From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jan 31 17:38:24 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 01 : Number 707 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: J4000 - what is it? Re: fsj: Re: J4000 - what is it? Re: fsj: Re: J4000 - what is it? Re: fsj: new subscriber RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! fsj: FWD Wanted: FSJ's for sale (In Phoenix area I think) fsj: J4000 Breaks, continued from "new subscriber" fsj: Re: new subscriber fsj: dumb question Re: fsj: dumb question Re: fsj: dumb question Re: fsj: new subscriber fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 13:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: J4000 - what is it? On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Landon Tesar wrote: >-->OK, >--> >-->so this truck has got me excited. Needs paint, rust in the floorboards, >-->but seems solid. 1973 model. 133K miles. >--> >-->What is it ? 1/2, 3/4, 1Ton ? What axles does it have ? They don't look >-->that big... >--> >-->The 4WD lever is very loose, almost like it's disconnected. How can I >-->test 4WD ? Do you know what transfer case it has ? >--> >-->I signed up to the digest even though I haven't bought the truck. It's >-->so pure, I'm psyched. There's not a stitch of carpet in the thing. >--> >-->- Landon Need more info... it's either a 1/2T or a 3/4T. Need to see the ID number off the data plate... J4500 &4600 are 132" 1/2t J4700 &4800 are 3/4 T my son has a 67 J3000, model 3406W, 1/2T. I've got an 83 J10 Stepside... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:02:47 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: Re: fsj: Re: J4000 - what is it? john wrote: > On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Landon Tesar wrote: > >-->OK, > >--> > >-->so this truck has got me excited. Needs paint, rust in the floorboards, > >-->but seems solid. 1973 model. 133K miles. > >--> > >-->What is it ? 1/2, 3/4, 1Ton ? What axles does it have ? They don't look > >-->that big... > >--> > >-->The 4WD lever is very loose, almost like it's disconnected. How can I > >-->test 4WD ? Do you know what transfer case it has ? This is something I posted to the other list a couple of years ago... This was found on the jeep+willys NG... 1. Find a passenger-helper. 2. If you have manual hubs, lock 'em. 3. Get into some real wet slippery mud. 4. Engage 4 wheel drive. 5. Stop the Jeep (in the mud). 6. Turn the steering wheel all the way right. 7. Stick your head out the driver's side window. 8. Look directly at your front wheel. 9. Floor the accelerator, only for a sceond or two. 10. Pull your head back in and look at the passenger-helper. 11. If the passenger-helper is laughing, your 4 wheel drive is likely engaging. Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:13:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: J4000 - what is it? A: It's easy to tell the 1/2 and 3/4 ton apart by how many wheel lugs. 8 bolts are 3/4 and 5 are 1/2 ton. There is a '63 Jeep J300 that needs motor trans and a fender in the B&S 360-387-5516. I may have talked to him at the rest area on I-5 a couple weeks ago. On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Landon Tesar wrote: OK, so this truck has got me excited. Needs paint, rust in the floorboards, but seems solid. 1973 model. 133K miles. What is it ? 1/2, 3/4, 1Ton ? What axles does it have ? They don't look that big... The 4WD lever is very loose, almost like it's disconnected. How can I test 4WD ? Do you know what transfer case it has ? I signed up to the digest even though I haven't bought the truck. It's so pure, I'm psyched. There's not a stitch of carpet in the thing. - - Landon Need more info... it's either a 1/2T or a 3/4T. Need to see the ID number off the data plate... J4500 &4600 are 132" 1/2t J4700 &4800 are 3/4 T my son has a 67 J3000, model 3406W, 1/2T. I've got an 83 J10 Stepside... john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:32:32 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: new subscriber Jamie.L.Phillips wrote: >I am a new subscriber to this listing and thought I would tell everyone a little about myself and the Jeep I am working on. (SNIP) *****Truck info/question******** After poking around some I finally got a copy of the 1973 Jeep Technical Service Manual. From this, and looking at my data plate I learned I had: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A01. a Jeep Truck J-4000 (J-4600) 6000 GVW =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A02. w/ 360 engine =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A03. w/ Hydromatic "400" Automatic Transmission =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A04. w/Quadra Trac =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A05. 