From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Mar 10 16:41:32 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 769 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: And another thing... fsj: Re: What do you think about this? Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! Re: fsj: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) fsj: Re: Wagoneer fsj: 77 fo' sale Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! fsj: double check prices Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! fsj: Re: jeep parts FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 19:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: RE: fsj: And another thing... A: AFAIK, it's the same for '83/84. Anyone know different? (underhood). (the wiring diagram for the '84 GW matches my '83 Cherokee) Did you cut the head off the bolt and knock it upwards like I suggested? (Whole lot easier!) Bob=A0Bradfield wrote: IF it will work on my 83 Wag Ltd... Send that bad boy! Let me know where to send payment. I've cut the hole in my floor.... (sorry, had a tear) and, shore nuff, the once welded nut had popped loose. What a MOTHER to get that bad boy outta there. I cursed in languages I don't even know. - -----Original Message----- A: I thought so! I got the factory wiring diagram for Elmo from Dyement for $8 and shipping. I have a photocopy of it that was given to me by Tom Collins of the "other" list a year ago when I went through the same s#!t. BTW, it's duct tape, not elec tape! I have a V8 harness from the '84 GW for $30 if anyone is interested. I was going to modify it for Elmo (V8-6cyl) but since I'm going EFI or Nat gas, it won't matter! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:09:48 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: What do you think about this? I'll comment on price/time through message... At 09:10 PM 3/9/00 EST, RKH911-at-aol.com wrote: >Took my 85 Grand Wagoneer to BigO cuz of the squeeking I was hearing (U >Joints) and they went thru it pretty thoroughly..Heres what they found and >what they want to fix it....Help is needed cuz I love my Jeep and I'll get it >done anyway. >"Re line Brake shoes" (Whatever that is)(Needs Pads, etc) ......$54.00 a little high... call a NAPA and get the prices... if within 15%, live with it. >2 Wheel Cylinders (RR)......$99.00 seems out of line. My guess is they shouldn't be that much, again, verify with NAPA. >1 Cleaner (Cost of materials)....$6.00 this seems to be the latest "tax". You can buy a can of brake cleaner for $3.00 and do several brake jobs with it. The problem is this is imposed because of EPA /local emissions stuff... >Brake Fluid (Dot 3).....$5.00 about $2.00 more than you can buy it for. >Tranny Mount (Broken)....$29.00 I can't remember what my last one cost... ranges from $15 to $30 typically >3 U Joints (Needed desperately - bout 1/4 - 1/2" play)....$60.00 $20 each? if these are good ones, ok... check with the Dealer, NAPA and CarQuest >4 Belts (Cracking)....$60.00 believe it or not this sounds realistic. jobber price at the dealer for three belts for my 83 J10 came to $54. I wholesaled some Daycos from another distributer and paid $27. That's below jobber pricing. Retail was more like $70 from the dealer! >LABOR TO INSTALL: >Install Brake shoes (The lil diaphram was leaking too and needs >replaced)....$99.00 what's their hourly rate? Let's assume $50 for arguement sake. They're claiming two hours? A good wrench will be able to do a set of brakes in about 1.5 hrs. >Install Wheel Cylinders (RF,RR)....$60.00 oh, you mean they want to charge you about an hour's labor to undo two brake lines and 4 bolts? :) >Install Tranny Mount....$71.50 If the guy has a lift and half a brain he can do this in about 15 minutes... 30 minutes if he doesn't use power tools. I can do one of these things in less than a half hour laying in gravel without even lifting my jeep... This should be no more than $30. >Install 3 U Joints.......$120.00 1 of these joints isn't too bad, the double cardan requires a little bit of effort. However, if they guy has a decent shop and a press he could bang this out in less than an hour. I forgot how long it took me to do my last one, but it was less than 2 hours... working on gravel, with a cluttered bench, no press and in poor lighting... outside... I'd say a fair estimate could be determined from the flat rate manual. R&R of the driveshaft and U-joints could take 2 hours according to the manual... realistic time, about an hour for an experienced wrench. >Install Belts...