From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 18 14:25:19 1999 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, October 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number 582 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Tranny failure fsj: Front Axle Ratio Re: fsj: Front Axle Ratio Re: fsj: Front Axle and rear axle fsj: gears and things fsj: Re: need help w/ rough country lift... Re: fsj: Front Axle and rear axle Re: fsj: gears and things Re: fsj: gears and things Re: fsj: gears and things fsj: re: gears and stuff fsj: FSJ's for sale Re: fsj: another adventure... fsj: AMC bolt kit fsj: FWD from [JEEP-L] Jeep Parts Sale or Trade Re: fsj: another adventure... fsj: so long and thanks for all the fish Re: fsj: so long and thanks for all the fish FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Tranny failure Got the only good break of the entire weekend. A friend knew the guy who owned the impound lot & he got me in to fetch the truck today. 130 miles later, I've got it home & the pan off. One last insult was I picked up a nail in the right front tire while the truck was in his lot. The tow bill was 51 bucks. A: That's pretty reasonable. My son's girlfriend has to fork over $280 to the tow yard that scooped her Jetta, because a Red Chinese Monkey Patrol officer (RCMP) went ape on her yesterday after a minor fender bender, when it was the other person that accelerated into her at an intersection, just because the light turned green. The only reason they stopped was because their air bags went off. They drove nearly 2 blocks past before coming back. My son's friend was in the car, and hit his head through the passenger side window, even though he was wearing his belt, and is in the hospital. The light changed when she was 1/2 way across the intersection behind a slow moving truck when she was hit, and since there was only the truck in front of her, she figured to make the green light. Turns out I was only 6 inches over onto the small town's post office parking lot (this town is about 300 people). The gal that runs the post office is a real hag (I was told by the tow driver) wouldn't listen to his offer to just move the truck a little bit to clear the parking lot. A: Get a statement from him right away, and point out that was PUBLIC owned property you were towed from. I'd make things real nasty for the hag myself, but I don't take BS! I didn't even realize what the buiding was when we left the truck there. I was just looking for a well lite area with enough room for me to get my tow dolly to it. No real surprises in the pan (this is an '83 J-10 Laredo, BTW). No chunks of face material, no pieces of sprag clutch, no broken servo spring (from what I can tell). The filter didn't look all gooked over either. Looks like fun fun fun this week. Mike S. A: Very little material in the pan? Your front clutch seal may have blown, or the torque converter went out. It almost sounds like the rear of the case broke loose though, but that generally only happens under heavy load, unless it was weakened before, and slapped from reverse to drive. At 01:00 PM 10/17/99 -0700, James Blair wrote: A: Is your J10 a post '80? If so, it sounds like your high clutches went, and plugged the filter screen. You could have dropped the pan, cleaned the screen, and carried on in 2nd gear. Was it getting real slow to shift to reverse or shuddering when you back up? That's the usual warning the high clutches are getting ready to go, because they are shared with reverse. Mike wrote: Had a B*tch of a weekend so far. Friday night the tranny in my J-10 made one odd shift while we were bringing some tables to set up a car show we were hosting. There were 3 of us in the cab & it flared on the 2 to 3 shift, but just briefly, as thou it had been accidently knocked out of gear. But it did it only one time on a 75 mile trip. Then later it did it again while on our way to the town where the show was. Then on the final leg of the trip, it failed all together. Just slips instead of going into 3rd. Trying to limp it to a safe place to park, it started slipping in 2nd also. Had to get a ride back home to get the wagoneer & tow dolly to finish taking the studebakers to the show (Sonya wont' drive a stick). By the time I got back to pick oup the truck, it had been towed & impounded. I've got 3 very old & good condition 8 foot cafeteria tables in the back, & it started raining last night. They will be ruined by the time I can get the truck out of the impound. What a sucky day. I think I'm going to try to sue who ever had it towed. Mike S. A: Did you leave a note on the window? Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Stop the Chemtrails! My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:57:45 -0700 From: Pat Hines Subject: fsj: Front Axle Ratio I've checked and verified the front axle ratio as the stock 3.54:1. I used the "jack up one wheel and count the turns" method to first check the ratio (not really dead on accurate, but close) then discovered the tag was in an unexpected location high up on the front diff, oriented vertically. I took a picture of the tag and will post it on the "album" web site in a few days. As usual, one bit of information leads to another mystery. I found a metal tag loose in the back of the Cherokee during my initial clean up. When cleaned up with a scotch brite pad it revealed that it was a "limited slip lubrication" warning tag. Since that item wasn't supposed to be standard or optional with this vehicle, I'm curious to know what's in the rear diff. I'll know in a few days whether one of the PO's added another component to my Jeep, or not. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:08:07 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Front Axle Ratio most likely a trac-lock a limited slip unit that uses little clutch plates... the little wagoneer has one, they're ok... I've had mine rebuilt already... now this is assuming it's not an older FSJ, in which case you could have the older style limited slip which is very nice. the additive smells very, very nasty... don't get any on you, the ground, clothing or anything else you intend to keep or be near for several months... a skunk doesn't smell as bad. :) john At 06:57 PM 10/17/99 -0700, Pat Hines wrote: > I've checked and verified the front axle ratio as the stock 3.54:1. I >used the "jack up one wheel and count the turns" method to first check >the ratio (not really dead on accurate, but close) then discovered the >tag was in an unexpected location high up on the front diff, oriented >vertically. I took a picture of the tag and will post it on the "album" >web site in a few days. > > As usual, one bit of information leads to another mystery. I found a >metal tag loose in the back of the Cherokee during my initial clean up. >When cleaned up with a scotch brite pad it revealed that it was a >"limited slip lubrication" warning tag. Since that item wasn't supposed >to be standard or optional with this vehicle, I'm curious to know what's >in the rear diff. > > I'll know in a few days whether one of the PO's added another component >to my Jeep, or not. > > >Pat > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:31:53 -0700 From: Pat Hines Subject: Re: fsj: Front Axle and rear axle john wrote: > At 06:57 PM 10/17/99 -0700, Pat Hines wrote: > > I've checked and verified the front axle ratio as the stock 3.54:1. I > >used the "jack up one wheel and count the turns" method to first check > >the ratio (not really dead on accurate, but close) then discovered the > >tag was in an unexpected location high up on the front diff, oriented > >vertically. I took a picture of the tag and will post it on the "album" > >web site in a few days. > > > > As usual, one bit of information leads to another mystery. I found a > >metal tag loose in the back of the Cherokee during my initial clean up. > >When cleaned up with a scotch brite pad it revealed that it was a > >"limited slip lubrication" warning tag. Since that item wasn't supposed > >to be standard or optional with this vehicle, I'm curious to know what's > >in the rear diff. > > > > I'll know in a few days whether one of the PO's added another component > >to my Jeep, or not. > > > > > >Pat > > most likely a trac-lock a limited slip unit that uses > little clutch plates... the little wagoneer has one, they're ok... > I've had mine rebuilt already... > > now this is assuming it's not an older FSJ, in which case you could > have the older style limited slip which is very nice. > > the additive smells very, very nasty... don't get any on you, the > ground, clothing or anything else you intend to keep or be near for > several months... a skunk doesn't smell as bad. :) > > john It could be just a tag that was for something else in another vehicle. In any case, the standard seepage around those wonderful Dana rubber plugs is standard gear lube. That wonderful sulphur smell is a dead give away. It wouldn't be the first time someone has filled a limited slop diff with the wrong lube. The most likely thing is that it is a standard open diff. I'll be installing at least 4.10, or 4.56, ring & pinion sets next spring, if the creek don't rise. