From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Feb 27 21:59:34 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, February 27 2000 Volume 01 : Number 750 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: for the v8 lovers fsj: Re: for the v8 lovers fsj: Re: Re: for the v8 lovers fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) fsj: NP229 input gear Re: fsj: NP229 input gear Re: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out Re: fsj: NP229 input gear Re: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out Re: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:41:15 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: for the v8 lovers http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=268927176 - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:50:31 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: for the v8 lovers I disagree... 1) he said he had it in his 86 GW. 2) he said it had a carb 3) his kid wanted to put it in another jeep... john At 12:38 AM 2/27/00 -0600, TLynn wrote: >I think that is the Chryco 360 and not the AMC....what a shame...that would >be way cool. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 00:41 >Subject: fsj: for the v8 lovers > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=268927176 >----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >----------------------------------------------------- > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:59:37 -0600 From: "TLynn" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: for the v8 lovers I went back...I guess my gut was telling me it wasn't so but you are right. I haven't dealt with any 80's AMC products..just the 70's. I had heard of some one trying to do a dual turbo setup on a 360 from the amx list but I had not heard of one being completed....sounds like a deal and a half. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "TLynn" Cc: Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 00:50 Subject: fsj: Re: for the v8 lovers I disagree... 1) he said he had it in his 86 GW. 2) he said it had a carb 3) his kid wanted to put it in another jeep... john At 12:38 AM 2/27/00 -0600, TLynn wrote: >I think that is the Chryco 360 and not the AMC....what a shame...that would >be way cool. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: >Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 00:41 >Subject: fsj: for the v8 lovers > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=268927176 >----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >----------------------------------------------------- > > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 09:32:19 PST From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out You have it right James, Do you remember how the Columbia shuttle went down.... $1.00 O-ring, may be they are $10 for the shuttle! Just like the failing diodes on alternators.... noone will sell you just the diode.... Michel 74 wag ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:52:08 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out you can roll your own if so inclined. :) you could figure out the power diode needed and attach it to the case externally... The problem with moving stuff like that is the RFI problem. Keeping things as designed usually eliminates interference problems. john At 09:32 AM 2/27/00 PST, michel balea wrote: >You have it right James, > >Do you remember how the Columbia shuttle went down.... $1.00 O-ring, may be >they are $10 for the shuttle! > >Just like the failing diodes on alternators.... noone will sell you just the >diode.... > >Michel >74 wag >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:23:16 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) At 06:32 PM 2/27/00 -0500, Kriz wrote: >I have a friend that has a low mileage 300D, non turbo. I don't know if >it's available or not or how to make it fit but what's your opinion of that >in a J10. Is there someway to adapt the bell housing to the jeep. I've >been on the diesel list for some time. Enjoy the reading even though it has >become somewhat overwhelming. I know of a 240D engine equipped with a volvo turbo running around in Sweden in a Cherokee. :) (full size). I'd say the 3.0L 5 cylinder Diesel would work ok in a J10 if you didn't expect to haul anything or do any stop light drags. The 300D weighed in around 3,500 lbs or so and did 0 to 60 in 19 to 20+ seconds. The J10 with a 4.2L gas engine will do the same drill in about 15 to 18 seconds. My J10 with the short wheelbase stepside, 4.2L/T-5/NP208 weighs in around 4,100 lbs. The additional 600 lbs would definetly put a strain on the Diesel, but not beyond practicality. I'd have to sit down and map the power band, hp, torque and rpm ranges in both vehicles to see if it would work. My J10 has 3.31 gears, some of the J10's I've seen have 2.72. Gearing can be modified with tires to some extent... however, bigger tires suck more power. I know, I just went from 235's to 31x10.5's on Superdawg and have noted a decrease in power... it was about a 6% increase in tire size, power dropped off where I'm dropping down a gear earlier than I would have before. Mileage