From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 4 11:35:59 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 711 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #709 fsj: 727 tranny tips fsj: Re: Speaking of California.........(Passed Smog BUT!) Re: fsj: new subscriber Re: fsj: new subscriber fsj: wiper chip fsj: AMC327 to BOP TH400+spacer-->to Buick350 Re: fsj: AMC327 to BOP TH400+spacer-->to Buick350 fsj: FSJ parts galore! fsj: braking news... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 08:00:52 -0800 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #709 Hey James, you used to be a trans mechanic, right? Tell me what to do to make my TorqueFlite last a while. I just didi a total rebuild at 125k, and I'd really like to keep it running :) Also, what's with the extra spring thing on the kickdown linkage that you show in your photo pages? Clark Novak "The Judge," '87 GW > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 17:10:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) > Subject: Re: fsj: Old Blue update > > A: The biggest cause for Dodge tranny failure is abuse and lack of > maintenance. The one in Elmo has over 200,000 on it. It sounds like the > last installer didn't tighten the flexplate crank bolts. The fluid does > flow in neutral BTW. It does flow in park, but not under high pressure. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: 727 tranny tips A: I sure did! We put STP engine oil treatment in every police car and taxi (Dodge type trannies anyway) and increased the life, and lowered the come backs by about 80% due to bad seals burning up the clutches. The increased line pressure from the thickened oil keeps the clutches engaged, and makes them engage a little faster, and the STP lubes all the bushings and bearings so there is no dry starts (what it's supposed to do in engines) Most tranny shops used gelcon assembly lube, which I found out was just a mix of STP and ATF. (Dealers sold it for about $8 a quart!) The extra spring is to keep the upshifts from happening at too low of speed. Ever shifted a std trans into 5th at 30 mph on an uphill while sliding the clutch? It's kind of hard on clutches right? Soft shift and low speed shift ups do the same damage to auto trannies. At low RPM, the pump isn't putting out enough pressure to engage the clutches solid enough, resulting in slippage, and wear. By increasing the RPM, more pressure is applied, and a solider shift happens. Regular maintenance (oil change and band adjust every 2 years) helps too. Tranny temp over 165 degrees F will exponentially wear the tranny as it climbs. Clark=A0Novak wrote: Hey James, you used to be a trans mechanic, right? Tell me what to do to make my TorqueFlite last a while. I just didi a total rebuild at 125k, and I'd really like to keep it running :) Also, what's with the extra spring thing on the kickdown linkage that you show in your photo pages? Clark Novak "The Judge," '87 GW ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 13:21:18 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Speaking of California.........(Passed Smog BUT!) these numbers look great to me... :) pretty cool the way they give you info about the average in your class... sorry to hear about the gestapo techniques on the gas cap... sheesh, even in the military over in Germany they'd at least let you get out of line and head to the PX to buy a light bulb and come back to retest... ;) john At 03:51 PM 2/3/00 EST, RKH911-at-aol.com wrote: >Passed the smog test today without even replacing a hose, here are the >numbers (They mean nothing to this guy - maybe you can give some insight) >look for the BUT later on in this post. >85 GW 360 V8 Tested >2500 RPM TEST >HC (ppm) (MAX 180) (AVG in veh category 0035) 10 >CO (%) (MAX 1.20) (AVG in v cat 00.20) 0.00 >CO2 (%) 11.5 >O2 (%) 4.5 >Tested RPM 2545 > >IDLE TEST >HC (ppm) (MAX 150) (AVG in veh category 0040) 8 >CO (%) (MAX 1.20) (AVG in v cat 00.10) 0.00 >CO2 (%) 13.2 >O2 (%) 2.1 >Tested RPM 1069 > >Now the BUT. In Cali, it seems by law a mechanic has to test your gas cap -at- >1lb pressure and mine failed. I had to pay 17 bucks before I could leave and >you CAN"T go 2 stores down to buy one for 5. MAN! > >If you can tell me what you think of the numbers, I'd appreciate it. > >Rob Harrison >85 Grand Wagoneer > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:15:48 EST From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: new subscriber Yet another Chicago suburbanite........I'm