From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 31 13:31:56 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 01 : Number 706 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: weather... fsj: Re: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! fsj: Re: Pump Me Up fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #705 fsj: Weather Re: fsj: Weather Re: fsj: Weather fsj: parts? fsj: brakes n murphy Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! fsj: High HC and CO Re: fsj: High HC and CO Re: fsj: High HC and CO fsj: my weekend with Murphy and a few friends... fsj: new subscriber Re: fsj: new subscriber FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 21:08:52 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: weather... A: Elmo is running great right now too, which almost guarantees no snow! :^( Why not get the WinLoseDraw 2000 that is out in Beta now? I am supposed to be getting Mozilla 4.0 soon. I can't get my own upgrades, but the persons writing the software need to wake up and stop putting so many "features" in! I'm tired of fighting with them to give me a block on one set of dial up numbers, because I can't even connect on them! And the locking invisible banner that keeps redirecting me to http://1800flowers.com is very annoying too! I can't see it, but everytime I send an email, go to any url, or even scroll a whole page, I get sent there! It'll be nice to get more use out of the 27 gig hard drive in this thing! Elmo will NOT be getting any MS programming, no matter how much computerized stuff I put in! John wrote: What gives? I have three running Jeeps (well mostly running... just not stopping right now :) and all we get is rain.... While Raliegh, NC gets 20 inches of snow!!! Even Georgia is facing cold weather! Ok, so I won't complain so much about mid 40's rain... :) It does look like we might see a little snow later in the week... Hopefully my J10 will have the TBI setup, and the little wagoneer will have binders. Well, back outside... I've been messing around with a new pc... I sold my son my old one and swapped parts around instead of reloading win98... I may end up having to reload windoze again though... trying to do two monitors... sort of works... it tells me it recognizes it, but it won't configure... After setting up the sound card the system won't come back up... time to call in my teenager... ;) =A0 back to the brakes... lord willing I'll have them done soon... john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:46:01 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! In a message dated 1/29/2000 3:27:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 12:28:30 -0800 (PST) > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) > > A: The Grand Wagoneer is also lower than the earlier FSJs by 1". I'll be > measuring everything on the other frame to see if there was any changes > there. I've never seen a GW as low as my '71 with 3 year old stock spec springs. They are at least an in higher than my '71. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:46:18 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Pump Me Up In a message dated 1/30/2000 3:57:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, chrissys-at-midwest.net writes: > There are a ka-zillion antique cars on the road with electric pumps in line > with the mechanical pumps. If you examine the way mechical pumps are > designed, using an electric causes no undo risks to them (discounting any > caveman modifications). Antique cars have marginal stock fuel pumps when > dealing with today's quality of gas. Using an electric near the tank is > what saves many of us (I use them on my studebakers & kaiser) from those > embarrasing vapor locks when leaving the gas station parking lots in summer > weather. Hmmm. I wonder where the theory comes from about blowing out the diaphram in the mechanical pump. I've still got the stock mechanical pump on the shelf and planned to disect it someday. It's on my list of interesting things to do when I run out of important stuff. I wonder when that day will come? Ben ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:27:32 -0700 From: Smith Asylum Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #705 fsj-digest wrote: > At 08:18 PM 1/30/00, Saltsgavers wrote: > >I've never figured out why anyone without webbed feet would want to live in > >the PNW! > > > >flat instead of soggy, > >Mike S. > > yeah... it's 45 degrees outside... :) sure it's raining, but > I'm wearing a sweatshirt and coveralls... what do you have to put > on to work outside in January? > > john I don't know what it's like in Illinois this time of year, but I was outside all day today with roof rack and headliner detail and since it was cloudy I had to wear a flannel shirt and jeans. >;-) Lee Chandler AZ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 02:11:02 -0500 From: fatmac99-at-mindspring.com Subject: fsj: Weather You left coast guys and your bad weather ;-) This weekend here in beautiful Atlanta we had freezing rain, and more freezing rain. Just about all the trees are bent over backwards, plenty of Georgians who can't drive are in the ditch, and the Big D (Delta) has cancelled 80% of their flights. And me without a useful four wheel drive. Just a VW Bus with no heater or defrost. Actually this is nothing compared to what I put up with in Chicago for 25+ years. Soon it will warm up, I'll have a garage to work in all year round, and I'll have the perfect