From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jun 10 19:58:20 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, June 10 2000 Volume 01 : Number 886 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Post-Production J20s Re: fsj: looking at a rare one tomorrow... fsj: FSJ troubles in Latte Land... RE: fsj: we b back... fsj: RE: what's the worse that could happen? RE: fsj: we b back... fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s RE: fsj: we b back... fsj: The things you see .. fsj: New Member, First 4wd Re: fsj: New Member, First 4wd fsj: Re: The things you see .. fsj: Re: [1FSJ] The things you see .. Re: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s fsj: Re: The things you see .. fsj: Re: The things you see .. FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:07:06 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Post-Production J20s this may be correct on the Jtrucks Rhett... i.e. continuing production of the '87 model and badging them '88's from July on. I'll have to dig out the Four Wheeler article, I don't think the last 4 GW's were all exported, at least not the last one. :) Shoot, I wonder if I remembered to look at the actual production date of the Last Wagoneer... will have to look at my pictures of it... Michael, do you recall seeing the actual date of manufacture on it? I've heard these rumors of 88 J-trucks for years, now that Dave Reading has come forth with specifics on one... you know, like owning one made in September 1987... registered as an 1988... However, that date still might technically classify it as an 1987 model, simply because Jeep launched the original J-truck series in November 1962. But with Rhett's suggestion that from July on they badged them as '88's... makes sense... Detroit has launched and changed stuff in mid-year before, look at the Mustangs... :) I would like to find out from other '88 J-truck owners what their production dates are... if there are any past November then we have to decide if the run was just really small, or if Jeep continued to produce the 87s until inventory was depleted and simply badged them as '88s from July on... that makes sense I guess... Just noticed that Dave is in Chicago! Hey, I'm originally from Crystal Lake! I've been back a few times... man is it flat back there... ;) later, john meister snohomish, washington with an '83 J10 made in March 1983 :) At 09:43 AM 6/10/00 -0700, you wrote: >RHETTRO88-at-aol.com wrote: >I thought Chrysler continued production of the J-series trucks for the >1988 model year...ending production in 1987, badging the July-whenever >'87-built trucks as '88s, like they did for the 88 Eagle Wagon. >The '92 Grand Wagoneers were, I believe, mostly export models, but I've >heard a few 92 GWs were sold in the US. >Rhett <>< > >************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html >************************************** > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:11:44 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: looking at a rare one tomorrow... At 12:15 PM 6/10/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: >Oh, man, PLEASE don't make me want this vehicle. I've always REALLY wanted a >J truck... and with only 9K?!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!! Me so broke >there ain't no way... or is there???,,,, Lessee, Wife or J truck?.... >..... ...... ......... > JeepNut > don't drool on your screen... yet, I'll get more pictures soon: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/J-TRUCKS-assorted-pix/86-J20-9k-on-clock.jpg btw, my wife said, why don't YOU buy it? Then she made a point of making sure that I got rid of SuperDawg... you know, I don't think that woman likes my truck much... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:16:17 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: FSJ troubles in Latte Land... passing this along from Jim Blair... john Subject: Trouble in WA A: Anyone in my area that can help Justin with his thrust bearing trouble? He's in Redmond, WA. Life has not been too good since we last talked. I was wondering what advice you could give me on this situation: I just had the transmission completely rebuilt, the reason being that it started to slip and finally destroyed itself (rocks in a dryer sound)... I was right about 6 months ago when I talked to you about the problem of not shifting out of first. Adjusting the TV linkage helped, but it was also true I only had two gears, I hadn't forgotten the one I started in... :( Anyway it went fine from there until about two months ago when it did it again and there was nothing wrong with the throttle linkage... so I began the practice of "manually" shifting the 727, and after about 2 months of this I went ahead and adjusted the shift linkage according to Pains' and Childrens'.... It was bad, couldn't get it to idle as fast as before... didn't go too far until it broke. Drove it to the nearest tranny shop. It was nothing put metal shavings clogging the pan and the tranny cooler. So I got a full rebuild. (Hope you weren't holding your breath waiting for me to come over there with $$ for the brush guard...) When I got the Wag back from the shop, they informed me quite abashedly that I had shot main thrust bearings and if they had known this when they went to work they would have called me to let me know. He showed me the play in the shaft by levering out the shaft from behind the balancer