From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 28 09:21:56 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, January 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 701 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: wagoneer vs grand wagoneer fsj: Re: J-series repair manual fsj: Re: J-series repair manual fsj: Re: xj: RE: 78 Cherokee fsj: RE: go-devil l head, 47 willys needed (fwd) fsj: Non-FSJ Ford 300 info wanted fsj: Re: Pump Me Up fsj: Re: Help with 73 J-4000 fsj: Re: xj: Grand Wagoneers of the non-SJ variety fsj: RE: Re: Help with 73 J-4000 fsj: Re: Brake parts? fsj: '91 Grand Wagoneer for sale in Seattle fsj: Re: Pump Me Up Re: fsj: Re: Pump Me Up fsj: Re: Factory? Sport FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:29:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: wagoneer vs grand wagoneer On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, kathy walsh wrote: >-->John: According to your write up on the "last wagoneer", the last one was >-->and is the only 1992 in existence. At www.cars.com, I found two 1993 jeep >-->wagoneers for sale. Can you clarify? the label wagoneer has been put on more than one model. The original, honest to goodness, body on frame Full Size Jeep was THE Wagoneer. :) However, with the aging of the Grand Old Dame, as one author called it, the label was added to the downsized Cherokee, XJ model, in 1984 as an upscale model. In 1993 the ZJ model Cherokee came out and the WAgoneer moniker was assigned to it as well, it typically includes the woodgrain decals and all the bells and whistles. ON an 88 xj cherokee, the wagoneer package added about $3,000 to the bill. It's confusing, but also disgraceful... :) Brooke Stevens design lasted for decades, the name should only be used on an SJ model... :) >-->Additionally, I would like to know the difference between a wagoneer and a >-->grand wagoneer. In 1984 when they introduced the downsized Cherokee/Wagoneer, they added the name Grand to the SJ model. However, as noted, in 1993 they also used the name Grand Wagoneer on the ZJ models, and also on the new WJ models... So, from 1963 until 1983, Wagoneer meant a Wagoneer, the SJ model, full size, body on frame. From 84 on Wagoneer meant XJ cherokee with a souped up package. >From about 93 up, Grand WAgoneer became the ZJ and WJ model upscale package... :) confused? >-->Lastly, I am considering buying a 1988 wagoneer w/ 111,000 miles on it. >-->the body is real straight. Runs well. compression is in the mid 130's on >-->all cylinders. Leather interior, power everything. A real nice looking >-->vahicle. Killer stero system which I could do without but my son would >-->love. Asking price is $4,000. According to my research on internet and >-->blue book numbers it is a good value. Do you have any thoughts on this? I >-->wouold value your input. >-->Sincerely >-->Jim Walsh that's about the going price for them. 111K is not bad. My 88 Wagoneer Limited, an XJ, has over 198,000 miles on it and doing quite well. :) I'd say go for it... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 11:37:04 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: J-series repair manual On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Rob Epp wrote: >--> >-->Service Manual - J-Series Vehicles - for J-100 series >--> and J-2000 and J-3000 series Pickup and Stake Platform >--> Reprinted 7-77 SM-1042 AMC Jeep >-->Corporation. >-->Hi John.I have an '87 J10 Pioneer pickup,and i'm looking for an AMC >-->repair manual for it.I can order a Haynes version,but would much rather >-->have an AMC version.Can you please let me know if this is the right >-->book.Thanks Rob. it'll cover 70's vintage stuff, but won't cover your trans, maybe the motor stuff will be close... but thinking about it, this is really the 60's vintage stuff, if memory serves me correctly.. Your 87 has stuff in it that the manual won't discuss, tranny, xfr case, heat/ac, cruise, and so on... if the price is right it'll be better by far than a Haynes... the haynes manual isn't very good... try to find a factory manual somewhere... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:14:03 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: J-series repair manual On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Rob Epp wrote: >--> >-->Thanks for getting back to me John.I'm telling I'm having a heck of a >-->time just trying to find a truck anywhere the same year as mine, never >-->mind a manual.Thanks again. I've got a friend down in Florida with one. He calls it Timex. :) It's a beautiful rig and inspired me to get a J10. I've got a nice 83 J10 Stepside now. Dennis' has the 258 I-6 and so does mine. Mine has the T-5 trans, while Dennis' has the 4 speed. Both of us have the NP208. His has the 2.72 gears, mine has the 3.31's. I just put 31x10.5s on mine, can feel the difference from the 235's! Dennis is running 35's, I think... :) I recommend searching ebay for a manual. I picked up an 84/85 (still really need an 83) shop manual for $9.95! plus shipping!!! The 83 shop manual I wanted/needed ended up selling for $128!!! There are places that sell the manuals used or a photocopy for about $70, trust me, it's worth it if you really have a problem. btw, you