$75.00 I remember the days when folks would pull into my gas station, I'd check under the hood, fluids, etc. find a loose belt, have them nose into the bay and I'd swap it out for 'em in 15 to 20 minutes... while waiting on the pumps at the same time... and we wouldn't charge folks for it either!!! Sure, that was a long time ago... but I wasn't an experienced mechanic then either... I was just a high school kid working part time under the guidance of an old, crusty, salty, overweight mechanic... ;) > >Roughly $750.00 plus the tires they want to get outta me... Well... I just paid $800 to have a mechanic do a halfmast job too... He replaced one wheel bearing, the fuel pump, the rear main seal, front seal, welded my seat and bled the brakes... with no improvement of the brake feel... plus he had my car for over two weeks... arghhh... I could have poured the slab for my garage... Well, at least it convinced my wife that we should build a garage. That and the fact that I've started looking at other houses... She got the idea. And she doesn't want to move... so, I will hopefully find my blueprints for my garage and start building this summer... Then you can come over Rob and I'll talk ya through the repairs... ;) >K Guys and Gals, everytime I try and fix my Jeep I spend twice what I should >cuz I am not a great Mechanic...I want to fix all that needs fixing on my >Jeep and thensome but I have no idea whats fair or whats not. Get some estimates. Remember I have ONE RULE when recommending repairs: AVOID FRANCHISES. Big O is a franchise, but probably not one that is as bad as Midas or Goodyear or Sears. Get a second opinion. I'd also recommend BFG or Michelin's instead of Big 0's. ;) >Your advice is always appreciated...Sorry to ramble.. Hey, man, that's what we're here for!!! I'm sure a few others will add to this and help MANY others out. I hate to see people get ripped off. Bottom line, the estimates from Big O are not terribly out of line and would probably be about 2/3 of what you'd pay at the dealer... Check it out... Get a quote from the local Jeep dealer, call a firestone, goodyear, sears, and whatever else is in your area... make a little table and share it with us... better yet, put it in Excel and email your quotes to me along with your geographical locale and I'll make a web page out of it to show the price variations, IN ADDITION, I'll take your list and get the flat rate estimates. So, do your homework assignment, and who knows, in doing your work you might find a little hole in the wall shop that will save you a ton of money and actually do it right. They are out there... Wish you the best, john > >Rob Harrison >85 Grand Wagoneer - ---------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... Real FREEDOM comes through knowing Jesus http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE/ - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:23:11 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! We need someone to check out this vehicle. Subject: fsj: 91 Grand with 27k http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=277526960 At 08:47 PM 3/9/00 -0600, Mike Dillon wrote: >In this part of the country, it's not the miles it is the >rust that kills stuff, is there anyone in the Chicago area >that can give the list a first hand look it the Wagoneer ?? >>Mike I used to live a few miles from North Barrington! I agree, things rust there just sitting... It's a travesty. :) And also why I live in the Pacific Northwest... (where Jeeps don't rust, they mold) I'll cc this to a few friends in the area, and will send it to the XJ and Diesel-Benz lists as there are two or three subscribers in that general area... Hey, fellow listers, ya want to help us out a bit? This Grand Wagoneer looks beautiful... We have two questions... well, WE have one, and I have one... the issue is, RUST??? my question is, does it have a sunroof? If it does I may actually talk to the wife about it... She misses Old Blue... (she hates Superdawg... (I don't....) :) I've blind copied everyone... I'll make sure the info gets back to the FSJ list... thanx, john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 06:46:35 -0500 From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: FSJ Atrocities (steering fluid leak) john said: {- The hoses are the weak link... about $18 a piece... I'd {- try the hoses first... Wow, I'll have to see if my replacements can take the heat this summer. We only paid $2-3 for the plumbing hose, it's worked great so far, and you get to cut it to exactly the length you want. (We started with about 3' -- we had the old one in there when we got it, so don't think we even had to cut it more when we got home.) Ask me again around September... :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:56:13 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Wagoneer At 09:52 PM 3/9/00 -0800, Nigel wrote: >Hi John, > >....Enjoy your site! I just bought a 1988 Grand Wagoneer, got a killer >deal for the amazing condition it is in, but I need to find an original >"cargo cover" for the back. You seem to be an expert, any suggestions? > >Thank you. > >Nigel that's a challenging item to find... you might try a dealer, sometimes you'll luck out. otherwise you have to try your luck with the wrecking yards... that's one of the first things to find a new home. :) john ============================================================================ ========== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ============================================================================ ========== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/john/book-info.html