12" x 2" front and rear brake drums =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A06. Model 44 Full Floating Front Axle =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A07. Model 60-2 Semi-Floating (flanged shaft) My problem now is break parts; I can not locate any for the 12" x 2" break drums (5 bolt pattern). I have checked all of the local parts stores and a number of online stores that promise to be able to get anything. Still nothing. I looked through a Hollander cross reference book and only some of the "J" Series trucks used this particular drum. A: Some of the IH trucks used them too, and they are now made of unobtainium (I went through that with my old neighbour on Maple Valley Highway when I worked for Olympic Brake Supply, the biggest West Coast brake supplier warehouse) We got some 12x2 drums from something else that were shaped the same, and redrilled the stud holes on a lathe/drill table. >I don't have access to a lot of axles, and the ones on my tuck are in such good shape that I don't really want to swap them out if I don't have to. I had heard that I could swap brake backing plates out with some other vehicle system (that I could get parts for), but I don't yet know a good combination to try. I tried using the backing plates from a '73 Wagoneer, but the center hole for the shaft was too small and two axle mounting holes didn't align up. A: Change the whole outer hub on the front for newer disc brake setup with 6 or 8 bolt flange. On the rear you can change just the axle shafts, and put 8 bolt 3/4 ton ones in AFAIK, and use the brakes as well. Much more common to find parts for, and much better brakes! (you can use the power booster, master cyl, and combo valve as well) >I took it to a machine shop, but when they put it in a lath to enlarge the center hole the center of mass was to far off causing the plate to wobble too much. A: Sounds like they were spinning it too fast! I turned lots of them when I lived in Canada, putting heavier brakes on V8 converted cars. >So now I am back to square one. I really would like to use my current axles, but I am open to other possibilities. If anyone is curious about what it looks like, let me know and I will send a photo. A: Send me one, and I will put it in my album! >Thanks for any help. Later, Jamie Phillips (email: jphil78888-at-aol.com) '73 J-4000 '77 F250 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:35:42 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: RE: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! A: A red hot catalytic converter is not normal anyway! Nathan wrote: Thanks for all the input guys. Like I said before it was late Friday night and I didn't even want to mess with it until this weekend. I just wanted some personal experience on my side before I attempted to fix it. Saturday morning I went over and went through all the ignition wiring. I knew that even if the cat was plugged, when I disconnected it the jeep should have started right up. After an hour of going through the wiring (w/o a volt/ohm meter) I found an ignition wire that burned through (it's about time I try out painless). After fixing the wire it took a few attempts but it started right up and purred nicely. There was a noticeable increase in the volt meter. It usually read b/n 12 and 13. Now it stays steady at 14+ volts. I dont even think there is anything wrong with the cat....=) At least I hope not. I'm gonna put it back on tonight and see what happens. My theory is that the ignition wire opened while driving and caused the jeep to stall. When I hopped out and noticed the cat glowing that intensely I automatically assumed that was the problem. I've never really paid attention to the exhaust when it was dark out..... Maybe the carb is running lean which caused the cat to glow, maybe it's running rich.....I got way to much conflicting info on it to know. I think it's running fine. So.....I'm gonna leave it alone. =)) Thanks again for the help. Nate ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:38:01 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! A: According to the spring charts, the '84 is lower, and evry one I pulled up alongside is lower than Elmo (could be because I have a plough spring front setup) Brad wrote: I think they dropped the height around 80 -- before the grand. - -brad A: The Grand Wagoneer is also lower than the earlier FSJs by 1". I'll be measuring everything on the other frame to see if there was any changes there. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:31:07 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Elmo the wonder jeepdoes it again! In 1981 they lowered the Wagoneer by 1", added a lockup torque converter and special discs that set back... john On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, James Blair wrote: >-->A: According to the spring charts, the '84 is lower, and evry one I >-->pulled up alongside is lower than Elmo (could be because I have a plough >-->spring front setup) >--> >-->Brad wrote: >-->I think they dropped the height around 80 -- before the grand. >-->-brad >-->A: The Grand Wagoneer is also lower than the earlier FSJs by 1". I'll be >-->measuring everything on the other frame to see if there was any changes >-->there. >--> >-->~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr >-->http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: >-->http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false >-->================================= >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:35:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: FWD Wanted: FSJ's for sale (In Phoenix area I think) "Len Sullivan" wrote: Hello all Three of my friends are looking for FSJ's to purchase. One is lurking