on the southwest side, in Bolingbrook. Working on my '81 Wagoneer that I got off of an Indian Reservation in Nebraska. The name "Rez Runner" has stuck. Having fun in the 6 inches of snow that fell last weekend. Someone went 4 wheelin around the office landscaping this week and a couple of my buddies accused me!!! No comment. I know where all the good parts are for FSJ's around this end of town. - --Vince In a message dated 1/31/00 6:40:14 PM Central Standard Time, chrissys-at-midwest.net writes: << HI guy. I'm just below you about 4 1/2 hours in southern Illinois. What burb are you in? I'm in a town called fairfield (yes, home of the shelton gang & Blackie Harris). What is wrong with your old drums? Mike S. At 03:10 PM 1/31/00 -0600, Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: >Hello, > >I am a new subscriber to this listing and thought I would tell everyone a >little about myself and the Jeep I am working on. > >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:36:08 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: new subscriber snow? haven't seen any this year... and three jeeps in the fleet... :) btw, I'm originally from Crystal Lake... was back there in 98... wow, is it ever flat back there... ;) john At 07:15 PM 2/3/00 EST, UrbFarmer-at-aol.com wrote: >Yet another Chicago suburbanite........I'm on the southwest side, in >Bolingbrook. Working on my '81 Wagoneer that I got off of an Indian >Reservation in Nebraska. The name "Rez Runner" has stuck. Having fun in the >6 inches of snow that fell last weekend. Someone went 4 wheelin around the >office landscaping this week and a couple of my buddies accused me!!! No >comment. I know where all the good parts are for FSJ's around this end of >town. >--Vince > >In a message dated 1/31/00 6:40:14 PM Central Standard Time, >chrissys-at-midwest.net writes: > ><< HI guy. I'm just below you about 4 1/2 hours in southern Illinois. What > burb are you in? I'm in a town called fairfield (yes, home of the shelton > gang & Blackie Harris). > > What is wrong with your old drums? > Mike S. > > > At 03:10 PM 1/31/00 -0600, Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: > >Hello, > > > >I am a new subscriber to this listing and thought I would tell everyone a > >little about myself and the Jeep I am working on. > > >> > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:55:22 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: wiper chip Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) writes: >> Are you sure you got the correct switch? The wrong switch does that. I= put an '86 GW switch and box into a '70 Gremlin and a few Hornets << That's a good question James and I don't know the answer since it was so long ago that I tried. It think the switch came from another '79 but, I don't know for sure. I should compare the one in my Wag. to the switch I attempted to use and see if they're the same. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 03-Feb-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:01:37 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: AMC327 to BOP TH400+spacer-->to Buick350 Brad Feick on the ORC FSJ-List writes: >> The only Nailheads I am aware of are the 401 and 425. As far as them being "lumps" or whatever, there are quite a few tire smoking dual quad Rivs and 401 GSs around that might disprove that, but whatever. << I've driven a Nailhead before. Smooth beyond smooth. They're awesome down= low and in the mid-range thanks to the high port velocity but, small valv= es are small valves and they run out of umph on the high-end. So it doesn't surprise me they'll easily smoke the tires. When geared correctly, there have been plenty of grunt engines which put a high strung SBs on the trailer and then drove home afterwards. >> The 400 was a big block that was in the same family as the 430 and 455= . I had a 69 Stage1 with this 400, and the heads swap onto 430 and 455. In 68 they improved the 340 with a redesign and became the 350. There ARE other blocks that wont interchange with the above mentioned, but they were older and since I was into musclecars don't know much about= them. I DO know that there was an all aluminum V8 that was very small in= displacement and that there was also a 300 CI V8. We're talking like 62 since my neighbor had an old Special and the Skylarks of the same year ha= d the aluminum V8 as we found in the junk yards. As far as the bolt pattern on the TH400s goes, I have a th400/D20 sitting right in front of me