From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 9 22:27:52 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, February 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 720 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... fsj: naming rigs... Re: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... fsj: Re: Another Wagoneer fsj: Re: tailgate woes fsj: Re: Another Wagoneer Re: fsj: Another Wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: tailgate woes and lists Re: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... Re: fsj: naming rigs... Re: fsj: Re: Another Wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... fsj: Another Wagoneer fsj: A quick and easy job! (was Re: Replacing tumblers in door-lock cylinder) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:09:27 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 12:07:59 -0800 > From: john (snip) > So, I'm posting this, and would like to see everyone respond with what > they'd like from their sweetie if he/she were to buy a present for their > Jeep. Let's put a dollar limit of $250 on the idea. ( ok to add a more > expensive item, but at least one that's not a budget buster... ) (snip) > I'd like those floor mats that will hold a quart of mud/snow/water/sand... > forget > what they're called, but they're about $50 or less... tan please... ;) I got a pair at Cosco for $14 a couple of years ago. They've had them in gray and black ever since, but I haven't kept an eye on the price. I want the dent out of my tailgate. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:08:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: naming rigs... > From: "Phil Marek" > Subject: Re: xj: Rigs with names > Yes, the new name is "Cheraoke"..... (think of Karaoke... :) I'm not sure how I finally came around to naming "Old Blue", but I have a feeling it influenced a lot of folks... However, it was pointed out to me that it seemed so right because someone else had named one of their old Wagoneers "Old Blue"... the late great Graneville King... I found the article that I had read a long time ago... sure miss the old guy... he sure had a creative way of butchering the english language in a way that all could understand and enjoy... Anyone remember what he called his dogs? :) So, that brings me to the current issue of what to call my 83 J10 Stepside. It's copper brown metallic, but if I have my druthers I'll probably paint it the same color as the little wagoneer (light ivory creme or buff yellow). My wife absolutely, and unequivocably, hates it. She says it's a redneck vehicle. I asked her if I should get another Wagoneer rather, she said yes. I think she thinks it should serve as a family rig or something... But my kids are both driving and very soon to leave the nest... well..., I hope... ;) But I LIKE my truck. I don't want to mess around with that stupid rear window no mo'. Besides, the stepside is about the coolest FSJ I've ever owned. I've never seen a Wagoneer the way I want it (fully loaded) with a 6 cylinder... So, let's join our collective heads together and name the Stepside... :) Stanley comes to mind... but it's blank otherwise... :) I'm also thinking of custom plates: FSJ, 83 J10, 83 JEEP... suggestions? And yes, I saw the Seinfeld rerun... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:10:36 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->I want the dent out of my tailgate. I'm gonna cry... it's not that you're so romantic or anything, but I hauled off that wagoneer backend I had... it had a good tailgate... :( I hate throwing stuff away... it never fails that someone could have used it... :( The fenders are still hanging there... waiting for the guy on the other side of the mountains to come and get 'em. ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:21:41 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Another Wagoneer > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:10:40 -0500 > From: fatmac99-at-mindspring.com (snip) > This is a 73 model that is Jerrari orange (first plus). It has 195000 one > owner miles and doesn't run. Guess where I saw it, ebay. It will be on the (snip) > The story goes that the guy bought it exactly as it sits, planning to fix it > up. Then he got sick. That was four years ago. Now he has just had (snip) > Anyway, after this long scribe my question is what is a pretty good Wagoneer > that doesn't run (no one knows why) worth these days. New Orleans is about > 500 miles from me, going and getting it isn't really a big problem. Also, > if I did go down and buy it, what rims (like Chevy's) would fit it as I I know that Chevy 4x4 1/2 ton and Blazer wheels from about '72 to '87 will work. Other years I'm more fuzzy on. I've heard some Toyota wheels will work as well. > don't have any Jeep wheels to take as spares? Here is the lodown on $$: It > started at $250, went to $327.82 (bidding feverishly against some woman in > KY), the reserve was $750, they'd take $500. Good deal? Too much? Body > looks decent, typical rust beginning (their description). Any ideas? > Anyone? Bueller? > > Well thanks again. I feel that much closer to being "one of the guys." Here's how I'd look at it. Some things you can bet are likely to be shot - since it doesn't motivate itself. I'm talking motor, tranny, t-case, belt driven accessories, brakes from sitting 4 years, who knows what else. Add up the cost of rebuilding those things and if that's still less than what you're willing to pay to own and drive it, then the difference is how much you're willing to pay to purchase it. If it doesn't cost as much to put on the road as you guessed it might, then thats gravy. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:25:15 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: tailgate woes In a message dated 2/9/2000 8:59:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:40:06 -0500 > From: Michael Baxter > > Oops, here I go again. Posting to the wrong list. Plus, I'll let the > dual subscribers in on a secret...shhh. I accidentally double-posted to t= > he > other list today. For once, it's not the server's fault :-). But one of t= > he > post doesn't have a reply...suppose that implicates me totally huh I'd promptly report you to the proper authorities, but your gonna have to be more specific about which "other" list you're referring to. This business of trying to monitor 3 FSJ lists is starting to become a strain on my feeble senses. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:37:39 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Another Wagoneer In a message dated 2/9/2000 8:59:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 16:54:09 -0800 > From: john > > Honestly... I'd walk away from it. I'm gonna differ with John a little here. Bear in mind that John has probably forgotten more about Jeeps than I've ever known, but that I'm probably a little more current on this era of Wag. John, you gotta look this stuff up and let me know who's right. > It's the first year they did Quadratrac, but with DRUM brakes in front. Easily convertable to discs due to the open knuckle design. > I'm not sure, but it's probably a 5 lug rim as well, I think they > went 6 lug in 74. I'm pretty sure every Q-trac had 6 lug wheels. > $500 is way too much for one that year, especially if it doesn't run. Maybe not. Consider that a junkyard axle will cost you almost half that. A core 360 will run you $200 without much trouble. It's probably worth $500 in parts if you have potential buyers in your area. If you lived on the North Pole it might be different. > You could buy a running Wagoneer of later vintage rust free up here in the > Northwest > for less than $1,500 and drive it home! I think the best years were in the late '70s. For the same money I'd choose one of those - if I could find one. In my opinion, a $1500 vehicle is unlikely to be much more reliable than a $500 one, so why pay more? Actually, I turned down alot of $4K to $6K Grand Wagoneers before I bought my '71 for $1200. I figured I would be paying extra for a bunch of bells and whistles that were likely to fail at the first opportunity. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:40:41 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Another Wagoneer A: There is a '70 Wag here, not too bad of shape with a bad front axle for $400 with the Buick 350, TH400 and D20. It does need some TLC though. The bolt pattern is Ford 1/2 ton BTW. John wrote: Another Wagoneer Honestly... I'd walk away from it. It's the first year they did Quadratrac, but with DRUM brakes in front. I'm not sure, but it's probably a 5 lug rim as well, I think they went 6 lug in 74. $500 is way too much for one that year, especially if it doesn't run. You could buy a running Wagoneer of later vintage rust free up here in the Northwest for less than $1,500 and drive it home! At 05:10 PM 2/9/00 -0500, fatmac99-at-mindspring.com wrote: Hey y'all. I've found another Wagoneer I think I might want to go look at. You may remember the first one was a complete wreck and the guy didn't know what he had or was talking about. This is a 73 model that is Jerrari orange (first plus). It has 195000 one owner miles and doesn't run. Guess where I saw it, ebay. It will be on the "auction over" list for a month, so go take a look if you want. It is near New Orleans. Anyone who beats me to it just don't paint it a different color:-) The story goes that the guy bought it exactly as it sits, planning to fix it up. Then he got sick. That was four years ago. Now he has just had surgery and is getting rid of it. Does anyone know this man? Bobby, are you on the list? Anyway, after this long scribe my question is what is a pretty good Wagoneer that doesn't run (no one knows why) worth these days. New Orleans is about 500 miles from me, going and getting it isn't really a big problem. Also, if I did go down and buy it, what rims (like Chevy's) would fit it as I don't have any Jeep wheels to take as spares? Here is the lodown on $$: It started at $250, went to $327.82 (bidding feverishly against some woman in KY), the reserve was $750, they'd take $500. Good deal? Too much? Body looks decent, typical rust beginning (their description). Any ideas? Anyone? Bueller? Well thanks again. I feel that much closer to being "one of the guys." Mike Clark Many cars but no Jeeps (yet) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 21:34:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: tailgate woes and lists On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->In a message dated 2/9/2000 8:59:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >-->> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 17:40:06 -0500 >-->> From: Michael Baxter >-->> Oops, here I go again. Posting to the wrong list. Plus, I'll let the >-->> dual subscribers in on a secret...shhh. I accidentally double-posted to t= >-->> other list today. For once, it's not the server's fault :-). But one of t= >-->> post doesn't have a reply...suppose that