on the list right now......Hi Mike! The other two aren't on the list yet, but I'm working on it. Mike can speak for himself (hint, hint) but judging by what he want's to do with it I think he'd be happiest with either a shortbed J-truck or a WT Cherokee. Friend #2 has specifically asked me to find her (yes, her) a shortbed J-10. Friend #3 is actually looking for two FSJ's.......a J-truck (short or long bed) and a Wagoneer or 4 door Cherokee to haul the family in. So........I've got potential buyers for four FSJ's. I know several of you have rigs for sale, how about some posts? The guy who wants two will be using them for family hauling and light off roading, so stock rigs in good shape will appeal to him. The other folks are going to put together some hard core trail rigs and don't mind swinging wrenches, so trucks with 'trail wear' and modifications won't scare them away. Whether you've got a beater you're tired of looking at or a showroom stock jewel, if it's for sale post a quick description on the list. Who knows, there may be other potential buyers lurking out there........... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:58:14 -0600 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: J4000 Breaks, continued from "new subscriber" I wrote: >I had heard that I could swap brake backing plates out with some other >vehicle system (that I could get parts for), but I don't yet know a good >combination to try. I tried using the backing plates from a '73 >Wagoneer, but the center hole for the shaft was too small and two axle >mounting holes didn't align up. Jim Blair wrote: >A: Change the whole outer hub on the front for newer disc brake setup >with 6 or 8 bolt flange. On the rear you can change just the axle >shafts, and put 8 bolt 3/4 ton ones in AFAIK, and use the brakes as >well. Much more common to find parts for, and much better brakes! (you >can use the power booster, master cyl, and combo valve as well) This option would be the most agreeable for me, but I need a little more info. Any specific make and year that you know of? And this may be a dumb question, but what does "AFAIK" mean? Thanks, Jamie Phillips (jphil78888-at-aol.com) '73 J-4000 '77 F250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:17:30 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: new subscriber I've never worked on a 3/4 ton Jeep but I have some ideas. Specialty Parts (or any other Crown Autoparts distributor) may be your best bet for brake parts. They are at 1-800-227-3848. I think they're in CA. My first thought was that I think my '78 F-250 uses 12" x 2" brakes, but I haven't worked on them in about 5 years so I'm not sure. I see you have a '77. It might be worth comparing. You might be able to find similarities with the front spindles which might allow a swap as well. I'm currently working on swapping a '77 Cherokee Dana 44 with Chevy style front discs onto my '71 while keeping the Ford style bolt pattern. What I've learned is that from '74 - '76 the Wagoneer/Cherokee axle bore similarities to both Ford and Chevy. After that Ford went another direction. It's seems possible that this could apply to 3/4 ton axles as well or maybe 3/4 ton axles remained similar while the lighter ones diverged. Is that confusing enough? Somebody like Stainless Steel Brakes probably has a drum to disk conversion although I don't know if it would work for 8-bolt hubs. Possibly the easiest cheap option would be to swap the ends of the axles (from the ball joints out) to those that already have discs. You might have to swap axle stub shafts as well. If this works, you'll need the master cylinder and proportioning valve from the donor vehicle too. It might save time just to swap out both axles (master cylinder and prop valve) from a newer 3/4 ton FSJ - if you can't find parts for your current drums. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 In a message dated 1/31/2000 1:39:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:10:00 -0600 > From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com (snip) > > *****Truck info/question******** > > After poking around some I finally got a copy of the 1973 Jeep Technical > Service Manual. From this, and looking at my data plate I learned I had: > 1. a Jeep Truck J-4000 (J-4600) 6000 GVW > 2. w/ 360 engine > 3. w/ Hydromatic "400" Automatic Transmission > 4. w/Quadra Trac > 5. 12" x 2" front and rear brake drums > 6. Model 44 Full Floating Front Axle > 7. Model 60-2 Semi-Floating (flanged shaft) > > My problem now is break parts; I can not locate any for the 12" x 2" break > drums (5 bolt pattern). I have checked all of the local parts stores and a > number of online stores that promise to be able to get anything. Still > nothing. > > I looked through a Hollander cross reference book and only some of the "J" > Series trucks used this particular drum. > > I don't have access to a lot of axles, and the ones on my tuck are in such > good shape that I don't really want to swap them out if I don't have to. > > I had heard that I could swap brake backing plates out with some other > vehicle system (that I could get parts for), but I don't yet know a good > combination to try. I tried using the backing plates from a '73 Wagoneer, > but the center hole for