From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Apr 1 21:45:03 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, April 2 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3722 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: [db] OT: more questions on car shopping fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3722 fsj: John Looking for New car fsj: Re: John Looking for New car RE: fsj: Howell EFI Re: xj: RE: fsj: Howell EFI RE: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3722 fsj: the $50 home paint job - was Re: Trusty, Rusty Mr. Ford Truck fsj: OT: car shopping fsj: Re: OT: more questions on car shopping RE: fsj: OT: car shopping FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:03:25 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] OT: more questions on car shopping 95 is fine. Still OBDI. I haven't heard of them having charging problems like the '96 up (regulator function was moved into the main computer along with transmission controls, ABS function and myriad other things) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [db] OT: more questions on car shopping It"s a 95. john at http://wagoneers.com - - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 23:40:51 To: john Meister; Cc: xj; local Jeep list; Subject: RE: fsj: Re: [db] OT: more questions on car shopping I think '96 anything is pretty dicey. OBDII was just starting and they break pretty easy. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 13:12:15 -0600 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3722 Just opinion, but I have never owned a Toyota that I didn't like. I have never owned an Audi, but my body shop and mechanical experiences with them have indicated that they are outrageously overpriced bastard cousins to VW. Often it used to be, you can ONLY get the correct parts from AUDI, even though it shared a VW platform... and the AUDI parts are stupidly over-priced, and in short supply... But YMMV ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 15:23:48 -0400 From: Mark Wallace Subject: fsj: John Looking for New car I just went through the finding a new car for a lady friend. The criteria list was something along the lines of good fuel economy, good resale value, durability and something she could comfortably drive (no bad habits). I first suggested a Wagoneer, but she said that she hadn't been bad enough to deserve a Wagoneer. We ended up with a list of candidates and we went to drive each one with no pre-formed opinion on any of them. I think the list included a WJ grand Cherokee, a bunch of Subarus, a Diesel MB, a MINI, a Toyota Prius. We found that Diesel MB's for sale were few and far between and in our search never managed to drive one. Subarus were on the radar as they seem to be the go-to car in New Mexico. What we found is that their fuel economy was 22 to 24 highway. Barely better than a modern V8 truck. (My dakota gets 19 with a 318 V8) A friend's wife drives one and it is expensive to repair. The third thing that I noticed and we drove several is that at highway speeds they don't track down the road straight. They have what I would describe as a "Dutch Roll Characteristic) I was pretty unimpressed. The Grand Cherokee had a nice price of admission, the 4.0 Straight 6 that I know how to work on and fundamentally the same economy as the Subarus, but it was too big for her tastess. that would have been my choice. because she drives a lot of miles she got the Prius which I refer to as "Almost as nice" as my rodent infested Wagoneer. But I would not go for Subaru. Mark Wallace Rodent Infested 81 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 20:22:09 +0000 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: John Looking for New car Looking at a 95 xj country in a few hours. I watched a video on how to put the front clip of an audi into service mode, heard enough about asian imports and rubber bands. Hoping the xj is clean. Heading up the hill to retrieve the dead 300d. My tdi with the 11mm pump is fun, will use it to drag the 300d home. Happy shopping jim. :) john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: "James D. Sterling" Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 12:58:25 To: john Subject: RE: John Looking for New car Well I am in the same boat as John only in So Cal. I am looking at VW Jetta and Passat wagons and Audi and Volvo wagons. My budget is about the same as Johns. I can go manual or auto (prefer manual but in wagons harder to get). Have a line on a 2002 Passat wagon 119K, water pump and timing belt done at 100K, new tires, brakes. People just had another child and need something bigger. Hopefully looking at it Monday. Drove a Jetta wagon (1.8Turbo, 5sp). That was FUN!! Drove the Volvo, not so fun, but a strong safe car. At