From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Feb 20 07:51:28 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, February 20 2000 Volume 01 : Number 741 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) Re: fsj: stroker club or a Diesel... Re: fsj: Re: Need help gonna shoot my Jeep fsj: getting 20mpg out of my I-6... Re: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) Re: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) fsj: Re: xj: Late Night with Aaron fsj: Re: Quadratrac Questions... Re: fsj: a thanx... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:11:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) A: Bonsoir Monsieur Mochot! Je suis James Blair et je suis Canadienne. Le pardon mon Fran=E7ais faible, mais c'a =E9t=E9 des ann=E9es depuis le lyc=E9e. Nous avons plaisir =E0 conduire notre omnibus marche-arr=EAt de jeeps et attendons avec int=E9r=EAt d'entendre parler du v=F4tre. You can get a basic english french translation for your website through http://www.altavista.com John =E9crits: Bon Jour! That's about as far as my French goes. :) =A0 I've travelled through France several times while I was stationed in Germany. =A0 I flunked French in the 6th grade. I love the image on your page, very, very beautiful. Very creative. http://members.aol.com/cherokeelst/ I will pass this link on to both the FSJ (full size Jeep) and xj (downsized cherokees) lists. You are welcome to join us on either list, if your English can handle the slang of American gearheads. =A0 :) ttyl, john At 05:09 PM 2/18/00 EST, Cherokeelst-at-aol.com wrote: Hello, My is name is Gilbert Mochot and I live in France. I am fond of Jeep Cherokee, as you. I have visited your home page and found it very interesting. So I have made a link in my home page. I have created a home page for the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee where you can find a French and European owners' gallery and I have just installed a gallery for the American owners. If you could visit my home page, I will be very happy and even if you register in the gallery, it would be still better ! So you could create another link towards your home page with your logo and a few pictures. I give you the address : http://www.cherokee.fr.st/ or http://members.aol.com/cherokeelst/ The home page is in French but I intend to translate it in English. Hope to get soon some news from you on my home page ! Gilbert Mochot My Jeep: Cherokee XJ Limited 4.0L I-6 year:1989 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:37:09 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: stroker club or a Diesel... Paul W wrote: (snip) the best way to power a big SJ if you insist on keeping a six. ;) (Actually, I'm surprised he hasn't revived the diesel power idea for this one!) John wrote: >I explained some of my reasoning in a previous note. I've done so many custom setups that it's hard for me to remember what is what. I'm better off sticking to what is stock or close to stock so I don't mess something up real bad. I'd end up having someone do something to it and forget to tell 'em that the insides are different and we'd probably mess it up. It's obvious for most mechanics to see that you have a different ignition or carb/FI setup... internal stuff is fine if you use parts designed for the same engine... mixing and matching components has a negative effect on overall reliability... something most of us can live with... Problem is I have no desire to build a beefy motor. The last one I built is still pushing my first FSJ around quite nicely over on the Pennisula! Pretty cool to see it still going after 12 years. But that's the same motor that could have gotten me in lots of trouble... ;) I'm better off in a rig that has just enough power to make it go... I spent too many years on the Autobahn... they have speed limits in this country doncha know... A: I have that same concern, plus passing the gas pump as often as possible is more desireable these days! >The Diesel conversion is one that would probably be as easy as converting to a 4.0L... Actually, there'd be less wiring involved. A: Less wiring, but more engineering! More lift in the front, more motor mount work, driveshafts, diff ratios (hmm, sounds like you'll need some 2.72s! LOL!) >Either conversion is fine by me. My lower back and sciatica have been behaving, mostly... =A0 The clutch setup in an FSJ is much better than an XJ. There are times I have to roll up to a light in neutral though... I can tell that my left leg is fixing to go into a major spasm... not fun... but my commute is painless and mild... I guess most folks don't like driving past Dairy farms. :) Sure it gets pretty ripe, but hey, when you're sippin' on a Latte it just kinda blends together ok... ;) A: I found the shortcut across the valley second to last time I was there. Reminded me of where I grew up! >In the meantime, Superdawg is doing pretty well. My next major project on him is to get the ride to improve. I'll be taking the spring packs apart and using Wagoneer springs, new friction pads and greasing 'em up with amsoil synthetic. My trick worked pretty good on Old Blue, he ramped quite nicely. :) The J10 only weighs about 4,100 lbs, while Old blue was closer to 5,000 lbs... I can tell the J10 has heavier springs than a wagoneer... so I either need to load ballast, or put in "weaker" springs. A: Why not just go for