Wagoneer to battle bad roads with. Have fun. Mike (Still diligently looking) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:01:32 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Weather A: I put a propane heater in my '66 VW van, because it took less fuel than the factory Huppmobile gas heater! Mike wrote: You left coast guys and your bad weather ;-) This weekend here in beautiful Atlanta we had freezing rain, and more freezing rain. Just about all the trees are bent over backwards, plenty of Georgians who can't drive are in the ditch, and the Big D (Delta) has cancelled 80% of their flights. =A0 And me without a useful four wheel drive. Just a VW Bus with no heater or defrost. Actually this is nothing compared to what I put up with in Chicago for 25+ years. Soon it will warm up, I'll have a garage to work in all year round, and I'll have the perfect Wagoneer to battle bad roads with. Have fun. Mike (Still diligently looking) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:09:37 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Weather :) It stopped raining a while back... my backside is dry, but not it's getting cold... back to the disc conversion project... what a pain this has turned out to be... btw, I used to live in disgusta and the chicago area... we had a dusting of snow at ft. gordon and folks were having problems all over the place, and the entire town shutdown... it was comical... john At 02:11 AM 1/31/00 -0500, fatmac99-at-mindspring.com wrote: >You left coast guys and your bad weather ;-) > >This weekend here in beautiful Atlanta we had freezing rain, and more >freezing rain. Just about all the trees are bent over backwards, plenty of >Georgians who can't drive are in the ditch, and the Big D (Delta) has >cancelled 80% of their flights. And me without a useful four wheel drive. >Just a VW Bus with no heater or defrost. > >Actually this is nothing compared to what I put up with in Chicago for 25+ >years. Soon it will warm up, I'll have a garage to work in all year round, >and I'll have the perfect Wagoneer to battle bad roads with. > >Have fun. > >Mike >(Still diligently looking) > > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 01:09:48 -0600 From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net Subject: fsj: parts? John when get a chance let me have the info on the Jeep parts , back east? Thanks R.J. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:02:35 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: brakes n murphy at nearly midnight i'm almost tehre... b rake line connected, parking brake connected... ahve to attache the rotor and caliper, bleed the rr caliper, adjust the parking barke and take my life into my own hands and test 'em out... :) I'm perplexed at a coulpe steps, also why i'm having so much ttrouble typing with twspo parirs of rubgbger gloves on... :)( I coulndn'tfigure out why the axle wouldn't turn when I firtst instllaed the backing palte. when I lossened it up and then retightned it seemed fine??? I think I'm gonna have the shp recheck the rear bearings when I have them do the rear main seal... weell, back poutise, er outside... these glovesa re tight.k :P johnd - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 100 08:53:30 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! I think they dropped the height around 80 -- before the grand. - -brad > A: The Grand Wagoneer is also lower than the earlier FSJs by 1". I'll be > measuring everything on the other frame to see if there was any changes > there. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:17:47 -0500 From: "Bednarik, Nathan" Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Thanks for all the input guys. Like I said before it was late Friday night and I didn't even want to mess with it until this weekend. I just wanted some personal experience on my side before I attempted to fix it. Saturday morning I went over and went through all the ignition wiring. I knew that even if the cat was plugged, when I disconnected it the jeep should have started right up. After an hour of going through the wiring (w/o a volt/ohm meter) I found an ignition wire that burned through (it's about time I try out painless). After fixing the wire it took a few attempts but it started right up and purred nicely. There was a noticeable increase in the volt meter. It usually read b/n 12 and 13. Now it stays steady at 14+ volts. I dont even think there is anything wrong with the cat....=) At least I hope not. I'm gonna put it back on tonight and see what happens. My theory is that the ignition wire opened while driving and caused the jeep to stall. When I hopped out and noticed the cat glowing that intensely I automatically assumed that was the problem. I've never really paid attention to the exhaust when it was dark out..... Maybe the carb is running lean which caused the cat to glow, maybe it's running rich.....I got way to much conflicting info on it to know. I think it's running fine. So.....I'm gonna leave it alone. =)) Thanks again for the help. Nate > ---------- > From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com[SMTP:UrbFarmer-at-aol.com] > Reply To: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 12:07 AM > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! > > If it seem that too much fuel is going through the carb, it really sounds > like a stuck or sunken float like Jim was saying. When I first did a carb > > job on the 'Rez Runner', the float bowl was full of all