From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 1 09:03:19 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, February 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 708 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: new subscriber fsj: J4000 Breaks, continued from "new subscriber" Re: fsj: High HC and CO fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Re: fsj: High HC and CO fsj: straight six - six pack?! Re: fsj: straight six - six pack?! fsj: Re: dumb question Re: fsj: Re: new subscriber fsj: RE: dumb question RE: fsj: dumb question fsj: Bill Freeman's email fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list Re: fsj: Re: new subscriber FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:17:22 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: new subscriber Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com writes: >> 5. 12" x 2" front and rear brake drums 6. Model 44 Full Floating Front Axle 7. Model 60-2 Semi-Floating (flanged shaft) My problem now is break parts; I can not locate any for the 12" x 2" break drums (5 bolt pattern). I have checked all of the local parts stor= es and a number of online stores that promise to be able to get anything. = Still nothing. I looked through a Hollander cross reference book and only some of the "J" Series trucks used this particular drum. << Jamie, Have you tried: http://www.autoparts.com http://www.expressautoparts.com I checked autoparts.com and saw some 12 1/8" x 2" drums listed. Not sure whether they were 5 lug or 8 lug. I believe Jeep used both. If that fails, try getting an e-mail address from the following site and asking if they can help you: http://www.kanter.com Then I would hit the NOS Jeep parts places. There is a Willy's place that advertises in JP Magazine often and their URL escapes me at the moment. Anyone know/have it? They were able to get NOS AMC parts for me i= n the past. It's not www.willysamerica.com. Try...no, this is the correct one: http://www.willysoverland.com/ Also: = http://www.specialtyparts.com http://www.lightlineofla.com Also watch the auction places like Ebay. Some of the most off the wall stuff shows-up there and certainly a set of NOS '73 Jeep brake drums is n= ot out of the question at all. One more I have: http://www.thejeep.com/ Don't have any clue what that one is about. I just threw it in as a bonus= :-). Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 31-Jan-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:31:26 -0600 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: J4000 Breaks, continued from "new subscriber" Mike S. wrote: >HI guy. I'm just below you about 4 1/2 hours in southern Illinois. What >burb are you in? I'm in a town called fairfield (yes, home of the shelton >gang & Blackie Harris). I'm living in Arlington Heights right now, but I started out in Rock Falls/Sterling IL. I also went to school at U of I for a couple of years. >What is wrong with your old drums? The old drums are badly worn and one is cracked completly through on the outer edge. Later, Jamie Phillips '73 J-4000 '77 F250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:48:35 -0700 From: "Chuck Scappaticci" Subject: Re: fsj: High HC and CO I hate the stock carbs for the reasons mentioned below. I put an Edelbrock 1405 (manual choke) in my 88 GW and passed emissions (Colorado) last weekend. It starts great in below zero weather without pumping or incantations to the Jeep Gods. I don't know if they're legal in your state though. My HCs were 142 (idle) 47 (2500 rpm) CO were below 1.0 for both idle and 2500 and I don't think my smog pump is working! I had an Edelbrock 1406 (automatic choke) in a previous live and 75 GW and the carb ran great but started lousy, stick with the manual choke if you get one.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: James Blair To: Borowski, Paul ; Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 1:16 PM Subject: Re: fsj: High HC and CO > A: First thing to check is your choke adjustment. It should be set so > that when the choke is closed cold, that it doesn't have a lot of > pressure on it. The cover on the side should be turned leaner til the > choke opens, then barely closed. The change from warm weather to cold > weather makes the bi-metallic spring tighter. Sounds like it's too tight > to me. Is the hot air hose attached to the air cleaner from the exhaust > manifold? Is the door for the hot air opening inside? Then you have > vacuum leaks, needle and seat wear, carb float sinking because of MTBE > eating it, and then there's the power valves in the HOlley 2150 that > tend to blow out. Scared you enough yet? I'd say if it idles fine > when warm, that your choke is the big problem though. Got any Redline > fuel system treatment there? It'll usually clean everything else out! > > Paul Borowski wrote: > Just took my newly purchased 88 GrandWagoneer in for an emissions test > and it failed because of high HC and CO. It takes about 10 minutes to > warm up and until it does it sputters and tries to die if it is left at > Idol. How about some suggestions on what I