from a Buick 350 truck. The bell looks like= BOP with the flat spot on the top. I am getting an NOS Buick 4 speed bel= l UPS today-I am going to hold it up to the th400 to see just what that pattern is or is not. = I am also going to compare this NOS Buick bell from a car to the Buick bell out of a 69 4 speed that is going in Mr Beef. If they are the same,= this is great news to swapaholics, since what it means is that a T18 from= a Buick 350 will swap onto the back of an OLDS, PONCHO, or BUICK big block for those so inclined. << Okay, Here comes the straight skinny. I'm still confused after reading it= so, I'll do my best to confuse you just as much :-). = Buick Nailhead: Intro'd in '53, last used '66. Displacements in order intro'd: 322, 264, 364, 401 (called a "400", used in GSs, not to be confused with the BB 400 intro'd in '67), and 425. Nailheads used two different bell housings. The monkey wrench in this is the TH-400 was intro'd in '64. 1st used at Buick. Before the TH-400 was the Dynaflow which I don't have data for. I seriously doubt Buick changed= the block castings to accommodate a new pattern. The 401 and 425 used the "round-top" bell housing to engine flange." What= I'll call the big engine Nailhead pattern. The 264, 322 and 364 Nailheads= used the "twin ear" converter housing. Latter to become the BOP pattern i= n '67. More later. I'm not 100% sure the 364 belongs in this group. It wasn= 't mentioned specifically. Worth mentioning any Cadillac V-8 being made in 1964 also used the big Nailhead pattern. I think that means the 2nd generation 390 and the 429. In '65 Cad. switched to a different pattern which only lasted until '68. In '68 they went with the BOP. Small-block Buick: Intro'd in '61 last used in '77. Displacements: 300, 340 and 350. All used the "twin ear" converter housing I think. Definitel= y from '64 up they did. Big-block Buick: Intro'd in '67 last used in '76. Displacements: 400, 430= and 455. All used "twin ear" converter housing pattern which was called t= he BOP pattern by then. The all aluminum 215 was only used '61 to '63. It was sold to Rover at some point afterward. I have no data on the bell housing pattern. Whoever said (James was one I think) the big engine Nailhead pattern case= was the one used as the Universal TH-400 case used in FSJs was right on t= he money. That's what GM did starting in '65. They sold the big Nailhead TH-400 case for use with a 2" adapter. I assume the big Nailhead case was= 2" shorter than the other cases since a Universal TH-400 case with adapte= r attached is the same length as a regular TH-400 case. So take the adapter off your Universal Th-400 and bolt-up a 425 Nailhead = or a 429 Caddy V-8. Then figure out what's different to accommodate the extr= a 2" hiding in the converter, input shaft or flexplate and let us know :-).= My sources are Ron Sessions' book on the TH-400 and Peter Sessler's data book on V-8 engines. Bonus: Ron Sessions indicates Jeep used a V-6 from '69 to '72 with the BOP pattern. That's probably the 225. Wonder what trannies were used behi= nd it? I apologize to anyone subscribed to both FSJ lists, but this is just too much fun for just one list :-). Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 03-Feb-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:14:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: AMC327 to BOP TH400+spacer-->to Buick350 Brad Feick on the ORC FSJ-List writes: The only Nailheads I am aware of are the 401 and 425. As far as them being "lumps" or whatever, there are quite a few tire smoking dual quad Rivs and 401 GSs around that might disprove that, but whatever. << A: I only refer to them as lumps, because they had the same poor bottom end oiling problem as the big block Chevs. Crossdrilling the crank did wonders for them too! Ju$t too much buck$! Michael Baxter wrote: I've driven a Nailhead before. Smooth beyond smooth. They're awesome down low and in the mid-range thanks to the high port velocity but, small valves are small valves and they run out of umph on the high-end. So it doesn't surprise me they'll easily smoke the tires. When geared correctly, there have been plenty of grunt engines which put a high strung SBs on the trailer and then drove home afterwards. The 400 was a big block that was in the same family as the 430 and 455. I had a 69 Stage1 with this 400, and the heads swap onto 430 and 455. In 68 they improved the 340 with a redesign and became the 350. A: They also changed the bellhousing! >There ARE