From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu May 11 17:46:20 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, May 11 2000 Volume 01 : Number 846 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... Re: [fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] Re: [fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer] fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... fsj: Re: Fel-Pro kaput? and 4350 gasket Re: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q Re: fsj: Re: Fel-Pro kaput? and 4350 gasket Re: [Re: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] fsj: $750 77 Wagoneer fsj: Farewell for now fsj: msg to the jeep nut: vacuum and juice fsj: NEC Re: fsj: Vinyl top fsj: Re:My life in Hell fsj: looking for perfection FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... A: My heat doesn't shut down for some reason (too aching yet to crawl under the dash and no-one around to help me unload the trans. Cortisone shot still hurts worse than before! Damn tennis elbow!) and I just open and close the air vents to make it comfortable inside. I hope my son stops by later and helps me with my van tranny, so I can sell it and finish the stroker! I'm going to put mirror UV coating on the window, but it'll be a pain to see through at night time! I'm looking for a taller mirror now so I can see in the box AND behind me at the same time! John wrote: On Thu, 11 May 2000, James Blair wrote: A: I like Black Cherry, but Blackie will proably stay just the way it is. The back window with the sun the other day in an hour's lineup going back to Canada sure let me know why rednecks drive these trucks! I think it's close to a solar focusing point or something! LOL! =A0 ---- driving that Honcho up from California was bad the first day... coming up out of the Bay area with the sun to my back... yikes... I didn't want to stop to put something back there either... finally put my briefcase behind my head... or a pillow, or something... forgot what I used now... but man was it hot. :) notice Superdawg has a sunscreen in the back window already... and a functioning air conditioning... I use it almost daily... sure is nice... (yes, it may only be 59 degrees outside, but it gets up to dang near 65 in that cab... ;) I can crank that a/c so it spews about 29 degrees... lately I've been running it at about 45 degrees or so... ahhhhh.... ;) john ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 00 12:06:32 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] Michael Baxter wrote: > Unless of course your wrench, or Chrysler, has figured out how to > violate Kirchoff's Law... ;) Dang, and I thought I had finally stamped that memory out of my head. I = know C will be with me to the grave, but was hoping to have evicted Kirchoff a= nd Thevenin by this time... I'll keep Ohm around tho, he comes in handy now = and again. And you never know when you're going to want to analyze the trans= ient response of your friendly neighborhood JFET... (*shudder* this is scaring= me, I better stop) > Like I said, the wiring harness between the alternator and external > regulator, if any, would have to be changed for the higher output. But= > from the Battery back to the firewall, nothing would be changed... At > least on a Jeep. And I'm not sure they used different fusible links on= > the Jeeps for higher output Alternators... Speaking of which it wouldn't hurt to have fusible links in all the right= places. But... where are all those right places? Seems I remember a pos= t on another list way back indicating there aren't enough on our Jeeps. > The big thing with higher output alternators is to use the stock wiring= > to run all the stock accessories, but any high draw aftermarket > accessories like lights, stereo amps, etc. need to be powered by > properly installed and over-current protected totally separate wiring. How does that work? I'm picturing a fat wire (whatever NEC requires to c= arry that much current) going from alternator to the + terminal of the starter= solenoid, regular stock wiring in place there, and a few runs of fat wiri= ng to the off-road lites, for example. Or do you mean to run an entirely separ= ate wire from the alternator to some terminal, where the hi-current aftermark= et bolt-ons connect? What would you use for the terminal and where would y= ou put it? Seems like simply beefing the wire from the alt to + terminal an= d using fat wires to the hi-current accessories would be sufficient. > potential electrical power is under their hood. Then I look at the back= > and find the only wire hooked-up is the factory 10 gauge. :-) I think > "wow, 140 amps and 90 of them are wasted." :-) Well, not -wasted- ... those 90 extra amps would (briefly) go into meltin= g the 10ga wire and maybe even turning the rig into a nice campfire... :) Speaking of melted wire, I recently added a batt cable to my trophies; th= e insulation had melted and dripped off and then cooled leaving a big strip= of material hanging from a bare wire. All thanks to a bad starter. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:06:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer] A: A friend of Michel's in Seattle came by a month or so ago, and I noticed the throttle cable was pulled through the firewall and hanging by a thread. I grabbed the one from the '75 Chev 1 ton I had here (350 4 bbl) and it was about 1" longer and worked fine. Michael=A0Shimniok wrote: Michael Baxter wrote: I'm thinking your thinking is correct. :-) Based on you feeling the peddle move-up, either you have an intermittent in the solenoid's power wire or the solenoid itself is intermittent. On the topic of throttles behaving oddly... you may recall from my Moab tales that my 85 GW "Backhoe" launched himself into rather nasty rocky notch when the RR started to droop going over a tough obstacle. What happened was the throttle cable housing got yanked out of the grommit attached to the plate attached to the carb and effectively applied the throttle. For the rest of the vacation I discovered every time the RR droops due to twist, the accel goes down, tho never as much as it did that one fateful night on Hell's Revenge. Seems a friend of mine on CFSJA had the same problem with his rig. Are these vehicles known to have short throttle cables? Is this a problem anyone else has experienced? Any other thoughts? Looking to remedy this before the next trail ride for fairly obvious reasons... Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: sun shine pain and cool rides... On Thu, 11 May 2000, James Blair wrote: >--> I'm going to put mirror UV coating on the window, >-->but it'll be a pain to see through at night time! I'm looking for a >-->taller mirror now so I can see in the box AND behind me at the same >-->time! why not get one of those convex mirrors inside like I have... they're great. I got used to them in europe... Kmart and Target and Walmart sometimes have them... I've got an extra one I can show you, or maybe horsetrade for some help on getting the new manifold in Superdawg... find the brackets comrade... ;) I'll have to check to see if Saturday is open... is it for you? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 12:37:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Fel-Pro kaput? and 4350 gasket A: Fel pro is just fine. Probably they mean Felpro isn't carried by them (don't think it ever was? NAPA carries original manu parts mostly) Ben wrote: I went to Napa to get a new gasket to go between my Motorcraft 4350 and the plastic spacer. I gave them the Fel-Pro part # and they had no way to cross reference it and didn't have the ability to order me one from any other source. They sent me to the competition next door who said they'd have it in the morning -$15. Napa said this little hole-in-the-wall parts store was the only one who handled Fel-Pro anymore. So is Fel-Pro in trouble or does Napa just have a worse attitude than usual? I need a new gasket cause I pulled the carb off too many times over the weekend and it appears to be leaking. The side that goes against the carb has all kinds of little casting indentations in it. At $15 a pop I wonder if I could get away with just flipping it over and useing the good side to seal against the carb base? Any thoughts on this? Ben ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 14:43:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Dillon Subject: Re: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q One of the problems that has not been addressed with the high amp-alt is the need to have a large enough guage wire back to the battery that is able to withstand the rated output of the alternator. Under "normal" conditions only a small amount of current is needed to maintain the float charge on the battery so under "normal" conditions the 10 guage wire is more than adiquate (sp ?). But under the conditions where the battery has been discharged, ie I left the lights on all night, or the engine quit half way though a creek and I had to winch it the rest of the way across and dry out the ignition. When the engine is fired up the alt will be trying to put out 140 amps and a 10 guage wire will carry more then 30 amps (alot more) ~10 feet of 10 guage wire with 12 volts across it will be much more than 30 amps, if you do have a fuseable link it will blow (not good) or if you dont the 10 guage wire will do its imitation of a toaster element and melt its insilation (much worse). I have also seen where batterys have had intermintant internal shorts that have blown fusable links, so if you want a 140amp alternator would be a good idea to upgrade the Alt-> batt path so it can handle the Alts rated output. You may not have to upsize all the way to what the NEC code says, as this circuit will not have to handle 140 Amps on a continious basis but for aleast a couple of minutes untill the battery charge comes up and the current starts to drop off. After you up size the the wire, then the next problem is what to do with the amp meter as I don't think it would hold up to a 140 amps. (I was looking at bypassing the alt->firewall->amp guage-> firewall -> battery wire for the condition where the firewall-> battery current is greater than 40-50 amps but havent had time to work on that yet. (It may be as simple as a large PNP power transitor with the emitter tied to the battery and the collector and base tied to the alt, with a couple of resistors to tune when it switches on) I do agree that pulling off high load stuff prior to the firewall is a good idea, but it is still not the total solution for using a large alt. Mike D. Mike Baxter and John Write: Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 00:35:20 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q john writes: >> Anyway, the wiring harness is really irrelevant to the issue at hand. = If you have Air Conditioning, you need a certain gauge wire to handle the= current associated with it. Just because you have a larger alternator doesn't mean squat... Unless of course your wrench, or Chrysler, has figured out how to violate Kirchoff's Law... ;) Like I said, the wiring harness between the alternator and external regulator, if any, would have to be changed for the higher output. But from the Battery back to the firewall, nothing would be changed... At lea= st on a Jeep. And I'm not sure they used different fusible links on the Jee= ps for higher output Alternators... << >> So, crank up the amperage capability of your alternator without fear of frying your fsj. However, I highly, highly recommend the use of relays= for any higher load devices like lights, horn, fans and so on. The H4 replacement loom from IPF is a good way of reducing problems with even th= e standard headlights. I had problems with dimmer switches and headlight switches using regular stuff. :) = << The big thing with higher output alternators is to use the stock wiring t= o run all the stock accessories, but any high draw aftermarket accessories like lights, stereo amps, etc. need to be powered by properly installed and over-current protected totally separate wiring. The stock 10 gauge wiring from the alternator and battery can't handle more than about 50 