ought to consider getting on the FSJ list on digest.net here's some pix of mine... I keep forgetting to put Timex back up, I need to find the files and set 'em back up... When I quit editing for ORC and built my own server I didn't set everything back up on my pages the way I had 'em before... been busy. :) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/ http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/J10s/johns-83-Stepside/j10-23jan2000.jpg john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:34:29 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: RE: 78 Cherokee On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Boesche, Tim, J., ASC wrote: >-->Check out my 78 Cherokeee at http://home.off-road.com/~swampthang Both >-->are 78's Swampthang II is a two door >-->I am really pleased with this size and style of truck. Wish I could take >-->STII to Spain with me. Oh well at least the 87 Cherokee Limited I have is >-->still a jeep >-->Tim another FSJ / XJ owner... interesting how many of us there are. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 12:55:15 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: go-devil l head, 47 willys needed (fwd) definetly not FSJ or XJ... but nonetheless, gear heads be gear heads and y'all might be able to help Dan find what he needs... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Starc, Dan" John I also need a distributor gear/shaft or a complete distributor (it's a 12 volt system, it used to be a 6 V) for the same rig... Thanks to both of you in advance. Dan -----Original Message----- From: john [SMTP:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 4:21 PM To: Weitlauf, Paul E Cc: Starc, Dan Subject: go-devil l head, 47 willys needed paul, dan is also looking for a distributer... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Starc, Dan" John I am looking for a cilinder head for a '47 Willys with an L-head "Go-Devil" (sorry!) engine...where do I look? Can you please forward this to Paul Weitlauf (I don't have his e-mail address here at work...) to see if he can help? Thanks a million! Dan -----Original Message----- From: john [SMTP:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 1:48 PM To: Starc, Dan Subject: Re: Great Writer... ur twisted... it would be funnier if he were just writing the code... ;) long live Linux! john On Tue, 25 Jan 2000, Starc, Dan wrote: >-->There was once a young man who, in his youth, professed his desire become a >-->great writer. >-->When asked to define "great" he said, "I want to write stuff that the whole >-->world will read, stuff that people will react to on a truly emotional level, >-->stuff that will make them scream, cry, howl in pain and anger!" >-->He now works for Microsoft, writing error messages. >-->:-) >-->Dan >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:14:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Non-FSJ Ford 300 info wanted A: Someone on one of these lists had some 300 stuff for sale. Drop Craig a line if you want to unload it! From: Craig Subject: Resources wanted Forgive the non-AMC content, but does anyone out there know of some good resources for performance modifying the Ford 4.9L inline 6? I'd sure like to add some more HP and torque to my 94 Ford pickup, which I use to haul my AMC vehicles and pick up parts from the local salvage yards. I know this engine is capable of a lot more than is giving. ===== Craig Bond - seebee65-at-yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/amcbond 2 76 AMC Matador coupes - 401, 360 ********************************************** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:25:18 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Pump Me Up In a message dated 1/27/2000 10:37:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 12:58:39 -0500 > From: "B. COLUCCI" > > Greetings To The FSJ World! > > The USS GW is ready to be attacked with a wrench. The factory fuel pump > sometimes pumps, and sometimes it does not. (snip) > I'm thinking about converting to an electric unit. I know that they > make them for carb equipped motors; but I have questions. > > - Did I dream that somebody in the group said that you should remove > the unused factory pump; and if so was there some sort of problem about > a part that would fall into the motor and cause grief and trauma? If you keep the old pump in place, the diaphram could eventually rupture. This might already be the case since the pump isn't working or is at least very old. The problem with this is that the hole in the diaphram will allow fuel into the engine cavity. I suppose you could by-pass the old pump and then worry about letting engine oil into the pump and then eventually onto the ground. > - Did somebody say that you actually get more engine power with the > old pump gone? Seems doubtful. > - Somebody must have said something about the installation of a > dummy plate; and what plate to use. I was told big block Chevy, but I scrounged one and it seems way too large to be useful. I think a saw a pic of a small block Chevy block off plate somewhere and it looked much closer. > - Will I need some sort of regulator and or auto shutdown device to > control the flow of fuel if the engine stalls or