From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Feb 21 19:32:59 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, February 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 744 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) Re: fsj: T5 length... fsj: Another fun trip to BC Re: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) Re: fsj: Re: Re: INFO Re: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing Re: fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes Re: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) (My half ass temp fix) Re: fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes Re: fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes Re: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing fsj: Re: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes fsj: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:31:09 -0600 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 22:50:03 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) Won't bet what will break ON Scary, but I will bet on what Scary will break next: the bank! kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Barry" To: Sent: Sunday, 20 February, 2000 22:30 Subject: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) > Thanks for all the suggestions re: my battery draining from a short > somewhere on my '78 Cherokee. Here's how your advice shook out: > > Internal Battery Short- No > Faulty Alternator Rebuild- No > Burnt Wires- No (BTDT already this year) > tailgate window switch- BINGO! > > There was continuity through the switch, which I could break by jiggling the > key, so I just disconnected the under-body harness connector and I'll take > care of it once the weather warms up. > > I was also measuring continuity to ground through the starter cable with the > ignition off, which I thought might be a problem (it isn't; there normally > is continuity from the starter (+) terminal to ground). I pulled the starter > apart, found some fraying wires, so invested the $30 in a rebuilt unit that > cranks the engine much faster than the original (the one on the truck still > had remnants of an AMC sticker). > > OK, now who wants to take bets on the next thing that will break on Scary? > ________________________________________________ > Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu > http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 21:56:34 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: T5 length... At 10:17 PM 2/18/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: Did you measure how long your T5 is yet? 22" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 03:42:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Another fun trip to BC I was late getting out of Seattle because I sold my 22' travel trailer just before I left, and then rushed up to BC to try and catch up with someone wanting parts. (I figured I'd be early enough to catch John M on the way back WRONG! Murphy caught a ride with me!) I had my cell phone with me, and it's the kind that if you call, I have caller ID and messaging, but I forgot my phone list. I was driving my buddy's '79 Lincoln that had been sitting 2 years (to get the last of the raunchy old gas out so I could take it to emission testing tuesday) and 1/2 way there, the headlight relay, headlight switch and high/low beam switch on the floor (as well as the goofy oncoming traffic sensor that kept flicking the lights on and off, hi and low) went kaflooey on me on the way up. It nearly killed my battery from Elmo as well as start a carbeque! I caught it before any major damage occured, by yanking the wires off the dimmer switch, because the headlight switch was too hot to touch. The lights were so dim, I was scared it wouldn't start again, so I chanced leaving it running till I made sure all was okay. I finally got the lights hotwired in Al's Auto parts parking lot in Bellingham by 7PM (I left home at 3:15 and would have been in BC by 5), but I knew was going to be way too late to make the meeting up north. I sent an email before I left to explain I would be late, so hopefully he didn't drive to Aldergrove for nothing. I had a short visit with my parents (It was kind of late) and then dropped my son off in Mission at the ex's (I even gave her one of the $1.87 Al's Motobrellas I bought at Al's closeout sale). Then I went back across the border in Sumas, and headed west to Lynden and got on the Guide Meridian. {REMEMBER: watch out for this set up!} I was 1/2 way to Bellingham, when I saw a police cruiser on my right, parked just before the intersection on the side road with his lights off. As I entered the intersection at the posted 50 mph limit in the light rain, he floored it 1/2 way into my lane, forcing me to swerve around him (or nail him, but since it's not my car, I intuitively swerved around him the best I could) The car that was following me was also forced over. (I could see them side by side in my rearview mirror, and I thought there was going to be a collision), but the officer swung around the corner on the shoulder of the highway, and then pulled out behind the other car and hit his lights. The car behind me went to the shoulder, and the officer roared up behind me and I pulled over, expecting him to go by (since I hadn't done anything wrong) and I was a little surprised when he pulled in behind me (yeah right! Glad it wasn't a green car!), but I dutifully pulled out my license and insurance and handed it to him. I didn't really pay attention at the time, but he called me by name before asking for my