From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Mar 17 15:55:42 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, March 17 2000 Volume 01 : Number 779 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: donut gasket on 89 360 fsj: Re: superdawg gets 14 mpg fsj: Bob' leaky gear fsj: RE: Bob' leaky gear fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #778 fsj: Re: Bob' leaky gear fsj: what to do... fsj: re: big, ugly and american fsj: Re: Re: superdawg gets 14 mpg fsj: Re: re: big, ugly and american fsj: that auction ended... Re: fsj: Re: Re: superdawg gets 14 mpg Re: fsj: Re: re: big, ugly and american fsj: FWD: Questions for the lists fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #778 fsj: Carnuk...360 heads still available? Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #778 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:38:47 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: donut gasket on 89 360 Clark Novak writes: >> I just looked it up in my Service Manual, and the factory just says "replace it." But I'm not sure if this is the trouble or not... Have= to make sure first, << It's been a long time since I had to deal with the heat riser valve on my Chero. but, I seem to remember there was a donut gasket in the manifol= d, heat riser and exhaust pipe sandwich somewhere. It's true one connection = (I think the manifold end) has a permanent donut flange but, I think the oth= er one between the exhaust pipe and bottom of the heat riser valve had a regular asbestos like donut gasket. Of course, I don't have a heat riser on the Chero. I still have one on the WAg. however. I used to have trouble with the Chero's heat riser leaking, or worse, cracking; every time I towed a trailer a significant distance. Tow a trailer and replace, realign, etc. every time. I finally talked an exhaust shop into removing the thing completely. After changing= the manifold gaskets on the driver's side, I've never had an exhaust leak= in front of, or just below, the fire wall since. That occurred in about 1988 and I installed the Doug Thorley headers in about 1994. It's been ve= ry quiet up front for 12 years now thank you very much...knock on wood. Well= except for an occasional lifter which refuses to pump-up after cold start= but, that's a different story. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 16-Mar-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:15:20 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: superdawg gets 14 mpg yeah, but the carb I'm running could power a bigger V8 than yours! ;) john At 10:08 PM 3/16/00 -0500, Ray Drouillard wrote: >> tanked up last night... made a 6% adjustment for tire size... 14.08! >> So two things are the likely suspect, no three things. 1) regapped >> to 0.039, 2) drove on the freeway to Puyallup and 3) use of mexican >> and normal overdrive whenever possible... > >I get 14.4 with a rip-snortin' V8. > >Ray > > - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:43:10 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Bob' leaky gear In a message dated 3/16/2000 5:24:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:10:01 -0600 > From: "Bob Bradfield" > > Ok, I've replaced both PS hoses and the thing continues to leak. After a > through cleaning and reinspection, it appears to be leaking from the very > front of the steering gear, where the knuckle comes out and connects to the > shaft. I suspect it was run dry for a long time. Would this cause the > front gasket to dry up and crack? John had mentioned that it is repairable > but, it's a pain... Replacement is the answer. Rebuilds might be okay if you have a pro shop to work in. If you are mechanically inclined, you should replace it yourself. The last quote I got for having one done was $350 including the gear. I did it myself with a $200 steering gear from Schuck's. I think a good used one from the junkyard will run about $50. I just had another thought. I'm not sure where yours is leaking, but if it is where the steering column attaches then maybe you could just tighten up the collar-nut thingie. It's got slots in the perimeter. I think the standard procedure is to put a screwdriver in the slot and whack it with a hammer until it's tight. Running dry will overheat and ruin the pump, but shouldn't hurt the gear much. If the seals dry and crack, it's probably either from age or sitting idle for an extended period of time. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:44:36 -0600 From: "Bob Bradfield" Subject: fsj: RE: Bob' leaky gear Sounds good. It's the weirdest thing. Check it out: Only leaks when the engine is running PS Pump sounds good, no noise Sometimes when I shut off fluid foams out of the weep hole in the PS cap. I've checked fluid level hot,cold,tempid - whatever, it'll show exact. I'll try tightening it. Thanks, Ben. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > Brazzadog-at-aol.com > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 9:43 PM > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Bob' leaky gear > > > In a message dated 3/16/2000 5:24:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, > owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > > > Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:10:01 -0600 > > From: "Bob Bradfield" > > > > Ok, I've replaced both PS hoses and the thing continues to > leak. After a > > through cleaning and reinspection, it appears to be leaking > from the very > > front of the steering gear, where the knuckle comes out and > connects to the > > shaft. I suspect it was run dry for a long time. Would this cause the > > front gasket to dry up and crack? John had mentioned that it > is repairable > > but, it's a pain... > > Replacement is the answer. Rebuilds might be okay if you have a > pro shop to > work in. If you are mechanically inclined, you should replace it > yourself. > The last quote I got for having one done was $350 including the > gear. I did > it myself with a $200 steering gear from Schuck's. I think a > good used one > from the junkyard will run about $50. > > I just had another thought. I'm not sure where yours is leaking, > but if it > is where the steering column attaches then maybe you could just > tighten up > the collar-nut thingie. It's got slots in the perimeter. I think the > standard procedure is to put a screwdriver in the slot and whack > it with a > hammer until it's tight. > > Running dry will overheat and ruin the pump, but shouldn't hurt the gear > much. If the seals dry and crack, it's probably either from age > or sitting > idle for an extended period of time. > > Ben Williams > '71 Wagoneer > '78 F-250 4x4 > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 19:57:45 -0800 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #778 I must have missed a thread... what's the deal with the misaligned pipe? I crawled out and checked my heat riser valve yesterday and no way was that my trouble... moved freely and the spring was springy. So what is this other thing? Also, what's the bit about "both" throttle return springs? I've only ever noticed one... is there supposed to be a second? My Wag has had chronic carburetion trouble since I bought it. I had the 2150 rebuilt about a year ago and it was sweet, but it's been slowly reverting to its old ways for the past couple months, being hard to start, stalling when cold, etc. By the way, I totally agree with you about our Jeeps not being cut from a cookie cutter. There's nothing else on the road that looks, talks and walks like an FSJ. Like my wife says, "It's big, it's ugly, and it's American." Suits me to a tee. Clark > Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 16:04:07 -0600 > From: "Landon Tesar" > Subject: fsj: Lovin' the GW > > Hi, > > Thanks for identifying the connection between passenger exhaust manifold > and pipe as possibly misaligned, causing an exhaust leak. Mine is not > even close. Nearly flush on one side and 3/4" off on the other. Of > course, both nuts are frozen, so will be using penetrant and propane > torch. > Otherwise, I put both throttle return springs on the same side of the > throttle shaft axis, so I'm realizing a true throttle - that's nice. > Choke is adjusted and fixed, though now that the idle is an idle, fast > idle must be set. I think the choke just needs adjustment. > Cardan joint is lubed. > Replaced 'A' vacuum line. Put clamps on some of the bigger vacuum > hoses. > Changed the oil twice. Now it's clean. > > It is great to drive this thing. It didn't come out of an injection > mold machine like everything else out there. I fear no speed bumps. > Who else on the road is having this experience ? Absolutely unique. > There is a poster here showing how many Motorola processors and > controllers are in the new Grand Cherokee. I think I'll create a > similar one showing the same systems, but how they were managed ten > years ago. > > I still think the trucks are the coolest. > > - - Landon > '89 GW > Austin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 23:03:27 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Bob' leaky gear In a message dated 3/16/2000 7:50:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, bobbradfield-at-pdq.net writes: > Sounds good. It's the weirdest thing. Check it out: > Only leaks when the engine is running Well, that ought to limit the leak to the pressure side of the system - not that it helps. There are a couple valves that open inside the gear when you turn the wheel off center - one for left and one for right I think. If one of these is sticking shut, it would be really hard to turn the wheel to that side and might cause a marginal seal to leak. That doesn't really help either though. I think the answer is replacement. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:23:22 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: what to do... Superdawg either swallowed a penny or spit it out when I wasn't looking... Remember the plug that fell out of the egr port on the exhaust manifold that I'd plugged up with a penny, a washer and the tube? Well heading up a hill to today I heard that sound again... pulled over to make sure the pipe wasn't gonna fall off and discovered exhaust coming out of the pipe! So, the question is... where did the penny go? Did it melt and get forced out the pipe or did it melt and get sucked down and out the exhaust pipe??? I envisioned seeing a penny with a hole burnt in the middle... Oh well... I used a slug from an electrical box and put the pipe back in... Waiting for the carb from ebay... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:20:08 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: re: big, ugly and american At 07:57 PM 3/16/00 -0800, Clark Novak wrote: >By the way, I totally agree with you about our Jeeps not being cut from a >cookie cutter. There's nothing else on the road that looks, talks and walks >like an FSJ. Like my wife says, "It's big, it's ugly, and it's American." >Suits me to a tee. >Clark you know, that could be said about a lot of FSJ owners too... ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 20:26:22 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Re: superdawg gets 14 mpg At 11:19 PM 3/16/00 -0500, Ray Drouillard wrote: >So will my throttle body. > >Such a waste... a large carb feeding fuel to such a little asmatic engine. > > funny thing is that even though it's missin' two cylinders it performs better than Old Blue did... Even when Old Blue had the performer manifold and carb... ;) Those extra two cylinders must be for decoration or ballast... Once I get the correct size carb on superdawg I may not have v8 power to pass Old Blue... but I will pass something he wouldn't... a gas pump. ;) And, Ray, I'd like to say you're disqualified from commenting on fuel economy or performance... you paid more for your fuel system than some have for their FSJ's... ;) Henceforth you are only qualified to speak of pre-TBI days. ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ============================================================================== Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonald Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants. Michael Bacarella 3/15/2000 (as seen on http://www.slashdot.com ) ============================================================================ == ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:00:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: re: big, ugly and american At 11:48 PM 3/16/00 -0500, Ray Drouillard wrote: > you know, that could be said about a lot of FSJ owners too... ;) >> john > >two out of three for you? rofl... guess it depends on which way you measure... vertically or horizontally... ;) which reminds me of what my wife said before we married... she didn't want to marry someone short, fat and bald... ;) I'm not really that much overweight... I'm just a little undertall... What would my perfect height be for 175 lbs? Of course, among FSJ types I think I'm the runt of the litter... If it weren't for that box I have to stand on I'd never reach under the hood... john ==================================================================== If it exhibits ambulatory and auditory characteristics consistent with current data on a small waterfowl with flat bill, short neck and webbed feet, it would be illogical to assume that it is anything other than a duck. However, in this era of post-modern license with basic linguistic commodities, our view is only relative and if we say we know the truth, we will be labeled a hateful, narrow-minded, intolerant bigot. So a duck is only a duck when you embrace his world view, otherwise, it's just a bunch of funny looking parts. ==================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 21:43:00 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: that auction ended... the auction for the GW in Barrington, IL with 27K ended... sold for OVER $17,000!!! wow. john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:29:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: superdawg gets 14 mpg A: I think the other 2 cylinders are there for anchors! LOL! Ray paid a LOT more than I paid for Elmo! LOL! At 11:19 PM 3/16/00 -0500, Ray Drouillard wrote: So will my throttle body. Such a waste... a large carb feeding fuel to such a little asmatic engine. funny thing is that even though it's missin' two cylinders it performs better than Old Blue did... Even when Old Blue had the performer manifold and carb... ;) Those extra two cylinders must be for decoration or ballast... =A0 Once I get the correct size carb on superdawg I may not have v8 power to pass Old Blue... but I will pass something he wouldn't... a gas pump. ;) And, Ray, I'd like to say you're disqualified from commenting on fuel economy or performance... you paid more for your fuel system than some have for their FSJ's... ;) =A0 Henceforth you are only qualified to speak of pre-TBI days. ;) john - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:22:49 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: re: big, ugly and american A: It depends on your bone structure how tall you should be. At one point in time I was nearly a bone rack, and I was 185 lbs! (back when I weight lifted I could bench 350. I used to install Chev engines by hand. Nowadays, I'm 285 and fighting to keep from more going on, due to my messed up thyroid) At 11:48 PM 3/16/00 -0500, Ray Drouillard wrote: you know, that could be said about a lot of FSJ owners too... ;) john two out of three for you? rofl... guess it depends on which way you measure... vertically or horizontally... ;) which reminds me of what my wife said before we married... she didn't want to marry someone short, fat and bald... ;) I'm not really that much overweight... I'm just a little undertall... What would my perfect height be for 175 lbs? Of course, among FSJ types I think I'm the runt of the litter... If it weren't for that box I have to stand on I'd never reach under the hood... john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:55:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: FWD: Questions for the lists A: I got this from Bill. He'll probably join one or the other list, but email him direct for now. =A0=A0 Message From: bill55-at-pioneernet.net (Bill55) Date: Thu, Mar 16, 2000, 2:12pm (PST+3) To: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Questions for the list Hi Jim I got a couple of questions for you or you can post them on the list.