implicates me totally huh >--> >-->I'd promptly report you to the proper authorities, but your gonna have to be >-->more specific about which "other" list you're referring to. This business of >-->trying to monitor 3 FSJ lists is starting to become a strain on my feeble >-->senses. >-->Ben Williams >-->'71 Wagoneer >-->'78 F-250 :) three lists ain't a problem... I just do one... got kicked off of the one, and won't sign up for the other... ;) I think it's great though that there are three lists. Will help to distribute the traffic and ideas. I'm glad RJ provided another place for folks to go. The thought of 800 plus folks flooding onto this list had me thinking it was time to bail. Hopefully we won't see a massive influx. The problem I've got on the Jeep lists is I don't get as much info as I tend to give out. :) When I had problems with my xj brakes the list went silent on me... :) There's usually always help on the FSJ list... Out of all the lists, I'm still the most comfortable with the FSJ list... it's still home. :) Change is inevitable... we've seen plenty of it. The guys on the FSJ list are indeed friends. On the other lists there isn't the same bond. It may have something to do with the nature of the vehicles, I don't know. I've met a lot of folks from both the FSJ and XJ lists, as well as the DieselBenz list... The folks on the FSJ list have a unique quality to them, no matter what socio-economic category they may be in. It's amazing. I know folks on the list that are extremely poor and folks that are extremely well off... yet they still can meet around the common element of the FSJ. It's not just the list or the internet, but also the Full Size Jeeps that bring us together. I was more broken up by the passing of Joe Sego than when some of my relatives have passed away... I never met Joe... but there was a real friendship there... I have had the pleasure of meeting many of you, and many that aren't on the lists any more, or are on the other list. I've even met Doc and got to ride in Timex. Anyways, list on! :) If you see anything really good in the way of well organized and summarized data, please share it on this list. :) One of my projects is to write a search engine in Perl for the digests on http://www.wagoneers.com I've been finding myself at the UNIX prompt doing greps for certain pieces of info... :) let's see, cd web/FSJ/digests, grep 258 *.txt | more ... :) Hey, anyone in Phoenix? I may try to take a class down there this year, I'm getting tired of visiting California... :) Of course everytime I get down to the bay area Super Ken has done something else to his rig... :) And I keep forgetting to put the pictures up on my site... sheesh... :) ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 00:53:39 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... In a message dated 2/9/2000 9:21:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, john-at-virtual-cafe.com writes: > I'm gonna cry... it's not that you're so romantic or anything, > but I hauled off that wagoneer backend I had... it had a good > tailgate... :( I hate throwing stuff away... it never fails that > someone could have used it... :( Don't cry John. As I recall, it was a '78. Different latches than my '71. Too much work. > The fenders are still hanging there... waiting for the guy on the > other side of the mountains to come and get 'em. ;) When I finally make that trip I'm gonna have a long agenda. Those fenders are gonna hafta share cargo space with the R&P Jim's holding for me. I'll have to find time to visit the fabled land of Olympic 4x4 as well. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:17:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: naming rigs... A: It's not PC, but that color is actually beer bottle brown! Maybe call it Rainier? LOL! Brownie points! LOL! John wrote: Yes, the new name is "Cheraoke"..... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0(think of Karaoke... :) I'm not sure how I finally came around to naming "Old Blue", but I have a feeling it influenced a lot of folks... However, it was pointed out to me that it seemed so right because someone else had named one of their old Wagoneers "Old Blue"... the late great Graneville King... I found the article that I had read a long time ago... sure miss the old guy... he sure had a creative way of butchering the english language in a way that all could understand and enjoy... Anyone remember what he called his dogs? :) So, that brings me to the current issue of what to call my 83 J10 Stepside. It's copper brown metallic, but if I have my druthers I'll probably paint it the same color as the little wagoneer (light ivory creme or buff yellow). My wife absolutely, and unequivocably, hates it. She says it's a redneck vehicle. I asked her if I should get another Wagoneer rather, she said yes. I think she thinks it should serve as a family rig or something... But my kids are both driving and very soon to leave the nest... well..., I hope... ;) But I LIKE my truck. I don't want to mess around with that stupid rear window no mo'. Besides, the stepside is about the coolest FSJ I've ever owned. I've never seen a Wagoneer the way I want it (fully loaded) with a 6 cylinder... So, let's join our collective heads together and name the Stepside... :) Stanley comes to mind... but it's blank otherwise... :) I'm also thinking of custom plates: FSJ, 83 J10, 83 JEEP... suggestions? And yes, I saw the Seinfeld rerun... ;) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Another Wagoneer On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->> I'm not sure, but it's probably a 5 lug rim as well, I think they >-->> went 6 lug in 74. >--> >-->I'm pretty sure every Q-trac had 6 lug wheels. I checked. 