From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Aug 23 17:30:01 1999 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, August 23 1999 Volume 01 : Number 530 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Tires and gears fsj: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) fsj: Re: your FSJ fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) Re: fsj: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) Re: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) Re: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) fsj: some info fsj: Saturdays show and shine fsj: '74 Chero in the junkyard fsj: 401 Headers Re: fsj: 401 Headers Re: fsj: 700R4 swap and TH-400 confusion Re: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long fsj: FWD: Hi-stall Torque converter question fsj: Help! brake trouble... and tranny trouble update FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:11:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Tires and gears I checked the online calculator at 4LO.COM, and it appears that the 33" tires with the 3.31 ratio will give me 2.87 instead of the 2.72 I now have with 29", which will be just enough to make up for the weight difference in the tires! LOL! Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:20:01 -0400 From: Mark Graves II Subject: fsj: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) Hey guys, I'm new to this list, and just picked up my first FSJ a couple weeks = ago. It's a 1981 J10, 360 (swapped in pre-me), NP208, (? Tranny), D44 = front, AMC20 rear. My question is: I bought the thing with the rear drive shaft in the bed = of the truck (drove it home in four wheel drive, using front end to pull = me around - I know, that's bad). The front end seemed to make it the = 5-10 miles home, but when I wen't to put the rear shaft back in, the = holes that you put those little hex bolts in were all screwed up. (when = I say hex bolts, I mean the bolts that hold the half moon cover over the = U joints that attach to the couppler thing coming out of the rear = end.... sorry about my really "technical" terminology. I have no idea = what I'm talking about, but I seem to do well with all my repairs = anyways). Two of the holes had 3 years of corrosion and dirt clogging them up, so = the bolts turned in really hard. The other two were the real problem: = One was drilled out. Not just stripped, but actually no threads left. = The other has a bolt broken off in it.=20 At first I thought about retapping the one hole, and my grandpa = suggested just putting a a bolt through it and a nut on the back. either = way that was solved, at least temporarily. The other I thought about = using an easy out on it, or drilling it out and doing the same as the = other. Well, I don't have many tools, and the place I work at has a Maintenance = shop. They offered to let me use their tools to pull the "Coupler" out = and bring it in and they would help me do the work, but I couldn't get = the thing out! I took the nut off the center, and used a gear puller to try and pull = the rest off the center shaft.. Was I doing anything wrong? Is there an = easier way to go about it? If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I = have some pictures, but I'll have to email them to you. Sorry so long. Any info could help. - -Mark Graves ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:07:16 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: your FSJ my first choice is a 6.5L Turbo Diesel or 6.2L. second choice is a Mercedes 300D. The dodge would be way hard to fit, it's been done, and it's such a noisy motor. I'm looking at a couple different projects right now. I think I found a 64 J truck that's buildable... I've got a 4.0L I can use it in until I can find a Diesel setup I can afford. :) john At 10:46 PM 8/22/99 EDT, Divefl26-at-aol.com wrote: >have you decided what Diesel engine you may put in? I have thought of doing >that but have not decided which way to go. I dont want to go GM because they >are so Darn loud. I would like to go Dodge but dont know if its a major >project or not.. >shawn > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:04:29 -0600 From: "Jason Whitaker" Subject: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) How about drilling all the holes out and using the ubolt style of retainer? I guess a lot of people swap to those. Jason Whitaker '78 Wag Loveland CO > > Hey guys, > I'm new to this list, and just picked up my first FSJ a couple > weeks ago. It's a 1981 J10, 360 (swapped in pre-me), NP208, (? > Tranny), D44 front, AMC20 rear. > My question is: I bought the thing with the rear drive shaft in > the bed of the truck (drove it home in four wheel drive, using > front end to pull me around - I know, that's bad). The front end > seemed to make it the 5-10 miles home, but when I wen't to put > the rear shaft back in, the holes that you put those little hex > bolts in were all screwed up. (when I say hex bolts, I mean the > bolts that hold the half moon cover over the U joints that attach > to the couppler thing coming out of the rear end.... sorry about > my really "technical" terminology. I have no idea what I'm > talking about, but I seem to do well with all my repairs anyways). > Two of the holes had 3 years of corrosion and dirt clogging them > up, so the bolts turned in really hard. The other two were the > real problem: One was drilled out. Not just stripped, but > actually no threads left. The other has a bolt broken off in it. > At first I thought about retapping the one hole, and my grandpa > suggested just putting a a bolt through it and a nut on the back. > either way that was solved, at least temporarily. The other I > thought about