From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 12 12:03:49 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, May 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 849 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: sun shine pain and cool rides... fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer fsj: Vinyl top fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Re: fsj: Starter question... Re: fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer RE: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:14:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: sun shine pain and cool rides... I'm pretty sure the a/c needed to be charged... I don't think I ever got to it... it does blow air... Man, I can't remember if I charged it or not... I was looking for my last two cans of R12 to charge Superdawg and couldn't find them... so I wonder??? Well, if I had the Honcho would frost you... anyway, be careful... freon is expensive... If it is in need of a charge you may consider going for the r134 stuff... I hear it's not as good as R12, but a whole lot cheaper... I did the conversion on my benz and it would blow about 39 degrees... Superdawg has r12 and blows almost 29 degrees! Not sure where to go... If you do the r134 any parts store will work for you. Check with your local NAPA as a starting point... CarQuest if you have one... and then the other chains from there on... Stay away from the big franchises, sears, firestone, and so on... they can be very bad news... The only way I'd go there is if I personally knew the mechanic and knew he was good... but if he was good, why would he work in a place like that??? Any film on the back window will help. most parts stores down south have the stuff and know the good stuff. :) 3M is about the best, you may have to go to an auto body supply store to get it... or just pay the $50 to have a tint/detail shop do it... I hate heat/humidity... bugs... snakes... basically, the south... ;) congrats on your grades! I don't trust or respect communist reports... they are clueless about the scientific method of testing and have been technically wrong so many times they frighten me. :) Of course I haven't looked at one in over 10 years, but did hear about a big goofup they did with oil a few years back... They extrapolated that if oil in a taxi cab run constantly for such and such a time, then you can extend it by such and such... and their final answer was a serious leap of unscientific guessing that could result in engine damage in "normal" use... junk science... just like the fools that believe that CFC's, which are heavier than air can somehow teleport themselves to the upper atmosphere so they can attack the ozone... oh, don't get me started... ;) I believe the only reason it became a viable issue in this country was because DuPont's patent on r12 expired... Freon is not, and never has, been an ozone depleter in the magnitude that the junk scientists claim... The oceans and volcanoes... in ONE year, produce more than man has since the industrial revolution! Hey, I've been making improvements to the slide show setup on wagoneers.com... http://www.wagoneers.com/johns-slideshow.cgi I'll be adding more pictures to the FSJ and other shows soon.. I just grabbed and linked all the amsoil images... Man, I love Perl... gotta run, it's late and I have to get up early tomorrow... Superdawg gets a new windshield in the morning... ;) ttyl, john On Fri, 12 May 2000, R.J. Baynum wrote: >-->I turn on my Air conditioning .. that's what I think it is.. (I have never messed with >-->it before) right above the hump , below the dash the two knobs.. I am not sure what is >-->what, except that the air that is blowing ( on a separate fan) is cool , but not warm >-->or cold. Do you think it needs to be recharged? if so where do I go? It is was hot >-->today, mid 90's and breezy/partly sunny and humid >-->I am sweating right now inside the house at 1 am in the morning as I write this.. ugh! >--> >-->Also , What do I do about tinting the back window? I see what you mean! First time I >-->have ever own a pick up truck, without a window in the back! >-->Any ideas? >--> >-->Oh today I got some great little camping chairs( folding ) from "Coleman Camping" at >-->"Sam's" ( a Warehouse club , allot like Costco) >-->really cool, and very comfy! for 15.00 bucks a piece Also.. got a nice Grill, at >-->Service Merchandise, a 44,000 BTU , with side burner, for 200.00..( Ironic, is that >-->when we got home , Katherine, got a new Consumer reports, which was featuring Bug >-->spray (the best is "Deep Woods Off.. sport Highest amount of Deet ) and Grills. >-->Guess what? We bought the best rated one! weird! (it's made by Sunbeam, and comes with >-->a tank!) Speaking of which.. did you know they do a exchange bottle system over here? >-->instead of having your own personal tank( a new one) filled? I hope these tanks are >-->good, some have been painted and fixed up to look good, but I would not trust somebody >-->else's tank..! >-->Oh last but not least... >-->I am done with my finals!!!! >-->no more college stuff until the fall! I think I am going to get a B average or maybe >-->a A! ( hey... not bad for a guy who always got C or D's! >--> >-->Later! >-->Going camping soon, >-->taking the Honcho, for a run! >--> >-->R.J. >--> >-->Huntsville Al. >--> >-->john wrote: >--> >-->> On Thu, 11 May 2000, James Blair wrote: >-->> >-->> >-->A: I like Black Cherry, but Blackie will proably stay just the way it >-->> >-->is. The back window with the sun