From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Mar 6 10:07:09 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, March 5 2000 Volume 01 : Number 760 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 fsj: Re: update, on I got a problem with my J-10 Re: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 Re: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 fsj: Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 fsj: Re: Front end rebuild questions fsj: Re: update, on I got a problem with my J-10 Re: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10Honcho 80 Re: fsj: Re: update, on I got a problem with my J-10 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:10:09 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 there ya go... ya got a clue. rotor, plugs... check the plugs, pull 'em out and read 'em, note how tight they were... check that rotor, look for trails... is the distributer loose? worst case scenario you have a timing chain problem... unlikely, the kid used good parts... northern, jegs and summit. I gave you the receipts for the engine parts, right? check the timing with a light... I think the best thing to do is carefully examine the last thing you, or someone else, did to it. Bad plug(s), loose spark plug wire, bad rotor, cap arcing... if you bought the plugs, rotor, etc. at a chain parts store, you may have gotten junk. I'm sticking to NAPA and the dealer for stuff like that now... been burned too many times. john At 09:57 AM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: >The temp was a little warmer then normal. Fuel I think was fine, but it makes me >wonder about vapor lock. It's like one or two cylinders are not firing at all. I >just changed the rotor in the distributor, and the spark plugs. If the others >fire, the it must be timed? I have not checked it cold yet, I'll let you know >later. > >R.J. > >john wrote: > >> Did you notice the temperature before it started losing power? >> How is the fuel? How's the ignition? Is it still timed right? >> >> Does it start ok, turn over easily, when cold? Could be the carb, but the >> overheating thing wouldn't have happened I don't think... >> >> Either way, doesn't sound good... Hope it turns out to be a simple >> problem... >> >> It got me home from California, and got you to Alabama... you'd think if >> something >> were wrong in that engine it would have showed up a long time ago... I >> drove the >> thing up I-5 at the legal limit with no problems other than the alternator >> failing >> and the fuel gauge moving too fast. :) >> >> john >> >> At 11:55 PM 3/4/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: >> >Today going up a hill, the truck could only do about 50 mph, so to get it >> up a >> >extra way , I put the pedal to the floor. to go to 2nd gear, which it did >> .... >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ----------------------------------------------------- > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:24:45 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: update, on I got a problem with my J-10 sounds like a timing/ignition problem. pull the plugs, check 'em, or put the old ones back in. Double check the wiring of the plugs... are they seated? If you'd crossed a wire you wouldn't have gotten as far as you did. :) Check the dist to see if it's loose. Look carefully at the rotor and cap. If all that checks out, then it's possible you have a problem with the distributer gear or the timing chain... be careful to mark stuff before messing with that stuff... Hey, you had troubles like this with your wagoneer too, didn't you? ;) You might be like me, certain aspects of cars I stay away from: the internals of carbs and automatics... maybe you should stay away from your ignition systems, or get a Diesel... ;) john At 01:36 PM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: >Well, I went out side today to start it. cold. >It turns over cranking, and cranking, finally starts shaking for a 1/4 of a >second, then dies.. crank and crank again, if I give it gas it won't go to the >verge of starting, just when I keep my foot off the gas pedal, is when it's more >apt to try to start. any way it won't start now, maybe because it's cold, it >doesn't help... now what? > >R.J. > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:26:34 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 it's a stock setup to meet CA emissions... pretty sure it's a 2150. btw, it's Meister... ;) john At 01:44 PM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: >well I am think it might be both.. first fuel starvation.. stressing the engine, >which then caused a timing, valves to blow could it start as a fuel problem, as >in filter? was not a particular hot day yesterday and as well as today, it's sunny >and 70. i think it's a 2150.. I am not sure. >John Miester would know... >R.J. > >brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: > >> From: brazzadog-at-aol.com >> >> RJ - >> >> Since the problem started when you went for WOT, it sounds like a fuel >> starvation problem to me. What was the ambient temp down there in Dixie? >> Kinda sounds vapor-locky too, although a hot engine could do this by itself >> and may not be too surprising depending on the hill and your need for speed. >> Are you running the 2150? Was the engine too hot or just hotter than normal >> for this time of year? >> >> About a year and a half ago I battled the exact same symptoms, maybe (except >> the heat - I live in the desert so it takes alot to get my attention). I >> spent about 