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: gears and things Anyone know what the model 20 gear carrier break points are? I know the 2.72 will go as high as 2.35, but no lower. And 2.87 is the start on the next range, with either 3.55 or 3.77, but which? I have 2 sets of 3.08 Dana 44 gears and at least one carrier that I won't be using if anyone wants to swap for 2.72 or 3.07 model 20 or 2.72 dana 30 (model 15) straight cut gears. Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs Stop the Chemtrails! My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:40:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: need help w/ rough country lift... Hi James - Just finished getting the rear springs on!! Man what a chore - Turns out they are the right springs, However - R/C put the wedges on backwards - once I figured that out the springs went in like greased lightning (almost - one spring has a slight twist on the back half - made for an interesting time getting the shackle bolt in) Thanks very much for the help - I can not get over the difference in height - had no idea just how bad the rears were sagging! Jon - partially lifted '87 GW A: Did you see the post about the spring eyes being backwards? Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:21:19 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Front Axle and rear axle It doesn't smell after it's been in the pumpkin for very long... It'll feel like an open because it's probably worn out. I've also heard that running them without the additive while using AMSOIL Synthetic Gear Lube is fine... At least that's what my mechanic said on my 85 xj... We ran it without for a little bit until I could get some, then we added it... I've got a TrueTrac in the Dana30 front axle on my little wagoneer (an XJ), it's great! I've also heard good things about the Auburn Limited Slip setup... I think that's what was in my 67 Wagoneer... dunno... Old Blue had open axles fore and aft and did fine. but what do you expect for a full size jeep with an NP219? :) john >> john > > It could be just a tag that was for something else in another vehicle. >In any case, the standard seepage around those wonderful Dana rubber >plugs is standard gear lube. That wonderful sulphur smell is a dead >give away. It wouldn't be the first time someone has filled a limited >slop diff with the wrong lube. > > The most likely thing is that it is a standard open diff. > > I'll be installing at least 4.10, or 4.56, ring & pinion sets next >spring, if the creek don't rise. > > >Pat > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:05:11 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: gears and things the jeep dealer will be able to tell... they'll sort it out by part numbers... either that or Reider Racing, or Randy's ring & pinion or even olympic... john At 08:03 PM 10/17/99 -0700, James Blair wrote: >Anyone know what the model 20 gear carrier break points are? I know the >2.72 will go as high as 2.35, but no lower. And 2.87 is the start on the >next range, with either 3.55 or 3.77, but which? I have 2 sets of 3.08 >Dana 44 gears and at least one carrier that I won't be using if anyone >wants to swap for 2.72 or 3.07 model 20 or 2.72 dana 30 (model 15) >straight cut gears. > >Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee 4 dr 4.2L six, 999 AT, Manual hubs >Stop the Chemtrails! My Homepage: >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html FREE Online Photo Album: >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:17:29 -0700 From: Pat Hines Subject: Re: fsj: gears and things James Blair wrote: > > Anyone know what the model 20 gear carrier break points are? I know the > 2.72 will go as high as 2.35, but no lower. And 2.87 is the start on the > next range, with either 3.55 or 3.77, but which? I have 2 sets of 3.08 > Dana 44 gears and at least one carrier that I won't be using if anyone > wants to swap for 2.72 or 3.07 model 20 or 2.72 dana 30 (model 15) > straight cut gears. > > Jim Blair My trusty 4Wheel Parts Wholesale catalog says the Jeep model 20 low gear case is for 2.73 only and the high gear case is for 3.07 to 4.56. The break point for the Dana 44 is low case for 3.73 and lower and high gear case for 3.92 through 5.89. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:44:30 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: gears and things sounds about right. when I looked at regearing Old Blue I was looking at new carriers... :( john At 09:17 PM 10/17/99 -0700, Pat Hines wrote: >James Blair wrote: >> >> Anyone know what the model 20 gear carrier break points are? I know the >> 2.72 will go as high as 2.35, but no lower. And 2.87 is the start on the >> next range, with either 3.55 or 3.77, but which? I have 2 sets of 3.08 >> Dana 44 gears and at least one carrier that I won't be using if anyone >> wants to swap for 2.72 or 3.07 model 20 or 2.72 dana 30 (model 15) >> straight cut gears. >> >> Jim Blair > > My trusty 4Wheel Parts Wholesale catalog says the Jeep model 20 low >gear case is for 2.73 only and the high gear case is for 3.07 to 4.56. > > The break point for the Dana 44 is low case for 3.73 and lower and high >gear case for 3.92 through 5.89. > > >Pat > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 00:30:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: re: gears and stuff Oops! I goofed on the Eagle rear axles! They are Dana 35 non-clips (model 15), not Dana 30s Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:10:44 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: FSJ's for sale There seem to be more than usual in the latest Wheel Deals. Must be the season. There's a '91 Wag, '79 Cherokee, and a few '80's models in between Some are even John's favorite color - baby puke white. If anybody's looking or wants more info let me know. The unusual find is as follows: Hunter's Special '69 Jeep Pickup, 350 AT, new tranny, exhaust, tires, needs some TLC, runs great. $1600 OBO 509-887-2307 It appears to be a pretty stock, short wheelbase model with a good bed. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:15:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: another adventure... Ya, the front springs came off of a late 70s cherokee at Beaverton Light Truck. I bought the rear springs at the same time. - -brad John writes: > let's see... the springs started out with Fredric down in Portland. > I bought 'em, took 'em up here to Snohomish. Then Greg bought 'em and > brought 'em back to Portland... now James is gonna bring 'em back up here... > > Greg, didn't you have more info on where Fred got 'em, or was that Brad? :) > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:04:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: AMC bolt kit Don't know if any of you would be interested in this (especially with the recent posts about mr Allen and his keys! ) but: MMSACC-at-aol.com Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 9:15am (PDT+3) To: carnuck-at-webtv.net Subject: kit new products FOR AMC we are now selling our line of stainless hex head engine kits (304-360-390-401) contains-intake-water neck-water pump-timing cover-oil pan-dist.hold down-valve covers-fuel pump- 137 pieces hex head retail-$30.00 Polished hex head-$80.00 mention your club recieve 10% off If your club buys 5 kits at a time we pay shipping mms & accessories 1-800-441-9451 24 hr fax. 1-770-607-7131 http://members.aol.com/mmsacc Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:30:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: FWD from [JEEP-L] Jeep Parts Sale or Trade A: He's got the parts I need, but still too far away! Maybe one of you guys might need a Dana 300 or 20? schulzle-at-alfred.edu (Schulze,=A0Luke=A0E) Date: Mon, Oct 18, 1999, 8:14am (PDT+3) To: jeep-l-at-mailinglists.org Cc: schulzle-at-alfred.edu (Schulze, Luke E) Subject: [JEEP-L] Jeep Parts Sale or Trade Reply=A0to: jeep-l-at-mailinglists.org I am almost done with my CJ7 project (at least to get it on the road again:) and I need to clean out some of the stuff I havn't used...After making this list I can't believe the amount of Jeep stuff I have accumulated in the past 2 yrs! =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0On anything make me an offer or I am also very willing to TRADE.... =A0 =A0 =A0 (I'm located in Upstate, NY) Here's what I've got: AXLE STUFF - - '79 Dana 30 axle with disc brakes, 3.07 gears, all there except hubs and shafts $75 - - '78 Dana 30 housing yolk to yolk & 3.54 gears $40 - - '77 Dana 30 