the shaft was too small and two axle mounting holes > didn't align up. I took it to a machine shop, but when they put it in a > lath to enlarge the center hole the center of mass was to far off causing > the plate to wobble too much. > > So now I am back to square one. I really would like to use my current > axles, but I am open to other possibilities. > > If anyone is curious about what it looks like, let me know and I will send > a photo. > > Thanks for any help. > > Later, > Jamie Phillips (email: jphil78888-at-aol.com) > > '73 J-4000 > '77 F250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:13:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: dumb question ball joints... i'm familiar with them on a car, but on a full size jeep??? Are they the parts where the steering knuckles attach? Or am I getting some bad info from a shop saying I have a bad ball joint... I've had 15 jeeps and never had a ball joint problem... dana 44 axle... I know, dumb question, suppose I could look at my shop manual... but... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:39:47 From: Saltsgavers Subject: Re: fsj: dumb question Yes, your on the right track. I've seen problems with them getting stiff, but never seen one that was loose, althou I don't know why it couldnt' get that way with enough abuse & sand or dirt exposure. How does it steer? How were the tires wearing on it when you bought it? Mike S. At 04:13 PM 1/31/00 -0800, john wrote: >ball joints... > i'm familiar with them on a car, but on a full size jeep??? Are they >the parts where the steering knuckles attach? Or am I getting some bad >info from a shop saying I have a bad ball joint... > >I've had 15 jeeps and never had a ball joint problem... dana 44 axle... > >I know, dumb question, suppose I could look at my shop manual... but... :) > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:23:18 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: dumb question On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Saltsgavers wrote: >-->Yes, your on the right track. >--> >-->I've seen problems with them getting stiff, but never seen one that was >-->loose, althou I don't know why it couldnt' get that way with enough abuse & >-->sand or dirt exposure. >--> >-->How does it steer? How were the tires wearing on it when you bought it? wonderfully... no wear, new tires... didn't pull with either my studs or the new tires that it came with... my new michelins pull to the right, suspect a bad rim though... waiting for jim to come up with a set I'm horsetrading stuff for so I can have discount remount 'em for me. It's ok that I'm not up to speed on stuff like this... rare problems tend to escape my memory. :) I was driving "Fritz" (81 300D) for a long time and thought all the noises were "normal". turns out he had a major bad wheel bearing... ;) dumb guy... I can check a friends rig out and tell them more than they want to know... but for some reason I don't want to know what's wrong with mine... so long as it goes... self-preservation I guess... :) I get to attempt round two on the brake job from hades tonight... gonna reverse the mounting bracket and bearing retaining plate, oh joy... someone want to invite murphy over for dinner and dessert? Keep him out late, please... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:52:49 From: Saltsgavers Subject: Re: fsj: new subscriber HI guy. I'm just below you about 4 1/2 hours in southern Illinois. What burb are you in? I'm in a town called fairfield (yes, home of the shelton gang & Blackie Harris). What is wrong with your old drums? Mike S. At 03:10 PM 1/31/00 -0600, Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: >Hello, > >I am a new subscriber to this listing and thought I would tell everyone a >little about myself and the Jeep I am working on. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:17:21 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! "Bednarik, Nathan" writes: >> I dont even think there is anything wrong with the cat....=3D) At lea= st I hope not. I'm gonna put it back on tonight and see what happens. My theory is that the ignition wire opened while driving and caused the jeep= to stall. When I hopped out and noticed the cat glowing that intensely I automatically assumed that was the problem. I've never really paid attention to the exhaust when it was dark out..... = Maybe the carb is running lean which caused the cat to glow, maybe it's running rich.....I got way to much conflicting info on it to know. << Nathan, When a cylinder is not firing at all or only partially, there is raw gas getting out into the exhaust. Which will then cause the cat. to r= un really hot trying to burn the excess fuel. Whether or not you're cat. got= hot enough for the insides to start melting depends upon how much unburne= d gas it was trying to burn. You can't drive a cat. equip'd vehicle very fa= r with a cylinder missing or you will kill the cat. Fix the ignition wire 1st. Not sure where you separated the exhaust system, but see if you can get a look in the front-end of the cat. If any= melting was going on, it'll be evident. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 31-Jan-2000 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #707 *************************