is only slightly affected as far as I can tell at this point. I would certainly be interested in the conversion as I love my J10 and love Diesels... :) I think that a 6.2L or 6.5L Chevy Diesel would be a better candidate... I'd use a 700r4 for the conversion and try to mate my existing NP208 to it... Making an adapter to mate a tranny to an engine is not terribly involved. Any machinist should be able to assist. The trick is figuring out which flex plate or flywheel to use to mate up. I'd guess I'd use the flex plate from the benz, add in an Aisin Warner automatic (4spd overdrive) and just make a sheet metal bezel to make sure that engine and tranny were connected. Or maybe find an old 240D flywheel and try to use my existing T-5... I dunno... so many options, so little money and time... It's great to dream, to plan and to analyze... There is always an "I gotcha" somewhere in the scheme. The "I gotcha" typically costs about $495, plus another $100 labor to have it installed by a transmission specialist... ;) Of course that was back in 1989 and it may cost more now. It's all possible... just get all the pieces together and see if they'll fit before you start disassembling a running vehicle. Use a multiplying factor of at least 2.5 to your worst case time estimates. My last major conversion took about 7 or 8 months to complete instead of the 1 month I initially planned. :) Worked out ok, and even saw the rig a few weeks ago running around, so I know it was a good swap (gas engine setup, boring). :) ahh... Dreaming about a Diesel powered FSJ again... maybe someday... IN the meantime I'm enjoying my six cylinder Jeeps. Hey, I read about a new Korean 4x4 that uses the Mercedes 3.2L gas engine, priced at less than 20K too! Korando??? or something like that. Looks pretty cool... It's similar to a Cj7 from what I can tell, with a hard top. MB reliability at an affordable price... hmmm... ;) Too bad it ain't a Diesel... I sure wish the ML series came with the Diesel... I could live with the mini-van looks, poor off-road ability and the price tag... ;) later, dieseljohn - ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com/83stepside/ (Superdawg) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Jx000s/marks-67-J3000/ (son's FSJ) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 17:43:10 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: NP229 input gear Anyone got any extra input gear for a 21 spline NP229 laying around? I've found an NP229 and an NP219 and am wondering if the 21 spline input gear from an XJ's NP229 would work in an old 23 spline NP219 or NP229. The only problem with an NP229 is the lack of a 4wd high lock... Using the 229 with Hubs makes good sense, I'll have 2wd and 4wd... AND, if I can find a 21 spline input gear for the NP229, I can mate it up to my Aisin Warner and use my 4.0L setup!!! :) (btw, the np229 even comes with a J10 driveshaft!) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:42:04 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: NP229 input gear A: Some of the XJ NP229s are 23 spline too (I just got one from an '85 for parts) The NP219 input shaft may swap with the NP229 (they use the same chain and viscous coupler according to Brad IIRC). You will definitely want your hubs locked with a NP229 if you go into 4Hi gear! Or else KABLOOEY VC! (Which is what happened to the one I have for parts now!) John wrote: Anyone got any extra input gear for a 21 spline NP229 laying around? I've found an NP229 and an NP219 and am wondering if the 21 spline input gear from an XJ's NP229 would work in an old 23 spline NP219 or NP229. The only problem with an NP229 is the lack of a 4wd high lock... Using the 229 with Hubs makes good sense, I'll have 2wd and 4wd... AND, if I can find a 21 spline input gear for the NP229, I can mate it up to my Aisin Warner and use my 4.0L setup!!! =A0 :) (btw, the np229 even comes with a J10 driveshaft!) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:02:20 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) A: You'll have to forward this over to the Benz list, since I'm not on it. What size tires are on the 300D, and what gear ratio (I figured out how to reverse calc with 4lo.com's gearing/tire size calculator) It would definitely be an advantage to have a turbo on it! What tranny do they run too? Does advance adapters make a Mercedes/ Dodge conversion kit? (at least to the tranny) On the Chev conversion, a Chev NP208 would be a better swap! I heard the Korando is a ripoff of the Commando! (Chinese version) At 06:32 PM 2/27/00 -0500, Kriz wrote: I have a friend that has a low mileage 300D, non turbo. I don't know if it's available or not or how to make it fit but what's your opinion of that in a J10. Is there someway to adapt the bell housing to the jeep. I've been on the diesel list for some time. Enjoy the reading even though it has become somewhat overwhelming. I know of a 240D engine equipped with a volvo turbo running around in Sweden in a Cherokee. :) (full size). I'd say the 3.0L 5 cylinder Diesel would work ok in a J10 if you didn't expect to haul anything or do any stop light drags. The 300D weighed in