6 months trouble shooting and finally decided MTBE had rotted the >> fuel sock. The problem seemed to go away by itself after about 6 fuel filter >> changes and a bunch of other anti-vapor lock measures that didn't improve >> things. It occurs to me that a clogged filter could promote vapor lock, but >> I really never did figure out the cause/s. You've been down there just a few >> months now right? That's about how long after my trip to CA (MTBE land) that >> I started having problems. The last time it gave me a problem the ambient >> temp was 115* and I was climbing a long steep hill at 70 mph. It got me >> there and I can live with that kind of reliability. >> >> Ben Williams >> '71 Wagoneer >> '78 F-250 4x4 >> >> > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:55:35 -0600 >> > From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net >> > >> > Today going up a hill, the truck could only do about 50 mph, so to get it >> up >> > a >> > extra way , I put the pedal to the floor. to go to 2nd gear, which it did >> ... >> > . >> > then all of a sudden a loss of power, and sputtering.. so I pulled over at >> > the top >> > of the hill, It was hot too. It died >> > It would not re crank over.. so I had to called for a tow truck,, but as >> it >> > cooled >> > , I tried starting it again, it acted like it wanted to start, just on the >> > verge.. >> > battery was wearing down after a while. nothing on the ground, , no >> smoke.. >> > Then >> > finally after it cooled, I managed to get it started, But it was extremely >> > shaking, at idle a putt, putt sound, I managed to get it back home. sounds >> > like a >> > serious miss fire, could it be the carb? could it be valves? I am very >> > worried, >> > and confused since the engine only has 15,000 on it >> > I need to find a good place around here to get it looked at, >> > it's way out of my league in trouble shooting I think. >> > Please send any word out if you know of anybody in my area. I heard there >> > was a >> > Jeep Group around here, but who , what and where? >> > would somebody post this to the "other " list? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! >> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as >> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW! >> http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/696737/_/952278942/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Subscribe: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/1FSJ >> UnSubscribe: http://www.onelist.com/unsubscribe/1FSJ >> Our homepage: http://www.onelist.com/community/1FSJ > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:30:02 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 don't feel like the lone ranger... my little wagoneer came back from the shop and my wife had to abandon it 3/4 the way home, similar problem... The mechanic and I headed out and fired it up... missing, sputtering, coughing... turns out he didn't seat one of the jacobs wires on the dist cap correctly and it came off on her... I think we've found the problem... RJ and ignition systems combined with Jacobs wires... ;) Shoot, I should have bought a new set of Autolites and put 'em on for you and saved those Jacobs wires for me... ;) They are the best I've ever used or seen. You just have to make sure they're seated. ;) Don't mess with anything else until you elminate the wires and plugs though, no need to open up a bait shop there... (opening up a can of worms... rofl...) john At 01:51 PM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: >That could be! I had a heck of a problem trying to get the wires on and off, and >changing the plugs. >I just remember trying to get those Jacob boots on , and wondering if they where >seated properly.. >I remember some clicking feel on some of them, and some not as distinct, but since >it started, and it ran smooth, I think they were all connected right. maybe they >worked loose? I don't know how since it was such a bugger getting them on! but >even so.. wouldn't it start right up and shake with the miss firing? then it could >also be gas or timing? > >R.J. > > >Don Hansen wrote: > >> From: "Don Hansen" >> >> Maybe you didn't get the plug wires pushed on all the way: They can be a >> real PITA to seat properly, especially on someof the harder to reach plugs: >> Coil wire too, maybe not in all the way... >> >> --Don Hansen >> Braintree, MA. USA >> 1987 J-20 "Walter J." (Work) >> 1988 GW "Edna" (Play) >> 1990 GW "Max" (Hers) >> fixxa-at-beld.net >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "john" >> Cc: <1FSJ-at-onelist.com>; >> Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 10:57 AM >> Subject: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 >> >> > From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net >> > >> > The temp was a little warmer then normal. Fuel I think was fine, but it >> makes me >> > wonder about vapor lock. It's like one or two cylinders are not firing at >> all. I >> > just changed the rotor in the distributor, and the spark plugs. If the >> others >> > fire, the it must be timed? I have not checked it cold yet, I'll let you >> know >> > later. >> > >> > R.J. >> > >> > john wrote: >> > >> > > Did you notice the temperature before it started losing power? >> > > How is the fuel? How's the ignition? Is it still timed right? >> > > >> > > Does it start ok, turn over easily, when cold? Could be the carb, but >> the >> > > overheating thing wouldn't have happened I don't think... >> > > >> > > Either way, doesn't sound good... Hope it turns out to be a simple >> > > problem... >> > > >> > > It got me home from California, and got you to Alabama... you'd think if >> > > something >> > > were wrong in that engine it would have showed up a long time ago... I >> > > drove the >> > > thing up I-5 at the legal limit with no problems other than the >> alternator >> > > failing >> > > and the fuel gauge moving too fast. :) >> > > >> > > john >> > > >> > > At 11:55 PM 3/4/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: >> > > >Today going up a hill, the truck could only do about 50 mph, so to get >> it >> > > up a >> > > >extra way , I put the pedal to the floor. to go to 2nd gear, which it >> did >> > > .... >> > > >> > > ----------------------------------------------------- >> > > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> > > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> > > ----------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% >> > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! >> > http://click.egroups.com/1/936/3/_/696737/_/952271574/ >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > Subscribe: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/1FSJ >> > UnSubscribe: http://www.onelist.com/unsubscribe/1FSJ >> > Our homepage: http://www.onelist.com/community/1FSJ >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates >> as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. >> Apply NOW! >> http://click.egroups.com/1/975/3/_/696737/_/952279644/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Subscribe: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/1FSJ >> UnSubscribe: http://www.onelist.com/unsubscribe/1FSJ >> Our homepage: http://www.onelist.com/community/1FSJ > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:49:28 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10 Honcho 80 In a message dated 3/5/2000 11:47:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj- > Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:44:15 -0600 > From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net > > well I am think it might be both.. first fuel starvation.. stressing the > engine, > which then caused a timing, valves to blow could it start as a fuel problem, > as > in filter? was not a particular hot day yesterday and as well as today, it's > sunny > and 70. i think it's a 2150.. I am not sure. > John Miester would know... If it's a 2 barrel it should be the Motorcraft 2150. With ambient temps at 70* that should rule out vapor lock unless your engine was seriously hot or the fuel line is routed practically on top of a major heat source like the exhaust manifold. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 15:49:19 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Front end rebuild questions > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 19:34:55 -0800 > From: Clark Novak (snip) > 2) My shop told me the ball joints are shot, which of course means two new > tie-rod halves. Is this an easy enough job to tackle myself, or would I be > better off letting someone else do the wrenching? Clark - Usually "ball joints" refers to the ones that connect the steering knuckle the the end of the axle tube. The ones on the tie-rod are usually referred to as "tie-rod ends". The distinction could be important if you're gonna do it yourself based on what the shop says needs to be replaced. I don't know how your wrenching skills are, but ball joint removal and installation requires a C-clamp shaped ball joint press available through JC Whitney ($80?) and others. That and a wheel bearing socket should be about all you need for special tools. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:23:32 -0600 From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net Subject: fsj: Re: update, on I got a problem with my J-10 Yes.. maybe a diesel.... hmmm.. Well I am working on it now..,I will get back to you.. R.J. john wrote: > sounds like a timing/ignition problem. > > pull the plugs, check 'em, or put the old ones back in. Double > check the wiring of the plugs... are they seated? If you'd crossed > a wire you wouldn't have gotten as far as you did. :) > > Check the dist to see if it's loose. Look carefully at the rotor > and cap. > > If all that checks out, then it's possible you have a problem with the > distributer gear or the timing chain... be careful to mark stuff before > messing with that stuff... Hey, you had troubles like this with your > wagoneer too, didn't you? ;) You might be like me, certain aspects > of cars I stay away from: the internals of carbs and automatics... > > maybe you should stay away from your ignition systems, or get a Diesel... ;) > > john > > At 01:36 PM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: > >Well, I went out side today to start it. cold. > >It turns over cranking, and cranking, finally starts shaking for a 1/4 of a > >second, then dies.. crank and crank again, if I give it gas it won't go to > the > >verge of starting, just when I keep my foot off the gas pedal, is when > it's more > >apt to try to start. any way it won't start now, maybe because it's cold, it > >doesn't help... now what? > > > >R.J. > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:26:32 -0600 From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: well, I got a problem with the J-10Honcho 80 oops! sorry!!!!!! R.J. john wrote: > it's a stock setup to meet CA emissions... pretty sure it's a 2150. > btw, it's Meister... ;) > > john > > At 01:44 PM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: > >well I am think it might be both.. first fuel