From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Sep 8 08:26:27 1999 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 8 1999 Volume 01 : Number 542 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: J10 decisions... fsj: Re: Shocks for sale fsj: dome light fsj: Re: xj: jeep parts fo' sale fsj: fuel problems fo' sure... Re: fsj: dome light fsj: Re: xj: jeep parts fo' sale fsj: Re: 258 MPI update please? Re: fsj: Re: 258 MPI update please? fsj: mold... Re: fsj: fuel problems fo' sure... Re: fsj: dome light Re: fsj: Re: xj: jeep parts fo' sale FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:18:32 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: J10 decisions... I'm beginning to wonder if I should spend $2,500 for an 80 Honcho that needs body work and paint when I could pay $900 for a 76 J10 that needs body work and paint... of course the 76 has the 4speed and may already be sold... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:02:52 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Shocks for sale Allan, you can have them... they go down but don't come up... they were pretty well worn by the time I took them off of Old Blue... :( when I first posted I hadn't looked at 'em closely... they are the 5113's, but they all go down and don't come back up... :( (2 of 'em came off of the 78). Kind of makes me think twice about doing Rancho's again... I mean they were only on Old Blue for about 3 years, hardly any miles on 'em at all... Maybe I should consider exercising the limited lifetime warranty... of course technically I don't have Old Blue anymore so I should have done it right away... :( Fwiw, I have six of 'em... they're in the freebie pile. :) I'll set 'em aside if I know you're coming for 'em. how bad is the wag? don't you hate our roads around here? sheesh, in the midwest you can travel as fast in the ditch as you can the road... :) I took the shoulder/ditch at 70mph once in my Mustang to dodge a pheasant... not a problem, came right back on the road without much more than a cloud of dust and a loss of speed. :) I still believe that Snohomish is an old Indian word that means "Bad roads with no shoulders..." john At 07:23 PM 9/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >>4 Rancho 5000s, can't remember if they came off of my xj or Old Blue, >>either way, they'll fit either an FSJ or an XJ. cheap, make an offer. > >John, > still got these? If so' and they fit FSJ (5113's? I think?) I'm >interested in them for my NEXT >FSJ. If I can get the insurance guy to cough up some $$$ for the bent one. > >Allan Weidenheimer > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:02:39 EDT From: Grtdaneguy-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: dome light The dome light and rear cargo lights in my 1981 wagoneer do not work. The fuses are good but there is no power to the light. Before I go tearing everything apart I was wondering if anyone has had this problem so i may find a starting point. Any suggestions would be great. Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: jeep parts fo' sale On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Paul W. wrote: >-->When they first came out they were ~$1800 - but I think they've gone up to >-->~$2300 now. Bill's an AA dealer and _MIGHT_ be able to save you a little... >--> >-->But when you figure you're gonna spend ~$1K for a 4:1 and add 2WD Lo (for how >-->ever much they get for that now...) and IF you were to spend the $$ on a good >-->SYE - added to what you'll pay for a 231, you can see how the Atlas starts to >-->look pretty reasonable. when I looked into getting a 4:1 for this 231 I have on the bench the price tag on the parts was closer to $1,500... What's a SYE, close to 5 bills? You've got me thinking about the Atlas for an FSJ... they can make 'em dump on either side don'tcha know... :) Maybe I should do the 76 J10 with the T-18 4speed, get a front axle with discs and an atlas to fit whatever axle I end up with... :) Hey, how hard would it be to swap the drums for discs on an open knuckle dana44F? I can't believe they actually sold the 76 J10 with MANUAL DRUM brakes in front!!! john >--> >-->I think 95 is when the yoke style changed. >--> >-->Paul W >--> >--> >-->--- Mike Wilson wrote: >-->> I wasn't really thinking about a sye or cv shaft too much. I don't >-->> seem to have any vibe problems but was thinking about 4:1 and 2 >-->> wheel low range. Aren't the 231 and 207 cases about the same size >-->> and length? Somewhere along the way the rear output changed to an >-->> external slip yoke and I'd like to have one from before that >-->> happened. also I'm wondering if the speedo became electronic at >-->> some point. How much is an Atlas case anyway? >-->> -- >-->> Mike Wilson >-->> Croton, Ohio >-->> 1986 Cherokee >-->> http://www.johnstown.net/users/wally1/ >-->> >-->> >--> >-->__________________________________________________ >-->Do You Yahoo!? >-->Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:51:15 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: fuel problems fo' sure... Ok, came home with a trailer full of gas cans... I put about 2 gallons or so in the tank, poured some down the carb, and voila, the 77 Wagoneer lit off with no problems... then kinda sputtered and died... Hmmm... pump pedal, crank a bit, then pour more gas in carb... lights off and runs for a bit longer... give it gas and it