around 3,500 lbs or so and did 0 to 60 in 19 to 20+ seconds. The J10 with a 4.2L gas engine will do the same drill in about 15 to 18 seconds. My J10 with the short wheelbase stepside, 4.2L/T-5/NP208 weighs in around 4,100 lbs. The additional 600 lbs would definetly put a strain on the Diesel, but not beyond practicality. =A0 I'd have to sit down and map the power band, hp, torque and rpm ranges in both vehicles to see if it would work. My J10 has 3.31 gears, some of the J10's I've seen have 2.72. Gearing can be modified with tires to some extent... however, bigger tires suck more power. I know, I just went from 235's to 31x10.5's on Superdawg and have noted a decrease in power... it was about a 6% increase in tire size, power dropped off where I'm dropping down a gear earlier than I would have before. Mileage is only slightly affected as far as I can tell at this point. I would certainly be interested in the conversion as I love my J10 and love Diesels... :) I think that a 6.2L or 6.5L Chevy Diesel would be a better candidate... I'd use a 700r4 for the conversion and try to mate my existing NP208 to it... Making an adapter to mate a tranny to an engine is not terribly involved. Any machinist should be able to assist. The trick is figuring out which flex plate or flywheel to use to mate up. =A0 I'd guess I'd use the flex plate from the benz, add in an Aisin Warner automatic (4spd overdrive) and just make a sheet metal bezel to make sure that engine and tranny were connected. Or maybe find an old 240D flywheel and try to use my existing T-5... I dunno... so many options, so little money and time... It's great to dream, to plan and to analyze... There is always an "I gotcha" somewhere in the scheme. The "I gotcha" typically costs about $495, plus another $100 labor to have it installed by a transmission specialist... ;) =A0 Of course that was back in 1989 and it may cost more now. It's all possible... just get all the pieces together and see if they'll fit before you start disassembling a running vehicle. Use a multiplying factor of at least 2.5 to your worst case time estimates. My last major conversion took about 7 or 8 months to complete instead of the 1 month I initially planned. :) Worked out ok, and even saw the rig a few weeks ago running around, so I know it was a good swap (gas engine setup, boring). :) ahh... Dreaming about a Diesel powered FSJ again... maybe someday... IN the meantime I'm enjoying my six cylinder Jeeps. Hey, I read about a new Korean 4x4 that uses the Mercedes 3.2L gas engine, priced at less than 20K too! =A0 Korando??? or something like that. Looks pretty cool... It's similar to a Cj7 from what I can tell, with a hard top. MB reliability at an affordable price... hmmm... ;) Too bad it ain't a Diesel... =A0 I sure wish the ML series came with the Diesel... I could live with the mini-van looks, poor off-road ability and the price tag... ;) later, dieseljohn ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:09:22 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out At 05:58 PM 2/27/00 PST, michel balea wrote: >My son's honda alternator... few diodes went south.... $180... list $90 our >price! Did not charge under load! I am glad the wag is only $40, but now i >have lifetime warranty. > >>you can roll your own if so inclined > >>Where do you get them? >>Michel >74 wag You could probably talk a vendor our of enough samples to build your own diode bridge. :) I haven't looked at the internals of an alternator for a little bit, not sure if there are two or four diodes involved. You'd need some large power diodes to do it correctly. Not undoable. Calculate your PIV (peak inverse voltage), total current draw and ambient conditions, then shop at DigiKEy or Active Electronics, or if you wanted to live on the edge, radio shack. THere's a guy here in Western Washington that will build you a custom high amp alternator for a fair price, typically less than $100. Pat at Lake Serene Auto Electric. When Superdawg looses his, I'll have Pat build a custom one. Or if I switch to the 4.0L setup, I'll have him go through the 85A one I have waiting in the wings with the spare stuff... OH, btw, I've seen the high amp rebuild kits for sale in JC Whitney as well... that'd be a good way of going. john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:12:47 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: NP229 input gear At 06:40 PM 2/27/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: Some of the XJ NP229s are 23 spline too (I just got one from an '85 >for parts) The NP219 input shaft may swap with the NP229 (they use the >same chain and viscous coupler according to Brad IIRC). You will >definitely want your hubs locked with a NP229 if you go into 4Hi gear! >Or else KABLOOEY VC! (Which is what happened to the one I have for parts >now!) oh really? hmmm... why is that? Anyway, I'm hoping to find a 21 spline so I can mate up to my Aisin Warner tranny... Hey, if nothing else I can buy the stock input gear somewhere and drop it in... I've never had an NP229 out... only the NP219, and Dana 20s and so on... I've owned three NP229's in rigs though... xj's and mj's... I