license. Since it's not my car I have to assume the border patrol gave him that info and radioed him about the expired tabs. He then walked to the back of the car and noted the 2 year expired tabs, then looked at the 3 day permit I had in the back window (just freshly attached before I left, to avoid this kind of situation, but I figured he had to check it out) and muttered S#!T! and went back to his cruiser. I smiled and thought "HA HA" (Nasty kid on Simpsons impression) Only 1 minor problem. It's end of the month quota time! :^( First we did the sobriety thing which is easy to pass, since last drink I had was New Year's day with my wife. (BTW, HIS eyes were extremely dilated and he smelled of smoke but since I'm not an expert, I can't say for certain it was the illicit kind) All lights, tires, etc checked out (he mentioned the high beam indicator light on the dash was on, and I explained it's stuck) because I ensured they were working before I left home. So what does he come up with? Crossing the center line! Which I did so I didn't have to mash his cruiser with 2 FSJs worth of Detroit iron that didn't belong to me! Either way, they have you for crossing the centerline, or hitting the cruiser, which I'm pretty sure is classic entrapment! (He also claimed that an off duty officer had called my plate # in as a vehicle that had run him off the highway into the ditch and I said "If he went in the ditch, then how did he get my plate #?) That Lincoln is so much bigger than Elmo, and since it was my first time driving it (I haven't driven a limo since the '80s) and my vision isn't so great on the right, I had to cross the centerline (barely over the cat's eyes) to ensure I didn't hit him (Elmo would have been hard pressed to get through that gap w/o crossing the line, but I would have been able to stop before hitting him on the wet road, unlike the landyacht Lincoln and I'd have the whole thing on my video camera as proof!) I sure hope he has video on board that cruiser! It'll be real fun for him to explain in court why he pulled into the middle of the intersection, stopped w/o ANY lights! I just shrugged it off as another ploy to get my hard earned money (won't they be surprised! ) and proceeded home, arriving about an hour ago. (I stopped at a few places to try and find a carwash with brushes to get the GREEN moss of this car, but they have all gone brushless, except Capn Dizzy's in Marysville, which was closed.) I remembered to bring my cellphone, but not my phonebook (it was still sitting on the coffee table where I put it while swapping coats in a hurry) so I couldn't call anyone on the way. But now, I guess it's time to jump in the tub and wash off the filth I picked up along the way today. (in more ways than one!) I hope AAA auto parts is open in the AM, so I can go get the flexplate for the '75 C#-at-v 292T motor. The 350 V8 one has too small of flange bolt holes and I think the balance may be different as well. Just another day in the life of! 8^x ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:02:49 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) A: Wind! Bob Barry wrote: OK, now who wants to take bets on the next thing that will break on Scary? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: INFO A: Just because your local shops don't have it, doesn't mean they don't make it! (Too many CJs and Hummers running around as well as AMCs and FSJs with the Model 20!) Kim wrote: Love that True Trac! That's why I have a Dana 44 [which they make True Trac for] to put in the back of my Wagoneer, to replace the AMC 20 [which they don't] . kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:30:34 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing A: He means it's the feminine version, but in Canada, they butcher that stuff up all the time, and call it Franglais! Even the stamps have it that way! At 01:30 PM 2/20/00 PST, michel balea wrote: James: your french is excellent, the give away was canadienne.... you are canadien... unless you had some below the belt surgery performed... huh??? ;) cheers Michel 74 wag ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 04:43:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes >Kim wrote: For what it's worth, a thought just struggled its way to the surface [that's the trouble with aging-loss of memory cells;I'm down to one intermittently firing neuron]: A: Try dropping a car on your head! >(snip) On the same thread, I wonder if part of my mileage woes might be that I am under geared? My diffs are 2.73:1, and I have 31/10.50 tires. I am only turning 1600 rpm at 55mph, which is not above a fast idle. Wondering if a gear change would help? The current set up is GREAT for freeway cruising, in fact I have turned 17.5mpg at 70mph for flat highway running. A: My jeep does the same, now that I went to steel rims and 30" tires (from 28.8) Do you live near Seattle? I have a pair of stock '84 GW 3.31 axles (open carrier) with 80 K on them for $500 (new pinion seal in the rear one, because my son wire wheeled away part of it during prepaint) and a pair of Wide Track D44s, that are locked front and rear with new gears and bearings and rebuilt posi units for $1000 (done by Randy's ring and Pinion) I need to sell one or the other to catch up on some bills. (whichever is leftover goes in Elmo during upgrade) >(snip) Finally, on the differently fueled engine front, from what I seem to be hearing, a good choice rather than a Diesel conversion might be to rebuild my 360 with higher compression [how high?] and convert to propane. Any ideas anyone? my only concern with LPG is that I live in region where it gets so cold that people who depend on LPG for home heating have problems, because the stuff won't vaporize. A: That's why they have rad water going through the regulator! If you're in REALLY cold climes (Like I was at 40 below in Calgary) you can put a 12V electric blanket around the tank or have an extra vent from your heater blowing on it through the floor. (I rode a bus that was set so rich and overfilled that the regulator froze up in 101F! There was ice on the lines when we got out.