dies... hmmm... looks like fuel starvation to me... cough, sputter... gasp... phhhtt. Ok, pull the fuel line to the filter... hey, there's supposed to be a bunch of stinking, smelly, gas here... there ain't none... Ok, leave hose off, crank... gas sorta spurts out... but not the steady stream it should be... Ok, so, with dual tanks, when you run out of gas... and you put in, oh, say 2 or three gallons, WHICH WAY DOES THE FLIPPIN' SWITCH go so you get gas? Experimentation is time consuming as the battery only lasts just so long and I have to exchange it with a fresh one of the battery charger... :) I may wire in an electric fuel pump... I'm beginning to think this thing may have a bad fuel pump (the gauge doesn't work and I've put at least 3 or 4 gallons in this thing since June... :) Can I just attach a pump to the line going into the filter or do I have to like crawl under the silly thing? There is grass down there... and I'm allergic to grass... and gasoline... (both really stink too... :) Anyways, that's what I did tonight... It is definetly NOT getting fuel into the carb... Hey, I remember a trick I learned from a buddy who drove the burned out J10 here... He basically setup a gravity feed system! :) might work... I supposed I should find and locate nearby the fire extinguisher... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:54:28 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: dome light At 11:02 PM 9/7/99 EDT, Grtdaneguy-at-aol.com wrote: > The dome light and rear cargo lights in my 1981 wagoneer do not work. The >fuses are good but there is no power to the light. Before I go tearing >everything apart I was wondering if anyone has had this problem so i may find >a starting point. Any suggestions would be great. Joe Ok, this is very similar to the GM system... the door switch, or the headlight switch places a ground on one side causing the light to come on. If you look at the light with a meter you should see positive voltage on both sides of the light... soooo... if ya got no voltage then I'd follow the wire to figure which one goes to the door switch and which one is supposed to have "juice". The power comes off of a plug in into the fuse box and gets routed about a halfdozen ways in brown and or orange wire... What I'd do is make yourself a jumper lead with a fuse close to one end... take the fused end and attach it to a power source in the fuse panel, take the other end and touch one end of the dome light... Or, you could use an ohm meter and figure which side reads 0 ohms to the chassis. I doubt the problem is in your headliner... it'll be a bad door switch or missing power lead... it's a rats nest under that dash... happy hunting... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:38:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: jeep parts fo' sale how much do the xfr cases vary in size? it seems to me the NP219,and 229 are the same size, same with the NP207, 231, 242 and, for that matter I think the 229 is the same size as the 207... They all LOOK like they're the same size... but I know there must be some differences because of the slip yoke on some... the tail shafts seem to vary in length... Where does someone go to get this info? I mean besides Paul on the XJ list and Brad on the FSJ list? :) john On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Paul W. wrote: >-->Oh, and yes, the 207 and 231 are _about_ the same size - but I haven't taped >-->the two to see if they are the same or not... a visit to the local yard with >-->your handy tape measure would be the quickest way to verify that. :) >--> >-->Paul W >--> >--> >-->Mike Wilson wrote: >-->> I wasn't really thinking about a sye or cv shaft too much. I don't >-->> seem to have any vibe problems but was thinking about 4:1 and 2 >-->> wheel low range. Aren't the 231 and 207 cases about the same size >-->> and length? Somewhere along the way the rear output changed to an >-->> external slip yoke and I'd like to have one from before that >-->> happened. also I'm wondering if the speedo became electronic at >-->> some point. How much is an Atlas case anyway? >-->> -- >-->> Mike Wilson >-->> Croton, Ohio >-->> 1986 Cherokee >-->> http://www.johnstown.net/users/wally1/ >-->> >-->> >--> >-->__________________________________________________ >-->Do You Yahoo!? >-->Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** Snohomish, Washington USA don't leave life without jesus, please... http://wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:58:23 -0700 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: fsj: Re: 258 MPI update please? john wrote: > > Tom, > > I'm curious how your Chero is doing with squirters. :) > It's doing great. Over 1.5 years of trouble-free operation. I haven't had much time to work on the beast lately except for necessary repairs like the driveshaft U-joint I had to replace last weekend. I've been too busy with a new job. I left Litton for a local company that's owned by a privately held German outfit called Karl Storz....we make video cameras and processing boxes for medical and industrial endoscopes. I've hired in as the R&D Mechanical Engineer ("idea guy") reporting directly to the Director of technology. Very cool place to work and very cool products. The best part is that I can work a 4 day work week of 10 hrs per day and have fridays off. > I'm getting close to getting an 80 J10 Honcho. It has the > 360-2v, tf727 