From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Oct 29 09:53:34 1999 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, October 29 1999 Volume 01 : Number 592 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer [none] Re: fsj: RE: For Sale: '83 Wagoneer with '78 WT running gear fsj: My dream waggy [was: For Sale: '83 Wagoneer...] fsj: Christmas run... fsj: FS: High-Temp Catalytic Cvtr Injection Hose fsj: 83 Wagoneer FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:04:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer A: Maybe they meant the valves were too tight, which would cause a low vacuum and high pollution problem, like a bad carb. Check to ensure the push rods can be turned easily with your fingers while the motor is running. If not, then shorter pushrods are available (use C#-at-v) Dear John, I have an 84 Grand Wagoneer. I just put in a rebuilt semi-high performance engine. I left the stock 2 barrel carb however. After getting the vehicle back, I noticed that it did not perform as I expected. I decided to have my 2 barrel rebuilt and upgraded. When I took the vehicle to the shop, they told me it was not a carb problem but an engine problem. I was told the engine was too tight. They said this was affecting the performance of the Jeep and the heads would have to be redone in order to for them to work on the carb. They came to this conclusion after the Jeep was placed on thier computer and the CO reading was 9.82 and the Hydro carbons were past 6,200. I was told the normal numbers are .50 and 100 to 150. I took the Jeep back to the engine company and they checked it out for two days. They told me the engine was fine and that the problem was the carburator. I called a friend of mine and posed the problem and he agreed with the engine shop. He said the problem is in the carburator and not the engine. I would like to get your opinion on this matter. What do they mean the engine is too tight? How is this corrected? I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Carlos Carlos, If that engine turns over and runs without heating up to the point of glowing red, it's not too tight. :) =A0 Does it run? How well does it run? I mean worse than before? =A0 IF you have stock tires and 2.72 gears you should see 0 to 60 times in the 14 to 17 second range... less time with lower gears of course. :) Can you turn the motor by hand by moving the accessories? Or by placing a socket on the harmonic balancer and move the motor? If you can move that motor by hand it's not too tight. So, I'm pretty sure there is nothing wrong with the "tightness" of the motor. You'd have other problems if that were true and would have little or no effect on the emissions. =A0 I'm having trouble understanding how doing something to the heads is gonna change the tightness of the motor. IF anything it'll be the rings that'll be "too tight". There are three possibilities to examine: Ignition/Valves/carb-vacuum One, is the ignition system firing properly on ALL cylinders? =A0 =A0 =A0 Are you using NEW and tested good wires? =A0 =A0 =A0 Are all the spark plugs correctly gapped and new? and tested? =A0 =A0 =A0 Is the timing correct, does it advance properly? Two, are all the cylinders functional? If there is a bad cam, or bad =A0 =A0 =A0 lifters, or bad rockers and one cylinder is "dead" this could =A0 =A0 =A0 affect things as well. =A0 To test, pull each spark plug and =A0 =A0 =A0 crank the motor, look inside and see if you can see the valves =A0 =A0 =A0 moving... place your thumb over the hole while it's cranking =A0 =A0 =A0 (remove the coil wire first) and see if pressure builds up and =A0 =A0 =A0 releases. Three, you have a serious problem with your Carb or a major, major =A0 =A0 =A0 vacuum leak. =A0 Did they replace all the vacuum lines with new? =A0 =A0 =A0 Is the EGR functional? Is the air pump system working? Is =A0 =A0 =A0 the catalytic converter working properly and not plugged? I've seen high hydrocarbons when I had two dead cylinders... bad plug =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0and bad wire... also had vacuum leaks. If you had someone install this engine have them check the manifold vacuum and vacuum line connections. Then have them check your plug wires and even do a compression test. All the cylinders should be pretty close. If you have one that's way off it could be your problem. (check the valves first, if they're going up and down and the cylinder is still low then it's quite possible that the rings were installed incorrectly... (they could all be lined up with each other creating a leak that doesn't allow complete combustion...) Let me know what you find... BTW, where are you located? For some reason I'm guessing California... not sure why... strange hunch or something... :) john Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:22:37 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Valves too tight like not going up and down and sticking? That should show up in a compression test too... Trying to keep him from pulling a valve cover. :) =20 I can't really see that happening... even if the seals were too tight the springs and the cam would easily overcome them. If the valve faces weren't right it could result in poor compression and result in the same thing... But the guy that diagnosed a "tight" engine would still be all wet. :) A compression test and a vacuum gauge will tell "the rest of the story". :) Either that or find a competent local mechanic to do some diagnostics. john At 11:04 PM 10/27/99 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: Maybe they meant the valves were too tight, which would cause a low >vacuum and high pollution problem, like a bad carb. Check to ensure the >push rods can be turned easily with your fingers while the motor is >running. If not, then shorter pushrods are available (use C#-at-v) > >Dear John,=20 >I have an 84 Grand Wagoneer. I just put in a rebuilt semi-high >performance engine.