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:26:28 EST From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes In a message dated 2/20/00 9:36:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, Kim Smith wrote about: > the Offenhauser 360deg., Two Port intake manifold, with Holley 390cfm 4v carb. > Great vacuum signal, strong power up to 4500rpm, and great mileage. That's the set-up I had on the 225 V-6 in my Willys MB. With the Crane "Gripper" cam and lifters, headers, electronic ignition, etcetera, it pulled *very* strongly from idle to 5500rpm. My friend here in Las Vegas called that Jeep, "Ralph Nader's worst nightmare". > Not the best manifold for high rpm/max hp The best manifold for maximizing horsepower will usually be a ram design of some kind (like the cross-ram on my AMX), but they tend to throw low-end torque out the window; not what you want in a Jeep! ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ under rainclouds in Las Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:35:42 EST From: OrigamiTB-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes In a message dated 2/20/00 9:36:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, Kim Smith wrote: > I wonder if part of my mileage woes might be that I am under geared? > My diffs are 2.73:1, and I have 31/10.50 tires. I am only turning 1600 rpm > at 55mph, which is not above a fast idle. Wondering if a gear change > would help? A really low-rpm RV cam might help more, and it would be a lot cheaper to try. ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ flooding in Las Vegas ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:04:54 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Dillon Subject: Re: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) (My half ass temp fix) Hi Bob, I beleive mine is/was doing the same thing, how I put off the repair untill spring is, I removed one of the 30-amp breakers that puts power to the window all the time. The other one I beleive has power switched by the ignition feed. This way I can still use the window from the dash switch, with the ignition on untill I get time to open up the tail gate. Mike D. - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 05:30:54 GMT From: Robert Barry Subject: fsj: Electron Drain Solved (sigh...) Thanks for all the suggestions re: my battery draining from a short somewhere on my '78 Cherokee. Here's how your advice shook out: Internal Battery Short- No Faulty Alternator Rebuild- No Burnt Wires- No (BTDT already this year) tailgate window switch- BINGO! There was continuity through the switch, which I could break by jiggling the key, so I just disconnected the under-body harness connector and I'll take care of it once the weather warms up. I was also measuring continuity to ground through the starter cable with the ignition off, which I thought might be a problem (it isn't; there normally is continuity from the starter (+) terminal to ground). I pulled the starter apart, found some fraying wires, so invested the $30 in a rebuilt unit that cranks the engine much faster than the original (the one on the truck still had remnants of an AMC sticker). OK, now who wants to take bets on the next thing that will break on Scary? ________________________________________________ Bob Barry MailTo:RBarry-at-Providence.Edu http://studentweb.providence.edu/~rbarry/wheels/ - ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #743 ************************* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:08:27 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: Re: fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes 1.Been there, done that! Saved by my triple thick skull [it really is!]. 2. I live two states over, in Dire Poverty, MT. The Dana 44 on the ground has 3.54:1 gears, so I'll match the front to it. 3.I doo live in that kind of climate!. So in addition to a block heater, add a tank warmer? BTW who is a good source for the parts for a propane conversion? kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Blair" To: "Kim Smith" ; Sent: Monday, 21 February, 2000 05:43 Subject: Re: fsj: I-6 /V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes > >Kim wrote: > For what it's worth, a thought just struggled its way to the surface > [that's the trouble with aging-loss of memory cells;I'm down to one > intermittently firing neuron]: > > A: Try dropping a car on your head! > > >(snip) > On the same thread, I wonder if part of my mileage woes might be that I > am under geared? My diffs are 2.73:1, and I have 31/10.50 tires. I am > only turning 1600 rpm at 55mph, which is not above a fast idle. > Wondering if a gear change would help? The current set up is GREAT for > freeway cruising, in fact I have turned 17.5mpg at 70mph for flat > highway running. > > A: My jeep does the same, now that I went to steel rims and 30" tires > (from 28.8) Do you live near Seattle? I have a pair of stock '84 GW 3.31 > axles (open carrier) with 80 K on them for $500 (new pinion seal in the > rear one, because