From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Apr 3 16:24:46 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, April 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 803 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Rust repair fsj: Blackie's carb rebuild RE: fsj: Jeep Fest pictures uploading as I type... fsj: computer users fsj: whitehouse.??? Re: fsj: '82 Wag Limited for sale Re: fsj: Re: 8 vs. 6 (now aerodynamics) fsj: Re: Jeep info fsj: Re: fsj fest in Wa fsj: odo with day trip meter fsj: aerodynamics Re: fsj: Re: fsj fest in Wa Re: fsj: computer users Re: fsj: Blackie's carb rebuild fsj: Paul's show and tell at the Snohomish Fest Re: fsj: Blackie's carb rebuild FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 23:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Rust repair Whoa! That's a first! I made a pic pop up on the FSJ-at-digest.net list! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 02:35:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Blackie's carb rebuild I'm going to try this, o let me know if it's good or bad. What a day at the FSJ fest it was! Nice weather, but I didn't get there till 3:30 (I forgot about the time change and had to stop for parts. I just got some keyboard batteries so I can type LOTS more! :^) I arrived at John M's with an idle of about 2,000 RPM and stalling when I hit bumps at low speed, but first order of business was to change oil and watch John and the others play with Hammer's? headlights and fog light fuse. John noticed my quickie ground wire to frame on Blackie (the green wire). I added Bitron to the fuel tank before I left (I used 7.5 gallons on the way from Renton to Snohomish. That's as bad as a 401 4bbl with 4.10 gears, w/o the fun!) I noticed that the DSPO or someone else had hooked up the hoses wrong. Note the fuel tank vapor line hooked directly to the manifold vacuum! So was the Vac advance, and the vac advance port was plugged off (it's on the pass side of the carb 1/2 way up) I hooked it up right and adjusted the timing by ear. I moved Blackie out of the way of John's son Mark who was playing in the back 40 with his J10 (he clipped John's trailer and a pile of stuff behind the garage, which made me nervous) I added a can of STP-like stuff to my trans before leaving Renton, but I think either my one way sprag is shot, or my rear band needs adjusting (I got major slip on take off, even manually shifted to low, and reverse is perfect. It was engaging low gear with a chirp before due to high RPM) I pulled out my 9/16ths wrench (common tool for 6 cyl owners to have in hand) and I showed John how the inline fuel filter on the Carter BBD can tip down and twist the seat fitting (as in needle and seat) and affect a raising of the float level. I then pulled the top off the adjustment section of the BBD and was showing John how to set the metering rods for economy when Murphy came to visit. The metering rods jammed down at the bottom and wouldn't return! Also the carb body could do the twist, and I heard the faint whistle of a vacuum leak. I took the carb off, and tightened as many intake manifold bolts as I could reach with my wrench. and tightened the carb base screws (the 2 that come up from the bottom under the base gasket) Then I went to show john the bent floats, and Murphy showed up with his buddy little disaster! I turned the freshly cleaned car over and dropped the accelerator pump check ball and the metering rod spring on the ground. I found the spring, but spent an hour sweeping (literally ) Johns drive looking for the ball. Fortunately John's son had some BBs that were the right size (I was looking for a rock at that point. No, not to smash it, but small round and not crumbly, like the one I threw in Elmo last summer when I did the same thing on the side of the trail. Note: Do this someplace that parts won't get lost!) Here's the unlevel floats, and I figured out the flat U spring that holds the float pin in place was missing by the DSPO as well! (I checked the earlier pics, and it's not there! That explains the flooding and weird running somewhat too!) I got it all hooked back up, put the hoses on the right way (I still need to score the vapour cannister from the Dodge van I'm hauling off tomorrow, if it will fit) I put Bitron 2-4-6 in the PS and the front axle (through the breather tube up top. Took 2 minutes!). Started Blackie up (with computer disconnected) and adjusted the carb (It took another stop on more level ground to set the idle speed and mix properly, as well as retard the timing to stop missing and ping) at the Chevron station up the hill from John's I drove home with more power and a much better idle when I slowed down (I didn't have to 2 foot it to stop w/o stalling anymore) I'll let you guys know when this tank of gas is done if Blackie's mileage is as good as Elmo's! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 07:20:06 -0500 From: "The Bear Paw Canoe Co." Subject: RE: fsj: Jeep Fest pictures uploading as I type... > Did you guys play basketball to? > in pic #one? > R.J. > LOL LOL! I wondered the same thing :-) Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:26:11 -0500 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: computer users John wrote: >rofl... obviously your work does not involve supporting computer users... ;) >but I agree... it'd only take one or two attempts for them to figure it out. >I like it. Thanx friends. :) >the stories I could tell about computer users... several involve what happens >when the cap lock is on... :) You're right. The problems that new computer users have borders on amazing and hilarious. I remember when I worked at a computer lab on a college campus and I had a user complain that her table was to small to properly operate her mouse. Apparently, the pointer was at the center of the screen and her mouse was at the edge of the table and she "needed more table" to get the pointer to the right half of the screen. Some people were just not meant to operate a computer Later, Jamie "just take the mouse away" Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com ********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ********** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at e-mail_Disclaimer-at-us.ul.com. UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:44:30 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: whitehouse.??? Can you get live shots of the Lincoln bedroom ? - - Landon =================================== (which is a pain if you > want .net. .org or .gov like whitehouse.gov instead of the site > whitehouse.com No, don't go there! It's a porn site!) Aren't they BOTH??? kim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 100 08:58:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: '82 Wag Limited for sale I don't think 82 used flex tracks. My 82 doesn't anyway. They switched to flex track right around 82 though. - -brad > $850. I saw it parked in front of an auto parts store and looked it over > briefly. Everything worked except the front pass window needs a new flex > track. Motor (360) sounded good, no air pump, the usual leaks. Brand new > tires. The whole rig is dirty but well preserved given it's age. Located in > Kennewick, WA. I have the guy's phone # around here somewhere if anyone is > interested. > > Ben Williams > '71 Wagoneer > '78 F-250 4x4 > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:25:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 8 vs. 6 (now aerodynamics) A: I'd want to know right away! It saves motors! Speaking of leaks, did your friend drive his wagoneer much yet and see if the clogged PCV was his problem? michel=A0balea wrote: This is a neat idea, i guess i will really need to get a spare hood. We could then built manual flaps or vaccum (as the heater flaps) activated ones, of course if you spring a oil or coolant leak.... you would know right away... Michel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Jeep info On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, David Mills wrote: >-->I have an '88 Jeep Grand Wagoneer with an ailing 360. >-->What I would like to know is if anybody offers a kit to >-->install a Chevy 350 into it without extensive modification. >-->Any information would be greatly appreciated. >--> >-->Dave Mills none that I know of... lots of room for custom installs. advance adapters might have pieces to do it. the 350 is a good setup, might want to go with a chevy tranny as well... then the issue is the xfr case... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:54:04 PDT From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj fest in Wa John, Nice picts. What type of camera did you use. Of course on the mac they are even krispier. This is a good incentive to invest -waste- some $$ Michel 74 wag ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:10:28 PDT From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: odo with day trip meter on the snohomish fest pict .. did i see a day tripper... on that dash? What year did they came first? May be i'll try to get one... Michel 74 wag ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 13:30:31 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: aerodynamics michel balea wrote: >-->in order to improve the mileage of the v8 i started some mods. I have been >-->home ridden with a back pain for a week now and had time to surf for >-->hours.... I listened to a guy lecture at the University of Texas on the work they put into the front end of the MonteCarlo to make it a Monte Carlo SS in preparation for Nascar. Pretty interesting how much they could improve it. Coeff went from .42 to .34. I suggest extending the front so that the lower is higher than the top, and so that the front of the hood is integrated. Redo the headlights or put covers on to make them flush, (not pockets) As low an air dam as you're willing to put up with, a flat underside at the bottom of the air dam without creating to much lift (possible? 5000 lbs at max 85 mph ? Move the wipers behind something, and figure out how to rake the windshield more. There is no laminar flow anywhere near that thing. Also, if you need a rear wiper, aerodynamics at the back are poor, this can be tested for any wagon. Some extensions on the sides past the tailgate. The longer the better, and of course you have to put turn signals on them. Michael, do you have time to draw this ? Maybe we can send it over to Chrysler. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:09:49 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj fest in Wa On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, michel balea wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Nice picts. What type of camera did you use. Of course on the mac they are >-->even krispier. an Olympus D320L. It's for sale, I want to get one with an optical zoom. :) asking $250 for it... you ought to see how sharp they are on a UNIX system... ;) john >--> >-->This is a good incentive to invest -waste- some $$ >--> >-->Michel >-->74 wag >-->______________________________________________________ >-->Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:12:02 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: computer users seen this one too... :) it's amazing isn't it? :) john On Mon, 3 Apr 2000 Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com wrote: >-->John wrote: >--> >-->>rofl... obviously your work does not involve supporting computer users... >-->;) >-->>but I agree... it'd only take one or two attempts for them to figure it >-->out. >-->>I like it. Thanx friends. :) >--> >-->>the stories I could tell about computer users... several involve what >-->happens >-->>when the cap lock is on... :) >--> >-->You're right. The problems that new computer users have borders on amazing >-->and hilarious. >--> >-->I remember when I worked at a computer lab on a college campus and I had a >-->user complain that her table was to small to properly operate her mouse. >-->Apparently, the pointer was at the center of the screen and her mouse was >-->at the edge of the table and she "needed more table" to get the pointer to >-->the right half of the screen. >--> >-->Some people were just not meant to operate a computer >--> >-->Later, >--> >-->Jamie "just take the mouse away" Phillips >--> >-->'73 J4600 >-->'77 F250 >--> >-->home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com >-->work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com >--> >--> >--> >--> >-->********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ********** >--> >-->This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential >-->information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not >-->disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this >-->message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail >-->message in error, please delete the e-mail and any attachments >-->and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at >-->e-mail_Disclaimer-at-us.ul.com. >--> >-->UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption >-->or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that >-->arise as a result of e-mail transmission. >-->************************************************************************** >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:37:07 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Blackie's carb rebuild jim... your message is coming through as mostly html... which is driving my UNIX system wacko right now... well, not really, it just said it was HTML, I hit reply and saw the mess you sent. ;) Anyway... good review, thanx. Glad to see you made it home. I'm in class today and escaped for lunch... BTW, what was that terrible grinding sound as you started up my driveway yesterday? ttyl, john On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, James Blair wrote: >-->I'm going to try this, o let me >-->know if it's good or bad. >-->What a day at the FSJ fest it was! Nice >-->weather, but I didn't get there till 3:30 (I >-->forgot about the time change and had to >-->stop for parts. I just got some keyboard >-->batteries so I can type LOTS more! :^) >--><" http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG"> >--> I arrived at John M's with an idle of >-->about 2,000 RPM and stalling when I hit >-->bumps at low speed, but first order of >-->business was to change oil and watch >-->John and the others play with Hammer's? >-->headlights and fog light fuse. John noticed >-->my quickie ground wire to frame on >-->Blackie (the green wire). >--> ="http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00005.JPG"> you are also wrapping your text pretty tight. ;) >--> I added Bitron to the fuel tank before I >-->left (I used 7.5 gallons on the way from >-->Renton to Snohomish. That's as bad as a >-->401 4bbl with 4.10 gears, w/o the fun!) >-->-->" http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00006.JPG"> >--> I noticed that the DSPO or someone >-->else had hooked up the hoses wrong. >-->Note the fuel tank vapor line hooked >-->directly to the manifold vacuum! So was >-->the Vac advance, and the vac advance >-->port was plugged off (it's on the pass side >-->of the carb 1/2 way up) I hooked it up right >-->and adjusted the timing by ear. >-->-->="http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00013.JPG"> >--> I moved Blackie out of the way of John's >-->son Mark who was playing in the back 40 >-->with his J10 (he clipped John's trailer and >-->a pile of stuff behind the garage, which >-->made me nervous) he was "out of control"... ;) you see why I won't let him drive my stepside now! :) >--> I added a can of STP-like stuff to my >-->trans before leaving Renton, but I think >-->either my one way sprag is shot, or my >-->rear band needs adjusting (I got major slip >-->on take off, even manually shifted to low, >-->and reverse is perfect. It was engaging >-->low gear with a chirp before due to high >-->RPM) >--> I pulled out my 9/16ths wrench >-->(common tool for 6 cyl owners to have in >-->hand) and I showed John how the inline >-->fuel filter on the Carter BBD can tip down >-->and twist the seat fitting (as in needle and >-->seat) and affect a raising of the float level. >-->-->"http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00014.JPG"> quite the lesson I got yesterday... I can hardly wait to have a real garage with