From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Aug 27 09:02:08 1999 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, August 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 533 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: About my jeep. fsj: Re: Carb vapor lock fsj: Re: Fwd: jeep pickup fsj: combination valve question. fsj: combination valve question, PT2 Re: fsj: combination valve question. Re: fsj: combination valve question, PT2 fsj: 205 for my TH400 fsj: Re: 205 for my TH400 Re: fsj: Re: 205 for my TH400 fsj: 205 fsj: more serious J10 thinkin' (long) Re: fsj: combination valve question. Re: fsj: Re: About my jeep. fsj: Wagoneer instrumentation update Re: fsj: 205 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:22:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: About my jeep. On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 TMartin79-at-aol.com wrote: >-->Hey, it's me again. The guy with the 1983 Wagoneer Ltd. I have the >-->selec-trac and I was wondering if it would be okay to leave it in 4 wheel >-->high. Would it eat more gas or would the tires wear quicker? If you have an >-->answer, let me know. Thanks a lot. >--> Tom It won't make a great deal of difference in mileage and will NOT wear the tires more. My 81 had the NP219 full time, never noticed any wear. You might see 1/2 mpg more in 2wd... and less wear and tear on the driveline. If you tow anything, use fulltime 4wd, it distributes the stress throughout the drivetrain. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:01:48 EDT From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Carb vapor lock I removed the standard fuel-pump from my '73 Wagoneer and tried to install a Carter high-volume mechanical pump; but it wouldn't clear the exhaust manifold and the lower radiator hose, so I removed it and plugged the hole with a big-block Shivvy blockoff plate, and installed a Carter electric pump just in front of the fuel tank, with a fuel filter at its intake. I re-routed the fuel line along the firewall to another fuel filter just before the carburetor, shortening the line by a couple feet. Since then, no vapour- lock, and to my surprise, the gas mileage has improved slightly. ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ awaiting the next flash- flood in Las Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:08:37 -0700 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: Re: Fwd: jeep pickup Brian wrote: > > > --- Steve Beitler wrote: > > i still have > > that jeep pickup and i am now making a serious > > attempt to sell it since i bought a 2000 gmc ext > > cab pu. i fixed the hard starting problem, the > > fuel pump was weak. it also has a new battery. > > since i am no longer on the fsj list i would > > appreciate it if you could post it there for me. i > > am asking $1750 for it but will consider all > > reasonable offers. i will also consider trades. i > > will also deliver within a 200 mile radius if > > necessary. > > you may just want to forward this entire letter to > > the list if you like. the truck is in okla city > > and i can be contacted at 405-324-8438 or > > 405-740-1319. ask for steve. > > the truck is all original, in good shape, and > > would make an excellent restorer. the fuel guage > > is the only thing on the truck that doesn't work. > > it has a 360 v-8, 3 sp man, a/c, and intermittent > > wipers. the trans has less than 500 miles on a > > rebuild. > > see you later and take it easy. i still plan on > > being in ouray, but it'll be in the little jeep. > > later, > > > > steve Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird 4.6 V8/Sport/LSD I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through... Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1) Those who fear and distrust the people 2) Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe...depository of the public interest. - -- Thomas Jefferson ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:33:58 -0600 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: combination valve question. ok.. I'm about to put the new master cylinder in... my question is, how to hold in the metering valve on the combination valve? The '78 TSM states that the valves do NOT require recentering, but that they must be held open for bleeding. Anyone do this before? I'm sure I'll rig something up, barring a timely response hehe... I'm just curious mostly. Thanks!! - --Tacoma ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:39:11 -0600 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: combination valve question, PT2 also, no mention of the comb. valve in the Haynes bleeding procedure. Is this necessary????? - -Tacoma ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:02:12 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: combination valve question. I use a piece of scrap steel with a c-clamp. Michael has some great details too... Hey, have ya checked out that 80 J10 yet