about 95K they need timing belts done (same for all the 4 and 6 cyls). Hoping the Passat wagon (1.8Turbo, auto) is almost as much fun to drive as the Jetta. Jim Sterling jsterling-at-sterlingnetworks.net 805-579-8998 Founding Partner SMBTN www.smbtn.org - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Mark Wallace Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 12:24 PM To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: John Looking for New car I just went through the finding a new car for a lady friend. The criteria list was something along the lines of good fuel economy, good resale value, durability and something she could comfortably drive (no bad habits). I first suggested a Wagoneer, but she said that she hadn't been bad enough to deserve a Wagoneer. We ended up with a list of candidates and we went to drive each one with no pre-formed opinion on any of them. I think the list included a WJ grand Cherokee, a bunch of Subarus, a Diesel MB, a MINI, a Toyota Prius. We found that Diesel MB's for sale were few and far between and in our search never managed to drive one. Subarus were on the radar as they seem to be the go-to car in New Mexico. What we found is that their fuel economy was 22 to 24 highway. Barely better than a modern V8 truck. (My dakota gets 19 with a 318 V8) A friend's wife drives one and it is expensive to repair. The third thing that I noticed and we drove several is that at highway speeds they don't track down the road straight. They have what I would describe as a "Dutch Roll Characteristic) I was pretty unimpressed. The Grand Cherokee had a nice price of admission, the 4.0 Straight 6 that I know how to work on and fundamentally the same economy as the Subarus, but it was too big for her tastess. that would have been my choice. because she drives a lot of miles she got the Prius which I refer to as "Almost as nice" as my rodent infested Wagoneer. But I would not go for Subaru. Mark Wallace Rodent Infested 81 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:44:11 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Howell EFI $1300 = 3,250 miles worth of fuel (-at- 10 mpg), so to get between 50 & 100% improvement (15-20 mpg), it will take you 4,825 to 6,500 miles with that fuel. Average driver will do 12,000 miles a year, so that's 1200 gallons, or 800 to 600 with EFI. That means about 6 to 8 months to recoup your costs. (not counting labor) > Subject: Re: fsj: Howell EFI > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:28:08 +0000 > > Rofl. That's more than I've paid for 24 of my 27 FSJs. :) > john at http://wagoneers.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Blair > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:44:46 > To: ; > Cc: > Subject: RE: fsj: Howell EFI > > About $1300 > http://www.howellefi.com/customer/tbi-kit-1972-93-304-360-401-v-8-jeep-amc-of froad.html > > > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:18:28 -0700 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: tsp-at-crptruck.com > > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: fsj: Howell EFI > > > > how much does this upgrade cost? > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Troy Phagan wrote: > > > > # FYI: I have been taking a closer look at the Howell EFI system for my truck. > > # I questioned them about the CARB exemption and model years, the email > > # exchange looks like this: > > # > > # ------- > > # From Me, to Howell: > > # > > # Thanks; I have reviewed the info you sent; I appreciate it. However, I have > > # a question: > > # > > # I see and understand that the AMC v8 kit Part # K247JPV8 works on all years > > # through 1991; > > # > > # BUT the CARB E.O. exemption is only good up to 1981 Models? > > # > > # Is that correct? > > # > > # The reason I ask is because I have an 1982; I am in an CO emissions area. > > # Not sure if my local emissions people would understand the actual improvement > > # this would be... Do you have any insight or experience with the CO emissions > > # program? > > # ------ > > # Response from Howell: > > # > > # Troy, > > # > > # the K247JPV8 is smog legal through 1993. We originally had it approved > > # through 1981 and later it was extended to 1993. it is on file with CA Carb > > # E.O. requirements as 1972-1993. I assure you 1982 will no t be a problem. > > # > > # Matt > > # > > # ----- > > # > > # Some of the documentation online, and even paper copies sent to me, still > > # only referred to the old approval, through 1981. > > # I hope this really going to save me some hassle, if I can get the local > > # emission people to understand and cooperate.... I was seriously considering > > # having to buy an additional older model truck to work with the emissions > > # situation I have... > > # > > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 21:15:20 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: xj: RE: fsj: Howell EFI Excellent analysis Jim. Sharing. Thanx. john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Jim Blair Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:44:11 To: ; ; ; Reply-To: xj-at-digest.netSubject: xj: RE: fsj: Howell EFI $1300 = 3,250 miles worth of fuel (-at- 10 mpg), so to get between 50 & 100% improvement (15-20 mpg), it will take you 4,825 to 6,500 miles with that fuel. Average driver will do 12,000 miles a year, so that's 1200 gallons, or 800 to 600 with EFI. That means about 6 to 8 months to recoup your costs. (not counting labor) > Subject: Re: fsj: Howell EFI > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:28:08 +0000 > > Rofl. That's more than I've paid for 24 of my 27 FSJs. :) > john at http://wagoneers.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Blair > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:44:46 > To: ; > Cc: > Subject: RE: fsj: Howell EFI > > About $1300 > http://www.howellefi.com/customer/tbi-kit-1972-93-304-360-401-v-8-jeep-amc-of froad.html > > > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:18:28 -0700 > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > > To: tsp-at-crptruck.com > > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net > > Subject: Re: fsj: Howell EFI > > > > how much does this upgrade cost? > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2011, Troy Phagan wrote: > > > > # FYI: I have been taking a closer look at the Howell EFI system for my truck. > > # I questioned them about the CARB exemption and model years, the email > > # exchange looks like this: > > # > > # ------- > > # From Me, to Howell: > > # > > # Thanks; I have reviewed the info you sent; I appreciate it. However, I have > > # a question: > > # > > # I see and understand that the AMC v8 kit Part # K247JPV8 works on all years > > # through 1991; > > # > > # BUT the CARB E.O. exemption is only good up to 1981 Models? > > # > > # Is that correct? > > # > > # The reason I ask is because I have an 1982; I am in an CO emissions area. > > # Not sure if my local emissions people would understand the actual improvement > > # this would be... Do you have any insight or experience with the CO emissions > > # program? > > # ------ > > # Response from Howell: > > # > > # Troy, > > # > > # the K247JPV8 is smog legal through 1993. We originally had it approved > > # through 1981 and later it was extended to 1993. it is on file with CA Carb > > # E.O. requirements as 1972-1993. I assure you 1982 will no t be a problem. > > # > > # Matt > > # > > # ----- > > # > > # Some of the documentation online, and even paper copies sent to me, still > > # only referred to the old approval, through 1981. > > # I hope this really going to save me some hassle, if I can get the local > > # emission people to understand and cooperate.... I was seriously considering > > # having to buy an additional older model truck to work with the emissions > > # situation I have... > > # > > # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:31:02 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3722 I agree on most Toyotas (there are some motors that are clinkers and I wouldn't do drive by wire after seeing the video where someone hacked the controller and accelerated a car into a wall!) Not impressed with Subaru after having 1 for 120,000 of it's 160,000 miles > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 13:12:15 -0600 > From: tsp-at-crptruck.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #3722 > > Just opinion, but I have never owned a Toyota that I didn't like. I > have never owned an Audi, but my body shop and mechanical experiences > with them have indicated that they are outrageously overpriced bastard > cousins to VW. Often it used to be, you can ONLY get the correct parts > from AUDI, even though it shared a VW platform... and the AUDI parts are > stupidly over-priced, and in short supply... But YMMV ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: the $50 home paint job - was Re: Trusty, Rusty Mr. Ford Truck http://www.easypaintyourcar.com/CarPainting/fiftydollarmyth.html there's another one like this out there... can't find it, $50 paint job or something like that... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 1 Apr 2011, Doug Thorndike wrote: # John - # # The roof of my old truck is pretty much all rusted on the surface (no known # perforations), along with some very old paint and touch-up work. I'd like # to clean it up, treat and primer, and paint it with Rustoleum from # rattle-cans this summer. I'm wondering if I can get the metal cleaned and # bare myself with my Porter-Cable random orbital sander and a bunch of # sanding disks in various grits. # # Otherwise, where would I go to get it sand blasted and have a cheap paint # job shot - utility white, no need to match the other body paint on the # truck? Final finish quality isn't a priority - anything will be better than # the ugly rust, and a new coat or two of appropriate paint could protect the # metal for my needs. I don't even plan to pull off trim or anything fancy # other that a bit of masking during the paint process. # # Thorndike # PO Box 1 # Snohomish WA 98291 # 360-568-8729 # doug_thorndike-at-comcast.net # # # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:50:58 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: OT: car shopping I'm learning a great deal... some of it contradictory, some of it controversial... but all have been very helpful. 1) I will consider an Audi, but after watching what it takes to put the front end into "service mode" I'll steer wide... ;) 2) I will consider an AT in a Passat 3) I will conisder a W140, but '01 and newer 4) I will look at a japanese car, might even get in it... 5) a good friend recommends subaru... specific, expensive ones... others seem to dislike them (likely less expensive units) 6) none of the "cute utes" have passed muster with the intended driver. So, in the meantime, with some elevated expectations and hope, I'm going to look at a nice '95 Cherokee Country tonight... http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ/ALL.html - $3k, 17/21 mpg, 180k new rad,fans, batt,brakes, tires... the guy bought it from his boss, the original owner, his wife drove it for a year, now he just bought his "dream car"... chrysler something... funny, when I think dream car the word chrysler usually isn't in that sentence... 300 something or another... don't know what it is, but it must be nice to give up such a nice cherokee... ;) he also has a durango... had to put a new trans in it... again, having driven in both, I'd be selling the durango... but that's the only negative thing I can think about on this xj... :) and since I'm not acquiring the owner or his tastes I hope it'll all be ok. I do see a few little dings on bumpers, not a big deal, a shopping cart can total an xj bumper... ;) So, I'd rather suffer a few mpg on fuel to have a vehicle I know is mechanically sound, have replacement parts in my shop for, can diagnose by looking at it and know it's safe in a crash... have totalled two... this xj doesn't have a hitch, another point in it's favor, it's never been abused... so far the high powered audis, awd whatevers, gas mercedes all seem to be in the same range as this xj... since I'm interested in working on what I know and my wife is interested in getting the bathroom remodelled I may have dodged a car payment... will be praying this XJ is as nice as it looks and sounds... I've purchased two of these with over 150k on them and drove them until sold or totalled well into the upper 200's. The 4.0 and AW4 transmissions are nearly indestructible, and if they do fail, replacements are plentiful and easily swapped. I hope and pray my wife likes it... otherwise I'm in for a long search... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 02:24:26 +0000 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: OT: more questions on car shopping I think we're going to try to find another Milton Bradley. :). The 95 xj was pretty nice, however the drivers door was very, very hard to open by me from the inside and impossible for my wife. And it was too truck like with small mirrors. Another MB Diesel is in our future. She is totally spoiled by the wj and then the 124. If we can't find a suitable benz the next in line will be a passat. john at http://wagoneers.com - -----Original Message----- From: Colucci B Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 19:56:49 To: john Subject: Re: OT: more questions on car shopping Greetings John! Why not just get another milton bradly 300D? You really like the car, and now you have a complete parts car. The Admiral On 03/31/2011 11:35 PM, john wrote: > we're looking for a reliable car that looks nice, has an automatic, and four doors. > all wheel drive would be nice but not required. 