smooth, level floor, so next time jim doesn't spill little carb parts all over the dirt/sand/ exposed aggragate, gravel, mud, grass, weeds, topsoil that composes my shop/drive. ;) >--> I then pulled the top off the adjustment >-->section of the BBD and was showing John >-->how to set the metering rods for economy >-->when Murphy came to visit. The metering >-->rods jammed down at the bottom and >-->wouldn't return! Also the carb body could >-->do the twist, and I heard the faint whistle >-->of a vacuum leak. >-->-->"http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00031.JPG"> >--> I took the carb off, and tightened as >-->many intake manifold bolts as I could >-->reach with my wrench. and tightened the >-->carb base screws (the 2 that come up >-->from the bottom under the base gasket) >-->-->"http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00046.JPG"> >-->-->"http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00043.JPG"> >--> Then I went to show john the bent floats, and Murphy showed up with >-->his buddy little disaster! I turned the freshly cleaned car over and >-->dropped the accelerator pump check ball and the metering rod spring on >-->the ground. I found the spring, but spent an hour sweeping (literally ) >-->Johns drive looking for the ball. Fortunately John's son had some BBs btw, thanx for cleaning up the driveway... ;) >-->that were the right size (I was looking for a rock at that point. No, >-->not to smash it, but small round and not crumbly, like the one I threw >-->in Elmo last summer when I did the same thing on the side of the trail. >-->Note: Do this someplace that parts won't get lost!) >--> >-->Here's the unlevel floats, and I figured out the flat U spring that >-->holds the float pin in place was missing by the DSPO as well! (I checked >-->the earlier pics, and it's not there! That explains the flooding and >-->weird running somewhat too!) I got it all hooked back up, put the hoses >-->on the right way (I still need to score the vapour cannister from the >-->Dodge van I'm hauling off tomorrow, if it will fit) >--> I put Bitron 2-4-6 in the PS and the front axle (through the breather >-->tube up top. Took 2 minutes!). Started Blackie up (with computer >-->disconnected) and adjusted the carb (It took another stop on more level >-->ground to set the idle speed and mix properly, as well as retard the >-->timing to stop missing and ping) at the Chevron station up the hill from >-->John's >--> I drove home with more power and a much better idle when I slowed >-->down (I didn't have to 2 foot it to stop w/o stalling anymore) >--> I'll let you guys know when this tank of gas is done if Blackie's >-->mileage is as good as Elmo's! Too bad I didn't have all the pieces to get my carb setup... having Jim there would have made it much less painful. He's very familiar with that carb. I also didn't think to swap the axle... I saw the need to change the studs and bearing and didn't realize I could have inserted the "new" axle and given Paul the old bent one with that bearing... duh. Sometimes I'm not terribly bright... later, john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Paul's show and tell at the Snohomish Fest On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, xj-digest wrote: >--> xj: Jeep Fest pictures uploading as I type... >-->Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 08:39:47 -0400 >-->From: Bob Mock >-->Subject: Re: xj: Jeep Fest pictures uploading as I type... >--> >-->Good Lord John, what happened to that ring gear in pic10? >--> >-->Bob >-->> http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/ that was Paul's show and tell item... I'll let Paul have fun with this. ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 13:55:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Blackie's carb rebuild John wrote: jim... your message is coming through as mostly html... which is driving my UNIX system wacko right now... well, not really, it just said it was HTML, I hit reply and saw the mess you sent. ;) A: I forgot the closing /H ML I can't do anything about the wrap AFAIK. I just type and paragraph with hard returns. J: Anyway... good review, thanx. Glad to see you made it home. I'm in class today and escaped for lunch... BTW, what was that terrible grinding sound as you started up my driveway yesterday? A: My transfercase. I couldn't get up the drive in 1st gear due to slipping band, so I have to shut off to shift my NP208 (I need to Bitronize that today) I sold both my Ramblers this morning. Hey! I almost didn't see the part below! J: Too bad I didn't have all the pieces to get my carb setup... having Jim there would have made it much less painful. He's very familiar with that carb. A: That's why I took mine apart and rebuilt it w/o a kit! (losing the checkball wasn't good though!) I still need to adjust my choke. I started up this morning with 3 stalls and 500 RPM idle! J: I also didn't think to swap the axle... I saw the need to change the studs and bearing and didn't realize I could have inserted the "new" axle and given Paul the old bent one with that bearing... duh. =A0 Sometimes I'm not terribly bright... A: That's okay! I need to borrow the bent one to match up with the Model 15 Eagle I have to see if it will swap!=A0=A0It's a D35 with 2 piece axles (yuch!) Maybe you could post the whole thing as a webpage under carb tech? ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #803 *************************