From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Mar 10 21:18:24 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, March 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 771 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: U-joints Re: fsj: Re: jeep parts Re: fsj: lifetime warranties... e: fsj: Jeep tours! Re: [fsj: U-joints] RE: fsj: Re: jeep parts fsj: Re: jeep parts Re: [e: fsj: Jeep tours!] Re: [fsj: U-joints] fsj: Re: jeep parts fsj: 401 for sale fsj: Signing off soon fsj: the horn test... fsj: Re: headers fsj: Another FSJ toy on E-Bay fsj: Stump The Wrench FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 12:24:02 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: U-joints A: I agree! Why spend a lifetime replacing the dang part? That's why I rebuild my own starters and alternators (usually only need to do that once when I do it myself, especially after I discovered about ammeter short outs destroying them!) Brad wrote: Lifetime warrenty does not mean it is a better part. - -brad ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:52:18 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: jeep parts At 09:09 PM 3/10/00 +0100, Moorman wrote: > >It's a 1971 wagoneer. Or did I just spoil our gameshow...At least you guys >can try to geuss what tranny it has! I checked the wagoneer in a pit, and >the I saw 'general motors' on the motor, and 'hydramatic' on the tranny, so >it looks like one of the previous owners put a buick engine in there. Or did >they put GM motors in the 1971 jeeps? > >Robert well... it's like this... Jeep tended to use left over stuff past when it said it was using it... AND, export models are even more different... at least we're pretty sure that's a TH400. :) john ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 ============================================================= john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/ http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:54:20 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: lifetime warranties... >Brad wrote: >Lifetime warrenty does not mean it is a better part. >-brad not only that, but after the third or fourth replacement of the same flippin' part, most parts stores just give you your money back... I've had this happen with alternators, starters and a few other parts... Pay more for quality... but don't pay more. john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:34:00 -0600 From: Dan Black Subject: e: fsj: Jeep tours! Clark Novak said: {- There's been a lot of companies that do "Jeep Tours" in the western states, {- but I've never run across one that does 'em in FSJs! I just found this {- company called "Fun Time Jeep Tours" in Salida, Colorado, that does tours of {- the old mining towns and stuff... and they do it in Grand Wags! Check out {- the page... http://www.coloradovacation.com/tours/fun/page2.html {- I wonder if I could talk the wife into vacation on the Front Range this {- year? :) Very cool -- and I can vouch for the area. I've been through Salida many times (and Poncha Springs -- don't remember if Buena Vista was one we went to or not), often on the way to Crestone, and to go white water rafting a couple times. It's at the north end of the San Luis valley, in the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. Gorgeous country. (And, BTW, if you ever get a chance to go hot air ballooning in the valley, take it!) And in fact, my own FSJ went through there last summer, and my '84 (now Bruce's) went there a few years back -- even handled trails with TWO broken motor mounts! (We figured out the problem while we were there, so got them fixed when we got back, and later replaced the radiator with a brand new one due to the fan blade torquing into it...) Anyway, the Great Sand Dunes are also about two hours south (an hour to Crestone, another hour to the Sand Dunes), down near Alamosa. There really is a wide variety of minerals in the ground in that area. There were many different kinds of mining, and it's the copper in the mountains that give the Sangre de Cristos their name -- often at sunset, the sun reflects of the copper, and the mountains turn a brilliant rusty red. ("Sangre de Cristo" is "Blood of Christ"). I don't know anything about "Fun Time Jeep Tours," and don't even know how much they're charging, but it's probably fairly reasonable, and would most likely be a fun family trip. Salida is probably around 7,300' (between 7K' and 8K', anyway), though the tours will undoubtedly go up higher, most likely in the 9-10K' range. I very well may check it out myself next time I go out there. :) Definitely take a camera... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Doughnuts will get you through times with no money better than money will get you through times with no doughnuts. -- http://www.elliskaiser.com/doughnuts/philosophy.html - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 00 15:37:14 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: U-joints] john wrote: > and count the bearings and look at the specs... I've done the cheaper > U-joints and had them wear out very, very soon. Do NOT go cheap on th= e > U-joints. I typically pay the dealer for the U-joints... it's not wort= h > the hassle of redoing them. Trust me... You're better off spending > $10 or MORE for the BEST quality u-joints you can find.... You're totally right. Sorry for the bad advice. I had been planning to = go with spicer next time I do u-joints (soon), if I can figure out where to = get them. For all the four-wheeling I do, it only makes sense. So I take ba= ck anything I said that would encourage folks to get cheap u-joints. My bad= ! What was my original point... err... oh, I think Big-O was probably overcharging for the u-joints in question. So to kind of try to dig myself out here... if the Big-O u-joints are low-quality and overpriced AND don't have a lifetime warranty, then the r= esult is you pay a fortune to have crappy u-joints put in on a frequent basis. If instead you have a good shop put in very good u-joints you probably wi= ll pay less initially in parts+labor and certainly less over the long haul a= s they'll last longer. If you do u-joints yourself--as someone said to me recently--"lifetime warranty" usually means a lifetime of replacing them frequently. :) Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:41:09 -0800 From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: jeep parts At 03:11 PM 3/10/00 -0700, Gaylon Holmes wrote: >I have a 1971 Wagoneer, 57K on the odo, with a factory Buick 350. Number >four is down to 75 psi so I'll be pulling the heads next week. Just >starting a 5" lift on it, as well. Never lifted a FSJ so it's off on a new >adventure! I thought they quit installing the Buick 350's in 70... hmmm... lifting an FSJ is pretty easy... >Someone recently told me that "Jeep" stands for "just everybody else's >parts". Hmmm.... > >-Holmes > > >> At 09:09 PM 3/10/00 +0100, Moorman wrote: >> > >> >It's a 1971 wagoneer. Or did I just spoil our gameshow...At >> least you guys >> >can try to geuss what tranny it has! I checked the wagoneer in a pit, and >> >the I saw 'general motors' on the motor, and 'hydramatic' on the >> tranny, so >> >it looks like one of the previous owners put a buick engine in >> there. Or did >> >they put GM motors in the 1971 jeeps? >> > >> >Robert >> >> well... it's like this... Jeep tended to use left over stuff past when >> it said it was using it... AND, export models are even more different... >> >> at least we're pretty sure that's a TH400. :) >> >> john >> > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:37:38 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: jeep parts At 08:34 PM 3/10/00 +0100, Moorman wrote: > >-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >Van: john >Aan: Moorman >CC: fsj-at-digest.net >Datum: vrijdag 10 maart 2000 18:21 >Onderwerp: Re: jeep parts > > >> >>the low humming sound above 55mph is probably the transmission mount and / >or >>dampener off to the left side of the tranny... > >How do I repair that? Anything on your website about that? I noticed that >the sound doesn't go away when I go faster that 55 mph. It get audible at >50, and gets louder up until 60. Over 60 the humming remains. could be u-joints, bearings... the dampner thing even... > >Today I saw some very nice wheels on an chevy blazer. Would those fit? The >guy from the scrapyard couldn't tell. not on a 71. A 71 uses a 5 bolt pattern, I think it might match the fords... not sure. If you're wheels were 6 bolt, then yes the blazer would work. >I also found a switch for the backdoor window in a chevy caprice estate. I >hope that switch works with the jeep. anything can be made to work... if you try hard enough. :) >After that I'm going to start renewing all the weather strips, and do >something about the passengers door (the window slightly goes down on one >side, it's loose, I can move it up and down with my hand), so at least there >is no water pouring into the car. > >Thanks for your help so far! you're welcome. :) john >Robert > > >> >>john >> >>At 11:42 AM 3/10/00 +0100, Moorman wrote: >>> >>>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>>Van: john >>>Aan: Moorman >>>Datum: vrijdag 10 maart 2000 2:11 >>>Onderwerp: Re: jeep parts >>> >>> >>>>the chrome strip must be catching wind, or something else is wrong, >>>>shouldn't make noise, sure it's not the vent window or one of the >windows? >>> >>>I have to renew all the weater strips of both the drivers and passengers >>>side doors, so I'll see if that helps. Also the window on the passengers >>>side sometimes goes down a bit on one side, so I'll have to look into that >>>also. When I drive the wagoneer any faster than 55 mph I also get a very >low >>>humming sound that seems to come from underneath the car. Any suggestions >>>on that? I heard wagoneers often have problems with the drive train. >>> >>> >>>Robert >>>> >>>>john >>>> >>>>At 08:15 PM 3/9/00 +0100, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I've been to Amsterdam several times, kind of a dirty city. >>>>> >>>>>That hasn't changed...but the rest of holland is nice. >>>>> >>>>>>I'm living northeast of Seattle, near Everett, in Washington state, up >>>>>>in the Pacific Northwest. :) Where jeeps don't rust, they mold. :) >>>>>> >>>>>Same as here... I have to get weather strips soon, otherwise the jeep >will >>>>>also mold... I'm having a look at the rear window electric stuff >tomorrow. >>>>>You're probably right about the rear window weather strip. Since it's >not >>>in >>>>>great shape anymore (all the rubber parts dried out, it's a car from >>>>>florida) I guess