the other day in an hour's lineup going >-->> >-->back to Canada sure let me know why rednecks drive these trucks! I think >-->> >-->it's close to a solar focusing point or something! LOL! >-->> ---- >-->> >-->> driving that Honcho up from California was bad the first day... coming up >-->> out of the Bay area with the sun to my back... yikes... I didn't want to stop >-->> to put something back there either... finally put my briefcase behind my head... >-->> or a pillow, or something... forgot what I used now... but man was it hot. :) >-->> >-->> notice Superdawg has a sunscreen in the back window already... and a functioning >-->> air conditioning... I use it almost daily... sure is nice... (yes, it may >-->> only be 59 degrees outside, but it gets up to dang near 65 in that cab... ;) >-->> >-->> I can crank that a/c so it spews about 29 degrees... lately I've been running >-->> it at about 45 degrees or so... ahhhhh.... >-->> >-->> ;) >-->> john >-->> >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-->> john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com >-->> don't leave life without Jesus, please... >-->> Snohomish, Washington USA >-->> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 02:44:34 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer jeepnut writes: >> Checking the FSM and it shows in the IS sections an update for the '86 model year. It is a voltmeter! What does that mean to me? BEE is pretty durn dusty, but maybe I can dredge up that the ammeter is more dangerous due to... what? ...current in the wire to an ammeter is higher= than in a wire to a voltmeter? more disastrous if the wire shorts?... Kinda a guess, but I think there's logic in there somewhere << The only thing bad about the ammeter FSJs is the ammeter should have been= a shunt type instead of having all the current going to/from the battery flowing through it. And the fact it has brass/copper terminals and the wiring harness connectors are aluminum. Or whatever the combo. is...it causes electrolysis. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 02:44:33 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Vinyl top "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" writes: >> I'm listening to the experts here because I'm not one of them. Those dime sized holes where the roof rack was are gonna have to be welded? I just thought some kind of fiber-laced filler would do it. Am I wrong? << I'm not up on all the new high tech. fillers but, I would personally just= weld them-up. That's what I've done in the past. I thought Gaylon Holmes gave you very good advice. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 02:44:33 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] "Ray Drouillard" writes: >> But Michael... if you haven't Thevinated lately, you might want to bon= e up on the good 'ol "S domain" stuff. Remember that stuff? You do your Leplace transform thingie and throw some "S" into your nice formerly line= ar equations and find yourself mumbling something like Vc=3D1/(S*C) and Vl=3D= S*L. Then, you do all that Kirchoff and Norton stuff, maybe Thevinate a little= , throw it into a matrix, and try to remember how to do matrix algebra. << Gees, You guys are making this too complicated. Just over-engineer the heck out of it and then you don't have to do all that fancy math stuff which just makes you number rummy anyway :-). Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 02:44:31 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Big AMPS = Big FSJ Car-B-Q] Michael Shimniok writes: >> Speaking of which it wouldn't hurt to have fusible links in all the right places. But... where are all those right places? Seems I remember = a post on another list way back indicating there aren't enough on our Jeeps= . << The correct places for fusible link(s) is in the stock locations. Later FSJs, I assume the ones which have a volt meter, have two fusible links. One to the alternator and the other one for the rest. The stock fusible links are the major player in no FSJ weenie roasts. >> How does that work? I'm picturing a fat wire (whatever NEC requires to carry that much current) going from alternator to the + terminal of the starter solenoid, regular stock wiring in place there, and a few runs= of fat wiring to the off-road lites, for example. Or do you mean to run a= n entirely separate wire from the alternator to some terminal, where the hi-current aftermarket bolt-ons connect? What would you use for the terminal and where would you put it? Seems like simply beefing the wire from the alt to + terminal and using fat wires to the hi-current accessories would be sufficient. << If you connect the output terminal of the alt. to the battery side of the starter solenoid, you bypass the ammeter...if equip'd. If you have a later FSJ w/ a volt meter, then no problem. If you use the the aux. lights w/o the engine running, then I'd power them from the bat. side of the starter solenoid. If you only used them wi= th the engine running, you could hook them up directly to the alternator. Th= e latter would be taking advantage of a high output alt's extra capacity. There are remote fuse boxes available which use round or blade type fuses. Even water resistant ones that can be used close to the lights, et= c. I'd run a circuit breaker (auto reset type on critical circuits like trailer brake controllers), a fuse or a fusible link for over-current protection as close to the alternator as possible. Then a fat wire to fee= d the remote fuse box etc. On my Chero. I have two