with a prybar. Too much play, he said. Then I started the engine and it sucked back in. At low speeds, around 15 mph or while shifting sometimes the converter hits the flexplate bolts causing a metallic card-in-spokes noise, and there is some surging. I've been talking to a lot of mechs. and shops and I've gotten offers to drop the pan, inspect the shaft, and if possible, to loosen it and slip new bearings in. This work, by the way would NOT be warrantied. Some shops wouldn't do it at all. Most say it's a gamble. So it's either $2400 for a new reman. engine or $600 for this gamble operation... or cut my losses and sell the wag & it's brand new rebuilt tranny for a loss... Justin M Phillips justinmp-at-rcia.com ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:42:52 -0700 From: "Fitzgearld, Fredric" Subject: RE: fsj: we b back... Yup, Fab6 has shipped it's last chip. There's rumors that it will become a computer center. You know how rumors are though. They do Brad's kind of stuff in all over the place but Utah (real close to Moab) and Folsom, CA (close to the Rubicon) might be a nice choice. It's too stinkin' hot at Fab12/22 (Arizona) and Fab11/9/7 (NM). Now... There's a lot going on in Colorado Springs!!! That's where I'm headed (in 5-10 years). I think that I, my Unimog (it's too cool!!!!), and my little CJ (oh ya, and my family too) can be very happy there. FEF - -----Original Message----- From: Brad Seevers [mailto:bks-at-co.intel.com] Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 1:33 PM To: john Cc: Brad Seevers; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: we b back... > what, ya gonna move to Fab6? ;) I think Fab6 just shut down. There is another fab down there and they are building yet another. But I don't work in the fabs anyway. I guess I could learn though if thats what it takes to get some good weather! :) - -brad ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:54:05 -0700 From: "Fitzgearld, Fredric" Subject: fsj: RE: what's the worse that could happen? Lets say your carrying a load and you drop off a speed bump or a curb a bit too fast. You will cause the rear to drop and possibly compress the shocks too far. Just extend your bump stops so this can't happen. You will likely need the extended bumpstops anyway because you will be running bigger tires, right? The 9000's are a tough shock but you don't want to bottom them out or over extend them. They are not cheap. It's a real good idea to have limiting straps (if you will do hard core wheeling) and extended bumpstops (for tire rubbing and shock protection) anyway. FEF - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 12:32 AM To: xj-at-digest.net; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: what's the worse that could happen? What's the worse that could happen if I install shocks designed to work with a 2.5" lift and I haven't installed the lift yet? :) If I compress the shock too hard I'd guess it would damage it or bust off a shock mount... but I just can't see that happening on the street... right? I ordered the 9000s for my J10... got the ones for 2.5" of lift since I made the mistake of having too short of shocks on Old Blue... :) So, let me know if it's a really bad idea, I'll wait until I can rebuild the spring packs... thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:09:27 -0700 From: john Subject: RE: fsj: we b back... Fab 22??? wow... when I left intel in 85 they were just building fab 9... Unimog???? Sounds like I need to make a trip to Portland, eh? Did you sell your rolling parts collection, aka wide trac waggy, yet? :) john At 11:42 AM 6/10/00 -0700, Fitzgearld, Fredric wrote: >Yup, Fab6 has shipped it's last chip. There's rumors that it will become a >computer center. You know how rumors are though. > >They do Brad's kind of stuff in all over the place but Utah (real close to >Moab) and Folsom, CA (close to the Rubicon) might be a nice choice. It's >too stinkin' hot at Fab12/22 (Arizona) and Fab11/9/7 (NM). Now... There's >a lot going on in Colorado Springs!!! That's where I'm headed (in 5-10 >years). > >I think that I, my Unimog (it's too cool!!!!), and my little CJ (oh ya, and >my family too) can be very happy there. > >FEF - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:07:37 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s At 11:54 AM 6/10/00 -0700, Fitzgearld, Fredric wrote: >Lets say your carrying a load and you drop off a speed bump or a curb a bit >too fast. You will cause the rear to drop and possibly compress the shocks >too far. > >Just extend your bump stops so this can't happen. You will likely need the >extended bumpstops anyway because you will be running bigger tires, right? > >The 9000's are a tough shock but you don't want to bottom them out or over >extend them. They are not cheap. It's a real good idea to have limiting >straps (if you will do hard core wheeling) and extended bumpstops (for tire >rubbing and shock protection) anyway. > > >FEF > with the springs I have now I get very little flex... hey, it rides like a truck... ;) Guess I'll just have to make my lift kit when the shocks show up. I'm after ride and articulation. I've got several sets of Wagoneer springs that have nice arch in them, will remove select springs from my truck and replace them... Will leave the main springs on the truck and add the new pack. I did this on Old Blue and got almost 3 inches of lift, and maintained a nice ride... I may