for me? :) He's out of town till Sunday... :) It's got a NP219! :) john At 10:33 PM 8/26/99 -0600, Tacoma White wrote: >ok.. I'm about to put the new master cylinder in... my question is, how to >hold in the metering valve on the combination valve? The '78 TSM states >that the valves do NOT require recentering, but that they must be held open >for bleeding. Anyone do this before? I'm sure I'll rig something up, >barring a timely response hehe... I'm just curious mostly. Thanks!! >--Tacoma > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:04:14 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: combination valve question, PT2 If you forget it your brakes will be mushy... Even my mechanic didn't know about it... but Michael did... :) john At 10:39 PM 8/26/99 -0600, Tacoma White wrote: >also, no mention of the comb. valve in the Haynes bleeding procedure. Is >this necessary????? > >-Tacoma > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:03:54 -0700 From: Whit Subject: fsj: 205 for my TH400 I am looking to build a setup that is bulletproof. I currently have a 727 tranny with the 208 transfer case. I have a Turbo 400 from a '77 Wagoneer sitting in the garage and want to mate a 205 transfer case to it. Can anyone suggest donor vehicles that would have a 205 with a driver side drop and would mate to my TH400? Thanks. Whit ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:19:06 -0600 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: Re: 205 for my TH400 Shouldnt' the 77 have a pass. side drop? Or is it the other way around? (too lazy to go across the street to look at my 78 Chief hehe..) If you did, you can use the freely available Chevy model-- available anywhere 3/4ton Chevy's are wrecked hehe. For my money, it's worth the new axle. I don't know what yr your Jeep is though..... - --Tacoma - ---------- > From: Whit > To: fsj-at-digest.net; jeeptech-at-moab.off-road.com > Subject: fsj: 205 for my TH400 > Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 11:03 PM > > I am looking to build a setup that is bulletproof. I currently have a 727 > tranny with the 208 transfer case. I have a Turbo 400 from a '77 Wagoneer > sitting in the garage and want to mate a 205 transfer case to it. Can > anyone suggest donor vehicles that would have a 205 with a driver side drop > and would mate to my TH400? Thanks. > > Whit > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:42:42 -0700 From: Whit Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 205 for my TH400 The 77 did have a passenger drop but '77 is the donor vehicle. The J20 it will go into is an 84. Whit At 11:19 PM 8/26/99 -0600, you wrote: >Shouldnt' the 77 have a pass. side drop? Or is it the other way around? >(too lazy to go across the street to look at my 78 Chief hehe..) If you >did, you can use the freely available Chevy model-- available anywhere >3/4ton Chevy's are wrecked hehe. For my money, it's worth the new axle. I >don't know what yr your Jeep is though..... >--Tacoma > >---------- > > From: Whit > > To: fsj-at-digest.net; jeeptech-at-moab.off-road.com > > Subject: fsj: 205 for my TH400 > > Date: Thursday, August 26, 1999 11:03 PM > > > > I am looking to build a setup that is bulletproof. I currently have a >727 > > tranny with the 208 transfer case. I have a Turbo 400 from a '77 >Wagoneer > > sitting in the garage and want to mate a 205 transfer case to it. Can > > anyone suggest donor vehicles that would have a 205 with a driver side >drop > > and would mate to my TH400? Thanks. > > > > Whit > > Whit ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 01:44:20 EDT From: GuyJeepin-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 205 Whit, These are just thoughts. GM used th400 to 205, so there's an adapter they sit taller though so maybe some creative mounting. If the th400 is from a qt the tail shaft won't work. you'll have to change to the adapter or input gear which ever way 205's work. Late dodges and 70's ford's use driver side front output's. I'd imagine that all 205's have the same bolting flange, but watch the t/c's 203's and 205's look a lot a like. Dave GuyJeepin-at-aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:04:54 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: more serious J10 thinkin' (long) Ok, The J10 plot is thicking... I'm going down to Portland in the am to scarf up a 2v carb and manifold from Whit to get my 77 Wag on the road... dragging down some a/c stuff and dragging back whatever I can strap to the little wagoneer... but I digress... The J10 plot, yes, that's the purpose of this message. :) With a little help from my FSJ friends and then some, I have assembled the possible candidates... Your help in making up my flippin' mind is gladly accepted... of course I'll change my mind, but I'm digressing again aren't I? :) 1) 64 J200 - no engine/trans/xfr case, also no rust, free. drawback - it's in Boise. no interior and old axles. It'll be a two day adventure to