3.54 gears & carrier, excellent $50 - - '74 Dana 44 rear housing $25 - - Dana 44, 3.54 gears & a true track with 1or2 hurt gears $30 - - AMC 20 housing & 3.54 gears...FREE...pair of axles - - '79 AMC 20 complete all there, I think 3.07's $10/FREE TRANNY/TCASE STUFF - - T-150 Started to take apart complete/looks good $40 - - T-18 J-Truck tranny with 6.32 1st (long nose) $275 - - '79 Dana 20 $50, new style yolks - - '78 Dana 20 $75 - - '77 Dana 20 Hurst shifter, very clean (~50k miles) $100 - - Dana 300 $200 - - also have a full set of stock dana 300 gears ??? ENGINE STUFF - - Like new Flex Fan (SBC or other?) paid $35 - $10 - - 304; oil pan $10, valve covers $5, T150 bellhousing (w/clutch arm...) $20, smog pump/Al bracket ??, block (crank spun bearing...FREE), 2 barrel intake FREE, - - '78 258; Complete engine - Parts or Whole...radiator, starter, dist, fly...make offer T150/258 belhousing (w/clutch arm..) $20 BODY PARTS - - '79 CJ7 Hard Doors Solid...BUT DON"T FIT ANYMORE with my full roll cage:( (old style) brown/tan interior - Make offer... - - Pair of CJ7 Cloth 1/2 doors, old but no rips, good for keeping mud out $25 - - Full CJ7 stock top & cloth doors, older but all pieces still there $55 - - '78 CJ7 grill with or without all lights and trim rings... - - '78 CJ7 Tailgate, solid $18 - - 3 hard tops all < $90 (2 white, 1 black all fiberglass including rear gate) MISC - - early CJ heater assembly pre'77 $10 - - 304 power steering pump and large AL bracket - - Willys speedo (I think) FREE - - Centerforce Stage II Clutch disc for SBC 23 spline - - Manual steering box w/pitman arm and steering shaft - - '78 steering colum/wheel no key $10 - - Grab bars 1 blk, 1 old chrome $5 each Chrome Stuff: Hood Hinges, Windshield Knobs, Windshield Plates, Glove box door, all like new... - - 3 15x8 white wagon rims with older 30-31" tires Bunch of small misc stuff... WANTED: New style soft top (zip out windows, no snaps), york air comp, 35" BFG MT's or 35-38 SS of some sort (stuff everyone wants:), and ??? =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Have Fun! Luke '77 CJ7 SOA, Chevy 327, NV4500, Dana 30/60 open/detroit 4.10's, Dana 300 w/4:1, Twin Sticks Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:18:11 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: another adventure... so YOU were in the loop too? :) so it was Brad, Fred, John, Greg, and now James??? WHO's NEXT???? :-) john At 09:15 AM 10/18/99 -0700, Brad Seevers wrote: > >Ya, the front springs came off of a late 70s cherokee at Beaverton Light Truck. >I bought the rear springs at the same time. > >-brad > >John writes: > >> let's see... the springs started out with Fredric down in Portland. >> I bought 'em, took 'em up here to Snohomish. Then Greg bought 'em and >> brought 'em back to Portland... now James is gonna bring 'em back up here... >> >> Greg, didn't you have more info on where Fred got 'em, or was that Brad? :) >> >> john > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:42:31 -0700 (PDT) From: j masty Subject: fsj: so long and thanks for all the fish I've appreciated the tips and trivia garnered from this here list. Ended up bundling my 88 GW in with a deal my brother got for buying a mid-size car from a dealership. Got $4,000 on the trade-in which will make the bank happy. Might just have to get another FSJ when I get back from the Indian Ocean island. - -Jeff Masty Colo. Springs to Diego Garcia ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 12:37:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: so long and thanks for all the fish farewell and all that... :) best wishes. john On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, j masty wrote: >-->I've appreciated the tips and trivia garnered from >-->this here list. Ended up bundling my 88 GW in with a >-->deal my brother got for buying a mid-size car from a >-->dealership. Got $4,000 on the trade-in which will >-->make the bank happy. Might just have to get another >-->FSJ when I get back from the Indian Ocean island. >--> >-->-Jeff Masty >-->Colo. Springs to Diego Garcia >--> >--> >--> >-->===== >--> >-->__________________________________________________ >-->Do You Yahoo!? >-->Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA NOTE: Washington State has anti-spam laws: $500 per occurrence. (spam is unsolicitied commercial email.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #582 *************************