From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 2 11:22:20 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, March 2 2000 Volume 01 : Number 756 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Black smoke and white gas fsj: weird error... re: carb jetting fsj: Fw: Black smoke and white gas fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting Re: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting Re: fsj: Fw: Black smoke and white gas Re: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting fsj: Re: FSJ Buying ?'s fsj: Make your voice heard Re: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting fsj: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:31:40 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Black smoke and white gas Another thought, John, is to decrease your accelerator pump shot. If you're getting too much gas from the accel. pump when you goose it, you sure will make black smoke. If your plugs aren't reading rich, rejetting won't help I had an FSJ moment this evening. Ran out of gas, only had a gallon of Coleman lantern fuel handy .Now, my FJ-40 would run OK on white gas in an emergency out in the boonies, didn't ping or knock unless you really got on it. But my AMC 360, even with 130,000+ on it rattled like a Diesel at anything above an idle. Luckily, only had to go 1/4 mile. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: weird error... re: carb jetting I saw a flash on the screen from Kim about rejetting/accelertor pump... I jumped back into pine and poof... it was gone. I saw enough of the message to say this, yes plugs and tailpipe read VERY, VERY rich... black as coal. So if I simply lean this sucker out and have a smaller accelerator piston put it that'll help, right? How much will it help? ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:44:01 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Fw: Black smoke and white gas - ----- Original Message ----- From: Kim Smith To: FSJ Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 23:31 Subject: fsj: Black smoke and white gas Another thought, John, is to decrease your accelerator pump shot. If you're getting too much gas from the accel. pump when you goose it, you sure will make black smoke. If your plugs aren't reading rich, rejetting won't help I had an FSJ moment this evening. Ran out of gas, only had a gallon of Coleman lantern fuel handy .Now, my FJ-40 would run OK on white gas in an emergency out in the boonies, didn't ping or knock unless you really got on it. But my AMC 360, even with 130,000+ on it rattled like a Diesel at anything above an idle. Luckily, only had to go 1/4 mile. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:45:55 -0700 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting Swami says maybe 1-3mpg. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: full size jeep list Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 23:35 Subject: fsj: weird error... re: carb jetting I saw a flash on the screen from Kim about rejetting/accelertor pump... I jumped back into pine and poof... it was gone. I saw enough of the message to say this, yes plugs and tailpipe read VERY, VERY rich... black as coal. So if I simply lean this sucker out and have a smaller accelerator piston put it that'll help, right? How much will it help? ;) john ---- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:47:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Kim Smith wrote: >-->Swami says maybe 1-3mpg. >-->kim so I'd go from 14 to 15 to 17... not bad for a handful of little parts... I'll look into it, thanx, john >-->'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 >--> ----- Original Message ----- >--> From: john >--> To: full size jeep list >--> Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 23:35 >--> Subject: fsj: weird error... re: carb jetting >--> >--> >--> I saw a flash on the screen from Kim about rejetting/accelertor pump... >--> I jumped back into pine and poof... it was gone. >--> >--> I saw enough of the message to say this, yes plugs and tailpipe read >--> VERY, VERY rich... black as coal. >--> >--> So if I simply lean this sucker out and have a smaller accelerator piston >--> put it that'll help, right? How much will it help? ;) >--> >--> john >--> >--> ---- >--> >--> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com >--> don't leave life without Jesus, please... >--> Snohomish, Washington USA >--> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Fw: Black smoke and white gas Kim you're sending some weird text... not standard... I'm running in UNIX tonight, standard stuff... I think Bill has crawled into your email program and is trying to take it over or something... plain text man... ;) It's black all the time, and really blows black smoke when I mash it. :) Anyway, having a Diesel is much cooler... I ran out of fuel once and got myself off the Hewitt Avenue Trestle (US 2) (a two mile long elevated bridge across the Snohomish River delta...) with a HALF a QUART of motor oil!!! Don't try that in a gas motor... ;) john On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Kim Smith wrote: >--> >-->----- Original Message ----- >-->From: Kim Smith >-->To: FSJ >-->Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 23:31 >-->Subject: fsj: Black smoke and white gas >--> >--> >-->Another thought, John, is to decrease your accelerator pump shot. If you're >-->getting too much gas from the accel. pump when you goose it, you sure will >-->make black smoke. If your plugs aren't reading rich, rejetting won't help >--> >-->I had an FSJ moment this evening. Ran out of gas, only had a gallon of >-->Coleman lantern fuel handy .Now, my FJ-40 would run OK on white gas in an >-->emergency out in the boonies, didn't ping or knock unless you really got on >-->it. But my AMC 360, even with 130,000+ on it rattled like a Diesel at >-->anything above an idle. Luckily, only had to go 1/4 mile. >--> >-->kim >-->'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219. >--> >--> >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:15:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting A: Are you sure that wasn't from me? One of the first things I said was rejet and adjust the accelerator shot rod. And maybe a smaller power valve (and the anti blowout kit!) On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Kim Smith wrote: Swami says maybe 1-3mpg. kim so I'd go from 14 to 15 to 17... not bad for a handful of little parts... I'll look into it, thanx, john '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 =A0=A0----- Original Message ----- =A0=A0=A0=A0From: john =A0=A0To: full size jeep list =A0=A0Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 23:35 =A0=A0Subject: fsj: weird error... re: carb jetting =A0=A0=A0=A0I saw a flash on the screen from Kim about rejetting/accelertor pump... I jumped back into pine and poof... it was gone. =A0=A0=A0=A0I saw enough of the message to say this, yes plugs and tailpipe read VERY, VERY rich... black as coal. =A0=A0=A0=A0So if I simply lean this sucker out and have a smaller accelerator piston put it that'll help, right? How much will it help? ;) =A0=A0=A0=A0john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 22:24:32 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ Buying ?'s three grand for a rust free running 86 isn't too bad. normal mechanical things to check for. parts still available and plentiful. I usually recommend and 86 and up. I'd just get a Jacobs coil and wires, forgo the hei computer silliness... the wires will be fine. the edelbrock 1406 / performer manifold is a smooth setup. :) I've migrated to the 258 in an 83 J10 STepside... love it! I'm just trying to get it somewhere close to stock so the mileage improves... congrats on the Linux move, very good! Ask your isp what he's running, or go to netcaster.net and figure it out from there. :) I'm originally from Northern Illinois... it's a lot better than Georgia, you agree, right? ;) john On Thu, 2 Mar 2000, shehan wrote: >-->John- >--> >-->Brandon Shehan (formerly of Ft Stewart GA, now Scott AFB, IL) here >-->again. >--> >-->There's an 86 GW on the lemon lot that looks pretty solid, overall. No >-->rot...miles are about 100k. Belly is wet from some sort of fluid, but >-->those are Jeep hereditary. >--> >-->Questions: >--> >-->-Is there anything model-specific other than than general rust that I >-->should be looking for in these beasties? >--> >-->-Is the induction/ignition as worthless as the 'common wisdom' would >-->suggest? >--> >-->-Are all the small parts that break now unavailable and this thing soon >-->to become a woodgrained >-->blue elephant if I plunked my 3000 down on it? >--> >-->If I were to get it, I'd probably do the HEI/4bbl thing straight away. >--> >-->Regards >--> >-->Brandon Shehan >--> >-->PS- >--> >-->Took the plunge and installed Linux (mandrake 7.0) on my K6/300 >-->box....amazing how crashless she's been these days. Still groping >-->through some installs and finding out WHERE I gunzipped and untar'd some >-->things...... >--> >--> My worthless ISP, on the other hand....."DNS server? >-->whydayawannaknowdat....just let the CD do it's thing, OK man? It's a >-->PC, right? Windows, that's whatcha got, right?" ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 06:31:36 -0800 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: Make your voice heard 4-Land-at-onelist.com wrote: _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 18:29:04 -0500 > From: "Kimberly" > Subject: FW: alert > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Clark Collins [mailto:73563.1551-at-compuserve.