From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 18 16:42:41 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, February 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 738 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: the touch Re: fsj: Re: Quadratrac Questions... fsj: More accessories for Julie Re: fsj: More accessories for Julie Re: xj: Re: Re: fsj: axles and swaps... fsj: LPG Re: xj: Re: Re: fsj: axles and swaps... fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 2v HP/torque Re: fsj: More accessories for Julie fsj: Hey John... fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) fsj: Anyone looking for a snack for their FSJ? fsj: Electrical draw fsj: Re: Need help...Gonna shoot my Jeep Re: fsj: RE: 12.76 mpg fsj: what's a little rust anyway? only $355! Re: fsj: RE: 12.76 mpg fsj: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 2v HP/torque fsj: NEW ONLINE FSJ PHOTO GALLERY - SUBMISSIONS WANTED FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:17:21 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: the touch At 10:55 AM 2/18/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: Not hard to see why I quit using a timing light huh? If this >catches you before you fuel up, try mid grade and see if that perks it >up a bit yet! PS: Arco gas sucks in these AMC sixes. Since you have a >(toilet) Holey on there now, gas flushes down pretty easy anyway, but >the cheaper gas plugs up the jets in BBDs. The other intake I have is >the heated aluminum one. I've got the heated plate already... only use Shell and Texaco, mainly because that's where I used to get my Diesel from and they are very competitive and pretty much nationwide... I used to have a BP and Standard Oil card... shoot, I used to work for a Standard Oil station as a mechanic back in high school... :) A long time ago in a far off land adjacent to the windy city... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:18:40 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Quadratrac Questions... At 11:02 AM 2/18/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: They changed the spec on it later. The ATF had higher detergents to >keep it clean, plus people neglected to change it and it would break >down faster than ATF (synthetics were just coming out then) You'll find >that most NP219s that blew up had 10w/30 in them, and were used hard. AMSOIL has been around since 1973... :) Mobil One surfaced in the mid to late 70's, but it is a synthesized hydrocarbon, reworked dino oil if you will, good nonetheless... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:30:40 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: More accessories for Julie Hi, Over the past couple days, Julie got a stereo. Sony XR-C6120 pretty well loaded for $140, and 2 pairs of Nakamichi (made in US) 5 1/4" spkrs. Sounds pretty good. Bad exhaust leak though. Where's a good place to get the cardan joint grease adapter ? NAPA gave me a blank stare. Just your avg. 4WD specialty shop ? Read in the owner's manual that 13 psi warm idle oil pressure is acceptable. Depends who you ask I guess. - - Landon 89 GW 'Julie' Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:50:12 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: More accessories for Julie At 03:30 PM 2/18/00 -0600, Landon Tesar wrote: >Hi, > >Over the past couple days, Julie got a stereo. Sony XR-C6120 pretty >well loaded for $140, and 2 pairs of Nakamichi (made in US) 5 1/4" >spkrs. Sounds pretty good. > >Bad exhaust leak though. turn up the stereo ;) > >Where's a good place to get the cardan joint grease adapter ? NAPA gave >me a blank stare. Just your avg. 4WD specialty shop ? did the same for me, then I talked about a needle attachment and the lights came on and they walked me to the display... john > >Read in the owner's manual that 13 psi warm idle oil pressure is >acceptable. Depends who you ask I guess. > >- Landon >89 GW 'Julie' >Austin, TX > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 13:40:49 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: fsj: axles and swaps... A: Well, as I write this, I was watching the news, and they said that because of the higher gas prices (and other factors) that interest rates may go up, and Wall Street panicked, making this another Black Friday (Dow dropped 231 points!) I know this isn't economics, but if it costs more for fuel, it's not just from farm to market. Equipment runs on fuel, electricity comes from a lot of power plants that run on fuel, so that cost goes up, the places that stockpile foods need electricity, people that work there drive, and will need more money for gas, and the parts for your Jeep have to be delivered and ect, ect. Do you see how it all snowballs? It's kinda like that hakuna matotta thing (circle of life) you mess with one part, and it changes the next, and keeps coming back to bite ya! (Never heard of a viscous circle?) I wrote: The new system they came out with should make the gas price boost a little easier to take. They are getting up to 50 MPG from a rig like ours! Instead of 14:1 gas/fuel mix, they are getting 50:1 and making it run! Elmo is getting this setup, with a NP208. If gas jumps that much, food will also jump to double, and we will see the economy hit the crapper, due to out of controll inflation, just like it did in Canada! Bruce wrote: I wouldn't worry too much about the gloom