retreive and puts the little wagoneer in mechanical peril. (3 serious passes in hot weather!) I don't have a shop... I don't even have a level piece of smooth concrete to work on... I'm nuts to consider this... I should email the guy and apologize for wasting his time... :( 2) 64 J200 - a buick 401???, manual trans, dana20?, no rust, clean drawback - it's sold... on payments, so there is hope. It's in portland, looking at it tomorrow. if I like it I may try to contact the person buying it and talk him out of it... I guess it's a young kid who may not be able to come up with the money anyways and this way I'll make sure he gets his deposit back. :) $1,500 in Portland... (some pix on my site) This one falls into a very likely scenario. New axles and my 4.0L would make this a nice rig... again, it's doable, even with no shop... but it's sold... and I don't have 80 and up axles... we'll see tomorrow how this works out... 3) 80 J10 - a Tacoma special find! $3,500 super clean, 360, np219, tf727 http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J10s/80-J10.jpg drawbacks: 131" wheelbase, a/c broke, in SLC! that and my wife is gonna hurt me when I tell her I want it... This one is really ready to go. I'm interested... it's beautiful... but I'm gonna have trouble getting permission to spend money... might happen... I'll only need to borrow little bit to make it work out... tacoma, the other nutcase on the list (besides me) even volunteered to drive it out here for me if I give him an airplane ticket back... :) This one is gonna take some thought, prayer and the sale of a few toys... :) But it sure would be nice to have a low mileage, newly rebuilt driveline setup... I like this one the most so far for time savings... 4) 67 J200 - a rusted out beauty... no floorboards, probably pick it up for about $300, 327 4v holley, three on the tree, dana20, long wheelbase down at one of the dairy farms... If I can figure a way of getting the floorboards replaced... oh, it's too much work... tranny, engine axles... all wrong... :( 5) 79 J10 - down Oklahoma way, $1750... brian posted it earlier today. wrong axles, too far... :( 6) 80 J10 Honcho, short wheelbase, fleetside... 360 2v, at, np208, $3,000 needs paint... :( no roll bar in bed... exhaust leak, in Bay area maybe I should think this one over some more... What's a paint job cost? Maybe a grand for a fair one??? Of course if I paint it light Ivory Creme it immediatley looses the HONCHO decals... and any value... I could buy the 76 J10 (below), swap axles and driveline and have my shortbox... too much work... :( 7) 76 J10 - short fleetside, 360 4v, 4speed, np208 $1,000 needs paint, has canopy, DRUM brakes front, arggghh... steering column buggered up, needs seat, railroad track front bumper... fair... I've got the guy down to $900, maybe less with some swapping... He's been trying to sell it for months without success... It wasn't running when I looked at it... I made an offer... we'll see... It'll need axles and an interior... and paint... If I get axles from the u-pickit in Portland for $300... hmmm... actually, with the 4speed and np208 all I really need is disc in the front... hmmm... and a steering column... which I have from Tacoma... Maybe I should give this one some more thought... $2500 less than the SLC lwb rig... And I haven't looked at this week's "little nickel"... Ok, let's review what I'm wanting: Short box, preferably stepside (#2, #6, #7) modern xfr case (80 and up) NP242, NP229 or NP219 (#3, #6) At (#3, #6) ac (#3, #6) cruise (#6) tilt (#6) light ivory creme color (like the little wag) (#3 cameo tan) disc brakes in front (#3,#5,#6) decent economy (Diesel, 4.0L or 258) none of the above... yet... :) In the meantime I noticed that my 77 Wagoneer has a tranny cooler! :) time to call it a night... :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:05:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: combination valve question. A: I used a bent kitchen fork on mine! tacoma wrote: ok.. I'm about to put the new master cylinder in... my question is, how to hold in the metering valve on the combination valve? The '78 TSM states that the valves do NOT require recentering, but that they must be held open for bleeding. Anyone do this before? I'm sure I'll rig something up, barring a timely response hehe... I'm just curious mostly. Thanks!! --Tacoma Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:13:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: About my jeep. A: Selectrac is 229, right? or is it 208? I get confused! A 208 will wear itself to pieces and your tires if you drive around in 4 hi. (Come to think of it, 208 is Command trac right?) On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 TMartin79-at-aol.com wrote: Hey, it's me again. The guy with the 1983 Wagoneer Ltd. I have the selec-trac and I was wondering if it would be okay to leave it in 4 wheel high. Would it eat more gas or would the tires wear quicker? If you have an answer, let me know. Thanks a lot. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Tom It won't make a great deal of difference in mileage and will NOT wear the tires more. My 81 had the NP219 full time, never noticed any wear. You might see 1/2 mpg more in 2wd... and less wear and tear on the driveline. If you tow anything, use fulltime 4wd, it distributes the stress throughout the drivetrain. :) john Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:58:15 -0400 From: Phil Benchoff Subject: fsj: Wagoneer instrumentation update A while back I posted: > I'm the proud new owner of a 1980 Wagoneer (V8). Top of the list of > things I want to fix is some problems with the instrumentation. The > gas gauge doesn't work and the temp gauge is intermittent. The sender > on the gas tank appears fine, but there isn't any voltage going to it. > I have the Haynes manual, but the electrical diagrams don't go into > the details of the instrument cluster. If anybody has a better electrical > diagram or knows of a source, I'd like to hear about it. Does the factory > service manual go into the details of the wiring harness and have > schematics of the instrument circuit board? > > When I hook my voltmeter to the temp sender connection (when it's working) > there is a pulsed voltage (about 1/s). Is this expected? > The manual says something about a 5V regulator, but doesn't describe > what it looks like. > > Problem #2 is with lubricating the things that don't have grease fittings. > I got a needle adapter from my local auto parts store, but it doesn't > fit in the holes. The end is beveled and it won't seal against the hole > from the outside either. It's the only type the store has. Do these > things come in different sizes? I thought I'd post an update since others may find the information useful. The temperature gauge was fixed by tightening the nuts that hold it to the circuit board. The CVR (5v regulator) does indeed have a set of points and it has an on/off cycle of about 1/s. Pulsing voltage is normal. The gauges are actually bi-metal coils that are heated by whatever current flows through the fuel/temp/oil-pressure senders. The gas gauge is still not working, but it appears good back to where the wires go over the gas tank to the sender. The previous owner claims he replaced the sender, but the resistance reads wrong. It may be a problem with one of he connectors on the wires going from the harness to the gas tank. The needle adapter I had was the wrong thing. The adapter I had was a very large needle with a beveled end (much like the medical variety). The correct adapter is larger and has an end that is conical. The end of the adapter seals against the holes and does not go inside. I found mine on the Snapon truck, part YA761, $18.95. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:55:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: 205 The only drivers side front output 205 is the ford version. I'm pretty sure Dodge quit using the NP205 when they switched from a passenger side front pumkin to a drivers side front pumpkin in 94?? All NP205 mounting patterns are not the same -- infact, they are all different. So are the input spline counts. So it would take a little work or money to mount the Ford NP205 to a GM TH400. But maybe not. I'm pretty sure all NP205 x-fer cases use an adaptor between the transmission and the xfer case. Maybe the cases all share the same bolt pattern and the adaptor is all that is different?? Don't know. You could probably swap inputs in the NP205 and put a chevy input in the ford case (PROBABLY) to solve the input spline count problems. But don't assume since they are all NP205s, everything is interchangeable. Another option would be to go to a manual transmission. If you used either a Ford NP435 or Ford BW T18 heavy duty truck 4-speed, you could mount an NP205 to the back using Ford OEM parts. The Ford tranmission to bellhousing bolt pattern is the same as the Jeep belhousing to T-150 or T-176 transmission bolt pattern. So its pretty easy to do that swap. You would need to get a special pilot bushing for the crank because Ford used a different size than AMC, but these are available from Advanced Adaptors for a few bucks I think. I have the NP435 in my 81 Bronco, and I love it. First gear is 6.69:1. But I understand lots of folks want to keep their auto transmission. - -brad Dave writes: > Whit, > > These are just thoughts. GM used th400 to 205, so there's an adapter they sit > taller though so maybe some creative mounting. If the th400 is from a qt the > tail shaft won't work. you'll have to change to the adapter or input gear > which ever way 205's work. Late dodges and 70's ford's use driver side front > output's. I'd imagine that all 205's have the same bolting flange, but watch > the t/c's 203's and 205's look a lot a like. > > Dave GuyJeepin-at-aol.com > > ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #533 *************************