other blocks that wont interchange with the above mentioned, but they were older and since I was into musclecars don't know much about them. I DO know that there was an all aluminum V8 that was very small in displacement and that there was also a 300 CI V8. A: Actually, there were 2 different aluminum blocks, that both had the round top nailhead housing. A 301, and 260 something. >We're talking like 62 since my neighbor had an old Special and the Skylarks of the same year had the aluminum V8 as we found in the junk yards. A: The biggest problem with them was the frost plugs behind the timing chain rotted out (steel plugs in an aluminum block! How stupid could you get? I threaded the holes in 6 of them, and put in aluminum pipe plugs) >As far as the bolt pattern on the TH400s goes, I have a th400/D20 sitting right in front of me from a Buick 350 truck. The bell looks like BOP with the flat spot on the top. I am getting an NOS Buick 4 speed bell UPS today-I am going to hold it up to the th400 to see just what that pattern is or is not. I am also going to compare this NOS Buick bell from a car to the Buick bell out of a 69 4 speed that is going in Mr Beef. If they are the same, this is great news to swapaholics, since what it means is that a T18 from a Buick 350 will swap onto the back of an OLDS, PONCHO, or BUICK big block for those so inclined. << A: The std belhousing is a BOP pattern for sure. The only the auto has the adapter ring. >Okay, Here comes the straight skinny. I'm still confused after reading it so, I'll do my best to confuse you just as much :-). Buick Nailhead: Intro'd in '53, last used '66. Displacements in order intro'd: 322, 264, 364, 401 (called a "400", used in GSs, not to be confused with the BB 400 intro'd in '67), and 425. Nailheads used two different bell housings. The monkey wrench in this is the TH-400 was intro'd in '64. 1st used at Buick. Before the TH-400 was the Dynaflow which I don't have data for. I seriously doubt Buick changed the block castings to accommodate a new pattern. The 401 and 425 used the "round-top" bell housing to engine flange." What I'll call the big engine Nailhead pattern. The 264, 322 and 364 Nailheads used the "twin ear" converter housing. Latter to become the BOP pattern in '67. More later. I'm not 100% sure the 364 belongs in this group. It wasn't mentioned specifically. Worth mentioning any Cadillac V-8 being made in 1964 also used the big Nailhead pattern. I think that means the 2nd generation 390 and the 429. In '65 Cad. switched to a different pattern which only lasted until '68. In '68 they went with the BOP. A: At that point, Caddy, Buick, Pontiac and Olds were being combined into a universal configuration, to save money. Because it could take a bigger converter, the BOP won out, plus there was less cast iron used in the motor, which meant less weight, and less machining. >Small-block Buick: Intro'd in '61 last used in '77. Displacements: 300, 340 and 350. All used the "twin ear" converter housing I think. Definitely from '64 up they did. Big-block Buick: Intro'd in '67 last used in '76. Displacements: 400, 430 and 455. All used "twin ear" converter housing pattern which was called the BOP pattern by then. A: EEHHHH! Wrong! I had a '79 Buick Le Sabre with 455 in it! Also, my old boss had one in his '78 Buick Park Avenue (maybe it was a Canadian thing?) >The all aluminum 215 was only used '61 to '63. It was sold to Rover at some point afterward. I have no data on the bell housing pattern. Whoever said (James was one I think) the big engine Nailhead pattern case was the one used as the Universal TH-400 case used in FSJs was right on the money. That's what GM did starting in '65. They sold the big Nailhead TH-400 case for use with a 2" adapter. I assume the big Nailhead case was 2" shorter than the other cases since a Universal TH-400 case with adapter attached is the same length as a regular TH-400 case. So take the adapter off your Universal Th-400 and bolt-up a 425 Nailhead or a 429 Caddy V-8. Then figure out what's different to accommodate the extra 2" hiding in the converter, input shaft or flexplate and let us know :-). A: You would need the torque converter built for a nailhead (still available for about $175 here last I checked) >My sources are Ron Sessions' book on the TH-400 and Peter Sessler's data book on V-8 engines. Bonus: Ron Sessions indicates Jeep used a V-6 from '69 to '72 with the BOP pattern. That's probably the 225. Wonder what trannies were used behind it? I