http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ============================================================================ ========== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 22:37:19 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: 77 fo' sale This sure sounds like my old 77... sold it to Chip. :) He's moving and doesn't have place for it... Tell 'em john sent you. If this is my old 77 it has a NEW carb, new windshield, decent tires and a bunch of other stuff... john Chip wrote: > 360 > Quadra track > 400 trans > Great body > good paint > Runs great > Needs: > Dash cluster reinstalled (have parts) > Steering column installed (have parts) > Kick down cable installed > > After those small things this would be a great truck. > > Sell for $1200 cash or trade for something more portable. > Need furniture, computer stuff. What have you. > Chip > 206-284-4400 > 425-881-0373 - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:17:28 -0600 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! If that's the one in Barrington (?sp), I am in the area and I will have some time this weekend. If I wasn't in the process of buying a house, I would be interested..... Have you emailed the people selling it for more info? Do you have an address on it? What info/photos would you like on it? Later, Jamie Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Mike Dillon cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k owner-fsj-at-dig miles! est.net 03/09/2000 08:47 PM Please respond to Mike Dillon In this part of the country, it's not the miles it is the rust that kills stuff, is there anyone in the Chicago area that can give the list a first hand look it the Wagoneer ?? Mike Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:28:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! A: But where is the link? It ain't a 6 cyl, so I'm not interested! Elmo doesn't have the extra number, and neither did the '84 GW! John wrote: you know that's a verifiable clock reading too... I think 83 and up had the extra odometer reading to see if it rolled past 100k... I'm pretty sure superdawg has a 1 to the far left. Anybody know when they changed? My 81 didn't have it. Since my J10 is an 83 and it has it, I'd guess the wAgoeners had it in at least 83, more likely 82, since the J10s were a year or two behind... 10k isn't bad if it's got a sunroof and no rust... ;) =A0 what color? Maybe I'll get it... that's bring me up to what? (I have to look to see what number FSJ that would make and what # vehicle I've owned... ;) john At 08:30 PM 3/7/00 -0800, Clark Novak wrote: Check this out... a 91 GW in an estate sale with 27k on the clock. Of course, they want $10,000 opening bid for it, but if anyone really wanted a "new" Wagoneer... Geez, if I sold The Judge, my '67 LeMans and my wife's jewellery... :) Clark Novak 87 G ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 08:49:07 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Wayland Subject: fsj: double check prices Rob Those prices dont seem to be all that high, but the grand total of $750 has some sticker shock. There is just a lotta work to be done. When I moved to the Tampa Bay area this year I had my A/C fixed. The first shop told me over $600 worth of repairs were needed. I took it a few hundred yards down the road where an older guy checked it out said my system was in great shape just had a loose fitting and in need of a little freon. Total bill=$79.00! Nine months later still ices me out. Best advise is to have several opinions first. Good Luck Terry _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 10:54:01 -0600 (CST) From: Mike Dillon Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! Hi Jamie, I have not got a hold of the guy, I assume it is an estate sale and he may or may not know much about it. I am out of the country, this comming week, so the timming of me bidding on it does not work out :( , but if it is as nice as it looks from the one picture it could be a good buy at $10-$12K. Here is a list of stuff I would look at if I was going to go after it: I think the biggest worrry is RUST , do all the seams look clean (bottom of doors, tailgate, support channels under the floor) is the gas-tank skid plate/frame rail clean, open up the hatch by the rear wheel well and examine the inner rear quarter for signs of rust, examine the seams along the front inner fenders and rockers for rust stains. Has it ever been painted, paint can hide a number sins that are hard to find, so I pass on repainted cars, does all the electric stuff work ? does it look like it has been serviced ? pull the dip stick and see what the oil looks like, open the radiator and see what the coolent and rad tubes look like, take a quick look at the front rotors to see if there are groved (Just peek though the spokes on the rims) pull the trans dip stick does it look nice and pink ? examine interior for signs of wear/ abuse. Examine the area around the battery tray if it was left sitting there is a good chance at one time of another a batter may have frozen and spilled acid. I would expect to find a few defects and would expect that it needs a full service including plugs-wires