starvation.. stressing the > engine, > >which then caused a timing, valves to blow could it start as a fuel > problem, as > >in filter? was not a particular hot day yesterday and as well as today, > it's sunny > >and 70. i think it's a 2150.. I am not sure. > >John Miester would know... > >R.J. > > > >brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: > > > >> From: brazzadog-at-aol.com > >> > >> RJ - > >> > >> Since the problem started when you went for WOT, it sounds like a fuel > >> starvation problem to me. What was the ambient temp down there in Dixie? > >> Kinda sounds vapor-locky too, although a hot engine could do this by itself > >> and may not be too surprising depending on the hill and your need for > speed. > >> Are you running the 2150? Was the engine too hot or just hotter than > normal > >> for this time of year? > >> > >> About a year and a half ago I battled the exact same symptoms, maybe > (except > >> the heat - I live in the desert so it takes alot to get my attention). I > >> spent about 6 months trouble shooting and finally decided MTBE had > rotted the > >> fuel sock. The problem seemed to go away by itself after about 6 fuel > filter > >> changes and a bunch of other anti-vapor lock measures that didn't improve > >> things. It occurs to me that a clogged filter could promote vapor lock, > but > >> I really never did figure out the cause/s. You've been down there just > a few > >> months now right? That's about how long after my trip to CA (MTBE land) > that > >> I started having problems. The last time it gave me a problem the ambient > >> temp was 115* and I was climbing a long steep hill at 70 mph. It got me > >> there and I can live with that kind of reliability. > >> > >> Ben Williams > >> '71 Wagoneer > >> '78 F-250 4x4 > >> > >> > Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 23:55:35 -0600 > >> > From: poolcues-at-bellsouth.net > >> > > >> > Today going up a hill, the truck could only do about 50 mph, so to > get it > >> up > >> > a > >> > extra way , I put the pedal to the floor. to go to 2nd gear, which it > did > >> ... > >> > . > >> > then all of a sudden a loss of power, and sputtering.. so I pulled > over at > >> > the top > >> > of the hill, It was hot too. It died > >> > It would not re crank over.. so I had to called for a tow truck,, but as > >> it > >> > cooled > >> > , I tried starting it again, it acted like it wanted to start, just > on the > >> > verge.. > >> > battery was wearing down after a while. nothing on the ground, , no > >> smoke.. > >> > Then > >> > finally after it cooled, I managed to get it started, But it was > extremely > >> > shaking, at idle a putt, putt sound, I managed to get it back home. > sounds > >> > like a > >> > serious miss fire, could it be the carb? could it be valves? I am very > >> > worried, > >> > and confused since the engine only has 15,000 on it > >> > I need to find a good place around here to get it looked at, > >> > it's way out of my league in trouble shooting I think. > >> > Please send any word out if you know of anybody in my area. I heard > there > >> > was a > >> > Jeep Group around here, but who , what and where? > >> > would somebody post this to the "other " list? > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > >> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > >> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > >> Apply NOW! > >> http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/3/_/696737/_/952278942/ > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> Subscribe: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/1FSJ > >> UnSubscribe: http://www.onelist.com/unsubscribe/1FSJ > >> Our homepage: http://www.onelist.com/community/1FSJ > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 13:53:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: update, on I got a problem with my J-10 A: Well I'm out the door to John's then BC. Thought I'd pipe up here that if the cap wasn't on the dist right, under heavy throttle you may have clipped the tip of the rotor and snapped it off (I had that happen a couple times in GMs and Fords back when I was learning) Do you hear a loud hissing noise when it fires? Sounds like the brake vacuum hose was chewed through by the throttle linkage. John wrote: I got a problem with my J-10 sounds like a timing/ignition problem. pull the plugs, check 'em, or put the old ones back in. Double check the wiring of the plugs... are they seated? If you'd crossed a wire you wouldn't have gotten as far as you did. :) Check the dist to see if it's loose. Look carefully at the rotor and cap. If all that checks out, then it's possible you have a problem with the distributer gear or the timing chain... be careful to mark stuff before messing with that stuff... Hey, you had troubles like this with your wagoneer too, didn't you? ;) =A0 You might be like me, certain aspects of cars I stay away from: the internals of carbs and automatics... maybe you should stay away from your ignition systems, or get a Diesel... ;) john At 01:36 PM 3/5/00 -0600, poolcues-at-bellsouth.net wrote: Well, I went out side today to start it. cold. It turns over cranking, and cranking, finally starts shaking for a 1/4 of a second, then dies.. crank and crank again, if I give it gas it won't go to the verge of starting, just when I keep my foot off the gas pedal, is when it's more apt to try to start. any way it won't start now, maybe because it's cold, it doesn't help... now what? R.J. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #760 *************************