apologize to anyone subscribed to both FSJ lists, but this is just too much fun for just one list :-). =A0=A0 A: There is 2 Pontiacs sitting in the scrapyard near me. A '63 Catalina Convert with 425 (or was it 426?) and a '73 Ponch Gran Prix with 455 HO (unless the crusher got them today) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:44:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: FSJ parts galore! I scored! I just made a package deal on the parts from an '82 Cherokee Laredo (his Jeep was hauled away by the City, because the tabs were expired). So far, the following parts will be for sale: Edelbrock carb, and intake BRAND NEW! $400 obo for both. Crane roller rockers with machined heads (he spent $500 on them, never installed) $400 obo Rebuilt Model 20 (lockright I think) with new 3.31 gears $500 (cost him $800 to have it done) I may use it myself, in which case I'll sell the good one from the '84 GW for $200 (open carrier I think) Open carrier front axle from the '84 GW (vacuum shift) 3.31 ratio. I think there is a new full set of Rough Country 3" springs in there too. (I already have better ones I spent $700 on getting built to my spec) I'll find out later tonight or tomorrow (or saturday if I can't get out early enough) I'm waiting for new wheels for my engine hoist (one snapped, and plouwed me into the door frame of the garage, and caved in the rear left 1/4 of Elmo, fortunately before I replaced it!) Speaking of new wheels, I got a pic of Elmo today with the new 33'x10"boots on (no spring lift yet) and I bet if I put those new wide track fenders I'm getting on the front, they would clear just fine! (well, I'd need to trim the rear a little fore and aft) I think I just might make W/O an offer on one of those '76 Chero bodies! (Did anyone notice if they were 2 dr WT or not?) Then I'LL have the last FSJ built! To my spec no less! (4.0L HO or 4.6L stroker, AW4 or 999 lockup auto, 3.31 gears, NEW NP208, new rad, my own wiring harness, my own dash configuration, 2 gloveboxes, reclining seats that are just hammock style for simplicity, the WHOLE underbody resin coated for rust proofing, ALL holes plugged. Hmm... paint... Anyone ever see the El Camino in CHIPs (or was it Emergency?... yeah that's it!) that was stuck hanging off the end of the deck of a raised drawbridge? High gloss white, with varying shades of blue flames off the front! (2 of my race cars were painted that way) My wife and I have decided to sell our house, and take the (hopefully) profit, pay off all our bills, and travel for a bit. Maybe I'll have to call it Elmo 2? That way Elmo can stay the way he always has been! Who says you need a job to make money? (knock on wood!) {thunk, thunk on my head!} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: braking news... I think I've got the rear disc conversion working... well... I drove up the hill, and stopped on the return trip... a very good sign. Did it a couple times... I'm hearing strange noises, not sure if I screwed up the bearings or it's just the pads seating in on the rotors... Also the brakes got pretty hot first time out... burning off all the grease and crud, especially on the right side... of course that caliper didn't look quite right to me... I don't know... It's gonna take a few days of hard driving to earn my trust. Mark came along for a test ride and said he could tell the difference in the brakes... Two things working against me, I haven't driven the little wag for a week and I'm spoiled by that Mercedes I had... not to mention that my FSJ Stepside has excellent brakes... So, I'm gonna risk life, limb and wagoneer and drive it to work tomorrow... Suppose I should bring the fire extinguisher and cell phone. ;) Thank you whoever invited Murphy over for dinner so I could finish up. :) BTW, I got it working with 8 fender washers... I put the washers on the four bolts holding the assembly to the axle flange... the washers held the bearing retainer out just enough to keep them from binding the bearings... talk about a jury rigged setup... sheesh... NOt sure why there was a problem in the first place... except that the interior diameter of the new backing plate is a little smaller than the original back plate... whatever, it seems to be working... If you read about a horrible fiery crash that happened in the morning commute... well, I enjoyed swapping email with you guys, see ya on the other side, hopefully... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #711 *************************