Edelbrock shocks? They seem quite the nice ride. >Anyways, I'm after economy, quiet, nice ride, and the capability of light hauling, wheeling and dealing with bad weather... A: And no back window! LOL! I'm glad I didn't bother with the electric in Elmo when I first got it. That manual crank only let me down once (when the bracket on the bottom of the glass broke from rust) so far. >I'm still gonna try and get that No-Slip setup... haven't had time to call Randy Lyman and ask his opinion of it yet. The guy is a mechanical marvel with the stuff... he really is very knowledgeable, and he is a degreed engineer. I hope the weather holds for a few more days... I'm off Monday... quite a surprise as I didn't get President's day off when I worked at boeing... A: Gotta work my butt off tomorrow (Hoping to sell my 22' Wildworld travel trailer at noon) I towed it home tonight, and had to wire up the plug, because I forgot my adapter at home. Some SOB stole the plate off it :^( but I had a trip permit anyway. I towed it home up to 50 mph, because I didn't have electric brakes hooked up, but I had no trouble, even on downhills. I sure lost a lot of power from running out of oil though! I had to shift down to 2nd gear on the hills coming up to my place, and I heard the first ping since last summer! >I'd love to get the cab lifted tomorrow and then start on the springs... A: I'll be cruising past after noon with my buddy's '79 Lincoln, because it sat for 2 years and needs to be run out, especially the old gas! It'll be ready for emission testing on tuesday. (snip) >Oh well... are we ever happy with our toys? Heck no. Because they're old and in a continual state of improvement... ;) Our dissatisfaction drives our creativity. Creativity is a good thing. Civilization tends to advance from it. =A0 Guess it's true, real Jeeps aren't bought, they're built. ;) A: I hear ya there! :^) That's why Elmo is getting a full face lift and tummy tuck! (the EFI O/D should use a little less gas, especially if I go LPG!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:49:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Need help gonna shoot my Jeep John wrote: Jim... you've amazed me again... :) Sometimes you go off on something I've never heard of before and I wonder if we'll need a net to reel you in... =A0 And then you spot something like this... bravo. I'm still wondering about the STP in the tranny... Back in High School some of us played around with that stuff in some small engines... yech. A: I don't put it in engines! Moreys makes power punch, which does essentially the same thing. I bought a 1/2 dozen bottles yesterday at Al's closeout sale for $2 each (reg $5) and you'll find that stuff in LOTS of semitractor trannies! >I haven't checked my fuel economy on Super Dawg yet... but he seems to be running pretty well after your "touch". A: Heck, timing isn't rocket science! I'm thinking about going to teach auto class in one of the highschools around here. >Keep up the good work... but I'm gonna keep this here butterfly net handy, jus' in case... ;) A: It's okay. My psyche nurse will be here soon with my medication! (my wife is an RPN) >BTW, looking like a pretty good possibility I'll be around when you come by Sunday afternoon... or nearby... I'll email my cell number off list, or do you already have it? A: The 308#? got it >I may be up the road installing an electric gate for a friend... =A0 Seems like my friends and neighbors found out I wired my own house before... after doing the gate I get to rewire a stove outlet and troubleshoot a shorted circuit... have DVM, will travel. First airplanes, then houses... electrons be electrons I tell ya... A: The only difference is the direction of travel or vibration! (DC vs AC) I rewired the mobile home we lived in, and a dozen or so houses in Canada (Medallion style. I even got an award for having the most balanced panel! My electric bill is only $25 a month is summer!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 23:49:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: getting 20mpg out of my I-6... At 10:57 AM 2/5/00 -0800, Thomas Anhalt wrote: >OK, I think I see John lapsing into what-if-o-mania and >paralysis-by-analysis. engineering... it's in my blood I tell ya. :) time to shoot the engineer and get on with the project, eh? ;) >Here's what you're looking at....your J10, although it is running good, >isn't getting much better gas mileage than a well-tuned 360. The >culprit appears to be the Holley carb which is probably too large for amen. The tailpipe tells the story too... it be black... :( >the engine. First point of order, replace it. If the easiest way of >doing that is to pull off the Clifford manifold and put on a stock >manifold and Carter BBD, so be it. In fact, the Clifford manifold is Ok... pulling the Clifford only requires tracking down a stock one... John B. in MT offered me his old BBD, John, did that come with a manifold? Would I need to hook up all the stepper motor stuff? All that wiring is gone. I had to buy a section of wiring harness to reinstall the stock ignition system, and it didn't come with the bbd stuff... I guess I've heard the BBD will do fine with the stepper motor disconnected, right? John, pop it in the mail and I'll have a check headed your way asap... ;) >probably intended for higher rpms than you like anyway. Of course, if >you don't want