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 6:19 PM > To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-at-compuserve.com > Subject: alert > > > ACTION ALERT > > To: All Multiple-Use Recreationists: > > MULTIPLE USE RECREATIONISTS TO CALL-IN ON MARCH 7 > > Tell the Forest Service not to listen to the Extreme Preservationists who > are spreading lies About Responsible OHV Recreation!!! > > For many years, the extreme preservationist movement has stated that its > goal is to seek a permanent BAN of responsible off-highway-vehicle (OHV) > recreation on all public lands. They have been largely successful in > implementing a functional BAN of sustainable forestry in our national > forests and now they have targeted OHVs for that same fate. > > On March 9, the anti-everyone-but-me crowd is planning a national call-in > day to the US Forest Service urging them to (functionally) BAN all OHV > recreation on lands managed by the Forest Service. We have to upstage them > in a massive way by preempting their strike with one of our own! > > On March 7, the Blue Ribbon Coalition, along with a number of multiple-use > recreation and resource groups, is planning a national PRO-OHV call-in day. > The reason for having our call-in on March 7 is because if we don't > separate our call-in by at least one day...our legislators and federal > agencies might CONFUSE our call-in with that of our opponents. > > This is a maximum effort campaign by our side and all of us need to make > sure that we burn up the email, phone, and FAX lines into the Forest > Service. Please reroute this ALERT to your own communication networks so > that our voices will be heard by Chief Dombeck. > > Please email, phone, and FAX your positive comments about how important > responsible OHV recreation is to millions of Americans. Be sure and tell > the Chief about how OHV recreation relates to your family or business. > > Here are some things you might include in your comments. > > 1) OHV users are protecting the environment by promoting user ethics as > outlined by groups and organizations such as; Tread Lightly!, the Blue > Ribbon Coalition, United Four Wheel Drive Associations, American Council of > Snowmobile Associations, National Off Highway Vehicle Conservation Council, > and the American Motorcyclist Association (list other groups in this list > as well) > > 2) OHV users contribute thousands of man/woman hours each year on volunteer > programs that protect and preserve our natural resources. > > 3) OHV users support managed recreational opportunities on Forest Service > lands. > > 4) While most OHV users support the original intent of the 1964 Wilderness > Act to protect lands untrammeled by modern man, the lands currently > available for multiple-use must be managed and remain open for the general > public to use and enjoy for a wide variety of opportunities. > > 5) OHV users do not support the Presidents roadless directive that could > CLOSE millions of acres of prime multiple-use recreation areas that have > established and legal recreational roads, trails, and dispersed > campgrounds. > > 6) Tell the Chief that you want him to ask for funds to adequately support > the Forest Services recreation and trail programs. For many years the > Forest Service has said they support recreation but they have NOT asked for > the appropriated monies to do so. > > Please call, email, and FAX to the numbers below on March 7th (if you can't > get through on the 7th continue on the 8th): > > Chief Mike Dombeck > Email: Mike.Dombeck/wo-at-fs.fed.us > FAX: (202)205-1765 > Phone: (202)205-1661 > > Again, thanks for your time and effort to promote and protect responsible > OHV recreation on our public lands. Don't let the Sierra Club, The > Wilderness Society, the Wildlands Center for Preventing Roads, and other > extreme preservationist groups cast aspersions on all the hard work that > you have done to make OHV recreation the family-oriented sport it is today. Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:14:06 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: weird error... re: carb jetting I'd heard it before from a couple of folks, just not with the mpg= estimates... john At 11:15 PM 3/1/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >A: Are you sure that wasn't from me? One of the first things I said was >rejet and adjust the accelerator shot rod. And maybe a smaller power >valve (and the anti blowout kit!) > >On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Kim Smith wrote:=20 >Swami says maybe 1-3mpg. >kim=20 >so I'd go from 14 to 15 to 17... not bad for a handful of little >parts... I'll look into it,=20 >thanx, >john=20 >'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 >=A0=A0----- Original Message -----=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0From: john >=A0=A0To: full size jeep list >=A0=A0Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 23:35 >=A0=A0Subject: fsj: weird error... re: carb jetting=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0I saw a flash on the screen from Kim about >rejetting/accelertor pump... I jumped back into pine and poof... it was >gone.=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0I saw enough of the message to say this, yes plugs and >tailpipe read VERY, VERY rich... black as coal.=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0So if I simply lean this sucker out and have a smaller >accelerator piston put it that'll help, right? How much will it help? ;)=20 >=A0=A0=A0=A0john=20 > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: >http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse=20 >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:27:43 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: AMC 360 Engine Mods/Build "TLynn" writes: >> I just recieved the latest Summit catalog and they have roller rockers= from "Harland Sharp" for the AMC v8's 1.6 ratio and 3/8" stud part number csp-4004 for $199.95 (set of 16)...page 58. << Yes, Harland Sharp, Crane, Comp. Cams and many others make roller rockers= for the AMC V-8 in 3/8 and 7/16 stud sizes. Crane makes a 1.7 to 1 ratio in addition to a 1.6 too. Landon wanted to include roller hydraulic lifters in his planned rebuild.