fails to start? I know > that these are built into the circuits of EFI controls. If you want to reduce the risk barbecuing yourself while the fuel pump does it's thing all over your wrecked FSJ, it would be a good idea. You can get a switch that will shut off the electric pump when the oil pressure drops way low. It replaces the stock oil pressure switch and is available from Summit - - among others. The other option is to switch the pump independently with a toggle on the dash. Not as good a solution because it depends on the driver having the presence of mind to shut off the switch while the driver may not be concious. > - How much pressure should I put into that standard rubber hose and > a regular carb. Not as much as most discount auto parts store pumps can provide. For some reason, the places around here stock a bunch of pumps that are way too high for a carb and too low for fuel injection. Carburated fuel pressures should be 3 psi to 5.5 psi. I believe Michael Baxter has said it will run fine on 1 or 2 psi. A cheap $20 fuel pressure regulator (JC Whitney if not locally) and a fuel pressure gauge (both mounted as close to the carb as possible) would be a good idea. I have found that low fuel pressures work fine and don't seem to make vapor lock any more of a problem. In all honesty, I'm pretty sure I've never actually had vapor lock problems. I thought I did when it was 110 once but it probably was a disintegrating fuel sock. > - Anybody have a thoughts on a specific good or bad brand of > electric pump? I think many electric pumps rely on the fuel to keep them cool. If you get one that pumps way more than the carb will use then it may overheat. If you put a return line to the tank in after the pump then you wouldn't have a problem. I have a square bodied Purolator (seems to very common) mounted near my auxillary tank. It's independently switched and I only used it when I thought I was having vapor lock problems. The neat thing about it is that I can leave it in-line and fuel flows through it even though it is switched off. When the weather warms up I'll move it up close to the carb or do away with it altogether. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:48:27 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Help with 73 J-4000 Have you tried a NAPA? If not, you may have luck with Crown Automotive. john At 06:31 PM 1/27/00 -0600, you wrote: >I hope you have the time to answer this. > >I purchased a '73 J-4000 last year and have been working on it in my >spare time. >(ie. not as often as I would like) > >I am now stuck with a break problem. I have gone through most of the FSJ >archives without finding an answer. > >This truck uses 12 in x 2 in drums (5 lug pattern) on all four wheels. >I can not locate parts anywhere. I am willing to make modification >(change backing plates etc.). > >Can you recommend something to try or an internet location to look for >more info? > >Thanks, >Jamie Phillips >email: jphil78888-at-aol.com > >PS. I can send a picture of the truck if interested. > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:48:26 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Grand Wagoneers of the non-SJ variety I may have been dreaming, but I thought I saw wagoneer trim on a new WJ... could be wrong... It wouldn't be the first time Jeep offered something they didn't put in their literature... like a "Sport" J10 stepside that wasn't a Honcho... Can't find anything on my 83, yet it sure isn't a base model or a Honcho... base models usually didn't come with tilt and a/c, factory stripes and "sport" on the side... or the stepside... So having a wall papered WJ isn't out of the realm of possibility. :) john At 03:27 PM 1/27/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >john wrote: >> However, as noted, in 1993 they also used the name Grand Wagoneer on the ZJ >> models, and also on the new WJ models... > >AFAIK, there is no WJ Grand Wagoneer (there's no mention of one on the Jeep >site - just Laredos and Limiteds) and the ZJ Grand Wagoneer was short lived. >They did come out in 93, but I think they were only made for 93 and maybe 94. >Maybe Alan knows more on this since he's pretty up on the various trim models >and years offered. > >Paul W >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:00:43 -0700 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Help with 73 J-4000 I would seriously consider a Disc brake conversion for the front. and maybe standard 11"x2" drum brakes in the rear. To acomplish this I would probably look for a later model J-Truck to get axles from and do a swap. Just my opinion however, I really don't like 4 wheel drum brakes myself. JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 7:48 PM To: Jamie Phillips Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: Help with 73 J-4000 Have you tried a NAPA? If not, you may have luck with Crown Automotive. john At 06:31 PM 1/27/00 -0600, you wrote: >I hope you have the time to answer this. > >I purchased a '73 J-4000 last year and have been working on it in my >spare time. >(ie. not as often as I would like) > >I am now stuck with a break problem. I have gone through most of the FSJ >archives without finding an answer. > >This truck uses 12 in