additional circuits off the alternator. It has be= en a long time since I did this, but I think it goes like this. Both are off= the alternator. One is an 8 gauge wire protected by a 50 amp. circuit breaker which goes to my trailer connector and charges my trailer's batteries, runs my 3-way fridge on 12V and powers the running lights via = a relay when it is in tow. The other is a 10 gauge wire protected by a 20 a= mp (maybe 30 amp) breaker which goes inside and powers my electric fuel pump= via a relay and I have one or two more connections for things like my 5 channel stereo amp. which isn't installed yet. = I have a third additional circuit which powers just my trailer brake controller. I feed this one from the bat. side of the starter relay= and use a 20 amp. auto reset circuit breaker. I did this because it bypasses the fusible link. If the fusible link burns up because of a shor= t somewhere else while coming down a 20% grade, I'll still have trailer brakes. I don't have any trouble charging all three batteries, running all the lights, the A/C or heater fans, providing 11 amps to the fridge and 12 am= ps to the brake controller when I stomp on the brake peddle with this set-up...all from my stock 63 amp. alternator. >> Well, not -wasted- ... those 90 extra amps would (briefly) go into meltin=3D g the 10ga wire and maybe even turning the rig into a nice campfire... :) << The stock wiring of the ammeter type is mostly self-regulating. I'm sure some added resistance from the infamous corroded ammeter terminals would reck havoc and has in the past but, keep those terminals clean and it really plays beautifully. You might get a few extra amps through the circuit to the battery with a high output alt. for a second, but the risi= ng resistance in the battery which results from the newly generated heat wil= l quickly regulate the current passing through the wires. That's why when y= ou start a FSJ with an ammeter and a nearly dead battery, the initial charge= rate is in the red at around 60 amps., but it quickly falls to something closer to 30 amps. The internal resistance of the battery rises and the heat generated in the wires helps some too. I'm a proponent of leaving the stock wiring intact with good clean connections as much as possible and never using a one wire alternator. Th= e Jeep engineers designed it with safety in mind and it is too easy to miss= some safety aspect when trying to reengineer it all. Like the fact that t= he aternator's field is excited from the fusible link side. Should the fusib= le link burn-up, the alternator will drop off line and quit feeding the shor= t which caused the fusible link to burn-up. In the same situation a 140 amp= . one wire alternator will feed the short and the ignition system until you= shut-off the engine or a massive melt down occurs. And your recognition/reaction times may not be fast enough in which case you may have the opportunity to break out the weenies. You can install a 200 amp. alternator is you want. If the wiring is stock= and in good condition you won't burn anything up. You also won't be utilizing about 150 amps. Like I said yesterday, if it makes you sleep better at night; by all means... The way to utilize the additional capaci= ty of the alternator is to power high-draw aftermarket accessories via well thought-out and over-current protected additional circuits. Just leave th= e stock stuff intact. If you have an ammeter, remember it'll only read how much current goes to/from the battery through the stock system. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 11-May-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 06:56:49 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Rear axle seal/bearing Hi Mr. Blair, Sooo there is ALSO an inner seal. Bearing too? How to replace both? How to grease the seal? Pull the hogshead outta the rear end?... I DON'WANNA DO DAT!.... but will if I have to I suppose. Pulling the hogshead is kinda scary to me. I know there are shims involved and if it isn't done right, I'll make things worse... Steve Lett aka JeepNut James Blair wrote: > A: Sounds like either the inner seal was tweaked during install (I > grease them before pushing the axles in, and DON'T let the axle slide on > the seal! Also make sure the spring is on the inside lip after > installing! They tend to fly off if hit wrong) I grease the bearings > separately and make sure the seal surface is as clean as possible, with > no scratches or scores from the old seal (and they sell you the right > seal!). Any scores, and I put in a speedi-sleeve repair kit. I believe > you need a Set 10 bearing kit. > > Steve wrote > Hi group... > Man I've got a lot of stuff wrong.... > OK, still haven't got the new solenoid yet, > though am pretty sure that is it, but.... > I have very poor luck with someone else working > on my rigs down here for some reason. So a few months ago, I found the > rear seal, drivers side leaking badly. Literally everything within the > brake drum was coated with goop. > First time replacing a rear wheel bearing for > this dyed-in-the-wool, bailin'wire an' ducttape kinda guy but I know > from the reading that I need to press the bearing and retaining ring > back on. 30" of 2" pipe and some appropriate flanges for flat surfaces, > drop the axle thru a flange, onto the retaining ring, down into the > pipe, and drop it from 6, 8, 12 inches to the concrete pad as > appropriate now driving the bearing ever closer toward the retaining > ring as required. > ... but I don't think I drove it far enough. > After