using an easy out on it, or drilling it out and > doing the same as the other. > Well, I don't have many tools, and the place I work at has a > Maintenance shop. They offered to let me use their tools to pull > the "Coupler" out and bring it in and they would help me do the > work, but I couldn't get the thing out! > I took the nut off the center, and used a gear puller to try and > pull the rest off the center shaft.. Was I doing anything wrong? > Is there an easier way to go about it? If you have no idea what > I'm talking about, I have some pictures, but I'll have to email > them to you. > > Sorry so long. Any info could help. > > -Mark Graves > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:14:19 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) At 10:20 PM 8/22/99 -0400, Mark Graves II wrote: >Hey guys, >I'm new to this list, and just picked up my first FSJ a couple weeks ago. It's a 1981 J10, 360 (swapped in pre-me), NP208, (? Tranny), D44 front, AMC20 rear. >My question is: I bought the thing with the rear drive shaft in the bed of the truck (drove it home in four wheel drive, using front end to pull me around - I know, that's bad). The front end seemed to make it the 5-10 miles home, but when I no, it's not bad... it's only bad if you had the rear driveshaft connected. :) wen't to put the rear shaft back in, the holes that you put those little hex bolts in were all screwed up. (when I say hex bolts, I mean the bolts that hold the half moon cover over the U joints that attach to the couppler thing coming out of the torx type... you can use an 8mm on 'em, sometimes... 12pt socket... gotten lucky a few times. rear end.... sorry about my really "technical" terminology. I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I seem to do well with all my repairs anyways). >Two of the holes had 3 years of corrosion and dirt clogging them up, so the bolts turned in really hard. The other two were the real problem: One was drilled out. Not just stripped, but actually no threads left. The other has a bolt broken off in it. >At first I thought about retapping the one hole, and my grandpa suggested just putting a a bolt through it and a nut on the back. either way that was solved, at least temporarily. The other I thought about using an easy out on it, or drilling it out and doing the same as the other. drilling and retapping might work... using a nut might be enough to throw it out of balance... it would be close to the center of gravity, but still... just imagine a nut flying off of that thing at highway speed... it would go right through the bed and still hurt someone... not a good idea. >Well, I don't have many tools, and the place I work at has a Maintenance shop. They offered to let me use their tools to pull the "Coupler" out and bring it in and they would help me do the work, but I couldn't get the thing out! the part that's messed up is in the transfer case or on the rear axle? If it's on the transfer case have a tranny shop help you out, if it's on the rear axle either a driveshaft shop, tranny shop or a place that does front end alignments would have the hercin' tools to get that puppy off... Either way, save your money and have the pro's fix it. You mess that up and you could cause major damage to your rig... ever heard of a J20 called Timex? :) the bottomless transfer case? You could join that elite club if you don't fix it the right way. :) >I took the nut off the center, and used a gear puller to try and pull the rest off the center shaft.. Was I doing anything wrong? Is there an easier way to go about it? If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I have some pictures, but I'll have to email them to you. The coupler, if it's in the transfer case is probably beyond your current regime of tool capability... I wouldn't even want to mess with it... take it to a shop. :) > >Sorry so long. Any info could help. >>-Mark Graves john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:17:14 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) At 10:04 PM 8/22/99 -0600, Jason Whitaker wrote: >How about drilling all the holes out and using the ubolt style of retainer? >I guess a lot of people swap to those. >Jason Whitaker >'78 Wag >Loveland CO >> >> Hey guys, >> I'm new to this list, and just picked up my first FSJ a couple >> weeks ago. It's a 1981 J10, 360 (swapped in pre-me), NP208, (? It's a different type of coupler... I think Randy's ring and pinion changed my rear driveshaft on the little wagoneer that way when we had some problems with the rear seal/coupler... we still had to swap out the coupler though... I think... it's been a couple years, fuzzy memory on it... I don't think we can just drill and change it to a strap type though... maybe we can... A call to a rear end shop would get an answer to that question I'd guess... :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:19:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long post...) A: When I worked at A&B tranny, I had to do that to all the police cars that came in, because they wrecked the flat straps all the time in the 426 powered cars. (I have a '72 Plymouth Fury Gran Coupe sitting in my driveway right now for parts that has a 400/727 and 9 1/4 rear end in it. I was tempted to put it in my '83 Cherokee, but I like fuel economy!) At 10:04 PM 8/22/99 -0600, Jason Whitaker wrote: How about drilling all the holes out and using the ubolt style of retainer? I guess a lot of people swap to those. Jason Whitaker '78 Wag >Loveland CO >> Hey guys, I'm new to this list, and just picked up my first FSJ a couple weeks ago. It's a 1981 J10, 360 (swapped in pre-me), NP208, (? It's a different type of coupler... I think Randy's ring and pinion changed