=A0 I am not sure what address to use. =A0 l.=A0 I keep reading about poor gas milage with fsj.=A0 Well I had a 74 wag that gave me 14 mpg pulling a trailer.=A0 (14 footer)=A0 I had 245-15 tires.=A0 I didn't try to maintain the posted speed, I just let the jeep find a speed that it liked and this was going accross washington pass. =A0 2. SOA.=A0 I would like some pro and con on this.=A0 It will be on a 78 wag.=A0 Also, address for any links that may be=A0out there. =A0 3. Exhaust systems.=A0 In your opinion, what would be better, 2 1/2" duals or a single stack at 3"?=A0 =A0 Thanks for any info that you post. =A0 Bill55 78 wag (Pum Baa) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 09:21:38 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #778 The symptom I'm having that I would much rather attribute to an exhaust leak than valve clearance is a high frequency ringing that starts at about 50 mph - 2000 rpm? and continues to increase in frequency until it becomes a mush at about 70 mph. It is more pronounced on the throttle than off. My heat riser is fine as well, but the exhaust downpipe connection to the passenger side manifold is not clean, seems like a rush job when they put the engine back in. Also, I will replace the manifold to head gaskets, as the bolts were loose, and I'm concerned that the gasket is damaged - common practice with headers, but I don't know how likely this is with cast manifolds. My wag came from the PO with two return springs in place, one connected, one not. I'd seen that GM style is to have an internal and external spring - different return rates ? But there were two springs, so the first time I hooked the second one up, I put it on the high side of the - - what would you call it - throttle shaft bracket ? so that the two springs fought each other... that didn't work too well. I put both springs on the lower side, there are at least two holes to thread the other spring end to. It's a different truck today. Glad to answer a question for a change.... - - Landon ===================== Clark Novak wrote: > > I must have missed a thread... what's the deal with the misaligned pipe? I > crawled out and checked my heat riser valve yesterday and no way was that my > trouble... moved freely and the spring was springy. So what is this other > thing? > > Also, what's the bit about "both" throttle return springs? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:14:41 PST From: "John Bushnell" Subject: fsj: Carnuk...360 heads still available? James, A couple of months ago you were talking about having some access to 360 heads with roller rockers... can't remember anything more that that. I was wondering if they were still available? Thanks, John Bushnell ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:24:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #778 A: You have a chirping noise? Is your motor running uneven at idle too? Check your compression, because a bad exhaust valve will do that. Under 100 lbs in one cylinder with all the rest in good condition, with minimal oil burning is 9 out of 10 times a burnt valve. (My '86 Dodge van with slant 6 has that problem right now. I'm trying to decide whether I should do a valve grind (144K) or since I need a tranny in it anyway, swap both from the '83 parts van. It still drives good, but not much bottom end. Takes off like a rocket after 1200 RPM. Landon=A0Tesar wrote: The symptom I'm having that I would much rather attribute to an exhaust leak than valve clearance is a high frequency ringing that starts at about 50 mph - 2000 rpm? and continues to increase in frequency until it becomes a mush at about 70 mph. It is more pronounced on the throttle than off. My heat riser is fine as well, but the exhaust downpipe connection to the passenger side manifold is not clean, seems like a rush job when they put the engine back in. Also, I will replace the manifold to head gaskets, as the bolts were loose, and I'm concerned that the gasket is damaged - common practice with headers, but I don't know how likely this is with cast manifolds. My wag came from the PO with two return springs in place, one connected, one not. I'd seen that GM style is to have an internal and external spring - different return rates ? But there were two springs, so the first time I hooked the second one up, I put it on the high side of the - - what would you call it - throttle shaft bracket ? so that the two springs fought each other... that didn't work too well. I put both springs on the lower side, there are at least two holes to thread the other spring end to. It's a different truck today. Glad to answer a question for a change.... - - Landon =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Clark Novak wrote: I must have missed a thread... what's the deal with the misaligned pipe? I crawled out and checked my heat riser valve yesterday and no way was that my trouble... moved freely and the spring was springy. So what is this other thing? Also, what's the bit about "both" throttle return springs? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #779 *************************