hoses belts a new battery and maybe brakes. Mike D. > From Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Fri Mar 10 08:21 CST 2000 > Status: RO > > > If that's the one in Barrington (?sp), I am in the area and I will have > some time this weekend. > > If I wasn't in the process of buying a house, I would be interested..... > > Have you emailed the people selling it for more info? > > Do you have an address on it? > > What info/photos would you like on it? > > > Later, > Jamie Phillips > > '73 J4600 > '77 F250 > > home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com > work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com > > > > > Mike Dillon > om> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k > owner-fsj-at-dig miles! > est.net > > > 03/09/2000 > 08:47 PM > Please > respond to > Mike Dillon > > > > > > > > > In this part of the country, it's not the miles it is the > rust that kills stuff, is there anyone in the Chicago area > that can give the list a first hand look it the Wagoneer ?? > > Mike > > > > Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:28:07 -0800 (PST) > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) > Subject: Re: fsj: '91 Grand with 27k miles! > > A: But where is the link? It ain't a 6 cyl, so I'm not interested! > Elmo doesn't have the extra number, and neither did the '84 GW! > > John wrote: > you know that's a verifiable clock reading too... I think 83 and up had > the extra odometer reading to see if it rolled past 100k... I'm pretty > sure superdawg has a 1 to the far left. > Anybody know when they changed? My 81 didn't have it. Since my J10 is an > 83 and it has it, I'd guess the wAgoeners had it in at least 83, more > likely 82, since the J10s were a year or two behind... > 10k isn't bad if it's got a sunroof and no rust... ;) =A0 what color? > Maybe I'll get it... that's bring me up to what? (I have to look to see > what number FSJ that would make and what # vehicle I've owned... ;) > john > At 08:30 PM 3/7/00 -0800, Clark Novak wrote: > Check this out... a 91 GW in an estate sale with 27k on the clock. Of > course, they want $10,000 opening bid for it, but if anyone really > wanted a "new" Wagoneer... Geez, if I sold The Judge, my '67 LeMans and > my wife's jewellery... :) > Clark Novak > 87 G > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:21:18 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: jeep parts the low humming sound above 55mph is probably the transmission mount and / or dampener off to the left side of the tranny... john At 11:42 AM 3/10/00 +0100, Moorman wrote: > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: john >Aan: Moorman >Datum: vrijdag 10 maart 2000 2:11 >Onderwerp: Re: jeep parts > > >>the chrome strip must be catching wind, or something else is wrong, >>shouldn't make noise, sure it's not the vent window or one of the windows? > >I have to renew all the weater strips of both the drivers and passengers >side doors, so I'll see if that helps. Also the window on the passengers >side sometimes goes down a bit on one side, so I'll have to look into that >also. When I drive the wagoneer any faster than 55 mph I also get a very low >humming sound that seems to come from underneath the car. Any suggestions >on that? I heard wagoneers often have problems with the drive train. > > >Robert >> >>john >> >>At 08:15 PM 3/9/00 +0100, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>I've been to Amsterdam several times, kind of a dirty city. >>> >>>That hasn't changed...but the rest of holland is nice. >>> >>>>I'm living northeast of Seattle, near Everett, in Washington state, up >>>>in the Pacific Northwest. :) Where jeeps don't rust, they mold. :) >>>> >>>Same as here... I have to get weather strips soon, otherwise the jeep will >>>also mold... I'm having a look at the rear window electric stuff tomorrow. >>>You're probably right about the rear window weather strip. Since it's not >in >>>great shape anymore (all the rubber parts dried out, it's a car from >>>florida) I guess the wiring got wet, so I'll look into that. >>> >>>>I think you're right that it would be cheaper to buy an entire jeep and >>>>ship it than to ship parts... :) >>> >>> >>>I'll probably do that. They're becoming hard to find, though. I tried >>>finding one last year when I was in L.A., but couldn't find one. Would a >>>early 80's wagoneer also do? I heard the wagoneer didn't change that much >>>over the years, and then I would have newer parts. >>> >>>I just got my wagoneer a couple of months ago, and one thing that struck >me >>>was that there is so much noise coming from the windshield. The weather >>>strips seems to be o.k., I once saw a wagoneer with a kind of plastic >cover >>>on the top of the windshield, but I guess that would be more of a >protection >>>against the sun, than a way to get less noise from the windshield. Any >>>suggestions? >>> >>>thanks, >>> >>>Robert >>> >>> >>----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>----------------------------------------------------- > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #769 *************************