=20 >I left the stock 2 barrel carb however. After getting the vehicle back, >I noticed that it did not perform as I expected. I decided to have my 2 >barrel rebuilt and upgraded.=20 >When I took the vehicle to the shop, they told me it was not a carb >problem but an=20 >engine problem. I was told the engine was too tight. They said this was >affecting the performance of the Jeep and the heads would have to be >redone in order to for them to work on the carb. They came to this >conclusion after the Jeep was placed on thier computer and the CO >reading was 9.82 and the Hydro carbons were past 6,200. I was told the >normal numbers are .50 and 100 to 150. I took the Jeep back to the >engine company and they checked it out for two days. They told me the >engine was fine and that the problem was the carburator. I called a >friend of mine and posed the problem and he agreed with the engine shop. >He said the problem is in the carburator and not the engine. I would >like to get your opinion on this matter. What do they mean the engine is >too tight? How is this corrected? I look forward to hearing from you. >Thanks for your help.=20 >Sincerely, >Carlos=20 >Carlos,=20 >If that engine turns over and runs without heating up to the point of >glowing red, it's not too tight. :) =A0 Does it run? How well does it >run? I mean worse than before? =A0 IF you have stock tires and 2.72 >gears you should see 0 to 60 times in the 14 to 17 second range... less >time with lower gears of course. :)=20 >Can you turn the motor by hand by moving the accessories? Or by placing >a socket on the harmonic balancer and move the motor? If you can move >that motor by hand it's not too tight.=20 >So, I'm pretty sure there is nothing wrong with the "tightness" of the >motor. You'd have other problems if that were true and would have little >or no effect on the emissions. =A0 I'm having trouble understanding how >doing something to the heads is gonna change the tightness of the motor. >IF anything it'll be the rings that'll be "too tight".=20 >There are three possibilities to examine: Ignition/Valves/carb-vacuum=20 >One, is the ignition system firing properly on ALL cylinders? =A0 =A0 >=A0 Are you using NEW and tested good wires? =A0 =A0 =A0 Are all the >spark plugs correctly gapped and new? and tested? =A0 =A0 =A0 Is the >timing correct, does it advance properly?=20 >Two, are all the cylinders functional? If there is a bad cam, or bad =A0 >=A0 =A0 lifters, or bad rockers and one cylinder is "dead" this could >=A0 =A0 =A0 affect things as well. =A0 To test, pull each spark plug and >=A0 =A0 =A0 crank the motor, look inside and see if you can see the >valves =A0 =A0 =A0 moving... place your thumb over the hole while it's >cranking =A0 =A0 =A0 (remove the coil wire first) and see if pressure >builds up and =A0 =A0 =A0 releases.=20 >Three, you have a serious problem with your Carb or a major, major =A0 >=A0 =A0 vacuum leak. =A0 Did they replace all the vacuum lines with new? >=A0 =A0 =A0 Is the EGR functional? Is the air pump system working? Is >=A0 =A0 =A0 the catalytic converter working properly and not plugged?=20 >I've seen high hydrocarbons when I had two dead cylinders... bad plug >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0and bad wire... also had vacuum leaks.=20 >If you had someone install this engine have them check the manifold >vacuum and vacuum line connections. Then have them check your plug wires >and even do a compression test. All the cylinders should be pretty >close. If you have one that's way off it could be your problem. (check >the valves first, if they're going up and down and the cylinder is still >low then it's quite possible that the rings were installed >incorrectly... (they could all be lined up with each other creating a >leak that doesn't allow complete combustion...)=20 >Let me know what you find... BTW, where are you located? For some reason >I'm guessing California... not sure why... strange hunch or something... >:)=20 >john=20 > >Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:42:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: [none] Valves too tight like not going up and down and sticking? A: Not sticking, but less than zero play in the pushrods. That should show up in a compression test too... A: It would only show up in a running compression test, not cranking. Trying to keep him from pulling a valve cover. :) I can't really see that happening... even if the seals were too tight the springs and the cam would easily overcome them. If the valve faces weren't right it could result in poor compression and result in the same thing... But the guy that diagnosed a "tight" engine would still be all wet. :) A compression test and a vacuum gauge will tell "the rest of the story". :) A: Definitely a vacuum test hot and cold. Either that or find a competent local mechanic to do some diagnostics. john At 11:04 PM 10/27/99 -0700, James Blair wrote: A: Maybe they meant the valves were too tight, which would cause a low vacuum and high pollution problem, like a bad carb. Check to ensure the push rods can be turned easily with your fingers