figured they would have been 21 spline since they had the v6's and the 904 or 999s. john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:19:24 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) At 07:02 PM 2/27/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: You'll have to forward this over to the Benz list, since I'm not on >it. What size tires are on the 300D, and what gear ratio (I figured out >how to reverse calc with 4lo.com's gearing/tire size calculator) It I've got the formulas on my website: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/ check any of the spreadsheets on gear ratios. Seems to me that the gearing on the Benz was in the high threes... something like 3.67 or some oddball ratio like that... >would definitely be an advantage to have a turbo on it! What tranny do >they run too? Does advance adapters make a Mercedes/ Dodge conversion >kit? (at least to the tranny) yeah, a turbo would help a bunch! they run a mercedes transmission, slushbox. I sincerely doubt there is any adapter to mate anything mercedes to anything else... > On the Chev conversion, a Chev NP208 would be a better swap! hmm... that wouldn't be a bad thing... I might be able to find everything for about $3k. drop it right in... Funny how I'd have trouble selling two working drivelines for that much though... never seems to work out very well. ;) > I heard the Korando is a ripoff of the Commando! (Chinese version) Commando or the Wrangler? It didn't look like any Commando I've ever seen before... Looked like a CJ7 with a hardtop... it's in the latest issue of Four Wheeler I think... will look later, john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 19:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out A: Most of the time, the diodes are still intact, and just need resoldering (at least the older '80's ones) I replaced LOTS of them with Chev 10 si Delecotron alts, or one wire ones. The high amp ones usually require higher RPM to charge that I've found. They are Delta wound instead of Alpha(?). I have a brand new 200Amp chrome alt for my rebuild. I'm considering getting a J20 to do up (haul trailer) At 05:58 PM 2/27/00 PST, michel balea wrote: My son's honda alternator... few diodes went south.... $180... list $90 our price! Did not charge under load! I am glad the wag is only $40, but now i have lifetime warranty. you can roll your own if so inclined Where do you get them? Michel 74 wag You could probably talk a vendor our of enough samples to build your own diode bridge. :) I haven't looked at the internals of an alternator for a little bit, not sure if there are two or four diodes involved. You'd need some large power diodes to do it correctly. Not undoable. Calculate your PIV (peak inverse voltage), total current draw and ambient conditions, then shop at DigiKEy or Active Electronics, or if you wanted to live on the edge, radio shack. THere's a guy here in Western Washington that will build you a custom high amp alternator for a fair price, typically less than $100. Pat at Lake Serene Auto Electric. When Superdawg looses his, I'll have Pat build a custom one. Or if I switch to the 4.0L setup, I'll have him go through the 85A one I have waiting in the wings with the spare stuff... OH, btw, I've seen the high amp rebuild kits for sale in JC Whitney as well... that'd be a good way of going. john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:06:53 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the latest Daimler - Jeep merger... ;) A: If you are correct in the Mercedes being 3.93, then with 28.8" tires, you would use 4.10 ratio to get a close match. (4.54 would be perkier) Bigger tires need lower ratio of course! tires were 195/70/14 still haven't wandered out to the office... wait, i've got a dieselbenz page, hold the line.... http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/mercedes-diesels.html everything but the gear ratio... :( john At 07:43 PM 2/27/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: You've got the formula, but I like the input calculator better! LOL! Get me the tire size and exact ratio, and I'll give you just what you need for tires with ratio! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 20:21:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: $2.50 contact that wears out A: In Canada, you can buy rebuild kits for most alternators, and I have a friend I can get the individual parts from (if he's still in business. Last I talked to him his wife and mother were in a car crash while on Mission) John wrote: you can roll your own if so inclined. :) you could figure out the power diode needed and attach it to the case externally... The problem with moving stuff like that is the RFI problem. Keeping things as designed usually eliminates interference problems. john At 09:32 AM 2/27/00 PST, michel balea wrote: You have it right James, Do you remember how the Columbia shuttle went down.... $1.00 O-ring, may be they are $10 for the shuttle! Just like the failing diodes on alternators.... noone will sell you just the diode.... Michel 74 wag ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #750 *************************