunks of metal from the oil pump chain, but there were also pieces of brass in there that looked like crank bearing material. ...losing an oil pump at 60mph in a turbo Diesel is not usually a good thing... we may try to stuff a new chain on the oil pump and see what happens... to rebuild it would cost up to 5K. A replacement engine can be had for about 2k, with another 1k to install... into a car worth maybe 4k... :( we'll see if my son can get it running and how well it does... not optimistic after seeing the debris field. So, I'll be putting the tires on my VW Jetta (same size, new Pirellis), pulling the stereo, Euro headlights, alarm system and maybe the seats... the car has 268,000 miles on it... has been quite a good car... but the a/c leaked and the cruise didn't work... we've had to for seven years... put over 100k on it... got our money's worth... this is the first time it's failed us... SO, WHAT ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A "NEW" CAR that is: - not a clunker - doesn't have a lot of miles - is an automatic - maybe all wheel or 4 wd - gets reasonable economy (over 20 mpg in town) - likely a 4dr - has a/c - is respectable - is reliable - is clean If I could find a decent car around $4k that would be great... but I'm thinking we'll end up spending more than that... We started to lament the sale of the WJ but the mechanic at the shop said I did a good thing, the 4.7's are starting to get a very bad reputaion... although the one we had was and is superb... but he makes a good point, and the economy was horrible in town. VERY IMPORTANT, WHAT SHOULD WE AVOID? - brands, models, years? (know to avoid '96-'03 Mercedes) What would you recommend? I'm open to ideas and ignorant about most vehicles except older mercedes and jeeps... not likely we'll get another Jeep... maybe another mercedes Diesel... but considering that this will be my wife's car I don't think we can afford what she'd be willing to drive. Meanwhile the Jetta Wagon is doing fine... unfortunately it's a stick, wife can't drive a stick and has no interest in learning how to do so... I taught her in Germany how to drive the BMW... after a few near death experiences we agreed she should drive an automatic... :) I prefer automatics as well. thanx for your advice, warnings and leads... we have a couple of free tickets on alaska and would be willing to fly out and drive back... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 19:36:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: started counting... try this one: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1983-J10-white/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # # Don't know why, but the links posted to FSJ-list and 1fsj didn't work # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # > Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:57:27 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com # > Subject: fsj: started counting... # > # > just updated the vehicle history page to show jeeps only, # > kind of in celebration of FSJ #27... # > # > http://wagoneers.com/johns-Jeeps-history.html # > # > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/1983-J10-white/2011-03-25-J10/JM7_5482e_2011-03-25.jpg # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 21:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: A.I.R. pump/stuff needed You'll see an explanatory post later, but thought I'd throw this out right now. Landon I think you're relatively close. I have either a complete or 95% complete AIR system +. I know there is at least 1 air pump, brackets, parts and pieces like the banjo dealies, and a brand-new-in-the-box AIR line that runs back to the cat connection. Come get them and they're yours for the taking. I'll live vicariously through your running SJ... And actually... if you or anyone who is close enough to come and clean out what you want from a shed full of parts I've got at zip 46140, you can have what you want for a very reasonable donation... lol.. bring the wife a giftcard for Red Lobster or a tank of gas, or something appropriate to what you're interested in ;-) There's most of at least one SJ in there, sans frame / drivetrain. It's not bad to pick either. Most little stuff like motor parts, etc. is in buckets and wooden boxes. There's lotsa glass, body panels, etc. I'm more interested in someone getting use from this stuff really than trying to make money. EBay is just too much trouble and costs too much. I can probably make a little money on the local craigslist I guess.... anyway, I am not in a position to prep and ship anything at this point, even if paid, so this really is a local offer I guess. ... for now... JeepNut - ---------------------------------------------------------- '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. '88 Grand Wagoneer - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. - ---------------------------------------------------------- Registered Linux user #287453 - --- On Sun, 3/27/11, Kim Tesar wrote: From: Kim Tesar Subject: Re: fsj: A.I.R. pump/stuff needed To: "john" Cc: "local Jeep list" Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 1:32 AM No functional test to pass, systems have to be in place and hooked up. No catalytic converter on the 6 cyl, but even in 79, there were systems, they even make sense with the great manuals we have available. I'm on a bit of a discovery with this. It's unfortunate that cars through the 70s and 80s were built with these components, but as owners, we are not well trained to handle them. I'd like to hear from Mark about what kind of cottage engineering industry existed at AMC for vacuum systems. PCV (we've talked about this) EGR (I think the one from the other motor is leaking, the vacuum port does not hold vacuum when off the truck at least) AIR (still not clear that this is effective without a catalytic converter, I read that it helps to cool the exhaust stream...so we can send it to a catalytic converter?) I do have the manifold and check valve, but not the diverter valve, pump, and hoses TAC for the warm air intake - I don't have a place to connect the warm air hose to the manifold, seems of limited value in warm climate/days. And there's a distributor advance dependency on the TAC open as well. Might as well count the weighted flap in the exhaust that opens up as the engine warms. I'm just glad I have: 1. an American truck that's easy to work on 2. parts are generally available, with some scrounging 3. a good community on the internet 4. shop manuals online at oljeep.com - - Landon On Mar 26, 2011, at 2:27 AM, john wrote: > you have emissions on a '79??? my '83 doesn't require any... > and I'm quite happy, because I'm not sure it would pass. :) > > I may have some of the air lines, not sure about the banjo bolts though... will > look tomorrow... or if mine has them I'll remove them... > > I'm still twiddling bits in excel, not sure but I think my kid > got 17.7 mpg... he was drafting semis at 60mph on I-5 (speed limit was 70)... > > raw data is 114.6 miles, 7.1 gallons... mapquest shows the two > gas stations he drove between was 124.97 miles apart... factoring that percentage > of error in as .0917 the miles are correct and the mpg goes to 17.7 (from 16.1). > > It has oversized tires, about 10% worth... > > john > > date odometer miles ERROR gals mpg > 25-Mar-11 19,390.2 start 0.0917 15.4 17.70 > 25-Mar-11 19,504.8 114.6 125.1 7.1 17.70 > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Kim Tesar wrote: > > # Hi all, > # > # Need one for my J10 to pass inspection. Has to be hooked up. > # I can find one locally for $35 but would gladly pay 25+shipping to buy from > # someone on the list. > # > # Bracket, belt, diverter valve, and even hose also needed for 79 Jeep, does > # not have to match exactly. > # > # Landon > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 22:40:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: A.I.R. pump/stuff needed Isn't landon in TX? that's pretty close.... ;) anyone looking for mercedes 124 parts? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 29 Mar 2011, JeepNut wrote: # You'll see an explanatory post later, but thought I'd throw this out right # now. # # Landon I think you're relatively close. # I have either a complete or 95% complete AIR system +. I know there is at # least 1 air pump, brackets, parts and pieces like the banjo dealies, and a # brand-new-in-the-box AIR line that runs back to the cat connection. Come get # them and they're yours for the taking. # I'll live vicariously through your running SJ... # # And actually... if you or anyone who is close enough to come and clean out # what you want from a shed full of parts I've got at zip 46140, you can have # what you want for a very reasonable donation... lol.. bring the wife a # giftcard for Red Lobster or a tank of gas, or something appropriate to what # you're interested in ;-) # There's most of at least one SJ in there, sans frame / drivetrain. It's not # bad to pick either. Most little stuff like motor parts, etc. is in buckets # and wooden boxes. There's lotsa glass, body panels, etc. # # I'm more interested in someone getting use from this stuff really than trying # to make money. EBay is just too much trouble and costs too much. # I can probably make a little money on the local craigslist I guess.... anyway, # I am not in a position to prep and ship anything at this point, even if paid, # so this really is a local