while the motor is running. If not, then shorter pushrods are available (use C#-at-v) Jim Blair, Seattle WA 1983 Cherokee model 18 4.2L/999 AT, My Homepage: http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html My Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 08:45:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: RE: For Sale: '83 Wagoneer with '78 WT running gear Hey Fred, thats great! Congratulations! But I seem some implications here.. You are going to need to add a seat to the back of the bronco! - -brad Fred writes: > BTW, did you guys hear??? Jane and I are going to have kid #2. > > FEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:56:57 -0700 From: "Fitzgearld, Fredric" Subject: fsj: My dream waggy [was: For Sale: '83 Wagoneer...] That's right. The Bronco will now have to seat 4. Now... If God should bless us with another, I may have to keep the Waggy. It's very doubtful, though. Jane and I are having our "switches turned off" after this kid is born. On the other hand... IF any of you want a highly modified '69 Bronco, rock crawling, offroad monster, I'll sell that for $5000. The I can put all that money into building the ultimate Waggy. Man, the plans I had for that Waggy.... I was going to put in a hydraulic/pneumatic system that would adjust ride height, 35" tires, move the rear axle back 3" and cut out the rear section for a better departure angle, wishbone link system in the rear, stuff like that. Since I would have the WT front clip and the rear cut out I would be able to fly down the hiway at a ride height 4-5" lower then my offroad/trail height (I'm guessing about 1-2" taller then stock). That would lead to better road manners on the street and a nice break over angle on the trail. Anyway.... It's a nice dream. Surly one of you would be able to make something like that reality. Or.... All of you could send me money for the "keep the Waggy fund". :) FEF - -----Original Message----- From: Brad Seevers [mailto:bks-at-co.intel.com] Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 8:46 AM To: fredric.fitzgearld-at-intel.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: RE: For Sale: '83 Wagoneer with '78 WT running gear Hey Fred, thats great! Congratulations! But I seem some implications here.. You are going to need to add a seat to the back of the bronco! - -brad Fred writes: > BTW, did you guys hear??? Jane and I are going to have kid #2. > > FEF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:57:52 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Christmas run... - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Paul W." TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS ("Jeep Style") 'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the trails Every Toyota was stranded, their progress like snails. They had no shovels, no strap and no winch, No CB, no cell-phone, to get out of their pinch. When out from a mud pit, there arose such a clatter; All the'wheelers came running to see what was the matter. I saw some poor 'Zuk all covered in crud; He had blown his motor trying to get free of the mud. As he stood there I noticed his glowing red face, And I knew in an instant he wanted out of this place. I glanced at his roof, it was all I could see; He pleaded for help from my winch and from me. So I sprang to the front of my trusty old Jeep, Spooled out the winch cable and said, "Hook 'er up to your heap!" He went for a swim in the watery hell, And I laughed as he turned brown, and started to smell. He hooked up the cable to his buried front hook, I put a coat on the line like it says in the book. I winched him out quickly, a very fast session; And I charged him a C-note just to teach him a lesson. I then drove my Jeep through the same mud and same muck; No problem for me, 'cause I had a REAL truck! I wound down my window as I drove out of sight, And smugly yelled, "Next time stay home Christmas night!" __________________________________________________ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA NOTE: Washington State has anti-spam laws: $500 per occurrence. (spam is unsolicitied commercial email.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:40:00 -0700 From: Brian Moran Subject: fsj: FS: High-Temp Catalytic Cvtr Injection Hose I recently re-did the catalytic converter, all of the AIR injector check valves, etc. on my 86 GW, I have the high-temperature hose piece and two associated clamps left over (the catalytic injection tube just got welded to the "tailpiece", so I didn't need this). This set is brand new in the box, I paid $23 for it from the autoparts store special order. If you're going to replace the tailpiece (a certainty if your check valves fail) OR catalytic converter (but not both at once), you're going to need this piece to join one to the other as it crosses under the transmission/driveline/exhaust mess. $12 + shipping gets it, I need to get it out of the house. brianmo-at-microsoft.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:55:45 EDT From: Grtdaneguy-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 83 Wagoneer I am looking at getting rid of my 83 (what's left of it) Wagoneer. It has a 360 V-8 a 229 T/C, a trannie already pulled out that needs to be rebuilt, rough interior, tan power(work)seats, black back seat. Good for parts or if ambitious can be put back together. ENGINE does run. Make me an offer, I live in the wonderful state of Delaware. Drop me a line. Joe ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #592 *************************