the wiring got wet, so I'll look into that. >>>>> >>>>>>I think you're right that it would be cheaper to buy an entire jeep and >>>>>>ship it than to ship parts... :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I'll probably do that. They're becoming hard to find, though. I tried >>>>>finding one last year when I was in L.A., but couldn't find one. Would a >>>>>early 80's wagoneer also do? I heard the wagoneer didn't change that >much >>>>>over the years, and then I would have newer parts. >>>>> >>>>>I just got my wagoneer a couple of months ago, and one thing that struck >>>me >>>>>was that there is so much noise coming from the windshield. The weather >>>>>strips seems to be o.k., I once saw a wagoneer with a kind of plastic >>>cover >>>>>on the top of the windshield, but I guess that would be more of a >>>protection >>>>>against the sun, than a way to get less noise from the windshield. Any >>>>>suggestions? >>>>> >>>>>thanks, >>>>> >>>>>Robert >>>>> >>>>> >>>>----------------------------------------------------- >>>> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >>>> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >>>> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>>>----------------------------------------------------- >>> >>----------------------------------------------------- >> john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >>----------------------------------------------------- >> > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 00 15:43:34 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [e: fsj: Jeep tours!] Dan Black wrote: > {- company called "Fun Time Jeep Tours" in Salida, Colorado, that does = > > Very cool -- and I can vouch for the area. I've been through Salida > many times (and Poncha Springs -- don't remember if Buena Vista was one= >... Hey, if any of you are ever in Colorado, give me a shout---those of us in= the Colorado FSJ Assoc. would love to hook up with you for a trail ride, or e= ven just a breakfast or dinner meeting. Also of note, there's a Jeep tour in Ouray that uses at least one J-truck= (tho the rest are new Dodges I believe). > ... Anyway, the > Great Sand Dunes are also about two hours south (an hour to Crestone, > another hour to the Sand Dunes), down near Alamosa. And there's a great trail leading to them from the 'back side' called Med= ano Pass trail. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 14:47:47 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: [fsj: U-joints] At 03:37 PM 3/10/00 MST, Michael Shimniok wrote: >What was my original point... err... oh, I think Big-O was probably >overcharging for the u-joints in question. agreed. I like your comments about avoiding franchises... although franchises like Big O, Les Schwab and so on seem to be a little bit better than the bigger nationwide ones like goodyear, sears and firestone, or even worse is midas, aamco, and so on... I think the dealer handles spicer... most off-road shops would too... and most NAPAs would be able to get 'em... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:56:27 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: jeep parts In a message dated 3/10/2000 12:20:10 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Robert wrote: > >It's a 1971 wagoneer with a 360 engine. It has automatic transmission, > 3 speed. It says 'hydramatic' on the cover. That's all I know about it > right now. (snip) > >It becomes audible at about 50 mph. Its a deep humming sound that makes > the whole car vibrate (so it's nothing small). Its not ongoing, but more > pulsating, it gets softer and louder in a rate of about 60 cycles a > minute. > It goes on when I take my foot from the > gas, and it's not there when the jeep is idling. It seems to be only in > the third gear. but maybe the humming is just not audible at lower > speeds. When I got the jeep the transmission oil was pretty low (It > leaks a bit). So it could be that the transmission is damaged, but it > shifts o.k.. I'm very familiar with this problem. It used to drive me crazy. The faster I drove (above about 60 mph) the louder it got. At 70 mph it would hit a resonant frequency that got my ear drums dancing. Eventually I decided that I was just driving faster than the vehicle was designed for - from the standpoint of drivetrain RPM. It may have to do with the Dana 20 transfer case. Anyway, I tried everything and basically had very little luck - except to slow down. I discovered that my speedometer reads 10% low with 235R15 tires. That slowed me down a bit and helped with the noise in a round about way. I bought new rims and tires (for winter use) but only got minimal improvement. New rear wheel bearings also made only a very slight difference even though they were extremely bad. Rebuilding the front axle (except ring and pinion) had no affect either. After I do an axle swap, I'll go from the stock 3.31 gears to 3.07s and hope that will take care of it. I know a guy who swapped to a Quadra-trac transfer case to eliminate the problem (SuperKen for those who know him). It worked, but his drivetrain was pretty non-stock anyway. One thing to check is the "u joint" on the rear drive shaft. In '71 Jeep used a ball and trunion type joint with a rubber boot over it. They are problematic, expensive to replace ($53?), and are best dealt with by