and NP208... It's a fresh engine so if I do > anything it'll probably be the Projection (or equivalent) setup > like Ray in MI did. (it has the Jacobs ignition setup right now, > the guy is getting around 12mpg... :( > Sounds cool....I'd stick with the V8 since it comes with it (too much hassle, really, to switch engines) and go with the projection and the Doug Thorley's like Michael B's Cherokee. We all know that AMC V8 heads flow really well...you just need to open up the intake/exhaust tracts to take advantage from an efficiency standpoint. Anything you can do to increase the engine system's volumetric efficiency will improve the partial throttle fuel economy. > The idea of an MPI 258 or even a 4.0L sounds pretty good. But not > for a while... motor only has 15K on it! Of course I'd love to drop a 6.5L > TD > in the thing, but not sure if I could make it happen with the emizzinazis, > might be able to... I have an owner's manual from 81 that talks > about the Diesel, so there is a chance I could show they made 'em > that way. :) > > Either that or I'll recycle a pre-68 J truck and set it up as a Diesel... > > someday... someday... :) > Let's see....since you sold Old Blue, I think these are "John's FSJ idea" numbers 53 and 54...... Later, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:39:55 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 258 MPI update please? At 06:58 PM 8/27/99 -0700, Thomas Anhalt wrote: >john wrote: >> >> Tom, >> >> I'm curious how your Chero is doing with squirters. :) >> >It's doing great. Over 1.5 years of trouble-free operation. I haven't >had much time to work on the beast lately except for necessary repairs >like the driveshaft U-joint I had to replace last weekend. I've been >too busy with a new job. I left Litton for a local company that's owned >by a privately held German outfit called Karl Storz....we make video >cameras and processing boxes for medical and industrial endoscopes. >I've hired in as the R&D Mechanical Engineer ("idea guy") reporting >directly to the Director of technology. Very cool place to work and >very cool products. The best part is that I can work a 4 day work week >of 10 hrs per day and have fridays off. > >> I'm getting close to getting an 80 J10 Honcho. It has the >> 360-2v, tf727 and NP208... It's a fresh engine so if I do >> anything it'll probably be the Projection (or equivalent) setup >> like Ray in MI did. (it has the Jacobs ignition setup right now, >> the guy is getting around 12mpg... :( >> > >Sounds cool....I'd stick with the V8 since it comes with it (too much >hassle, really, to switch engines) and go with the projection and the >Doug Thorley's like Michael B's Cherokee. We all know that AMC V8 heads >flow really well...you just need to open up the intake/exhaust tracts to >take advantage from an efficiency standpoint. Anything you can do to >increase the engine system's volumetric efficiency will improve the >partial throttle fuel economy. > >> The idea of an MPI 258 or even a 4.0L sounds pretty good. But not >> for a while... motor only has 15K on it! Of course I'd love to drop a 6.5L >> TD >> in the thing, but not sure if I could make it happen with the emizzinazis, >> might be able to... I have an owner's manual from 81 that talks >> about the Diesel, so there is a chance I could show they made 'em >> that way. :) >> >> Either that or I'll recycle a pre-68 J truck and set it up as a Diesel... >> >> someday... someday... :) >> > >Let's see....since you sold Old Blue, I think these are "John's FSJ >idea" numbers 53 and 54...... > >Later, >Tom well, maybe idea 55 and 56... I'm thinking that spending $2500 for an 80 honcho down in California to get a V8 with tf727 and nP208 with a dinged body and bad paint, vs. a 76 short wb v8 with T-18 and dana20 for $1000, also with some dings (and a bit of rust in the bed) and bad paint might make more sense... shoot... I've got to get the 77 wagoneer out of here first... either my friend Tom is gonna buy it or I'll fix it enough for Ben to drive it home and he'll buy it... it looks great... put a new windshield in it and a new carb... God only knows what else it will need... it's one system at a time... right now I think the fuel pump maybe shot, either that or I put the switch in the wrong position for the dual tanks... :} I already did that once before... :) Hey, you didn't say what your MPG is!!! BTW, I'm still with Intermec... the Senior Engineering CAD System Administrator... same kind of deal like you... lot of freedom in what I do. They're treating me pretty well. I support a lot of folks like you. :) have 70 HP and Sun systems... I'm also trying to hire another Solaris Admin... hope all is well with you and your family! john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:59:09 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: mold... more than Jeeps mold up here... :) john Mold Delays School Opening (SEATTLE) - Thousands of Seattle students are heading off for their first day of school this morning. But Wedgwood Elementary students get one more day off. Remodelers found a type of toxic mold growing near the school's roof, and the clean-up is still underway. Several other school districts are also giving their students one more day of summer, and have scheduled their first day of classes tomorrow. - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:31:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: fuel problems fo' sure... A: Should have asked me while I was there! Put it in the line before the fuel pump, or better yet, remove the pump in case it's leaking into the motor.