should do to work on these > problems. > Any assistance will be greatly appreciated. > Paul > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > ================================= > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:41:56 -0600 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: Catalytic Converter Clogged?!?! Another possibility: Going along with the excessive fuel getting into the exhaust. I had a problem with one of my trucks, where I would be driving along the vehicle would start to stall then BOOM, my muffler would blow up!!! :-) I eventually determined that the ignition module was going bad (especially when it got hot from the engine), failing and then causing unburned fuel to get into the exhaust. This truck doesn't have Catalytic Converter, so the fuel would just hit the muffler. Is it possible your ignition module is causing unburned fuel to get into your exhaust and not blowing it up, but causing it to heat up? Later, Jamie '73 J-4000 '77 F250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:40:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: High HC and CO I loved my 1406 on Old Blue... real smooth, picked up a bit of fuel economy too... john On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Chuck Scappaticci wrote: >-->I hate the stock carbs for the reasons mentioned below. I put an Edelbrock >-->1405 (manual choke) in my 88 GW and passed emissions (Colorado) last >-->weekend. It starts great in below zero weather without pumping or >-->incantations to the Jeep Gods. I don't know if they're legal in your state >-->though. My HCs were 142 (idle) 47 (2500 rpm) CO were below 1.0 for both >-->idle and 2500 and I don't think my smog pump is working! I had an >-->Edelbrock 1406 (automatic choke) in a previous live and 75 GW and the carb >-->ran great but started lousy, stick with the manual choke if you get one.... >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:44:07 -0500 From: Mark Graves II Subject: fsj: straight six - six pack?! Hey all,=20 I know most of us have a 360 or some other form of motivation, but could = a six pack (ala 440 6-pack) be mated to our straight sixes? I ask this = because I saw this kind of set up on a 265 dodge straight six on a mopar = site today.. I have an image if you want it (off list). Curious.. - -Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 18:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: straight six - six pack?! A: I'll take that pic! Don't scan it too heavy though. (Around 72DPI is fine) I'll put it in my photo album. BTW, it's a 225 slant six! There is some pics somewhere for a dual 4 setup for the 4.2L (My buddy Adam has one in Sacremento) I'd sooner have the HO EFI set up though! More power WITH fuel economy. (Adam's car blew away a police 5.0L Mushtang though) A friend of mine had a set of Hillbornes we grafted onto my IH pickup with 258, and I ran 3 2bbl carbs on my '66 Nova and '65 Chev Belair 250 6 cyls. (I know a few tricks for GM straight 6s! Mine ran low 14s) Mark=A0Graves=A0wrote: Hey all, I know most of us have a 360 or some other form of motivation, but could a six pack (ala 440 6-pack) be mated to our straight sixes? I ask this because I saw this kind of set up on a 265 dodge straight six on a mopar site today.. I have an image if you want it (off list). Curious.. - -Mark ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:47:21 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: dumb question In a message dated 1/31/2000 5:18:31 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 16:13:11 -0800 (PST) > From: john > > ball joints... > i'm familiar with them on a car, but on a full size jeep??? Are they > the parts where the steering knuckles attach? Exactly. > Or am I getting some bad info from a shop saying I have a bad ball joint... They can be difficult to diagnose. You have to jack up the front axle and then use a pry bar to lift the wheel just enough to take the weight off the ball joints. Then shake the wheel and see if they are loose. It's not something that is easily done solo. > I've had 15 jeeps and never had a ball joint problem... dana 44 axle... Unless all 15 were new, it's unlikely you never had a problem - more likely that you didn't know you had a problem. > I know, dumb question, suppose I could look at my shop manual... but... :) Nah, those things are just on the shelf to keep the Kid Colt comic books from falling over. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:21:05 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: new subscriber A: Stealth comments below! Ben Williams wrote: I've never worked on a 3/4 ton Jeep but I have some ideas. Specialty Parts (or any other Crown Autoparts distributor) may be your best bet for brake parts. They are at 1-800-227-3848. I think they're in CA. My first thought was that I think my '78 F-250 uses 12" x 2" brakes, but I haven't worked on them in about 5 years so I'm not sure. A: The '78 F-250 uses 11"X 2" or 12"x 2.5" with 8 bolt wheels. In '72, they had 12 1/8" x 2", or 12"x 2.5". >I see you have a '77. It might be worth comparing. You might be able to find similarities with the front spindles which might allow a swap as well. I'm currently working on swapping a '77 Cherokee Dana 44 with Chevy style front discs onto my '71 while keeping the Ford style bolt pattern. A: What you want to keep the 5 bolt axle is IH Scout discs and hubs IIRC. Ask Paul W. >What I've learned is that from '74 - '76 the Wagoneer/Cherokee axle bore similarities to both Ford and Chevy. After that Ford went another direction. It's seems possible that this could apply to 3/4 ton axles as well or maybe 3/4 ton axles remained similar while the lighter ones diverged. Is that confusing enough? Somebody like Stainless Steel Brakes probably has a drum to disk conversion although I don't know if it would work for 8-bolt hubs. Possibly the easiest cheap option would be to swap the ends of the axles (from the ball joints out) to those that already have discs. You might have to swap axle stub shafts as well. If this works, you'll need the master cylinder and proportioning valve from the donor vehicle too. It might save time just to swap out both axles (master cylinder and prop valve) from a newer 3/4 ton FSJ - if you can't find parts for your current drums. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:19:52 -0700 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: dumb question Yes, there are little ball joints where the steering knuckle attaches to the axle housing (if you have open knuckles)...I don't know what the closed knuckles have for attachments as the only closed knuckle setup I have ever had is on my 80 Toyota which I have never dug into. JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 5:13 PM To: full size jeep list Subject: fsj: dumb question ball joints... i'm familiar with them on a car, but on a full size jeep??? Are they the parts where the steering knuckles attach? Or am I getting some bad info from a shop saying I have a bad ball joint... I've had 15 jeeps and never had a ball joint problem... dana 44 axle... I know, dumb question, suppose I could look at my shop manual... but... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:20:52 -0700 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: fsj: dumb question They do get loose, I have that problem currently on the driver side of my 76 Wag. I just have not had the time to dig in and replace them yet. JC Jones :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Saltsgavers Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 6:40 PM To: john; full size jeep list Subject: Re: fsj: dumb question Yes, your on the right track. I've seen problems with them getting stiff, but never seen one that was loose, althou I don't know why it couldnt' get that way with enough abuse & sand or dirt exposure. How does it steer? How were the tires wearing on it when you bought it? Mike S. At 04:13 PM 1/31/00 -0800, john wrote: >ball joints... > i'm familiar with them on a car, but on a full size jeep??? Are they >the parts where the steering knuckles attach? Or am I getting some bad >info from a shop saying I have a bad ball joint... > >I've had 15 jeeps and never had a ball joint problem... dana 44 axle... > >I know, dumb question, suppose I could look at my shop manual... but... :) > >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:03:38 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Bill Freeman's email I don't know what happened, but it just keeps coming back now. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 02:15:01 -0500 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 1/14/2000, rpw; update to special note on compuserve situation] Special Notes 1) messagemedia.com appears to have some significant spam issues, and are blocked from access to this server. 2) Compuserve has had several mail relays added to the Relay Spam Stopper; for this reason, Compuserve customers may have difficulty sending email to the server. The proper solution for this problem is for Compuserve to fix their mail servers. Compuserve apparently plans to fix this problem on or about 1/18/2000. Compuserve customers should direct their concerns to Compuserve support. Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? Some read the ftp archives rather than receiving the list in email. Persons who read the list via email are automatically members, but readers of the FTP archive are not, and need to contact me (rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com) and get your name added to the list of "permitted senders". b) has your email address changed? some of you have had changes in your email address. your old address still works, and is still on the list, but your From: line shows a new address. this can happen for various reasons; you may have changed jobs or ISPs, and left a forward in place, or your IT staff may have fiddled with the email system. you will need to unsubscribe your old email address and subscribe the new one. this may require my involvement, if you can't figure out a way to get your old address off the list using the conventional majordomo commands. you can use the majordomo "which" command to probe for old addresses. send