= The lifters are on the other end of the push rod from the rockers :-). Easy mistake to make. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 02-Mar-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Mar 100 11:07:00 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC There are different sized versions of the 2GC that range in CFM from something like 350 to 500. - -brad Kim writes: > Don't know about plumber's putty, but I rejetted my 2GC by filling the > included spare jets with J-B Weld, and drilling them out a little at a time > with wire drills. Worked for me. Rejetting the Holley is the cheapest thing > to do for now, but if my experience with the FJ-40 is any guide, you won't > pick up a lot of mpg. Venturi area is the key to mileage improvement, you > need high flow velocity not high volume at low rpm. > > kim > '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: john > To: Kim Smith > Cc: FSJ > Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 22:57 > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Rochester 2GC > > > thanx... > > btw, someone mentioned rejetting the 2v holley gas hose that's on > there now... shoot, I might be better if I just plugged one of the holes > with plumbers putty and duct tape... ;) > > john > > At 10:52 PM 3/1/00 -0700, Kim Smith wrote: > >I'd avoid that Rochester like the plague! It was a popular conversion for > I6 > >Landcruisers, too, but the Weber 38/38 is a better carb for go, and the > >Weber 32/36 for economy. My '69 FJ-40, my last ride before J0E had the > >Rochester ["Yes, Mr. Benny?"] and my friend's FJ-40, the same in every > other > >respect, with the Weber 32/36 got 5mpg better mileage. I suppose you > could > >get an adapter and run the Weber until you get the 4.0L installed. If a > >person was starting from scratch, the hot ticket would be Clifford's > purpose > >built manifold for the Weber on the 258ci. Although, the more I look at > >things, the more I'm persuaded that if you insist on a petrol motor, > closed > >loop FI is the way to go for max mileage. > > > >kim > >'80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: john > > To: Paul W. > > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net > > Sent: Wednesday, 01 March, 2000 21:44 > > Subject: fsj: Re: Rochester 2GC > > > > > > so in other words, it won't work with the Clifford, just like > > the Holley TBI... > > > > > > It's looking like the only thing that is going to work, other than > > the 4.0L setup, is the Holley 390 cfm for $250 from Jegs... problem > > is I'm outta bucks... :( Gotta sell an HP pretty quick. :) > > > > john > > > > > > At 06:00 PM 3/1/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: > > >It's a common as dirt two barrel carb used on all the GM sixes and > small > >bock > > >V8's from the 50's well into the 70's. The 350 (and maybe the 327?) > >version > > >has a bigger bolt pattern (and more CFM) than the others. I don't > know > >if > > one > > >will bolt to your Clifford, since I don't know what pattern it has, > but > >if I > > >remember right, if a BBD will fit, so will the smaller 2GC... it's a > >popular > > >mod for the CJ crowd that are cursed with problematic BBDs. You > probably > > won't > > >find one at Fitz due to their age, but places like Ray's Auto Wrecking > in > > >Everett, or any other yard that specializes in the older cars should > have > >a > > >pile of them. > > > > > >Paul > > > > > >--- john wrote: > > >> > > >> ok... what is a 2GC? What years/models? Is this a > > >> Fitz item or some other local yard? > > >> > > >> Will it bolt right up to the Clifford? > > >> > > >> thanx, > > >> john > > >> > > >> >Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 19:19:47 -0800 (PST) > > >> >From: "Paul W." > > >> >Subject: Re: xj: carb help... again... > > >> > > > >> >A carb that works well on the 258 and happens to also be an > excellent > > >> off-road > > >> >carb is a Rochester 2GC from a Chevy I6, old Buick/Jeep V6 or Chevy > >283 > > V8. > > >> >(some of the bigger small block Chevies also used a 2GC, but it is > a > > bigger > > >> >version that will be too much for a stock 258). Often times you > can > >find > > >> these > > >> >babies real cheap - or even free! I had a guy give me one from a > 283 > > >> because > > >> >he was going to a 4bbl and just wanted the thing out of his shop. > > >> > > > >> >Paul > > >> > > > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > > >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > > >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > > >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > >> ----------------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do You Yahoo!? > > >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > > >http://im.yahoo.com > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #756 *************************