From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Feb 20 21:26:04 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, February 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 743 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing fsj: FS: 1968 Jeep Gladiator fsj: Re: getting 20mpg out of my I-6... fsj: Re: FS: 1968 Jeep Gladiator fsj: is the starter supposed to do this?? fsj: FIRST THREE FSJ GALLERIES ARE NOW UP fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes Re: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing fsj: 22" fsj: Re: getting 20mpg out of my I-6... Re: fsj: Re: FS: 1968 Jeep Gladiator fsj: Re: INFO fsj: Re: Re: INFO Re: fsj: Re: Need help...Gonna shoot my Jeep fsj: Rez gets new water pump fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 2v HP/torque fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 13:30:46 PST From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing Went to Napa to ask for indexing washers and the only thing they came up with was a spark plug gapper.... must have been the french accent. The speed shop had them.... but they were speed shop price... do you want to know.... seize dollars en francais! $16.... My qs are, do you keep the original spark plug crush washer or toss it.... and the electrode should be away from the intake? so as not to hide the intake James: your french is excellent, the give away was canadienne.... you are canadien... unless you had some below the belt surgery performed... cheers Michel 74 wag ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 00 16:20:46 -0500 From: Nicholas McIntosh Subject: fsj: FS: 1968 Jeep Gladiator i was checking out the dealer classifides and found this. it looks great. i hope someone can give it a good home. here's the ad as it's written... "68 Jeep Gladiator 4X4 Pickup. Gray, 89k, 5spd, 327 V8, AM-FM Stereo Cass, Look at this Classic truck, Hard to find and rare. First $3995 takes this one away" is is at York County Automotive in Jacobus PA 17407 717-428-2662 i think they're right off I-83 nick 65 comet convertible (finally started) 88 eagle wagon (badly needs an exaust system) 88 grand wagoneer (in the shop with a bad transfercase) baltimore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2000 14:39:04 -0800 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: fsj: Re: getting 20mpg out of my I-6... john wrote: > > Ok... pulling the Clifford only requires tracking down a stock one... > John B. in MT offered me his old BBD, John, did that come with a manifold? > Would I need to hook up all the stepper motor stuff? All that wiring is gone. > I had to buy a section of wiring harness to reinstall the stock ignition > system, and it didn't come with the bbd stuff... I guess I've heard the > BBD will do fine with the stepper motor disconnected, right? John, pop > it in the mail and I'll have a check headed your way asap... ;) > I still have the intake and carb (only ~ 1.5 years of operation on a factory rebuild) that I took off of the Cherokee. Might be a little expensive to ship. It's not that light. Doesn't James have one? BTW, the BBD will work fine with the stepper disconnected, you just won't have it adjusting the A/F during cruise. Not a big loss since the various sensors used to tell it's brain box to go into closed loop mode aren't very reliable....any guesses why I ditched it for FI? > > I have an UltraCoil and Jacobs wires... but I gapped the plugs at .035... > I've never played around with indexing, but it's worth a shot. Does > NAPA carry the indexing washers? 11 o'clock... let's see, little hand... ;) > I'll try that tomorrow... I'll regap to .045 and index... I'm selling > the mileagemaster setup... I pulled it off to do the Holley TBI and just > decided to leave it off... selling it on ebay... guess I'll use the > space where it was for a dual battery setup. :) > I got the washers from Jacobs...I was ordering other stuff as well. All they are is copper washers of various thicknesses...you just try them out until the electrode gap is pointed the right way. I used a little sticker on the plug socket to indicate where the electrode gap was on the plug. > > This thing has the strangest exhaust setup I've ever seen on a straight 6. > The guy split off the exhaust just past the collector and has TWO complete > exhaust systems running back to the rear... the mufflers seem to be pretty > free flowing, although they have a lifetime guarantee... and look pretty > stock looking... and there is NO catalytic converters at all... let me > tell ya, it was a challenge getting this thing through emissions with a > Holley and no cat... ;) I suppose I could replace the two mufflers > with a flowmaster designed for a corvette... that way I'd have dual > in/dual out but one case... or get two new mufflers... I don't think > there is much restriction... the pipes are at least 2" each... > Wow...that is kind of funky. You've got no problems on the exhaust restriction front! > > 20 mpg is the target... It's feasible, possible and been done before. > I went with 31x10.5's, have 3.31 gears... but still might be able to do it. > I appreciate the insight and feedback... > > After driving Superdawg I understand why you are so fond of your Cherokee > and the 258... You have probably the nicest Cherokee I've ever seen... well, > except maybe Michael Baxters... it's a tossup... I like yours because of > the grille and engine, I like Michaels because of the engine and the overall > looks... Hey... maybe I need to trade superdawg in for a really clean > cherokee, > that way I can toss those teenagers in the back and still have my FSJ... > widetrac, > six cylinder and two doors... ;) > Really?....I think your