a message to majordomo-at-digest.net with one or more which commands in the body, one per line. to check for potential addresses for Fred Flinstone, formerly of bedrock.org, the following commands can be sent: which flintstone which bedrock note that the matches above might return any of the following addresses, if they appear in the list (in other words, you can use vagueness and incompleteness in your recollection as a tool): Fred.Flinstone-at-bedrock.org fflinstone-at-wilma.bedrock.org flintstonef-at-bedrock.com c) do you have more than one email address? if so, only the subscribed addresses can post, unless you contact me (see 1.a) above for relevant information) d) are you using (intentionally or accidentially) special "features" of your mail client? formats such as html, rtf, and the like, are blocked as they don't work well in digest format and annoy many readers of the digest. most kinds of attachments are blocked for similar reasons -- binaries, word documents, and excel spreadsheets are simply not good things to send to the digest. virtual business cards (a Netscape "feature") are blocked as well. you need to turn off any special features of this type to get your mail through the digest. e) are your posts too large? there is a 10,000 character limit on posting sizes; this is done for various reasons. you can always split up large postings to get mail through. f) are you including majordomo commands at the start of your message? administrivia control is turned on; this is a trap for things like "unsubscribe" at the start of a message. try to avoid obvious majordomo commands in the subject and the first 10 lines, or misspell them in obvious ways (e.g. unzubscribe, 1ndex, h3lp, g3t, etc.) g) are you triggering spam traps? some things are red flags; for example, the following phrases in subject lines are automatically blocked: Important Message From growth stocks free calling card direct e-mail secrets Merchant Account Mass Marketing make money fast Pediatric advice Email ? Million People what "they" don't want are you being investigated the actual list is quite a bit longer; i think you get the idea. h) are you using "funky" character sets? unfortunately, there are "issues" if i permit any character set other than old fashioned 7 level ASCII; therefore, you need to avoid national character sets that include various accents, umlauts, national currency characters such as the British pound symbol, etc. i) are you unintentionally including complete digests in your reply? You need to check and make sure you cut down replys to the minimal size; digests are between 20,000 and 25,000 characters in length, and if you include a complete digest in your reply, it clearly won't make the 10,000 character limit. By the way, this feature is intentional. j) Are you using a "bad" ISP or mail relay? Krusty Motorsports (aka digest.net) subscribes to the "MAPS Realtime Blackhole List" and the "MAPS Relay Spam Stopper". These lists block email from known sources of spam (either ISPs with bad attitudes or policies, or badly managed mail environments.) Interested parties should visit http://www.mail-abuse.org/ for full details. k) Is the error message you get back "User Unknown"? If so, you may be running afoul of MAPS (see j above). MAPS returns an error code of 550, which is a generic code that many broken mail systems report as "user unknown". If you know the IP address of your ISPs mail relay, you can go to the maps web site and test to see if it is on the RBL or the RSS. Additionally, the "rejectlog" entries for the previous day's mail traffic on digest.net are now visible at http://www.digest.net/rejectlog.01 Finally, some of you may find it useful or instructive to use the telnet program to connect directly to port 25 on krusty-motorsports.com and see what kind of reply you get; this requires some technical knowledge and is not for everyone (you can get out of this at anytime after the initial banner simply by typing quit and hitting enter.) 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? a) are you using the right address? send to majordomo-at-digest.net, and the command format is unsubscribe list-name my-email-address b) has your email address changed? majordomo has no way of knowing that Fred.Flinstone-at-BarneyCo.com was once fflintstone-at-bedrock.org. you can check this with the which command (see 1.b) above for details) 3. How do I post to the list? You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:12:59 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: new subscriber In a message dated 1/31/2000 9:47:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, Carnuck-at-webtv.net writes: > I'm currently working on swapping a '77 Cherokee Dana 44 with Chevy > style front discs onto my '71 while keeping the Ford style bolt pattern. > > A: What you want to keep the 5 bolt axle is IH Scout discs and hubs > IIRC. Ask Paul W. Yeah, but they are too hard to come by at the junkyard. Ford parts are much more common - if it works. What's "IIRC"? Ben ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #708 *************************