offer I guess. ... for now... # # # JeepNut # # ---------------------------------------------------------- # # '92 Cherokee Laredo, bought new, an heirloom. Passed to one of # # the grandkids in 2009 -at- 270K miles.... # # '04 Grand Cherokee Laredo. Bone stock. It's hers. # # '87 Street Comanche #24/100. In storage. # # '88 Grand Wagoneer # # - '81 AMC 360 -.030 over- Edelbrock Performer/1400 600cfm 4bbl, # # TFI System upgrade, TF727 -mild kit- NP229, D44's F/R -3:31- # # B.J.'s Offroad 6" kit/ drop pittman, stainless extended brake lines, # # ProComp 3000 shocks, Maxxis Buckshot 33x12.5x15 # # 14 Spoke OEM Wagonwheels, IPF 65/55 lamps...and then some. # # ---------------------------------------------------------- # # Registered Linux user #287453 # # --- On Sun, 3/27/11, Kim Tesar wrote: # # From: Kim Tesar # Subject: Re: fsj: A.I.R. pump/stuff needed # To: "john" # Cc: "local Jeep list" # Date: Sunday, March 27, 2011, 1:32 AM # # No functional test to pass, systems have to be in place and hooked up. # # No catalytic converter on the 6 cyl, but even in 79, there were systems, they # even make sense with the great manuals we have available. # I'm on a bit of a discovery with this. It's unfortunate that cars through the # 70s and 80s were built with these components, but as owners, we are not well # trained to handle them. # I'd like to hear from Mark about what kind of cottage engineering industry # existed at AMC for vacuum systems. # # PCV (we've talked about this) # EGR (I think the one from the other motor is leaking, the vacuum port does not # hold vacuum when off the truck at least) # AIR (still not clear that this is effective without a catalytic converter, I # read that it helps to cool the exhaust stream...so we can send it to a # catalytic converter?) I do have the manifold and check valve, but not the # diverter valve, pump, and hoses # TAC for the warm air intake - I don't have a place to connect the warm air # hose to the manifold, seems of limited value in warm climate/days. # And there's a distributor advance dependency on the TAC open as well. # Might as well count the weighted flap in the exhaust that opens up as the # engine warms. # # I'm just glad I have: # 1. an American truck that's easy to work on # 2. parts are generally available, with some scrounging # 3. a good community on the internet # 4. shop manuals online at oljeep.com # # - Landon # # On Mar 26, 2011, at 2:27 AM, john wrote: # # > you have emissions on a '79??? my '83 doesn't require any... # > and I'm quite happy, because I'm not sure it would pass. :) # > # > I may have some of the air lines, not sure about the banjo bolts though... # will # > look tomorrow... or if mine has them I'll remove them... # > # > I'm still twiddling bits in excel, not sure but I think my kid # > got 17.7 mpg... he was drafting semis at 60mph on I-5 (speed limit was # 70)... # > # > raw data is 114.6 miles, 7.1 gallons... mapquest shows the two # > gas stations he drove between was 124.97 miles apart... factoring that # percentage # > of error in as .0917 the miles are correct and the mpg goes to 17.7 (from # 16.1). # > # > It has oversized tires, about 10% worth... # > # > john # > # > date odometer miles ERROR gals mpg # > 25-Mar-11 19,390.2 start 0.0917 15.4 17.70 # > 25-Mar-11 19,504.8 114.6 125.1 7.1 17.70 # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Sat, 26 Mar 2011, Kim Tesar wrote: # > # > # Hi all, # > # # > # Need one for my J10 to pass inspection. Has to be hooked up. # > # I can find one locally for $35 but would gladly pay 25+shipping to buy # from # > # someone on the list. # > # # > # Bracket, belt, diverter valve, and even hose also needed for 79 Jeep, # does # > # not have to match exactly. # > # # > # Landon # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:14:00 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: rear bumper for J10 needed Neal... can't disagree... and I should have clarified I'm looking for a REAR bumper... :) what suggestions have you got for a decent rear bumper? the one on my '83 sticks out 8 inches to the right... :) going to take the sawzall to it... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # RE: FSJ #27 WHILE WAITING FOR #11... LOOKING FOR A J10 BUMPER # Posted by: "Neal Hoover" proj96xj-at-insightbb.com proj76j10 # Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:49 pm (PDT) # # i hate to throw this out there, but i just can't hold back.... # am i the only one who thinks the OEM rear step bumpers for j-trucks are just # gawd-awful looking? # # Neal A. Hoover # Project '76 J-10 # Project '96 XJ # http://community.webshots.com/user/proj96xj ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3721 **************************