my rear driveshaft on the little wagoneer that way when we had some problems with the rear seal/coupler... =A0 we still had to swap out the coupler though... I think... it's been a couple years, fuzzy memory on it... I don't think we can just drill and change it to a strap type though... maybe we can... A call to a rear end shop would get an answer to that question I'd guess... :) john Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 03:28:58 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: some info john writes: >> j10 vs. wagoneer - 10 inches longer wheelbase - 9 inches overall longer - ONLY 3.3 inches wider - 3.9 inch wider front track (1.95 in/side!) - 6 inches wider rear track (3" more) << Keep in mind tread width is measured from the center of the tread on one standard wheel/tire to the center of the tread on the other wheel/tir= e. Which ever wheel/tire combo. was standard for that model. The way to do it is throw them up on jack stands, pull off the wheels and rotate each drum/rotor until one wheel stud is at the 9 or 3 o'clock positions (your choice). Then use a string with a plumb-bob on the end ov= er the particular wheel stud and let the plumb-bob down to the floor (that's= flat concrete floor :-)). Make a mark. Do the same on the other side and then measure the distance between. Trust me, it won't come anywhere near Jeep's specs. Oh...front wheels straight ahead and toe-in will make the front slightly less than 100% accurate. If you want 100% accuracy up front, do it at both the 3 and 9 o'clock positions and average the two. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 22-Aug-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 03:29:02 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Saturdays show and shine Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) writes: >> an AMX on an SJ frame << At a Hot August Nights event, I saw a 4WD limo. made from a couple of late '70s Mercury Marquee/Ford Granada bodies on a FSJ frame and running gear. It was worn and faded, but well executed. Had a 360 or 401 4bbl und= er the hood. Turns-out the person responsible was none other than Mr. Bill Harrah. Same person responsible for the Jerrari and for managing to collect almos= t 2,000 cars. You've seen the name Harrah's on casinos in Reno, S. Lake Tahoe, Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Mississippi river boat casino and I believe they have some Indian Reservation casinos like one near Cherokee,= NC? Harrah's is now owned by Holiday Inn which was kind enough to sell mo= st of Mr. Harrah's auto collection :-(. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 22-Aug-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 03:29:00 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: '74 Chero in the junkyard Brazzadog-at-aol.com writes: >> Under the dash to the right of the steering column was what looked lik= e a hood release lever (obviously wasn't though) that said "low range" on i= t. I thought Q-trac low range levers were under the seat. What gives? << Ben, the '73-'75 FSJs with the Q-T used a under-dash cable shifter for th= e low range unit. Jeep 1st used the side-tunnel sifter in '76. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 22-Aug-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 03:28:59 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: 401 Headers john writes: >> Do you know of anyone who makes header for an AMC 401 in a Wagoneer? << Hmmm...John didn't write that. I think Jake did. See, that's how I do it James :-) It would be a lot easier if you asked who doesn't make headers for the AMC V-8. = Doug Thorley, Edelbrock, Headman, Hooker, etc. The 1st two would be preferable. Headman has a premium line, but I don't know if they offer= the AMC variety there. The 1st and the last are the only ones which offer= AIR fittings...Hooker by custom order only. It boils down to, you can spend $300-400 for a good set of headers with thick flanges and tubes or spend ~$100 and chase header leaks until you get disgusted and remove them. Either way headers have to be carefully installed. I've been running a set of Doug Thorley's for 5 years now leak-free. -- Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 22-Aug-1999 = ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 00:45:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 401 Headers A: Ed's Header's in Auburn, WA make the best according to the AMC-list. Lifetimers! (off-road damage notwithstanding!) john writes: Do you know of anyone who makes header for an AMC 401 in a Wagoneer? << Hmmm...John didn't write that. I think Jake did. See, that's how I do it James :-) It would be a lot easier if you asked who doesn't make headers for the AMC V-8. Doug Thorley, Edelbrock, Headman, Hooker, etc. The 1st two would be preferable. Headman has a premium line, but I don't know if they offer the AMC variety there. The 1st and the last are the only ones which offer AIR fittings...Hooker by custom order only. It boils down to, you can spend $300-400 for a good set of headers with thick flanges and tubes or spend ~$100 and chase header leaks until you get disgusted and remove them. Either way headers have to be carefully installed. I've been running a set of Doug Thorley's for 5 years now leak-free. =A0=A0-- Michael Baxter, Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:27:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 700R4 swap and TH-400 confusion A: My '83 Cherokee SJ has a NP208 with a solid yoke output. I think Doc (or someone else on the other list) had a 4 speed with 208 in Timex, but I believe it was Chev or Dodge with RH output. Brad wrote: The Dodge and Ford NP208s are also solid rear output. I have suspected that you could probably take a GM and Dodge NP208 and create a NP208 with a chevy input and solid rear output. (GM and Dodge NP208s both have right hand front outputs.) All the slip yoke eliminators that I have seen are for the NP231 (and the other newer NP tcases used in XJs). Did they every use a NP208 in an XJ? Jim and others write: "Jason Whitaker" writes: The Jeep NPs have different bolt patterns than the Chevy NPs. << I also just learned the GM NP-208 has a slip-yoke :-(. The Jeep NP-208 has a solid rear output shaft which is the way it should be. =A0=A0-- Michael Baxter, A: There is a slip yoke eliminator available, but can't rember who (it was bandied around on the XJ-list recently) Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:22:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Rear Diff & Drive Shaft Cuppler thing..