have to add an add-a-leaf to get the basic arch going if the springs don't work... I think they will though because the J10 is lighter than a wagoneer, so I'm optimistic I'll get lift by replacing the stiff J10 ones that are basically flat, with the WAgoneer ones with arch, from older 70's models... Anyone know what the difference in rating is on the 83 J10 springs versus say a 78 Wagoneer spring? I've seen something on it before. If memory serves me well, the J10's are supposed to be stiffer and rated at higher loads... will research it later... right now I'm gonna go look at that 86 J10 with only 9 thousand miles on it!!!! The picture is beautiful... I may be in trouble later today... Of course if I give up Superdawg I won't be in trouble... but that's gonna be hard, I looked long and hard to find a 6 cylinder stepside that was clean... Oh the trials and tribulations of life... (yeah, like this is a problem or something... ;) We are all so blessed it's not even funny... so, thankfully I go off to enjoy examining a mint condition J20. john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:25:30 -0700 From: "Fitzgearld, Fredric" Subject: RE: fsj: we b back... The Mog will be here in a few weeks. I have pictures.... I still have the Wide-Trac Waggy but I'm going to do some of the work to fix it up. I'm going to take off the '83 front clip, put in a new cam/stock intake/carb, and put the '78 Wide-Trac front clip on it with the rhino chaser grill. I'll get it all cleaned up and try to sell it for $2500. I'll sell it for that right now if someone wants a great project. I really wish I could keep it. It has a newish (none of the stuff has over 4000 miles on it) tranny, exhaust system, t-case, axles, and other stuff. I have $1200 in the tranny and exhaust alone. FEF - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 12:09 PM To: Fitzgearld, Fredric Cc: 'Brad Seevers'; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: RE: fsj: we b back... Fab 22??? wow... when I left intel in 85 they were just building fab 9... Unimog???? Sounds like I need to make a trip to Portland, eh? Did you sell your rolling parts collection, aka wide trac waggy, yet? :) john At 11:42 AM 6/10/00 -0700, Fitzgearld, Fredric wrote: >Yup, Fab6 has shipped it's last chip. There's rumors that it will become a >computer center. You know how rumors are though. > >They do Brad's kind of stuff in all over the place but Utah (real close to >Moab) and Folsom, CA (close to the Rubicon) might be a nice choice. It's >too stinkin' hot at Fab12/22 (Arizona) and Fab11/9/7 (NM). Now... There's >a lot going on in Colorado Springs!!! That's where I'm headed (in 5-10 >years). > >I think that I, my Unimog (it's too cool!!!!), and my little CJ (oh ya, and >my family too) can be very happy there. > >FEF - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:01:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: The things you see .. when you don't have a 35! This is a resend, because I didn't see it come through yesterday. I was stuck in rush hour traffic and what to my wondering eyes should appear? A long black limo fleet with cops from Rainier! (Hmm, sorta sounds like the intro to Rudolph!) I had 3 motorcyle cops pull up next to me and stare with itchy fingers as they herded the fleet through the backroads of Seattle, through the ghetto of Rainier beach (taking care to avoid Columbia city) (BTW, I meant a 35mm camera, in case you were wondering) And do you know who passed less than 5 feet from me? Our pal AL! (Funny thing is, Clinton is the one who will be known throughout history as the VICE-Prez!) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:06:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Sealey Subject: fsj: New Member, First 4wd Hi, I just bought a '77 Wagoneer with the 401 and hope to learn more about it. I actually have previous 401 experience but this one doesn't quite handle like my (long-departed and sorely missed) '73 Ambassador... I'll have plenty of questions later, right now it's Saturday and I wanna play with the new toy... Am I right in my belief that this has a 727 tranny? I haven't gotten under it and looked, but I've heard people insist 727 and others insist TH400. ===== Mike Sealey, San Francisco CA "The Ultimate Rambler - This Ain't No Yuppie Jeep" '77 Wagoneer 401 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: New Member, First 4wd A: If it's original (front driveshaft is on the passenger's side. At least here in America, unless it's postal :^) It's a TH400 with BorgWarner 1339 Quadratrack, and Dana 44 front and rear. Mike Sealey wrote: Hi, I just bought a '77 Wagoneer with the 401 and hope to learn more about it. I actually have previous 401 experience but this one doesn't quite handle like my (long-departed and sorely missed) '73 Ambassador... I'll have plenty of questions later, right now it's Saturday and I wanna play with the new toy... Am I right in my belief that this has a 727 tranny? I haven't gotten under it and looked, but I've heard people insist 727 and others insist TH400. ===== Mike Sealey, San Francisco CA "The Ultimate Rambler - This Ain't No Yuppie Jeep" '77 Wagoneer 401 ____________ ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:33:03 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: The things you see .. > I had 3 motorcyle cops pull up next to me and stare with itchy > fingers as they herded the fleet through the backroads of