From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Mar 8 16:37:54 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, March 8 2000 Volume 01 : Number 766 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: interior parts Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! Re: fsj: james and elmo Re: fsj: Re: Salvage Yards :-( Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #762 Re: fsj: introduction RE: fsj: power steering leaks fsj: Superdawg popped something... fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl Re: [fsj: Re: fsj magazine] RE: fsj: power steering leaks fsj: fuel tanks fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) fsj: RE: Re: Jeepsta Girl fsj: RE: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) Re: fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Mar 100 11:25:16 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: interior parts Shoot -- for $250 you could buy a whole new driveshaft balanced with brand new u-joints!! - -brad John writes: > the u-joints in the double cardan probably inspired that > math guy in eastern europe to come up with the rubik's cube... ;) > > in other words, I'd try it yourself to save $250... you can always > carry the pieces in to a shop and have them finish it... ;) > You'll need a couple of c-clamps and plenty of patience... it's doable > though... Try it... > > john > > > At 06:46 PM 3/7/00 EST, RKH911-at-aol.com wrote: > >Im going to be replacing the carpeting soon and wondered what you all > thought > >of this idea....I want to use some type of "rubberized paint" to seal all > the > >leaky spots that must be under there...waste of time, other suggestions. > >Also need to replace my U Joints soon - Is this a hard project or should I > >pay the 250 they want here in town? > > > >Rob Harrison > >85 Grand Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 100 11:38:16 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! My 82 has the extra digit. - -brad John writes: > you know that's a verifiable clock reading too... I think > 83 and up had the extra odometer reading to see if it rolled > past 100k... I'm pretty sure superdawg has a 1 to the far left. > > Anybody know when they changed? My 81 didn't have it. Since > my J10 is an 83 and it has it, I'd guess the wAgoeners had it in > at least 83, more likely 82, since the J10s were a year or two behind... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:42:48 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! cool... I took a digital picture of my 83 this morning... but why didn't jimmy b's 84 gw have it??? hey Allan W, does your 84, or is it an 85? have it? john At 11:38 AM 3/8/00 -0800, Brad Seevers wrote: > >My 82 has the extra digit. > >-brad > >John writes: > >> you know that's a verifiable clock reading too... I think >> 83 and up had the extra odometer reading to see if it rolled >> past 100k... I'm pretty sure superdawg has a 1 to the far left. >> >> Anybody know when they changed? My 81 didn't have it. Since >> my J10 is an 83 and it has it, I'd guess the wAgoeners had it in >> at least 83, more likely 82, since the J10s were a year or two behind... > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:44:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: james and elmo >At 07:22 AM 3/8/00 -0800, Clark Novak wrote: After all that, I have just one question: what hairy little red demon posessed you to buy this beast? :) Clark A: Originally,it was going to be parts for my Eagle, and when I found out Olympic 4x4 wanted $500 for a used xfercase, I figured it was worth a chance! Besides, it was a 6 cyl, and I already had a motor to plop in! The other stuff I found out as I went along. (Good thing I have another frame. What's harder to understand is I paid $1000 for an '84 GW for parts!) John wrote: >Two things quickly come to mind , one, he mentions buying it for $350, which is a good deal, it's a nice looking rig, two, he's pretty mechanically inclined, and three, if I may, relates to his experiences encountered during the Duval earthquake, which I'm sure he'll relate to us... :) A: It's on my website already! Don't gotta lift it to crawl under and work on it! Big bonus when any loud noise while under a lifted up car makes you soil your denims and roll out and run in stark terror! It's even worse when dealing with a green vehicle (my wife is wondering why it's taken 2 months to change the motor on the GREEN '75 Chev 1 ton that's in my yard, when normally it takes 2 days. Partly it's a conversion V8 to 6 cyl and partly my knuckles are still healing from last time working on it!) >I've got some pictures of Elmo from Sunday, I'll put up later today... Elmo is lookin' good with Superdawg's black grille... I'll do a little work with a photo editor to do a before and after. I'm still amazed at how much better both rigs look after the swap. A true win-win scenario. ;) john A: I agree. It looks fine! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Blair" Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:03 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #762 A: The DSPO of Elmo left the hood off after spending nearly $1000 for a ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:48:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Salvage Yards :-( A: I was going to answer, but I didn't have time to finish researching it, and figured someone else would jump in. Time is kind of sucked up getting my house prepared for sale right now, and job hunting (I'm on lunch break right now) At 09:52 AM 3/8/00 -0600, Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: I am kind'a disapointed at the lack of responses though. I guess swapping axles just isn't very interesting.... Later Jamie "still looking" Phillips '73 J-4000 '77 F250 Problem is most of us don't know to answer. Second problem is you're dealing with a unique axle and setup... I'd suggest calling Olympic 4x4 in Snohomish but I'm not sure they'll be able to help... :( john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:18:51 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #762 A: After all is said and done, Elmo has always got me home! Only time towed was bringing it home. Not even when the rear wheels studs were snapping off due to someone loosening my lugs just before I picked up the '84 GW axles and interior from Olympia plus a load of Eagle stuff (I swiped a couple studs from the new axle). Or when MTBE turned my gas sock to mush while backroad driving on Mt Rainier with Jerry and crew of Backroads_Northwest-at-egroups.com and when Q-No-Lube in Smokey Point drained all my diff oil and sent me on the highway dry so my rear axle was the Smokey Point 120 miles later! Reliable as can be! Once I had trouble starting when it was cold, but that was before carb adjusting w/o the computer! >After all that, I have just one question: what hairy little red demon posessed you to buy this beast? :) Clark ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:33:54 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: introduction A: Hi Chris! Sorry to hear about the Heckethorns! When they die, you'll find the Edelbrocks are MUCH nicer riding! Chris=A0J=A0Lewis) wrote: Hello list, =A0 =A0 My name is Chris, and my wife and I just replaced our 1998 ZJ with a 1989 Grand wagoneer. last weekend I installed 4 rough country 3" springs w/ heckthorn hydro shocks, 31" mickey thomson mtx radials, new radiator,dynomax exhaust,starter,plugs and wires. We are very happy with this rig so far. it's in great shape for a Michigan Jeep. This is not our first jeep. have had two CJ's and the current other jeep is a 95 YJ with lots of mods. I am looking forward to lerning lots from you folks. Have a good one! Chris ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:52:20 -0600 From: "Bob Bradfield" Subject: RE: fsj: power steering leaks Not the hose but, it happens only when the engine is running. It's dripping from the rubber pads where the shaft connects (hi pressure leak forcing up there?) I've gotten under it and tried to find exact location but, that's where the drip is coming from... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > john > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:37 PM > To: Bob Bradfield > Cc: Landon Tesar; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: power steering leaks > > > At 09:50 AM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Bradfield wrote: > >Two questions: > > > >Is anybody seeing my emails? > > yes > > > > >My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks > like where it > >hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? > > Is it coming from the hose, the reservoir or the actual steering box? > > Clean it all off and then look. My guess it's the hose. All parts > are replaceable... not terribly expensive either.... > > john > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:45:12 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Superdawg popped something... Coming back from lunch I down shifted because the car ahead of me was doing about 15 under the limit... and something went pop and it sounded like the exhaust done sprung a leak... I shut the radidio off and listened... yep. Definetly an exhaust leak, but not like the whole manifold or anything... So, when I got into my parking space, popped the hood and expected to see a cracked manifold or missing bolts or something... nothing, so I fired him up and then saw it... just right of the O2 sensor on the side of the manifold is this really nice, round opening... and it was blowing hot air... hmmm... interesting... was it a freezer type plug in there or a sensor or what? Any ideas on how best to fix it? Should I just get a freezer plug that would fit the hole and pound it in, or is this more serious, like there used to be an egr port there or something???? It's an 83 258... Jimmy B, whaddya think? (Hey, I took pictures of your setup Sunday, guess I'll take a look and put 'em up on my server in a bit... ) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:59:37 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl At 03:13 PM 3/8/00 EST, PR4545-at-aol.com wrote: >Dear Sir: > >I have just finished restoring an '85 Grand Wagoneer. Then the transfer case >went out. It is model # 229. Please advise me where I can get one. Thanks for >your time > >Patricia in Houston They're all over the place... you just need to find a wrecking yard that has a locater service. Typical pricing should be in the $350 to $700 range for a good used NP229. Typical price up here in the NW at Olympic 4x4 is about $650 for an NP229, when they have 'em. An NP228 will also work. You might be able to use an NP219, but you'd have to make sure your front axle is engaged all the time. You might also consider having yours rebuilt if the case isn't bad. A new chain, new bearings and worst case, a new viscous coupler... A rebuild could run up a bit, plus labor for R&R (remove and replace). A chain kit runs about $150 or so... plus or minus a bit... ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com 67 J3000 (SJ) - 88 wagoneer (xj) - 83 J10 Stepside (SJ) jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 13:56:18 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: fsj magazine] the picture on the cover is awesome... I'm inspired... I took some shots of my FSJ today... gonna get my articles cleaned up and sent in... The magazine is obviously amateur, but has LOTS of potential. We need to support the effort. I thought about doing this years ago but never had the wherewithal to follow through. It's great to see someone act on the idea. Time keeps slipping on by... john At 01:06 PM 3/8/00 MST, Michael Shimniok wrote: >john wrote: >> http://members.home.net/abdelnou/slow/slow.htm >> >> it's called FSJ. It's run by >> Mike Abber >> FSJ Magazine Editor > >FYI, the feature rig on the website is James Junkin's Cherokee, he's one of my >fellow Colorado Full Size Jeep Club guys. "Troubled Child," my white 86, is >pictured under "trail ride" and is sitting next to our webmaster Toby DeMoss' >rig. :) > >I feel famous. :) > >Michael > >--- >Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net > "For every complex problem, there is a solution that > is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken > >____________________________________________________________________ >Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:01:53 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: fsj: power steering leaks on the steering box itself? Not that hard to replace, but I'd have a front end shop do it because of the steering arm nut... john At 02:52 PM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Bradfield wrote: >Not the hose but, it happens only when the engine is running. It's dripping >from the rubber pads where the shaft connects (hi pressure leak forcing up >there?) I've gotten under it and tried to find exact location but, that's >where the drip is coming from... > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of >> john >> Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 12:37 PM >> To: Bob Bradfield >> Cc: Landon Tesar; fsj-at-digest.net >> Subject: Re: fsj: power steering leaks >> >> >> At 09:50 AM 3/8/00 -0600, Bob Bradfield wrote: >> >Two questions: >> > >> >Is anybody seeing my emails? >> >> yes >> >> > >> >My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks >> like where it >> >hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? >> >> Is it coming from the hose, the reservoir or the actual steering box? >> >> Clean it all off and then look. My guess it's the hose. All parts >> are replaceable... not terribly expensive either.... >> >> john >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 14:08:46 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: fuel tanks http://www.aerotanks.com/tanks.htm#Jeep the only problem, J10s: 70-79, lwb... :( mounts in original... :( I guess I just need the plumbing stuff, have a couple spare tanks I could use... anyway, the URL cites other jeeps... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 16:22:54 -0600 From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) "Bob Bradfield" said: {- My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks like where it {- hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? John already said this, but let me re-emphasize: Make sure it's not just the hose. Mine was leaking from that same area a few months ago, and we cleaned up everything and it still looked like it was coming from the box right near where the steering shaft goes in. Got a used power steering box and I had the old one completely disconnected, and then we finally disconnected the hoses... and the return hose had a few nice slices in them. The slices were so clean they looked like someone made them with a knife, but there's no way they would've bothered making cuts in that difficult a place. Anyway, the auto places were closed, so we got some yellow plumbing hose from Lowe's that was just labeled "high pressure" and had the same inner diameter and used that; it's still working fine, although I know to watch as the weather gets warmer to make sure the outside doesn't blister (don't know if home plumbing hose will stand up to heat in an engine compartment in a Midwest summer). But the point is it could be the hoses and it would be almost impossible to tell until you unhook them. So take them off first; they have to come off if you replace the box anyway, so might as well make sure it's not them first. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hiroshima '45 Chernobyl '86 Windows '95 - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:28:15 -0600 From: "Bob Bradfield" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Jeepsta Girl Patricia; I live in Houston and there's yard on Bingle in the Spring Woods area that has 3 Wag's. I've scrounged some parts offa them, reasonable prices.... > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > john > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:00 PM > To: PR4545-at-aol.com > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: Jeepsta Girl > > > At 03:13 PM 3/8/00 EST, PR4545-at-aol.com wrote: > >Dear Sir: > > > >I have just finished restoring an '85 Grand Wagoneer. Then the > transfer case > >went out. It is model # 229. Please advise me where I can get one. Thanks > for > >your time > > > >Patricia in Houston > > They're all over the place... you just need to find a wrecking yard that > has a locater service. Typical pricing should be in the $350 to > $700 range > for a good used NP229. Typical price up here in the NW at Olympic 4x4 is > about $650 for an NP229, when they have 'em. An NP228 will also > work. You > might be able to use an NP219, but you'd have to make sure your front axle > is engaged all the time. > > You might also consider having yours rebuilt if the case isn't bad. A > new chain, new bearings and worst case, a new viscous coupler... > A rebuild > could run up a bit, plus labor for R&R (remove and replace). A chain > kit runs about $150 or so... plus or minus a bit... ;) > > john > ----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-virtual-cafe.com http://www.wagoneers.com > 67 J3000 (SJ) - 88 wagoneer (xj) - 83 J10 Stepside (SJ) > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > ----------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:29:21 -0600 From: "Bob Bradfield" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) I found some cracks in the return hose last weekend, in the last inch or so before the box. Cut them off but, I'll double check. Thanks! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of Dan > Black > Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2000 4:23 PM > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) > > > "Bob Bradfield" said: > {- My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks > like where it > {- hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? > > John already said this, but let me re-emphasize: Make sure it's not just > the hose. > > Mine was leaking from that same area a few months ago, and we cleaned up > everything and it still looked like it was coming from the box right > near where the steering shaft goes in. Got a used power steering box > and I had the old one completely disconnected, and then we finally > disconnected the hoses... and the return hose had a few nice slices in > them. The slices were so clean they looked like someone made them with > a knife, but there's no way they would've bothered making cuts in that > difficult a place. > > Anyway, the auto places were closed, so we got some yellow plumbing hose > from Lowe's that was just labeled "high pressure" and had the same inner > diameter and used that; it's still working fine, although I know to > watch as the weather gets warmer to make sure the outside doesn't > blister (don't know if home plumbing hose will stand up to heat in an > engine compartment in a Midwest summer). > > But the point is it could be the hoses and it would be almost impossible > to tell until you unhook them. So take them off first; they have to > come off if you replace the box anyway, so might as well make sure it's > not them first. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------- > Hiroshima '45 Chernobyl '86 Windows '95 > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org > -------------- > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:35:43 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) A: I had a customer complain that his valvecover gaskets wouldn't stop leaking, no matter how many times he had shops replace them. Turned out to be a pin hole in the PS high pressure hose squirting on the exhaust, only on extreme turns. I knew that's what it was from the smell of the oil burning. ATF and motor oil smell MUCH different!) Also, I may have replaced my rear main seal in Elmo in error. It may have been my oil pressure sending unit all along! "Bob Bradfield" said: {- My 83 Wag Ltd is leaking fluid from the steering gear, looks like where it {- hooks to the steering shaft. Is there a rebuild kit? John already said this, but let me re-emphasize: Make sure it's not just the hose. Mine was leaking from that same area a few months ago, and we cleaned up everything and it still looked like it was coming from the box right near where the steering shaft goes in. Got a used power steering box and I had the old one completely disconnected, and then we finally disconnected the hoses... and the return hose had a few nice slices in them. The slices were so clean they looked like someone made them with a knife, but there's no way they would've bothered making cuts in that difficult a place. Anyway, the auto places were closed, so we got some yellow plumbing hose from Lowe's that was just labeled "high pressure" and had the same inner diameter and used that; it's still working fine, although I know to watch as the weather gets warmer to make sure the outside doesn't blister (don't know if home plumbing hose will stand up to heat in an engine compartment in a Midwest summer). But the point is it could be the hoses and it would be almost impossible to tell until you unhook them. So take them off first; they have to come off if you replace the box anyway, so might as well make sure it's not them first. - ---------------------------------------------- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Hiroshima '45 =A0 =A0 Chernobyl '86 =A0 =A0 Windows '95 - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #766 *************************