memory might be making it out to be nicer than what it really is. It's not that nice...it just doesn't have any rust. It does need a paint job and the seats could be recovered, though. ttyl, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:45:30 -0700 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: Re: FS: 1968 Jeep Gladiator > "68 Jeep Gladiator 4X4 Pickup. Gray, 89k, 5spd, 327 V8, AM-FM Stereo > Cass, Look at this Classic truck, Hard to find and rare. First $3995 > takes this one away" 5spd??? wonder what it is? I thought there were no Jeep 5spds? methinks it interesting.... if it's still there in a few weeks, I'll take a peek-- gotta go back to work soon... in UT Tacoma 78 Cherokee Chief 67 Kaiser M725 "Gigantor the Heep" icq 5058954 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 16:59:17 -0700 From: "Tacoma White" Subject: fsj: is the starter supposed to do this?? I had the tranny rebuilt a few months ago, and when I got it back, noticed A. a ticking or rattling noise emanating from the area of the flexplate... (not a cracked flexplate, I watched them put the nice new one in, the old one WAS cracked.) and B. a very random grinding coming from the starter, as if it werent' engaging fully.A few tries and it would work right. I finally got some free time to check it out, and this is what I found. Ring gear is fine... a few spots on the forward face looked rubbed but not sure if it's old or not, as I never had reason to look before today...... The starter shows minor wear, but no bad rounding or anything. While I had it out, I checked it's operation, works fine. I did notice that the gear is free to push forward (towards the nose of the vehicle) for some reason. My GM starters do not share this feature. I had my wife come out and start the truck (breaking several safety rules at once hahah-- truck had 2 whls on a curb in case it took off though....) while I was under it and what I found was this: when the starter made this grinding noise, the teeth didn't appear to be touching the ring gear. No amount of shimming or manipulation seemed to remedy this. Also, the gear would move in or out a little and after a second stop spinning entirely-- so it couldn't have been touching the ring gear. so-- new starter and everything is fine, or strange starter and some crazy Jeep trick??? I'm inclined ot say that starter is a little screwy, but I don't really know about Ford..uhmmm I meant Jeep starters. any and all help is appreciated! Thanks in advance. in UT Tacoma 78 Cherokee Chief 67 Kaiser M725 "Gigantor the Heep" 77GMC K20 icq 5058954 AIM yulaodf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:08:08 EST From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: FIRST THREE FSJ GALLERIES ARE NOW UP Several list members have already uploaded photos and information to me over the weekend so I built the templates for four FSJ Galleries. The main page is located at: http://jeepwagoneer.ho mepage.com/Gallery.html The individual galleries are located at: http://jeepwagoneer. homepage.com/Wagoneers.html http://jeepwagoneer.hom epage.com/Cherokees.html http://jeepwagoneer.homep age.com/Pickups.html Since there were no international FSJs, I haven't built the template for the overseas FSJs. In addition, other than my own, I haven't migrated the other Super Wagoneers from the Super Wagoneer Registry to the Wagoneer Gallery. If you're on the Super Wagoneer Registry and want to be added to the Wagoneer listing, drop me a note. If you would like your rig added to one of the pages please e-mail me an exterior and interior JPG, approximately 300 x 200 pixels that is clear and sharp along with the following information: Year of vehicle Owner's Name with e-mail address and homepage URL (if you have one) City and state Vehicle identification number Drive train components Notable features, mileage Length of ownership If you have already had me post your photo but did not include all of the above, please forward to me the information so all the listings are consistent. I hope that everyone gets a kick out of this project as it evolves. My goal is to have a listing for every year in each of the categories. Thanks, Richard Truesdell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:56:18 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes For what it's worth, a thought just struggled its way to the surface [that's the trouble with aging-loss of memory cells;I'm down to one intermittently firing neuron]: way back when, I remember some friends with I-6 pickup trucks who need more "grunt" for hauling/towing chores. Besides a judicious cam change, they went to the Offenhauser 360deg., Two Port intake manifold, with Holley 390cfm 4v carb. Great vacuum signal, strong power up to 4500rpm, and great mileage. For those not familiar, the Offy Two Port divides the runners from the carb primaries and secondaries all the way from the flange to the head. The primary runner is smaller, for better flow velocity and stronger vacuum signal at lower engine rpm, and the secondaries are much larger, for greater flow volume at higher rpm. Not the best manifold for high rpm/max hp, but in the range most of us operate, should do the trick. On the same thread, I wonder if part of my mileage woes might be that I am under geared? My diffs are 2.73:1, and I have 31/10.50 tires. I am only turning 1600 rpm at 55mph, which is not above a fast idle. Wondering if a gear change would help? The current set up is GREAT for freeway cruising, in fact I have turned 17.5mpg at 70mph for flat highway running. But if there are any up-grades, drops to 14.5, and around town and 4-wheeling, it's 6.5. That's been constant since the vehicle was new. Finally, on the differently fueled engine front, from what I seem to be hearing, a good choice rather than a Diesel conversion might be to rebuild my 360 with higher compression [how high?] and convert to propane. Any ideas anyone? my only concern with LPG is that I live in region where it gets so cold that people who depend on LPG for home heating have problems, because the stuff won't vaporize. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:17:41 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing At 01:30 PM 2/20/00 PST, michel balea wrote: >James: your french is excellent, the give away was canadienne.... you are >canadien... unless you had some below the belt surgery performed... huh??? ;) > >cheers >>Michel >74 wag - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:13:09 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: 22" I crawled under Superdawg and measured the T-5 from the bellhousing back to the transfer case... 22". I measured the Aisin Warner 30-80Le... it's 25.5 or 26"... plus or minus... ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:35:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: getting 20mpg out of my I-6... At 02:39 PM 2/5/00 -0800, Thomas Anhalt wrote: >john wrote: >I still have the intake and carb (only ~ 1.5 years of operation on a >factory rebuild) that I took off of the Cherokee. Might be a little >expensive to ship. It's not that light. Doesn't James have one? BTW, >the BBD will work fine with the stepper disconnected, you just won't >have it adjusting the A/F during cruise. Not a big loss since the >various sensors used to tell it's brain box to go into closed loop mode >aren't very reliable....any guesses why I ditched it for FI? I'll have to wait till Tuesday to see if Olympic has the manifold... I'm not sure of the condition of John B's carb... Waiting to hear from him too I guess... :) I'd be interested in your carb... Shoot, if I'd decided to go for the stock manifold before I could have kept that TBI setup... Guess I was concerned about it... some of the feedback I had on that type of system wasn't really positive... :) >I got the washers from Jacobs...I was ordering other stuff as well. All >they are is copper washers of various thicknesses...you just try them >out until the electrode gap is pointed the right way. I used a little >sticker on the plug socket to indicate where the electrode gap was on >the plug. that's a good idea... the mark that is... > >Wow...that is kind of funky. You've got no problems on the exhaust >restriction front! yeah, old Superdawg really knows how to howl... ;) I got on it in Bellevue and my wife was really embarrassed... :) (bellevue is kind of a snooty place in places... lots of lexus and benz and beemers... ) >Really?....I think your memory might be making it out to be nicer than >what it really is. It's not that nice...it just doesn't have any rust. >It does need a paint job and the seats could be recovered, though. >ttyl, >Tom I look past things like paint. NO rust is important, seats are replaceable. Your grille is cool and the basic shape and ride is nice... it's straight... in short, it's nice. :) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:38:12 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FS: 1968 Jeep Gladiator At 04:45 PM 2/20/00 -0700, Tacoma White wrote: > 5spd??? wonder what it is? I thought there were no Jeep 5spds? methinks it What??? Maybe not in the 60's vintage... maybe not in the 70's vintage... but Superdawg has one... (he's an 83, same age as my son... ) They had 'em in the bobtails too... and I had one in my 85 XJ. john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:15:45 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: INFO I've got a True Trac in the front of my 88 xj wagoneer. It works very well, I don't notice it's even there. However, when I get bogged down in mud or something all I need to do is lightly touch the brakes and then both wheels pull... it's really pretty cool. I think you'll be happy with it in the front. I had a Detroit Locker in the rear, loved it on the trail, hated it on the road... went back to the factory limited slip in the rear... it's ok... Would like to have a True Trac in the rear too. :) john At 12:35 PM 2/20/00 -0500, Arsenios Arvanitakis wrote: >Hi, >I have a 85 XJ with a beefed up 4.3 liter chevy engine.I was thinking >about putting a, >True Tracs differential in the front.In the rear I have the lock right >power tracs >unit.I live in Canada and there is a lot of snow and ice in the >winter.How would >the Detroit True Tracs work in the front, on snow and ice covered roads >driving at about >40 miles an hour.I have a catalog they describe that its fully automatic >and it >will work great on the road as well as off.If you have any experience >with this unit >please let me know. > > >Thank You. > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:01:48 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: INFO Love that True Trac! That's why I have a Dana 44 [which they make True Trac for] to put in the back of my Wagoneer, to replace the AMC 20 [which they don't] . kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Cc: ; Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2000 21:15 Subject: fsj: Re: INFO > > I've got a True Trac in the front of my 88 xj wagoneer. It works > very well, I don't notice it's even there. However, when I get > bogged down in mud or something all I need to do is lightly touch > the brakes and then both wheels pull... it's really pretty cool. > > I think you'll be happy with it in the front. > > I had a Detroit Locker in the rear, loved it on the trail, hated > it on the road... went back to the factory limited slip in the