kinds of crud. > You > can probably shut off the fuel, pop off the top of the carb (HAZARD: don't > > loose any little screws, ESPECIALLY down the intake!), and observe or > check > the float and needle valve for operation. I usually take the carb off > rather > than chance loosing the screws and just the general hassle of working over > > the top of the motor. If the float is submerged quite a bit, you will > want > to replace it. It is usually a good idea to replace the needle and seat > at > the same time. Remember to adjust the new float. They usually come with > a > plastic gauge and instructions. I think some of the more exotic fuel > additives eventually (over several years) aren't too good on the standard > black plastic floats. However, they usually are not a big hassel to > replace. > --Vince > '81 Wag (not a grand, but putts through Chicago snow just fine anyway!) > > > << there aren't adjustments for anything but idle mixtures anyways... the > rich scenario doesn't sound quite right... I dunno... > > john > > > At 07:43 PM 1/28/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: > >Nathan wrote: > >I'm sure the cat is not backwards. I spoke with a guy at a local carb > >shop. He said the reason it wont start is that it is too rich and cant > >burn all the fuel that's being pumped into the carb, which then caused > >the cat to overheat trying to burn the excess fuel...?? I asked him how > >many times he's seen it happen with his experience. He said none, but > >that it could happen.....how the heck can the carb just change it's > >mixture all by itself!?!? I haven't touched the mixture adjustment since > >I got it smogged a month ago. Since then I've taken it on two really > >long trips (500+ miles) with no problems. I'll let you guys now what I > >figure out this weekend. I may have to have it towed home. Thanks for > >the suggestions. > > > >A: Given the present weather conditions, a piece of gas line ice could > >be holding the 2100's needle part open, and flooding the carb, or the > >choke could be coming on while driving. > > > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > >> > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:46:35 -0500 From: "Borowski, Paul" Subject: fsj: High HC and CO Just took my newly purchased 88 GrandWagoneer in for an emissions test and it failed because of high HC and CO. It takes about 10 minutes to warm up and until it does it sputters and tries to die if it is left at Idol. How about some suggestions on what I should do to work on these problems. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:12:30 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: High HC and CO On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Borowski, Paul wrote: >-->Just took my newly purchased 88 GrandWagoneer in for an emissions test and >-->it failed because of high HC and CO. It takes about 10 minutes to warm up >-->and until it does it sputters and tries to die if it is left at Idol. How >-->about some suggestions on what I should do to work on these problems. >--> >-->Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. >--> >-->Paul replace all vacuum lines, tighten intake/exhaust manifolds, replace the plugs and wires, fresh oil and air filter and try again... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:16:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: High HC and CO A: First thing to check is your choke adjustment. It should be set so that when the choke is closed cold, that it doesn't have a lot of pressure on it. The cover on the side should be turned leaner til the choke opens, then barely closed. The change from warm weather to cold weather makes the bi-metallic spring tighter. Sounds like it's too tight to me. Is the hot air hose attached to the air cleaner from the exhaust manifold? Is the door for the hot air opening inside? Then you have vacuum leaks, needle and seat wear, carb float sinking because of MTBE eating it, and then there's the power valves in the HOlley 2150 that tend to blow out. Scared you enough yet? I'd say if it idles fine when warm, that your choke is the big problem though. Got any Redline fuel system treatment there? It'll usually clean everything else out! Paul Borowski wrote: Just took my newly purchased 88 GrandWagoneer in for an emissions test and it failed because of high HC and CO. It takes about 10 minutes to warm up and until it does it sputters and tries to die if it is left at Idol. How about some suggestions on what I should do to work on these problems. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. Paul ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:20:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: my weekend with Murphy and a few friends... Murphy: http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/brakes/ Friends: http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/fests/Jan29-2000-xj-fsj-SNOHOMISH/ http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/fests/Jan29-2000-fsj-xj-SNOHOMISH/ followup on the stainless steel brake conversion, called them up, seemed like great tech support so far, waiting for a call back from the main tech, the guy I talked to didn't know jeeps... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:10:00 -0600 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: new subscriber Hello, I am a new subscriber to this listing and thought I would tell everyone a little about myself and the Jeep I am working on. *****My Background************* I am living in a Chicago suburb and have been working on trucks and cars in my spare time for the past 10 years or so. No training, just get a book and start working (sometimes calling others for help). I had been keeping my eyes open for a while for a 4-wheel drive truck (low cost, that I could work on). *****Truck Background (to many details for some ?)************* Last year while training at Ft. Leonardwood, MO; I came across a Jeep Truck. I had always liked the look of the Jeep Trucks, and a buddy had one, so I thought I would take a look. It was a '73 J-4000 and was sitting in his back yard with some obvious problems: 1. four flat tires 2. broken u-joint on front drive shaft 3. broken leaf springs (front) 4. ripped brake hose 5. smashed starter Apparently the last time it had been driven (a couple of YEARS previously) the front leaf springs gave away allowing the front axle to shift, breaking the u-joint on the front drive shaft, drive shaft hit starter, etc..... The bed was well rusted and so are the front wheel wells, but the cab and the rest of the mechanicals not mentioned above seemed to be in great shape (considering age). It also has a large push/wrecker bumper on the front. So me and the previous owner compromised on price with the addition that he would get four tires that would hold air on it. I found out, as others on the list have, that U-Haul refused to rent me a trailer because their trailers were not rated for that amount of weight. So after thinking about it, I : 1. bought a set of tow bars 2. rewired the Jeeps tail lights with a patch so I could connect my other truck's towing lights 3. clamped the leaf spring into a solid mass and placed wooden blocks between the axle and the frame 4. removed the drive shafts 5. then towed it back to post There on post (in the parking lot) I: 1. installed new battery and battery cables 2. installed new u-joint 2. oil/filter change 3. tune up, plugs, plug wires, air filter , etc... 4. put in fresh gas and anti-moisture/cleaning additive 5. some new fuel line and new filter 6. installed new starter (in the rain, laying in 1-2 in of cold water; I wanted to start it bad...) Pumped a half dozen times, turned it over, and it started right up! By the time I completed all of this (evenings after training) it was time to come home. So I towed it back to Chicago from MO and I have been working on the Brakes ever since. I have also replaced both front leaf spring. A shop near me made them from scratch. For now, I am working out in the parking lot of my apartment building. (ie. no cover) *****Truck info/question******** After poking around some I finally got a copy of the 1973 Jeep Technical Service Manual. From this, and looking at my data plate I learned I had: 1. a Jeep Truck J-4000 (J-4600) 6000 GVW 2. w/ 360 engine 3. w/ Hydromatic "400" Automatic Transmission 4. w/Quadra Trac 5. 12" x 2" front and rear brake drums 6. Model 44 Full Floating Front Axle 7. Model 60-2 Semi-Floating (flanged shaft) My problem now is break parts; I can not locate any for the 12" x 2" break drums (5 bolt pattern). I have checked all of the local parts stores and a number of online stores that promise to be able to get anything. Still nothing. I looked through a Hollander cross reference book and only some of the "J" Series trucks used this particular drum. I don't have access to a lot of axles, and the ones on my tuck are in such good shape that I don't really want to swap them out if I don't have to. I had heard that I could swap brake backing plates out with some other vehicle system (that I could get parts for), but I don't yet know a good combination to try. I tried using the backing plates from a '73 Wagoneer, but the center hole for the shaft was too small and two axle mounting holes didn't align up. I took it to a machine shop, but when they put it in a lath to enlarge the center hole the center of mass was to far off causing the plate to wobble too much. So now I am back to square one. I really would like to use my current axles, but I am open to other possibilities. If anyone is curious about what it looks like, let me know and I will send a photo. Thanks for any help. Later, Jamie Phillips (email: jphil78888-at-aol.com) '73 J-4000 '77 F250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:28:22 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: new subscriber On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: >-->Hello, >--> >-->I am a new subscriber to this listing and thought I would tell everyone a >-->little about myself and the Jeep I am working on. >--> >-->*****My Background************* >--> >-->I am living in a Chicago suburb and have been working on trucks and cars in >-->my spare time for the past 10 years or so. No training, just get a book >-->and start working (sometimes calling others for help). I had been keeping >-->my eyes open for a while for a 4-wheel drive truck (low cost, that I could >-->work on). >-->Later, >-->Jamie Phillips (email: jphil78888-at-aol.com) >-->'73 J-4000 >-->'77 F250 greetings... I'm originally from Crystal Lake! Glad to see you on the list... my son has a 67 J3000 and I've got an 83 J10 Stepside, also have an 88 xj wagoneer limited... Living way out here on the West Coast now... no salt, very little snow, but plenty of rain and mold... actually, Chicago gets 20" more rain than we do! The difference is ours takes 9 months to fall... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #706 *************************