(?) (long Many of the strap type yokes can be converted to u-bolt type by drilling out the bolt holes a little. To do so however, they need to have a big enough flat area on the back side for a lock washer and nut. Some do, and some don't. The u-bolt type are stronger than the strap type, but that doesn't mean you need to be afraid of the strap type unless you plan on subjecting them to lots of torque. - -brad John writes: > At 10:04 PM 8/22/99 -0600, Jason Whitaker wrote: > >How about drilling all the holes out and using the ubolt style of retainer? > >I guess a lot of people swap to those. > >Jason Whitaker > >'78 Wag >Loveland CO >> > >> Hey guys, > >> I'm new to this list, and just picked up my first FSJ a couple > >> weeks ago. It's a 1981 J10, 360 (swapped in pre-me), NP208, (? > > It's a different type of coupler... I think Randy's ring and pinion > changed my rear driveshaft on the little wagoneer that way when we > had some problems with the rear seal/coupler... we still had to > swap out the coupler though... I think... it's been a couple years, > fuzzy memory on it... I don't think we can just drill and change > it to a strap type though... maybe we can... A call to a rear end > shop would get an answer to that question I'd guess... :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: FWD: Hi-stall Torque converter question I answered this question so well, that I thought it was worthwhile passing on to this list too! George Andrews wrote: I currently have a stock converter (~900 rpm stall speed) installed. I am considering installing a converter with a higher stall speed...say ~1500 rpm. Doing so will give me more power as the engine will be at a higher rpm (closer to the power range) prior to the converter kicking in. My question is: Are there any disadvantages to a higher stall speed? On-road? Off-road? Somebody must have gone here before? A: You lose topend speed and fuel economy, but gain power. 1500 is a not bad setup, but I preferred the 1200 stall I had in my '73 Buick Le Sabre for a compromise. In fact, it was the stock stall speed converter from my 6 cyl '68 Chev pickup with TH400. I put the V8 low stall back in the pickup, and took advantage of the powerband more. I did lose a little load capacity with the lower stall though, but I didn't haul much more than hay or the horses with it anyway. I forgot to mention, that one big advantage that us Dodge tranny runners have is the ability to have a lockup converter. That way you can go high stall, and when it locks up, it's the same feeling as an overdrive! Plus with little mechanical knowhow, most people can add an electric solenoid to the lockup tube, to lock it out while trailriding or towing! George wrote: I have 3.54 gears in the differentials. I will be installing a B&M shift kit at the same time. A: Depending on what size your tires are, a high stall may be a waste of money and time with those gears. What's your freeway cruise speed now? Do you drive the freeway often? G: While I'm at it, I will also be installing a transmission temperature gauge...so another question: At what temperature should a transmission run? A: A good average temp is 170F to 140F degrees. Over 180 shortens your automatics life. It's a bell curve thing. The longer and higher the temp is over 180, the more damage done exponentially! Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:11:25 -0600 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: Help! brake trouble... and tranny trouble update hi. First, an update on the Cherokee's tranny trouble. Changed the filter (and decided that a drain plug ought to be mandatory, and if it's not included the engineers should be SHOT, kneecaps first....) and put in new fluid, trouble is gone, shifts fine now. Thanks for the replies... gives me more to think about if it happens again. on to the new... My wife informs me this morning that the brake light comes on and pedal goes to the floor. Seeking to further qualify these troubles, I took a spin. This is my report: Pedal does indeed sink to the floor, in stages though, sort of a pulsed sinking. I counted 3 stages, no more or less. And the brake light comes on towards the end of it, like it should. Fluid levels are good, fluid looks a little old though... but that shouldn't make that kind of difference. Also, pedal will pump up and stay pumped up in park-- so I am assuming this rules out a fluid leak. My thinking right now is that something is wrong with the booster. If there were a hole in the hose that goes to the manifold, would that cause this problem? Or is it the booster itself? I thought I'd query the list first before gettting the ham-shaped gloves out. Any replies are much appreciated! in UT Tacoma 67 Kaiser M725 "Gigantor the Heep" 78 Cherokee Chief icq 5058954 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #530 *************************