to remove the Clifford, then my suggestion would be to My hesitation on removing the manifold is a holdover from V engine fears... not an issue now that I give it a few microseconds of thought... ;) >find a small Quadrajet to put on there. Brad F. on the other FSJ list >would be a good reference to find out what model and also how to tweak >it just right. The great thing about the Q-jet is the really small >primaries. You should be able to find an adapter for that. A Q-jet would be good... I remember Brad... I'm sure he remembers me too... EVERYBODY remembers me... funny how that is... ;) How about the 390 cfm Holley, even though the word Holley is usually described with colorful adjectives by some of my favorite mechanical type friends... imagine the color brown... especially when talking about the power valve thing... >Just a thought, based on the other "hot rod" stuff that was on your 258 >(dual point distributor, Clifford manifold, Holley 4bbl, etc.) do you >think that they might have also swapped the cam to a longer duration >unit? Just a thought. How would I tell? It seems to idle fine... no lope that I can tell. I've done the mild and wild cam before on a V6, I don't notice anything like that on this one... Although Superdawg sure does howl when you really get on him... ;) >So...in order of "most bang for the buck", here's my suggestions for >getting the J10 up to it's proper MPG readings. ( you should be pushing >close to 20 with the t-5): agreed. I would love to see 20 mpg on Superdawg... even if I lost performance. >1. Replace carb with a 2bbl or a 4bbl with small primaries. If that >means swapping off the manifold, just do it. a holley 390 cfm can be had for $375 new... ouch. A used Q-jet could be found in a wrecking yard if someone can get a message to Brad for me and find out what to look for. This might be the easiest to do. Changing manifolds isn't that hard or involved on a straight 6... nothing like a V6/8. I could see if Olympic had one... last I checked with them on carbs wasn't too promising... >2. Install a high output coil (Jacobs makes a cylindrical direct >replacement for the Ford horseshoe connector type coil) and install low >resistance spiral core wires (you may have done this already). Open up >spark gap to at least .045" after these changes. You can also index the >plugs....the indexing washers are very cheap, it just takes a long time >to do the indexing, not difficult, just tedious. Index them so that the >gap points to 11 o'clock as you look at the cylinder head. I have an UltraCoil and Jacobs wires... but I gapped the plugs at .035... I've never played around with indexing, but it's worth a shot. Does NAPA carry the indexing washers? 11 o'clock... let's see, little hand... ;) I'll try that tomorrow... I'll regap to .045 and index... I'm selling the mileagemaster setup... I pulled it off to do the Holley TBI and just decided to leave it off... selling it on ebay... guess I'll use the space where it was for a dual battery setup. :) >3. Install a low restriction air cleaner. I prefer K&N, I know that >you'll use an Amsoil ;-) done. both actually. ;) It came with the cotton guaze thing that costs twice what it should and lets twice the stuff through... and then I fabricated an outer wrap from AMSOIL filter material so I catch the bad stuff before it gets to the K&N. ;) Still breathes nicely. I'll eventually put a real amsoil filter in place, once I've figured out what's gonna live on top of the manifold. It has an Erson chrome air cleaner right now... >4. Install a 2.5" exhaust pipe and low restriction muffler and cat. This thing has the strangest exhaust setup I've ever seen on a straight 6. The guy split off the exhaust just past the collector and has TWO complete exhaust systems running back to the rear... the mufflers seem to be pretty free flowing, although they have a lifetime guarantee... and look pretty stock looking... and there is NO catalytic converters at all... let me tell ya, it was a challenge getting this thing through emissions with a Holley and no cat... ;) I suppose I could replace the two mufflers with a flowmaster designed for a corvette... that way I'd have dual in/dual out but one case... or get two new mufflers... I don't think there is much restriction... the pipes are at least 2" each... >After each of these changes, you'll have to carefully retune, of course. I'll have to have James Blair over again... :) >That's my $.02 >Leave the messing around with 4.0L stuff for later. sounds like good advice to me... changing a manifold makes a lot more sense than yardin' the motor out... I could do this in an evening or a weekend... With the little wagoneer back home I could even prolong the task a bit. You know it would have been very cool if Jeep had continued making the FSJ and then added the XJ technology from the 87 and up models to it... >Later, >Tom 20 mpg is the target... It's feasible, possible and been done before. I went with 31x10.5's, have 3.31 gears... but still might be able to do it. I appreciate the insight and feedback... After driving Superdawg I understand why you are so fond of your Cherokee and the 258... You have probably the nicest Cherokee I've ever seen... well, except maybe Michael Baxters... it's a tossup... I like yours because of the grille and engine, I like Michaels because of the engine and the overall looks... Hey... maybe I need to