x 2 in drums (5 lug pattern) on all four wheels. >I can not locate parts anywhere. I am willing to make modification >(change backing plates etc.). > >Can you recommend something to try or an internet location to look for >more info? > >Thanks, >Jamie Phillips >email: jphil78888-at-aol.com > >PS. I can send a picture of the truck if interested. > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:06:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Brake parts? A: Don't know if '73 Gladiator are exactly the same, but I don't have a J3000 listing in my Bendix book to compare to. They list 12 1/8"x 2" drums front and rear. Shoes are #33, but no drums are listed anymore. I would swap both axles to a '74 up disc brake front /drum rear set up (Al Metzel on the other list did that on his '66/'83 Wagoneer, Wagonstein) and go for 6 bolt wheels. If you want to keep the 5 bolt setup, IH Scouts have the same set up with disc or drum brakes. John wrote: Have you tried a NAPA? If not, you may have luck with Crown Automotive. john At 06:31 PM 1/27/00 -0600, you wrote: I hope you have the time to answer this. I purchased a '73 J-4000 last year and have been working on it in my spare time. (ie. not as often as I would like) I am now stuck with a break problem. I have gone through most of the FSJ archives without finding an answer. This truck uses 12 in x 2 in drums (5 lug pattern) on all four wheels. I can not locate parts anywhere. I am willing to make modification (change backing plates etc.). Can you recommend something to try or an internet location to look for more info? Thanks, Jamie Phillips email: jphil78888-at-aol.com PS. I can send a picture of the truck if interested. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:18:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: '91 Grand Wagoneer for sale in Seattle You'll have to look it up on the Seattle times/PI website. I lost today's paper somewhere. The ad sounded good though ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:00:55 EST From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Pump Me Up In a message dated 1/27/00 10:37:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, Brian Colucci asked: > - Somebody must have said something about the installation > of a dummy plate; and what plate to use. I took my old mechanical pump to the parts store and matched it up to a cover-plate for a big-block Shivvy, which fit the pump-hole in my 360 perfectly. > - Anybody have a thoughts on a specific good or bad brand > of electric pump? I've been using the Carter electric pump, which seems to work very well; but it's *NOISY*!! ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ not leaving Las Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:06:04 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Pump Me Up what plate for a 258? hey, that rhymes... :) john On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 OrigamiTB-at-aol.com wrote: >-->In a message dated 1/27/00 10:37:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, Brian Colucci >--> asked: >--> >-->> - Somebody must have said something about the installation >-->> of a dummy plate; and what plate to use. >--> >-->I took my old mechanical pump to the parts store and matched it up to a >-->cover-plate for a big-block Shivvy, which fit the pump-hole in my 360 >-->perfectly. >--> >-->> - Anybody have a thoughts on a specific good or bad brand >-->> of electric pump? >--> >-->I've been using the Carter electric pump, which seems to work very well; >-->but it's *NOISY*!! >--> >-->++ Cornel Ormsby ++ >-->not leaving Las Vegas >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 09:17:10 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Factory? Sport On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Paul W. wrote: >-->john wrote: >-->> It wouldn't be the first time Jeep offered something they didn't >-->> put in their literature... like a "Sport" J10 stepside that wasn't >-->> a Honcho... Can't find anything on my 83, yet it sure isn't a base >-->> model or a Honcho... base models usually didn't come with tilt >-->> and a/c, factory stripes and "sport" on the side... or the stepside... >--> >-->Hate to break the news to ya, John, but your J-10 isn't a factory "Sport." I >-->noticed the "Sport" decals in your tire store pics and that is an aftermarket >-->logo. Probably applied by a previous owner or (most likely) a detail shop. >-->I've seen that exact same logo on all kinds of cars and trucks. >--> >-->Paul W Guess that would explain why I can't find it in the manuals. ;) It's not a decal, it's actually painted on the truck... And why would anyone in their right mind paint the word "Sport" on the side of a 6 cylinder truck??? It had to be a dealer thing... of course the PPo (that's previous previous owner) was not the sharpest tool in the shed... removed electronic ignition for dual points, now there's a convenience item, hacked up the exhaust, removed every pollution control, and a variety of other silliness... He did however do one good thing, he put on a Clifford intake manifold. :) If I repaint the truck, it won't be a "Sport" now more... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #701 *************************