my son wire wheeled away part of it during prepaint) > and a pair of Wide Track D44s, that are locked front and rear with new > gears and bearings and rebuilt posi units for $1000 (done by Randy's > ring and Pinion) I need to sell one or the other to catch up on some > bills. (whichever is leftover goes in Elmo during upgrade) > > >(snip) > Finally, on the differently fueled engine front, from what I seem to be > hearing, a good choice rather than a Diesel conversion might be to > rebuild my 360 with higher compression [how high?] and convert to > propane. Any ideas anyone? my only concern with LPG is that I live in > region where it gets so cold that people who depend on LPG for home > heating have problems, because the stuff won't vaporize. > > A: That's why they have rad water going through the regulator! If you're > in REALLY cold climes (Like I was at 40 below in Calgary) you can put a > 12V electric blanket around the tank or have an extra vent from your > heater blowing on it through the floor. (I rode a bus that was set so > rich and overfilled that the regulator froze up in 101F! There was ice > on the lines when we got out.) > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > ================================= > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 09:58:19 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes would the offenhauser setup get better mileage than stock? low end torque would be nice, but if I can drive around a lack of power... the point is I want to be driving it... if it gets 20mpg my wife will be happy... after all, my benz only got 23 to 26mpg... ;) john At 11:26 AM 2/21/00 EST, OrigamiTB-at-aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 2/20/00 9:36:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, Kim Smith > wrote about: > >> the Offenhauser 360deg., Two Port intake manifold, with Holley 390cfm 4v >carb. >> Great vacuum signal, strong power up to 4500rpm, and great mileage. > >That's the set-up I had on the 225 V-6 in my Willys MB. With the Crane >"Gripper" cam and lifters, headers, electronic ignition, etcetera, it pulled >*very* strongly from idle to 5500rpm. My friend here in Las Vegas called that >Jeep, "Ralph Nader's worst nightmare". > >> Not the best manifold for high rpm/max hp > >The best manifold for maximizing horsepower will usually be a ram design of >some kind (like the cross-ram on my AMX), but they tend to throw low-end >torque out the window; not what you want in a Jeep! > >++ Cornel Ormsby ++ >under rainclouds in Las Vegas > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:13:46 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 20 mpg and indexing I kind of figured it was something like that. ;) I love German. They assign genders to some of the strangest things... they have three "labels"... die, der and das. die - feminine der - masculine das - neuter What gets funny is the way they use it. boy is neuter, streetcars are feminine, and the list goes on and on... ;) john At 04:30 AM 2/21/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: He means it's the feminine version, but in Canada, they butcher that >stuff up all the time, and call it Franglais! Even the stamps have it >that way! > >At 01:30 PM 2/20/00 PST, michel balea wrote: >James: your french is excellent, the give away was canadienne.... you >are >canadien... unless you had some below the belt surgery performed... >huh??? ;) >cheers >Michel >74 wag > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false >================================= > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:16:34 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes Offy makes another I-6 4v manifold, but it is single port, and is not so good for mileage/low rpm grunt. The other advantage with the Two port esp. in our non-crossflow I-6's is that the secondary mixture is isolated from the exhaust heat by the primary runners, so you get a nice, cold, dense charge when you step on it. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, 21 February, 2000 09:26 Subject: fsj: Re: I-6/V-8 Induction systems/mileage woes > In a message dated 2/20/00 9:36:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, Kim Smith > wrote about: > > > the Offenhauser 360deg., Two Port intake manifold, with Holley 390cfm 4v > carb. > > Great vacuum signal, strong power up to 4500rpm, and great mileage. > > That's the set-up I had on the 225 V-6 in my Willys MB. With the Crane > "Gripper" cam and lifters, headers, electronic ignition, etcetera, it pulled > *very* strongly from idle to 5500rpm. My friend here in Las Vegas called that > Jeep, "Ralph Nader's worst nightmare". > > > Not the best manifold for high rpm/max hp > > The best manifold for maximizing horsepower will usually be a ram design of > some kind (like the cross-ram on my AMX), but they tend to throw low-end > torque out the window; not what you want in a Jeep! > > ++ Cornel Ormsby ++ > under rainclouds in Las Vegas > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:38:29 -0500 From: "TLynn" Subject: fsj: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:31:09 -0600 Ok great list....I'm using all new MSD stuff and my new pluges got alot ofgreyish/black build up(carbon?)...the gap was at 35 so I went up to 45...does this sound right? Tim Lynn "ToolMan-JeepBum" "It's a Jeep Thing" ICQ 21916084 75' J-10(in restoration-unnamed) 96' XJ(Skinny) 74' Wag(parts) 77' J-10(Bull-Dawg) 401/TH400, QT, 4" lift, MSD6T & billet dist., 32x11.5 AT's, tlynn-at-sheltonbbs.com

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