trade superdawg in for a really clean cherokee, that way I can toss those teenagers in the back and still have my FSJ... widetrac, six cylinder and two doors... ;) thanx, john - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/83stepside/ (Superdawg) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Jx000s/marks-67-J3000/ (son's FSJ) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:40:16 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) At 11:11 PM 2/19/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: Bonsoir Monsieur Mochot! Je suis James Blair et je suis Canadienne. >Le pardon mon Fran=E7ais faible, mais c'a =E9t=E9 des ann=E9es depuis le >lyc=E9e. Nous avons plaisir =E0 conduire notre omnibus marche-arr=EAt de >jeeps et attendons avec int=E9r=EAt d'entendre parler du v=F4tre. You >can get a basic english french translation for your website through >http://www.altavista.com > >John =E9crits: >Bon Jour!=20 >That's about as far as my French goes. :) =A0 I've travelled through showoff... ;) Aber hat ich auf Deutsche schreiben... ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:41:46 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: (sans sujet) (FRENCH Cherokee site) BTW, the image of the red cherokee on the french site is beautiful... I've got my wallpaper set to it... it's really nice... Seems I've seen it somewhere before though... cool either way. john >I give you the address : > http://www.cherokee.fr.st/ >or > http://members.aol.com/cherokeelst/ >The home page is in French but I intend to translate it in English. >Hope to get soon some news from you on my home page ! >Gilbert Mochot >My Jeep: Cherokee XJ Limited 4.0L I-6 year:1989 - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:39:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: xj: Late Night with Aaron Aaron Storms wrote: Since hardly anyone is posting tonight, other than John, I'll pitch in to keep the ball rolling! I like hearing your thoughts on your jeep buildups, so don't worry about rambling on if you can tolerate my windiness as well:) A: OOH!!! Big mistake there! You can ask John, I'll go on for HOURS even if I'm tired! My own rig of choice is FSJ of course, but not because I don't like XJs. They are just a little too small for the stuff I haul around. I plan on using XJ drivetrain in it though! 4.6L stroker with either EFI (if I can kill the ping w/o premium gas or if I can't, I'll sell the HO head I bought from Olympic 4x4) or LPG with a HD built AW4 with 23 spline output (I can build the tranny, but I still haven't gotten a measurement of the trans adapter sleeve from a '95 up from anyone!) I'm going NP208 (which I like and already have) or NV242 HD (Someone at Cherokee America said I can use the gears and chain from the NV249 I have in a NP242 to make it HD AND 23 spline!) I can get NP242s for $150 Canadian last I checked. I have 3.31 axles with 3" spring lift and a rust free '84 GW frame to put everything on before body swapping (I'd LOVE to get one of Willys Overland's NEW 1976 Cherokee 2dr bodies for this!) and my new 255/85R/16 tires (33/10/16) on alloy rims (BTW, I have a set of XJ 5 star alloys with near new 235/75R15 tires on them for $400) I will be coating the whole underside with kevlar resin (to keep out rust, not bullets! and the inside will get Rhino liner type spray on the floors and interior for sound and rust as well as ease of cleaning and waterproofing in case of floods. PS: To get a flood where I live would take a wave higher than the space needle! ) What am I forgetting? Hmmm.. hydroboost brakes (I think Tom A. did his) ARBs? I'll rewire the rig myself and all redundant stuff will be removed, and some super duty stuff added, like winch and jump start plug ins front and rear with covers. Ah yes! Mustn't forget Scotty's bumpers! (Killer32) and winch, and premium water proof sound, on board computer station (OK, now I'm dreaming) I will build my own dash though, and include a wedge tach to fit my dash (It'll be homebuilt. The diagram is on photopoint) I was tempted to put one of my 2 ancient Sun tachs in, but I'll post them for sale instead. The Eagle seats are Okay, but I think I'll work on some hammock style ones like I had in my racing Cortina (lawnchair like design, with perforated leatherette that breathes) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 00:52:51 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Quadratrac Questions... At 12:39 AM 2/20/00 PST, Neil Kapperman wrote: >So far everyone I've had I ended up toasting the adapter between the Th400 >and the Tcase itself... I just happened to find the 360 T18 I have in the >Willy's now by pure luck, otherwise I'd probably still be using the same Qt >case.. They seem to hold up pretty good so far... The adapter is another >story. ;') > >Thanks for forwarding this to the List... >>Neil no problem... the idea of the list is to share info. Since I've not had to get down and dirty with a QT it's best to pass this along so those that have can reply. :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 01:13:28 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: a thanx... At 12:40 AM 2/20/00 PST, Neil Kapperman wrote: > >Thanks again for the info. Please pass my thanks on to your freind too. >Neil you're welcome... :) happy jeepin' john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #741 *************************