20 mpg or better makes sense. > spending less is the plan... but saving money when buying and spending it later fixing isn't good either. > > The possibility of departing from a Jeep, Mercedes, or VW is a new, and some what intimidating experience... > I don't have an immediate interest in GM, Nissan, Hyuandi, Dodge, Chrysler, Ford... or many of the cars below... :) > > But, anything to be concerned about with any of these: > > Volvo ??? > > Audi? Quattro? Allroad? > > VW (automatics prior to 2005) > > Mercedes (avoiding 96-03) > > (have a problem with Japanese cars in general, need help to be convinced...) > Subaru (2002 and up H6 has been recommended) - a good friend is recommending these, but I'm having trouble here... > Toyota Rav 4? - I like these... not a jeep, but might be economical > Honda CRV - I could see one of these too... have heard good things... > Honda - having a real problem seeing myself piloting one of these things... > Toyota? this one will really take some work to get me into.. > Lexus - my skin is crawling, but I need to give them a try, maybe it'll work... > > > recommendations? (with explanations) > > Right now Audi and Volvos are popping up on my radar... thoughts? > > > we'll go through all this and likely end up with a nice clean Cherokee again... > trying not to go back into debt... this vehicle won't be driven much after all... > > thanx > john > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 21:44:21 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: OT: car shopping I don't like the little mirrors on my MJ so I was going to put either West Coast or swingaway tripods on it. Wish I had the energy to finish it for my wife (after tomorrow night I may have room in my carport for it again if the '89 chev stepside box goes away, but the '93 Tercel that needs a headgasket or motor will be next. I have a spare motor already in case) I did a LOT of work on the MJ. Converted it to 4x4 and AW4 auto with NV242 tcase for AWD. It has a canopy, 33/9.50/15 tires with 5.5" lifted front and SOA rear. I'm upgrading the brake booster to a later model for better stopping too. New rad and trans cooler lines (just need to hook them up & the shifter cable with the column shifter and gauges to finish it) Topped with a nice canopy, all that was left was a nicer seat inside and carpet (someone put garbage house carpet in over the vinyl) I tried to sell it a couple times (1/2 heartedly) for $2,000, but since her '01 Subaru Legacy L is going away soon, I may have a shop finish the bits and pieces I don't have time for. > Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 14:50:58 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: > Subject: fsj: OT: car shopping > > I'm learning a great deal... some of it contradictory, some of it controversial... but all have been very helpful. > > 1) I will consider an Audi, but after watching what it takes to put the front end into "service mode" I'll steer wide... ;) > 2) I will consider an AT in a Passat > 3) I will conisder a W140, but '01 and newer > 4) I will look at a japanese car, might even get in it... > 5) a good friend recommends subaru... specific, expensive ones... others seem to dislike them (likely less expensive units) > 6) none of the "cute utes" have passed muster with the intended driver. > > > So, in the meantime, with some elevated expectations and hope, I'm going to look at a nice '95 Cherokee Country tonight... > > http://wagoneers.com/tmp/XJ/ALL.html - $3k, 17/21 mpg, 180k new rad,fans, batt,brakes, tires... > the guy bought it from his boss, the original owner, his wife drove it for a year, now he just > bought his "dream car"... chrysler something... funny, when I think dream car the word chrysler > usually isn't in that sentence... 300 something or another... don't know what it is, but it must be nice > to give up such a nice cherokee... ;) he also has a durango... had to put a new trans in it... again, > having driven in both, I'd be selling the durango... but that's the only negative thing I can think about on > this xj... :) and since I'm not acquiring the owner or his tastes I hope it'll all be ok. I do see a few > little dings on bumpers, not a big deal, a shopping cart can total an xj bumper... ;) > > > So, I'd rather suffer a few mpg on fuel to have a vehicle I know is mechanically sound, have replacement parts > in my shop for, can diagnose by looking at it and know it's safe in a crash... have totalled two... this xj > doesn't have a hitch, another point in it's favor, it's never been abused... > > so far the high powered audis, awd whatevers, gas mercedes all seem to be in the same range as this xj... > > since I'm interested in working on what I know and my wife is interested in getting the bathroom remodelled > I may have dodged a car payment... will be praying this XJ is as nice as it looks and sounds... I've purchased > two of these with over 150k on them and drove them until sold or totalled well into the upper 200's. The 4.0 > and AW4 transmissions are nearly indestructible, and if they do fail, replacements are plentiful and easily swapped. > > I hope and pray my wife likes it... otherwise I'm in for a long search... > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum > tunc aperuit illis sensum ut intellegerent scripturas > http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3722 **************************