Seattle, > through the ghetto of Rainier beach (taking care to avoid Columbia city) What is it about you that has such an effect on law enforcement officials? Do you exude some kind of an aura? Do you have some kind of a kind of a "dangerous psychopath" or "untrustworthy malcontent" air about you? Are the demons of hell hanging around you and messing with everyone's mind? Maybe you need to see an exorcist (can the garlic, just read Acts). Enquiring minds want to know! Ray Drouillard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] The things you see .. A: Not entirely sure. Maybe it's the black truck, maybe it's my size (I'm 6 feet tall and 255lbs), or the fact I'm a legal alien (shoulda seen the fun I had getting my green card!) that doesn't like corruption and power mad totalitarians getting away with murder (so to speak) through their jackbooted thugs. (There are some of those in Canada too! Probably everywhere in the world. Funny part is I'm a peace loving guy. I've been to war. Wasn't fun) I wrote: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0I had 3 motorcyle cops pull up next to me and stare with itchy fingers as they herded the fleet through the backroads of Seattle, through the ghetto of Rainier beach (taking care to avoid Columbia city) Ray wrote: Jim, What is it about you that has such an effect on law enforcement officials? Do you exude some kind of an aura? Do you have some kind of a kind of a "dangerous psychopath" or "untrustworthy malcontent" air about you? Are the demons of hell hanging around you and messing with everyone's mind? Maybe you need to see an exorcist (can the garlic, just read Acts). Enquiring minds want to know! Ray Drouillard ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE:9000s, springs and 86 J20s A: When I researched the springs for doing Elmo (I still have those brand new 4" lift springs I paid $700 for waiting to go on the new frame) I found there were nearly a dozen different spring rates and packs for '83 alone! I got the front spring set built for a snowplow Cherokee, and rear set for a J10 with camper package. All multileaf for flex appeal! John wrote: with the springs I have now I get very little flex... hey, it rides like a truck... ;) Guess I'll just have to make my lift kit when the shocks show up. I'm after ride and articulation. I've got several sets of Wagoneer springs that have nice arch in them, will remove select springs from my truck and replace them... Will leave the main springs on the truck and add the new pack. I did this on Old Blue and got almost 3 inches of lift, and maintained a nice ride... I may have to add an add-a-leaf to get the basic arch going if the springs don't work... I think they will though because the J10 is lighter than a wagoneer, so I'm optimistic I'll get lift by replacing the stiff J10 ones that are basically flat, with the WAgoneer ones with arch, from older 70's models... Anyone know what the difference in rating is on the 83 J10 springs versus say a 78 Wagoneer spring? I've seen something on it before. If memory serves me well, the J10's are supposed to be stiffer and rated at higher loads... will research it later... right now I'm gonna go look at that 86 J10 with only 9 thousand miles on it!!!! The picture is beautiful... I may be in trouble later today... Of course if I give up Superdawg I won't be in trouble... but that's gonna be hard, I looked long and hard to find a 6 cylinder stepside that was clean... Oh the trials and tribulations of life... (yeah, like this is a problem or something... ;) We are all so blessed it's not even funny... so, thankfully I go off to enjoy examining a mint condition J20. john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:03:17 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: The things you see .. I go no where without a camera... ;) or my cell phone or my pager or something requiring a special license in WA state... or my water bottle... ;) so you've already been "bored" or is it gored??? rofl... john At 01:01 PM 6/10/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: ... >know who passed less than 5 feet from me? Our pal AL! (Funny thing is, >Clinton is the one who will be known throughout history as the >VICE-Prez!) >>************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 >http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html >************************************** > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:05:13 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: The things you see .. I've wondered the same thing... Sheesh... I don't get it either... maybe it's that knit cap when it's 70 degrees out or something... ;) john At 04:33 PM 6/10/00 -0400, Ray Drouillard wrote: >> I had 3 motorcyle cops pull up next to me and stare with itchy >> fingers as they herded the fleet through the backroads of Seattle, >> through the ghetto of Rainier beach (taking care to avoid Columbia city) > > >What is it about you that has such an effect on law enforcement officials? >Do you exude some kind of an aura? Do you have some kind of a kind of a >"dangerous psychopath" or "untrustworthy malcontent" air about you? Are the >demons of hell hanging around you and messing with everyone's mind? Maybe >you need to see an exorcist (can the garlic, just read Acts). > >Enquiring minds want to know! > >Ray Drouillard > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #886 *************************