installing the seal, it was fine for a while, but I've got a brake > drum fulla goo again. And it looks leaking pretty good, so I'm pretty > sure the rear end is running low on fluid. > SOOO having only ever done this one, and not > having a spare laying around to look at.... What do you guys think I did > here? Is there some kind of shoulder on the axle shaft that I can safely > hammer this thing down tight against? I seem to recall being more > worried about going too far, than in not going far enough. I seem to > recall thinking that if I went too far, I'd never be able to get it > backed off without buggering it up. So I may have erred by not driving > it home like a banshee. What do you think? > I'm thinking about pulling it tomorrow nite and > trying my "special technique" again to see if I can move it a little > more toward the wheel end of the axle. Or is it a waste of time... maybe > the seal is all buggered up and would keep leaking anyway.... > Same topic... the idiot at AutoZone just told me > that Jeep doesn't use an outer wheel bearing, only the inners cause > that's what his computer brought up. Since the outers didn't come up, I > don't have to worry about them, it doesn't use them. Isn't that great, > how lucky for me. > Other interesting news from AutoZone? ....the > throttle solenoid for an '88 Grand Wagoneer doesn't come separately. It > only comes in the throttle body rebuild kit that has all the gaskets you > need to rebuild the throttle body. You don't say.... > Now I have to order it from my usual guy and > wait till next week.... > Thanks Folks. > Steve Lett aka JeepNut > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on > allexperts.com Pics: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 07:04:03 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Starter question... Thanks for reposting this info Mr. Blair. Steve Lett James Blair wrote: > A: I know I answered this earlier, but I reread it. If you pull the > little power wire and it quits, then it's electric, but if you have to > pull the battery cable it's a bad solenoid or bad starter nose bushing > (Ford direct drive type starters are infamous for it). > > Steve wrote: > Now Kim and Michael had to remind me about starters... Mine won't > quit. Anybody had this? > The silly thing will start cranking but I can > let off the key and it keeps cranking until it starts, or sometimes > it'll cough and not start, but the point is that the starter seems to > stop "driving" as soon as the truck starts to act like it's gonna start. > So I'm lost. For 32,000 now Regis, is it > a. bad key switch > b. bad solenoid > c. goofy starter > d. none of the above? > And does this seem a > fire hazard to anyone else? Man I've never heard that word so much > discussing ANY other kind of vehicle. Are these things rolling torches > or what? ...not that it'll make much difference... I may have to > pickup an extinguisher tho... > Thanks! > Steve aka JeepNut > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on > allexperts.com Pics: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:47:12 -0500 From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Oddities on the Wagoneer jeepnut said: {- What year is your SJ? Poking around the book tonite and noticed an IS note {- on '86 model year for a "mild surge or engine speed variation while {- driving"....on the 5.9l engine... {- Power Valve Vacumn Circuit gets rerouted to a better vacumn source. {- Let me know if you (or others) need details. '88. I'd be happy to know more if it still happened in '88. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My cat's name is "Mittens". -- Ralph Wiggum - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:09:29 -0500 From: "Bob Bradfield,MCSE" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top I'd be VERY suprised if the DS-PREV-O would understand the operational functions of a screwdriver, let alone an engine or manifold swap. My issue is, what guide do I use for replacing the currently butchered, plugged off and missing vacuum lines? The dealer tells me there was a change made during 83, I just got mis-labeled. Not much help. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of James Blair Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:19 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: RE: RE: RE: Vinyl top A: Sounds to me like someone swapped in an older motor or swapped manifolds. My '84 had a setup like that! Bob Bradfield,MCSE wrote: Wow. Thanks for all of the info. Didn't think of the flexing that happens up there, great point. I'm having a new liner installed and, leaking will be frowned upon. BTW, since you know what you're doing , would you be able to tell me why the %^&* my Chilton's and Haynes books refer to a 'DUAL CTO' in my 83 Wag, even my emissions sticker shows two of these bad boys. I only have one. It sits on the thermostat housing. There is not even a place for the other - nothing. I have the CTO on the DRV side, the vacuum distributor on the PASS side, thats it. Trying to redo the vacuum lines is almost impossible because of bad diagrams. Even the Jeep dealers microfilm shows a dual system. I've asked this before, to no avail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ JimBlair, Seattle,WA 1983 4.2L Chero 4dr http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html Now appearing on allexperts.com Pics: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998&Auth=false ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #849 *************************