amps. total and if you look-up 10 gauge wire on the 12V NEC length vs. current capacity chart, the chart tops-out at 30 amps. Meaning the Nation= al Electric Code doesn't recommend 10 gauge wire for more than 30 amps. The big thing with higher output alternators is to use the stock wiring t= o run all the stock accessories, but any high draw aftermarket accessories like lights, stereo amps, etc. need to be powered by properly installed and over-current protected totally separate wiring. The stock 10 gauge wiring from the alternator and battery can't handle more than about 50 amps. total and if you look-up 10 gauge wire on the 12V NEC length vs. current capacity chart, the chart tops-out at 30 amps. Meaning the Nation= al Electric Code doesn't recommend 10 gauge wire for more than 30 amps. I get a few chuckles often when someone is giving me an underhood tour and they point out their 140 amp. alternator. I guess it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and they sleep well at night knowing all that potential electrical power is under their hood. Then I look at the back a= nd find the only wire hooked-up is the factory 10 gauge. :-) I think "wow, 1= 40 amps and 90 of them are wasted." :-) Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 10-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 100 13:12:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Seevers Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Fel-Pro kaput? and 4350 gasket All the Napa gaskets I have ever bought were Victor I think. They used to come in Victor packaging, but then they switched to Napa packaging but the fine print said made by victor. I have a D44 diff cover gasket out in my rig that I just bought this week (getting ready for the Black Rock trip!). It has the napa packaging, but I'll see what the fine print says and try to remember to post. Personally, I have no idea how victor compares iwth Fel Pro. I have used both and thought they were both fine. - -brad > A: Fel pro is just fine. Probably they mean Felpro isn't carried by them > (don't think it ever was? NAPA carries original manu parts mostly) > > Ben wrote: > I went to Napa to get a new gasket to go between my Motorcraft 4350 and > the plastic spacer. I gave them the Fel-Pro part # and they had no way > to cross reference it and didn't have the ability to order me one from > any other source. They sent me to the competition next door who said > they'd have it in the morning -$15. Napa said this little > hole-in-the-wall parts store was the only one who handled Fel-Pro > anymore. > So is Fel-Pro in trouble or does Napa just have a worse attitude than > usual? > I need a new gasket cause I pulled the carb off too many times over the > weekend and it appears to be leaking. The side that goes against the > carb has all kinds of little casting indentations in it. At $15 a pop I > wonder if I could get away with just flipping it over and useing the > good side to seal against the carb base? Any thoughts on this? > Ben ------------------------------ Date: 11 May 00 14:20:32 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] Mike Dillon wrote: > After you up size the the wire, then the next problem is what to do wit= h = > the amp meter as I don't think it would hold up to a 140 amps. (I was Just disable the ammeter completely. I'm not even real crazy about 60 am= ps let alone 140 running thru the cab. > but havent had time to work on that yet. (It may be as simple as a larg= e > PNP power transitor with the emitter tied to the battery and the > collector and base tied to the alt, with a couple of resistors to tune > when it switches on) That's a pretty big power transistor. If you find one that can handle th= at kind of current let me know, it might come in handy some day. The thing = is you'd have to turn on one, turn off the other (ie, switch the current to = the ammeter or direct, without interruption. Sounds like more trouble than i= t's worth if you ask me. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:51:00 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: $750 77 Wagoneer In Pasco, Washington (509)542-0451 That's all I know. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:51:45 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Farewell for now Rob Caufield writes: >> I'm going to sign off the list for a few weeks. << That reminds me...I will also be pulling the plug on the list for 4-6 weeks towards the end of this month. I thought for a 1/2 second about taking my laptop with me, but then I remembered I like to travel light :-= ). I'm being forced by my family to take a vacation for a lot longer than I want in a place I'm sure I'll like. Going to France for 22 days. Paris fo= r 6 or 7 days with the balance in the South of France. Around Bordeaux, Toulouse, and the Pyrennees Mtns. We're staying near Bordeaux and day tripping from there. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:51:43 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: msg to the jeep nut: vacuum and juice jeepnut writes: >> Are these 2150 carbs on the '88 known for being good or junk? = AMC exclusive? Ford? My FSM shows 2150, but this manual is for '84 model= year. << A properly set-up 2150 will do exactly what it is supposed to do reliably= . The 2100/2150/4300/4350s all look suspiciously like Holley designs. We've= never confirmed that though. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 17:51:47 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: NEC Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com writes: >> Because I needed a break, and I was a bit curious, I tried to look for= the reference you made with respect to the "12V NEC length vs. current capacity chart." I couldn't find it though. I have a 1999 copy of the NEC (NFPA70). Wher= e is that chart at? << It's in a book I have on RV Maintenance. I've been thinking for years about scanning them and making them available. I don't think it's copyright infringement since the charts source is cited as the NEC. I should get around to that soon. Maybe the NEC has different books for AC and DC? Not sure why there not i= n the current book. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Vinyl top A: I strip the roof down, then put Rust Mort on, and seal it with vinyl deck coating with tread stuff in it. Voil=E5! Instant new roof! (seal the holes first with fibreglass mat from inside) Bob=A0Bradfield wrote: Ok, the vinyl top on my 83 Wag needs to come off. Has some holes and tears but, the biggest reason is the fade, it's just ugly. Also, I don't want any type of rack up there. Can I just remove the vinyl and plug (bondo) the holes? The trucks gonna be repainted anyway. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:10:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re:My life in Hell I was really F'd up when I got the Dear Jim letter the other day, but I'm alright for now. We plan to sell the house and go from there. I bear her no ill will, because my being sick and out of work for so long is messing her up real bad from stress and her job is not the easiest to begin with. She has her own issues to deal with. Hopefully we can fix things, but I'm prepared in case they're not. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 15:34:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: looking for perfection In Brooklyn, New York, Chush is a school that caters to learning-disabled children. Some children remain in Chush for their entire school career, while others can be mainstreamed into conventional schools. At a Chush fund-raising dinner, the father of a Chush child delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he cried out, "Where is the perfection in my own Shaya? Everything God does is done with perfection. But my child cannot understand things as other children do. My child cannot remember facts and figures as other children do. Where is God's perfection?" The audience was shocked by the question, pained by the father's anguish and stilled by the piercing query. "I believe," the father said, answering his own question, "that when God brings a child like this into the world, the perfection he seeks is in the way people react to the child." He then told the following story about his son Shaya: One afternoon Shaya and his father walked past a park where some boys Shaya knew were playing baseball. Shaya asked, "Do you think they will let me play?" Shaya's dad knew that his son was not at all athletic and that most boys would not want him on their team. But Shaya's father understood that if his son was chosen to play it would give him a comfortable sense of belonging. The dad approached one of the boys in the field and asked if Shaya could play. The boy looked around for guidance from his teammates. Getting none, he took matters into his own hands and said, "We are losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to put him up to bat in the ninth inning." Shaya's father was ecstatic as Shaya smiled broadly. Shaya was told to put on a glove and go out to play short center field. In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shaya's team scored a few runs but was still behind by three. In the bottom of the ninth, Shaya's team scored again and now, with two outs and the bases loaded with the potential winning run on base, Shaya was scheduled to be up. Would the team actually let Shaya bat at this juncture and give away their chance to win the game? Suprisingly, Shaya was given the bat. Everyone knew that it was all but impossible because Shaya didn't even know how to hold the bat properly, let alone hit with it. =A0=A0=A0=A0However as Shaya stepped up to the plate, the pitcher moved a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shaya should at least be able to make contact. The first pitch came in and Shaya swung clumsily and missed. =A0=A0=A0=A0One of his teammates came up to Shaya and together they held the bat and faced the pitcher waiting for the next pitch. The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly toward Shaya. As the pitch came in, Shaya and his teammate swung at the bat and together they hit a slow ground ball to the pitcher. The pitcher picked up the grounder and could easily have thrown the ball to the first baseman. Shaya would have been out and that would have ended the game. Instead, the pitcher took the ball and threw it on a high arc to right field, far beyond the first baseman. Everyone started yelling, "Shaya, run to first! =A0=A0=A0=A0Run to first!" Never in his life had Shaya run to first. He scampered down the baseline wide-eyed and startled. By the time he reached first base, the right fielder had the ball. He could have thrown the ball to the second baseman who would tag out Shaya,who was still running. But the right fielder understood what the pitcher's intentions were, so he threw the ball high and far over the third baseman's head. Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second!" Shaya ran toward second base as the runners ahead of him deliriously circled the bases toward home. As Shaya reached second base, the opposing shortstop ran to him, turned him in the direction of third base and shouted, "Run to third." As Shaya rounded third, the boys from both teams ran behind him screaming, "Shaya, run home!" Shaya ran home, stepped on home plate and all 18 boys lifted him on their shoulders and made him the hero, as he had just hit a "grand slam" and won the game for his team. "That day," said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, "those 18 boys reached their level of God's perfection." Funny how this is so true and shame on us. Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world is going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding God, and something good, people think twice about sharing. Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyberspace, but the public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace. Funny, isn't it? Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it to them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=3D13998&Auth=3Dfalse ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #846 *************************