(For temporary. It needs to go near the fuel switch otherwise to keep pressure up. J: Ok, came home with a trailer full of gas cans... I put about 2 gallons or so in the tank, poured some down the carb, and voila, the 77 Wagoneer lit off with no problems... then kinda sputtered and died... Hmmm... pump pedal, crank a bit, then pour more gas in carb... lights off and runs for a bit longer... give it gas and it dies... hmmm... looks like fuel starvation to me... cough, sputter... gasp... phhhtt. Ok, pull the fuel line to the filter... hey, there's supposed to be a bunch of stinking, smelly, gas here... there ain't none... Ok, leave hose off, crank... gas sorta spurts out... but not the steady stream it should be... Ok, so, with dual tanks, when you run out of gas... and you put in, oh, say 2 or three gallons, WHICH WAY DOES THE FLIPPIN' SWITCH go so you get gas? Experimentation is time consuming as the battery only lasts just so long and I have to exchange it with a fresh one of the battery charger... :) I may wire in an electric fuel pump... I'm beginning to think this thing may have a bad fuel pump (the gauge doesn't work and I've put at least 3 or 4 gallons in this thing since June... :) Can I just attach a pump to the line going into the filter or do I have to like crawl under the silly thing? =A0 There is grass down there... and I'm allergic to grass... and gasoline... (both really stink too... :) Anyways, that's what I did tonight... It is definetly NOT getting fuel into the carb... Hey, I remember a trick I learned from a buddy who drove the burned out J10 here... He basically setup a gravity feed system! :) might work... I supposed I should find and locate nearby the fire extinguisher... john Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:35:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: dome light The wires for the interior light run next to the driver's seat and plugin just above the highbeam switch. How do I know? After I pulled the moldy smelly carpet out of Elmo, I tripped over the wires and haven't had an interior light since! At 11:02 PM 9/7/99 EDT, Grtdaneguy-at-aol.com wrote: =A0=A0The dome light and rear cargo lights in my 1981 wagoneer do not work. The fuses are good but there is no power to the light. Before I go tearing everything apart I was wondering if anyone has had this problem so i may find a starting point. Any suggestions would be great. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0Joe Ok, this is very similar to the GM system... the door switch, or the headlight switch places a ground on one side causing the light to come on. If you look at the light with a meter you should see positive voltage on both sides of the light... soooo... if ya got no voltage then I'd follow the wire to figure which one goes to the door switch and which one is supposed to have "juice". The power comes off of a plug in into the fuse box and gets routed about a halfdozen ways in brown and or orange wire... =A0 What I'd do is make yourself a jumper lead with a fuse close to one end... take the fused end and attach it to a power source in the fuse panel, take the other end and touch one end of the dome light... Or, you could use an ohm meter and figure which side reads 0 ohms to the chassis. I doubt the problem is in your headliner... it'll be a bad door switch or missing power lead... it's a rats nest under that dash... happy hunting... john Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfal= se ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:39:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: xj: jeep parts fo' sale A: I think the 207 is the same length as the 208 (it has no differential inside), which is 5.5" shorter than the NP229, NP219, NP228, NV249 (slip yoke rear unfortunately). Did someone compare NV231 to the NP229 yet? J: how much do the xfr cases vary in size? it seems to me the NP219,and 229 are the same size, same with the NP207, 231, 242 and, for that matter I think the 229 is the same size as the 207... They all LOOK like they're the same size... but I know there must be some differences because of the slip yoke on some... the tail shafts seem to vary in length... Where does someone go to get this info? I mean besides Paul on the XJ list and Brad on the FSJ list? :) john On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Paul W. wrote: Oh, and yes, the 207 and 231 are _about_ the same size - but I haven't taped the two to see if they are the same or not... a visit to the local yard with your handy tape measure would be the quickest way to verify that. :) Paul W Mike Wilson wrote: I wasn't really thinking about a sye or cv shaft too much. I don't seem to have any vibe problems but was thinking about 4:1 and 2 wheel low range. Aren't the 231 and 207 cases about the same size and length? Somewhere along the way the rear output changed to an external slip yoke and I'd like to have one from before that happened. also I'm wondering if the speedo became electronic at some point. How much is an Atlas case anyway? - -- Mike Wilson Croton, Ohio 1986 Cherokee http://www.johnstown.net/users/wally1/ ________ Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #542 *************************