6 lug came out in 1974. QT came out in 1973. :) >-->I think the best years were in the late '70s. For the same money I'd choose >-->one of those - if I could find one. In my opinion, a $1500 vehicle is >-->unlikely to be much more reliable than a $500 one, so why pay more? >-->Actually, I turned down alot of $4K to $6K Grand Wagoneers before I bought my >-->'71 for $1200. I figured I would be paying extra for a bunch of bells and >-->whistles that were likely to fail at the first opportunity. I've had several years of FSJ's. 65, 67, 69, 77, 78, 80, 81 and 83. Each year has it's advantages and character. I really believe they just got better and better. There are distinct ranges of good years. My first recommendation is 88 and up, then 86 and up, then 81 and up. Then 74 and up. In 88 a lot of the electrical issues related to wiring were resolved. In 86 they integrated the heating / ac system controls and added headrests. In 81 they did a few things to modernize for economy. In 74 they went to 6 lugs, and disc brakes... For the best engines I'd have to agree with Ben, the late 70's had the best power and options... 2v or 4v, even the 401... :) But in reality, any year FSJ is worth having though... :) ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 22:14:14 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Valentines Day gift ideas... On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >-->In a message dated 2/9/2000 9:21:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, >-->john-at-virtual-cafe.com writes: >--> >-->> I'm gonna cry... it's not that you're so romantic or anything, >-->> but I hauled off that wagoneer backend I had... it had a good >-->> tailgate... :( I hate throwing stuff away... it never fails that >-->> someone could have used it... :( >--> >-->Don't cry John. As I recall, it was a '78. Different latches than my '71. >-->Too much work. >--> >-->> The fenders are still hanging there... waiting for the guy on the >-->> other side of the mountains to come and get 'em. ;) >--> >-->When I finally make that trip I'm gonna have a long agenda. Those fenders >-->are gonna hafta share cargo space with the R&P Jim's holding for me. I'll the fenders are light, will easily ride on the roof rack. :) >-->have to find time to visit the fabled land of Olympic 4x4 as well. you mean you didn't stop by on your way out last time??? >--> >-->Ben Williams >-->'71 Wagoneer >-->'78 F-250 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:29:08 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Another Wagoneer >I've found another Wagoneer I think I might want to go look at. You may [snip] >This is a 73 model that is Jerrari orange (first plus). It has 195000 one [snip] >The story goes that the guy bought it ... Now he has just had >surgery and is getting rid of it. Wow, I'm attached to my FSJ's, but you wouldn't need to perform surgery on me to separate me from them... ;) >that doesn't run (no one knows why) worth these days. New Orleans is about [snip] >started at $250, went to $327.82 (bidding feverishly against some woman in >KY), the reserve was $750, they'd take $500. Good deal? Too much? Body >looks decent, typical rust beginning (their description). Any ideas? A rusty, non-running, nearly 200,000 mile truck? I'm sure the interior isn't in mint condition either. You're looking at potentially $1500 *just* to get it on the road (wheels, tires, body-work, engine work, tranny work, brakes, interior, transporting it home, etc.). Could you find a better $2000 FSJ nearby? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 06:29:18 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: A quick and easy job! (was Re: Replacing tumblers in door-lock cylinder) Well, folks, thanks to the pointers that the lock-cylinder innards are retained by the stainless cap, I dug in to see how hard it was to swap the tumblers from my damaged lock cylinder to a better one I had lying around. In a word, it was a snap! I put some water on to make a cup of tea, then started examining the old cylinder; the outer cover attaches to the lock cylinder like a bottlecap. I first tried a bottle-opener, but that didn't work, so I took a flat-blade screwdriver, and gently started prying out the crimp holding that cap on. By this time, the water was boiling, so I shut it off, poured the water to let the tea steep, and finished removing the cap. I was afraid that all the tumblers would shoot out all over the place, but they are neatly retained in a little catridge. That was the part I wanted to swap into the better cylinder, whose cap I was able to pry off in about five minutes. I swapped in the inner cartridge with the tumblers I wanted, installed the spring-loaded lid that sits under the cover, popped the cover back on, and gently peened it back over with a hammer. I'd like to say that the tea was still piping-hot when I finished, but I had to pop it in the microwave for 20 seconds. I'd say it took me a half-hour the first time through; I could probably do it again in 15 minutes. So tomorrow morning, I'll pop in the rejuvenated lock while the truck is warming up, and be happy I saved the $10-$25 a locksmith would have charged me. :) Bob Barry http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #720 *************************