rear... > it's ok... Would like to have a True Trac in the rear too. :) > > john > > At 12:35 PM 2/20/00 -0500, Arsenios Arvanitakis wrote: > >Hi, > >I have a 85 XJ with a beefed up 4.3 liter chevy engine.I was thinking > >about putting a, > >True Tracs differential in the front.In the rear I have the lock right > >power tracs > >unit.I live in Canada and there is a lot of snow and ice in the > >winter.How would > >the Detroit True Tracs work in the front, on snow and ice covered roads > >driving at about > >40 miles an hour.I have a catalog they describe that its fully automatic > >and it > >will work great on the road as well as off.If you have any experience > >with this unit > >please let me know. > > > > > >Thank You. > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:04:12 EST From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Need help...Gonna shoot my Jeep Rob: I'm no electrician myself but John's right, take it from someone who has had to track these circuits back to the tailgate as well, there is a lot of juice going back there - full time juice. My connectors were rotted and had to be replaced. It's really pretty simple once you put your mind to it. A wiring diagram helps alot. - --Vince '81 Wag (in process) In a message dated 2/18/00 7:18:46 PM Central Standard Time, john-at-wagoneers.com writes: > At 08:12 PM 2/18/00 EST, RKH911-at-aol.com wrote: > >Thanks John, I dunno that I wanna handle this job so will try and take her > to > >an auto electrician. > > > >Rob > > that can't be cheap... we're not talking about handling live electrons > here, we're talking about taking a 59 cent roll of black electrical tape > and wrapping wiring so it's not flailing about loose or rubbing on stuff. > That and pushing connectors together... maybe taking them off and squirting > AMSOIL MP or an electrical contact cleaner in there and reconnecting them. > That and tightening down connections to ground and such.... > > it really requires little or no skill... > > john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:04:11 EST From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Rez gets new water pump Well, I posted a message about a week ago about Rez's water pump shaft "flexing" when I tightened the alternator belts. So I spent the better part of today replacing it. Guess what? It had been scrapeing slightly into the timing cover! Also, noticed right away that one of the nuts holding the fan clutch on was missing, others were loose. Also, put a new 195 degree thermostat back in - didn't like the 180 - ran too cold it seemed. The fan clutch was kinda greasy and I'd been told that this is a sure sign of wear so I replaced it as well. Rez never cooled so good. Of course anyone who has ever changed water pumps knows that you have to practically dismantel the front of the engine (alternator brackets, PS bracket, air if you have it). I take my time on these jobs besides, I'm taking the Rez on a 7 hour drive back to point of purchase 2 years ago.........and back hopefully. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer (Rez Runner) 360, tf727, np219, new brakes, new alternator X2, new starter, new battery and cables, new water pump and fan clutch, new tires! Next, new engine, paint, and seats! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 00:18:58 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: 84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 2v HP/torque So does the skirt keep the piston straight in the bore by acting as a counter balance or through actual contact with the cylinder? Seems like that kind of contact would be a bad thing. That must be why the bore is more scuffed on the passenger side. I guess I answered my own question. Doesn't seem like a very elegant solution. Ben In a message dated 2/19/2000 11:12:05 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:45:40 -0500 > From: Michael Baxter (snip) > But unfortunately side loads are imparted on the piston because of the > direction of rotation of the crankshaft and the dynamic rod geometry. The= > > skirt's job is to keep the side loads from rocking the piston to one side= > > in the bore and causing the ring package to break/reduce their seal. The > thrust side of the cylinder walls of our engines are the side walls towar= > d > the passenger side of the engine. Next you get the chance to look down th= > e > bores of a bare block, look at all the walls toward the passenger side an= > d > you'll see more scuffing and wear. That's also the side which needs to ha= > ve > the thickest cylinder walls as a result. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 05:30:54 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) Thanks for all the suggestions re: my battery draining from a short somewhere on my '78 Cherokee. Here's how your advice shook out: Internal Battery Short- No Faulty Alternator Rebuild- No Burnt Wires- No (BTDT already this year) tailgate window switch- BINGO! There was continuity through the switch, which I could break by jiggling the key, so I just disconnected the under-body harness connector and I'll take care of it once the weather warms up. I was also measuring continuity to ground through the starter cable with the ignition off, which I thought might be a problem (it isn't; there normally is continuity from the starter (+) terminal to ground). I pulled the starter apart, found some fraying wires, so invested the $30 in a rebuilt unit that cranks the engine much faster than the original (the one on the truck still had remnants of an AMC sticker). OK, now who wants to take bets on the next thing that will break on Scary? ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #743 *************************