and doom of inflation. Last summer reg. unleaded gas was $1.80 to $2.00 per gallon here in Northern California and food prices weren't seriously effected. Even if food prices do go up a little there's no reason why they should double. The main expense of producing food isn't the gas to haul it to market. Yes, gas prices can effect other prices but for very few items are they the biggest factor in figuring the final price of the product. Enough of my armchair economics. Back to XJs. Bruce ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:01:07 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: LPG In a message dated 2/18/2000 1:15:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:43:41 -0800 (PST) > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) > > A: It's still on Elmo for now, but I plan to go LPG REAL quick! I'm > trying to decide if OHG (over the Hill Gang) is still tops, or someone > else is doing it better now. Any LPG lists around? Any OZ members? Jim - Here's a old post I saved on the subject. Ben >Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:13:31 +1100 >From: "Rod & Brenda" >Subject: [FSJ-List] LPG Injection systems > >Tom, Ray, and Troy & Rick (cause I know your interested) in response to your >propane or LPG discussion - check out these links. > >At Rick's suggestion I am going to put together a special LPG info links >page on the Anzac web site sometime soon ...... > >http://www.bazuin.com//OHG.html existing Gas carbs and technology > > >http://www.autolpg.com/AUTOCOM/smart.HTM#anchor205359 follow the >'equipment & systems' link > >http://www.sunstar.com.au/efigas/ an aussie EFI LPG (single piont) system > >http://www.auto-lpg.com/uk/dgi1.htm - Dutch digital MPI for LPG > >http://wps.com/LPG/LPG-book-final.html#SYSTEM DESIGN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:09:16 -0600 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: Re: xj: Re: Re: fsj: axles and swaps... What really bugs me though is that gas stations increase the price we pay for gas that was made when oil prices were low (before an increase). They contend that they must pay "replacement" costs. (ie the money you pay at the pump is used to buy new oil, not pay for the oil used to create the gas going into your vehicle) But on the other end, when oil prices go down, the price of gas doesn't drop nearly as quickly. Usually the only reason it drops is because of compitition and the gas company can easily afford to drop the prices. Later, Jamie "can't wait 'till I'm in charge" Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 17:09:52 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 2v HP/torque In a message dated 2/18/2000 1:15:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:10:51 -0500 > From: Michael Baxter (snip) > The biggest friction > culprit is the pistons in the bores. The bigger the bore, the more surfac= > e > area on the rings and piston skirts you have in contact with the cylinder= > > walls. This reminds me of something I read the other day. The text indicated that piston skirts normally have some contact with cylinder walls. I always thought that the rings were supposed to be the only thing in contact with the cylinder walls. Is the piston tapered from top to bottom? The only one I ever saw was came out of a 5hp Briggs & Stratton and I wasn't looking that closely. What is the skirts function? Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 16:14:32 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: Re: fsj: More accessories for Julie Oh, yeah. I knew I could justify the name 'Julie', she's high maintenance. Ha - - - L john wrote: > At 03:30 PM 2/18/00 -0600, Landon Tesar wrote: > >Hi, > > > >Over the past couple days, Julie got a stereo. Sony XR-C6120 pretty > >well loaded for $140, and 2 pairs of Nakamichi (made in US) 5 1/4" > >spkrs. Sounds pretty good. > > > >Bad exhaust leak though. > > turn up the stereo ;) > > >- Landon > >89 GW 'Julie' > >Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:31:25 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: Hey John... There are some brochures in here...Thought you might want to add to your collection... Landen Schooler wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=262486599 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=259137047 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=262629919 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=262628902 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=263298340 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=263451657 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=263455548 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261158426 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=263503334 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=263773197 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260060274 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260324859 Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:39:59 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) Bon Jour! That's about as far as my French goes. :) I've travelled through France several times while I was stationed in Germany. I flunked French in the 6th grade. I love the image on your page, very, very beautiful. Very creative. http://members.aol.com/cherokeelst/ I will pass this link on to both the FSJ (full size Jeep) and xj (downsized cherokees) lists. You are welcome to join us on either list, if your English can handle the slang of American gearheads. :) ttyl, john At 05:09 PM 2/18/00 EST, Cherokeelst-at-aol.com wrote: >Hello, > >My is name is Gilbert Mochot and I live in France. I am fond of Jeep >Cherokee, as you. I have visited your home page and found it very >interesting. So I have made a link in my home page. > >I have created a home page for the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee where you can >find a French and European owners' gallery and I have just installed a >gallery for the American owners. If you could visit my home page, I will be >very happy and even if you register in the gallery, it would be still better >! So you could create another link towards your home page with your logo and >a few pictures. > >I give you the address : > >http://www.cherokee.fr.st/ >or >http://members.aol.com/cherokeelst/ > >The home page is in French but I intend to translate it in English. > >Hope to get soon some news from you on my home page ! > >Gilbert Mochot > >My Jeep: Cherokee XJ Limited 4.0L I-6 year:1989 > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:34:30 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: Anyone looking for a snack for their FSJ? Atc1man-at-aol.com wrote: > 1998 4x4 2 door 5speed, softtop Tracker. Used offroad very little, very > clean. Removable carpet, am/fm/cass a/c cruise 15000 miles. White with Tan > softtop and gold trimmed rims, If you would like a pic email me, i'll get one > this afternoon > 10000 firm. > Located in Beaumont TX > email me offlist > atc1man-at-aol.com Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:41:30 -0700 From: "Berry, Bradley A" Subject: fsj: Electrical draw OK guys, here's a new one for you. I just changed out my alternator because it had the annoying habit of forgetting to charge my battery on occasion. It had always remembered what it was doing somewhere along the line, but it was aggravating driving around with my voltmeter sitting on the bottom end of the scale for the first five or ten minutes on the days that it would do this. So the one I have now makes an annoying whirring sound on occasion, but I'll live with it until I decide to take it back. In the meantime, my heater draws an ungodly amount of current. If I'm driving around, and I turn my headlights, foglights, stereo, etc. on, the voltmeter needle doesn't move. But when I turn the heater blower on full blast, the needle drops about a volt. I can't quite figure this one out. I would think that if the blower was pulling that much current, it would blow the fusible link. I don't think it's a weak alternator, because I noticed the same effect on the old alternator as well. Is the heater just wired in close enough to the voltmeter that it has this effect, or is there something wrong with the motor? Old and dying motor windings, or maybe something wedged in the fan cage causing more drag? Brad Berry 88 GW ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:26:42 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Need help...Gonna shoot my Jeep replace your starter, it sounds like the bendix is hanging up. It could also be the starter relay, but not as likely. been there, done this and swapped in a boatload of FSJ starters on my 360's... john At 05:50 PM 2/18/00 EST, RKH911-at-aol.com wrote: >Ok, I'm about done with it!! venting now. >Last time, I was experiencing problems with warm starts....replaced the >starter and the starter switch and all seemed ok...till today. >Took it to the store, went in and when I turned the key the starter switch >just made a nnnnnnnnnk sound every time I turned the key. DAMN I >thought...Ok wait a while like I used to do but nothing (noticed if I turned >my lights on - nothing and noticed my radio cutting on and off). >Anyway, a guy came by and I asked for a jump. Hooked up the cables and it >went dead...nothing. Heres where it gets good. we thought we'd just let it >sit for a moment (Battery is good BTW) so I REMOVED the keys and then a >second later the Jeep started to try and start ITSELF! didn't turn over but >I think it was the starter just spinning away..ran back put keys in ignition, >on and off and it stopped... >Now can anyone tell me what they think of this?? >I have a long message to write later about things I found last week but this >Jeep is killing me...My only means of transpo and I'm about to put a slug in >it! >You're advice would much appreciated... > >Rob Harrison >85 not so Grand Wagoneer > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 08:48:16 -0800 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: Re: fsj: RE: 12.76 mpg John, Have you thought about just swapping the 4.0's intake and exhaust manifolds? Seeing as how your 4.0 is non-HO, you won't be getting much improvement (if any) using the non-HO head vs. a 258 head (OK...well the valves are a little bigger, but is that really worth all that effort?) The reason you might be able to pull it off is that we all know that the 258 and 4.0 are almost identical externally. I've heard of people using the HO MPI manifold on a 258 (myself included) and I've also seen where someone has used a HO head with a 258 intake manifold (this was on a 258 application where the person wanted an HO head and also to run a Howell injection system...therefore needed a stock 258 intake). In the case of a 258 intake on an HO head, the only thing he needed to do was file a notch onto the bottom of the intake tabs that have the alignment holes that mate with the pins on the head. This was to raise the manifold up to meet the raised intake ports on the HO head. But your non-HO head doesn't have raised ports.....so maybe it will mate up to the 258 head.....just a guess, someone will have to match 'em up to see if it's possible. Later, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:40:19 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: what's a little rust anyway? only $355! east coasters, heads up... a screamin' deal is to be had... rofl... if this is "decent" shape, than I'm driving a showroom special... man, I don't miss the salt on the roads. I thank the Lord for the climate I'm in... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261158426 - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:43:50 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: RE: 12.76 mpg wow. This is a great idea. Actually, I'd be happy just trying the intake manifold... The only other issue is the distributer and wiring... Wow. Maybe I can take some pictures/measurements of the 4.0L intake and have someone with a dead or loose 258 compare. BTW, how'd you do your MPI? Do you have a write up and pictures of it? I'd love to 1) read it, and 2) post it on my website, and 3) include it in the mythical book of FSJ's I keep thinking and talking about and gathering data for... you ought to see my office... about 1/2 of it is FSJ brochures, pictures and manuals... it's gonna be hard shrinking and consolidating what I have... john At 08:48 AM 2/5/00 -0800, Thomas Anhalt wrote: >John, > Have you thought about just swapping the 4.0's intake and exhaust >manifolds? Seeing as how your 4.0 is non-HO, you won't be getting much >improvement (if any) using the non-HO head vs. a 258 head (OK...well the >valves are a little bigger, but is that really worth all that effort?) > >The reason you might be able to pull it off is that we all know that the >258 and 4.0 are almost identical externally. I've heard of people using >the HO MPI manifold on a 258 (myself included) and I've also seen where >someone has used a HO head with a 258 intake manifold (this was on a 258 >application where the person wanted an HO head and also to run a Howell >injection system...therefore needed a stock 258 intake). In the case of >a 258 intake on an HO head, the only thing he needed to do was file a >notch onto the bottom of the intake tabs that have the alignment holes >that mate with the pins on the head. This was to raise the manifold up >to meet the raised intake ports on the HO head. > >But your non-HO head doesn't have raised ports.....so maybe it will mate >up to the 258 head.....just a guess, someone will have to match 'em up >to see if it's possible. > >Later, >Tom > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:18:39 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 2v HP/torque Robert Barry writes: >> Taxable horsepower doesn't actually have anything to do with the power output or friction losses of an engine; it is a figure calculated from the bore size and number of cylinders of the engine, originally for taxation purposes in England. << That would explain why they didn't publish the test RPM :-). Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 18-Feb-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 19:44:36 EST From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: NEW ONLINE FSJ PHOTO GALLERY - SUBMISSIONS WANTED Now that I have finished for the time being on my Super Wagoneer "shrine" and registry, which can be visited at: http://jeepwagoneer.homepa ge.com/SW1.html (Super Wagoneer homepage) http://jeepwagoneer .homepage.com/SWregistry.html (Super Wagoneer registry) I'm about to start something a bit more ambitious, an FSJ photo gallery by category (Wagoneers, Cherokees and Pickups), using a similar format as the registry page. If you would like to be included, please send me an exterior photo of your rig, either static or in action along with the following information: Owner's Name with e-mail address City and state Year of vehicle Vehicle identification number Drive train components Notable features, mileage Length of ownership If the vehicle is static, I'd prefer a shot of you with your rig but any clear, sharp, well-exposed digital image will be OK. Keep files uncompressed and less than 200KB if possible. I prefer JPGs. My goal will be to ultimately have at least one example for every year for each of the three categories. For those who are working on the FSJ identification guide, once they are posted, you'll be welcome to access them. Another goal will be for JP Magazine and some of the other 4WD and off-road publications world wide, cover this effort. Finally, when I have some serious time to devote to the project, I'd like to start work on my comprehensive 1963 - 1991 FSJ History CD-ROM. If you do take a few minutes to visit my Super Wagoneer page, please stop and leave a note in the guest book. I've joined a few additional web rings (AMC & MOPAR) so I hope that our side of the hobby gets exposed to additional enthusiasts...after all everyone has either driven or owned a Jeep at some point in their lives. Best wishes to all, Richard Truesdell ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #738 *************************