replacing them with standard Spicer cross-type u-joint. Slight driveshaft modification is required and cost me $200 to have done with used u-joint yokes. I don't know how that cost might compare for you. If you are lucky, some PO (previous owner) has already taken care of this for you. Earlier you mentioned getting an '80ish Wagoneer as a parts truck. You'd probably be happier with something a little older, depending on what kind of parts you want. The '71 had most of the desirable modern parts anyway - except fancy electrical doo-dads. A '72 should be basically identical to your '71. A '73 will have a Quadra-trac transfer case and updated dash, but otherwise be similar to the '71. A '74 - '76 would be best if you want to upgrade drivetrain parts with minimal hassle. A '77 - '79 would be a little more work. If you really only care about the interior, then the newer the better. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:20:33 From: Saltsgavers Subject: fsj: 401 for sale Ran into a guy the other night who knows I'm into jeeps. His brother has a '78 wagoneer with a rebuilt 401 in it for sale. He told me it could be driven home for 600 bucks. If I didn't already have a yard full & in the process of moving, I'd be interested. If anyone is interested, let me know & I'll check it out. I think I've seen the rig before & if I remember correctly, it probably has a little tailgate rust & rear quarter rust (no big holes that I remember). I seem to recall it had a bench seat too. Mike S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:24:56 From: Saltsgavers Subject: fsj: Signing off soon Now that our move to the farm is drawing near, I'll be signing off in a few days for a while. The new place is in a different telephone service district, so all my internet stuff will change. I'll see ya all when the dust settles. Anyone still on the big list, let the guys know I haven't fallen off the face of the earth. BTW, is Zack H. still a player, or has school taken total control of his life? I didn't get to go to Pennsylvania last month for our stude swap meet, so didn't get to see him. Mike S. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:38:50 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: the horn test... every day I drive by the Everett Boeing facilities and get to test my horn. :) I've stopped and talked with some of my former co-workers... surprisingly they seem to be enjoying themselves... Hard for me to understand going that long without pay... ESPECIALLY as a SPEEA employee... One IAM member (the factory union) referred to speea as "the society for the prevention of electrical engineering advancement". http://wagoneers.com/pages/History/boeing-strike-evt-engring-towers-march-20 00.jpg THE NEWS ITEM: =============== Boeing Strikers Mark One Month Boeing engineers and technical workers were celebrating the one month anniversary of their strike against the aerospace giant yesterday. But striking SPEEA workers like Thomas Martin says the bigger celebration is over the fact that Boeing is having trouble delivering airplanes. Martin says jets are parked everywhere. Fifteen planesthat should have gone off the assembly line last month have been delayed because they haven't been inspected by engineers and technical workers who are on the picket line. Boeing spokesman Peter Conte admits there is a problem. There is still no progress in getting both sides back to the bargaining table. - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:18:28 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: headers I did headers once... on a Chevy 350... never again. Noisy, the bolts work loose, they're a pain to install and the engine compartment seems hotter... :) john At 08:13 PM 3/10/00 EST, Bjersr5-at-cs.com wrote: >I won't keep you long. Have you or anyone on the list ever installed a set of >headers on a fsj. I have totally de-smog it. so thing are pretty open. It >doesn't look all that difficult but i'm just looking for any helpful hints. >I'm going to use the stock 2.5 Y pipe and as soon as possible after it go up >to 3in. I've got a 3 chamber flowmaster (3in inlet and outlet) to go on it. I >plan on leaving the cat off until inspection time. > >Thanks Barry > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:24:01 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Another FSJ toy on E-Bay Biddster.com notified me of another FSJ toy on E-Bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D278439723 Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 10-Mar-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 19:25:07 -0800 From: Ed Pedersen Subject: fsj: Stump The Wrench >At 10:08 AM 3/10/00 -0800, James Blair wrote: >>(John forgot to add what year your Jeep was! :^) > >john didn't forget, john doesn't know either, what, you think >I'd withhold information? :) I guess it would make it more >challenging that way wouldn't it... kind of like a game show... >guess we could call it "stump the wrench..." > >john >----------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > If you "Stump The Wrench", do you win dinner for two at "Il Guardia's on the Pier"? ( alluding to John's Q a day or so back about missing Johnny Carson) Ed Pedersen Vancouver Canada ICQ 23536957 ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #771 *************************