From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jun 13 19:23:35 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 891 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: clunky brakes fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? fsj: re:engine compartment heat fsj: Re: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat fsj: pictures of the Turtle... fsj: lugnuts... Re: fsj: lugnuts... fsj: Re: lugnuts... Wagoneer dies ...was Re: fsj: Re: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat Re: fsj: lights... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 09:12:00 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: clunky brakes 
when I touch the brakes on superdawg I'm getting a clunk... mostly from
the left side...  whazzup???  

guess I'll find out when I take the front wheels off and look... :(


John -

check your sway bar bushings.  Could be the caliper throughbolt metal bushings, but my experience has been sway bar related.

- Landon
  ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:39:14 -0500 From: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com Subject: fsj: Re: What's The Old Fellow Attempting To Pull? Admiral "Coluch." wrote: > - Large mirrors, sliding rear window, carpeting, headliner, door trim >coverings, 360 engine with the factory towing package, auto trany, Chrome >sport wheels, chrome rear bumper, & deluxe leather wrapped steering wheel >This should all total around 4 bills extra. Actually, the sliding rear window isn't a more expensive option. It is cheaper then a solid rear window. Though some dealers will try to screw you. Last year after I was rammed from behind and went to get an estimate on replacing the rear window, the shop quoted me about twice as much to replace the solid window verses replacing the cheaper sliding rear window. They mentioned the reason was because so many more people get the sliding rear window instead of the solid that the cost has dropped on the sliding window. Later, Jamie Phillips '73 J4600 '77 F250 (soon to be gone) home email: jphil78888-at-aol.com work email: Jamie.L.Phillips-at-us.ul.com ********* Internet E-mail Confidentiality Disclaimer ********** This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please delete the e-mail and any attachments and notify Underwriters Laboratories Inc. at e-mail_Disclaimer-at-us.ul.com. UL does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission. ************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:01:53 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: re:engine compartment heat On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, fsj-digest wrote: >--> >-->fsj-digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 01 : Number 890 >--> fsj: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat >-->Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 06:42:05 -0600 >-->From: "Chuck Scappaticci" >-->Subject: fsj: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat >-->My question is what else can I do to improve air flow through the radiator >-->and out of the engine compartment. I'm thinking about removing the >-->evaporative canister (which blocks air flow, soaks up heat and makes the >-->engine really hard to work on), removing the fan clutch (so the fan spins >-->all of the time), putting on an aftermarket fan with more cfm. etc.. Any >-->suggestions? Thanks... one thing you could do is to adjust your hood so it sits up in the back, use washers or something, and remove the rubber strip. I've done this before on mustangs and it works well at keeping the engine compartment cool and allowing more airflow... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:31:20 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat > Hi, I've got an 88 GW with the stock 360 V8 in it. I'm running an > Edelbrock 1405 Carb/Manifold and stainless free flow exhaust including the > CAT/back. The engine compartment has always been really hot. I've > installed the largest "towing package" radiator I could find, removed the > air injection to the exhaust manifold (still goes to the catalytic), > removed the under hood insulation, moved the ignition coil off of the > manifold to the fender, and removed most of the "alien pollution hoses". > The jeep still passes the emission test/inspection easily. The engine runs > at the Rober Shaw thermostat level of 160 degrees unless its above 80 then > creeps up to about 180/190 degrees which is when the Jeep starts to vapor > lock. I have to say that I have found that running a 190deg 'stat gives the best results, but I live in NW Montana. > I plan to fix the vapor lock problem this week by replacing my existing > electric fuel pump (make unknown) with a Holley pro electric fuel pump, > bypassing the mechanical and running metal fuel line along the firewall into > the carb. This should avoid the dreaded "heat soaking phenomon" and by > angling the fuel line into the bypass ensure only cold fuel hits the carb at > start up. In my own experience, living at 3000ft, and traveling higher in the mountains, all metal lines are bad karma for vapor lock. You need SOME rubber lines to allow for a little expansion. Best bet is to use some good insulation on your fuel lines underhood. Also, check your exhast heat valve. If it isn't opening, you're sending HOT gases under the carb at all times, not just at warm up. You also need a phenolic (plastic) isolator under the carb if you are in a hot climate. The stack goes:carb,gasket,isolator,gasket,manigfold. > My question is what else can I do to improve air flow through the radiator > and out of the engine compartment. I'm thinking about removing the > evaporative canister (which blocks air flow, soaks up heat and makes the > engine really hard to work on), removing the fan clutch (so the fan spins > all of the time), putting on an aftermarket fan with more cfm. etc.. Any > suggestions? Thanks... DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REMOVE THE EVAPORATIVE CANISTER!!! That is the only place your gas tank has to vent through, and without it, you will suffer all sorts of odd fuel system quirks, besides beings in danger of having your own FSJBQ. As to the fan clutch, if you have a good thermostatically operated one, it is going to be engaged all the time it is so hot anyway. And believe me, you won't like what no fan clutch does to the mileage. Also, I doubt that any aftermarket fan pulls as much air as that big 5 blade OEM. I think you could fly a WWII F4U Corsair with mine! Be sure you have the OEM fan shroud. The DSPO of my Waggy offed it, and it makes a difference. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:00:50 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: pictures of the Turtle... ...up close and personal... the XJ with a custom exoskeleton... MOAB tested and approved !!! http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/GoneTurtle pictures of dan starc's XJ... because of an accident on 128th at the exit for I-5 I ended up missing lunch... but got to the place just before dan left to go back to work... :) here they are: check out the June-2000 directory http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/DanStarc-89XJ/ john - -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- An article in the Seattle Washington Post-Intelligencer dealt with accidental deaths caused by physicians (based on research by Laura Key) Number of physicians in the US - 700,000 Accidental deaths caused /year - 120,000 Accidental deaths/physician = 0.171 based on readily available statistics found on the internet: Number of gun owners in the US = 80,000,000 Number of accidental gun deaths/year (all age groups) = 1,500 Accidental deaths/gun owner = 0.0000188 THEREFORE, one may derive the following: That Doctors are approximately 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners. - -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/GunControl-the-proven-record.html - -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:30:16 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: lugnuts... two questions: 1) what's the lug nut torque setting supposed to be for a J10? 2) if a couple of the holes are elongated, should I replace the rim? I called the shop, they claim they didn't remove the front tires when they did the front end alignment... I didn't watch 'em, but it didn't take 'em long to do it, and it there wasn't any reason for them to... so I'm perplexed why or how they worked loose...guess I'll need to check 'em more often... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:47:43 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: lugnuts... thanx... btw, is 75lbs about the same as just before I twist the stud off by standing on the tire iron? ;) here's some pix of the lugnuts, and Superdawg with the "Turtle" Xj. http://www.wagoneers.com/83Stepside/tires/LugNuts/ (see elongated...) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/superdawg-and-the-TURTLE-XJ.jpg john At 06:33 PM 6/13/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: >Hi John, > The 84-88 FSM for Grand Wagoneer/Truck calls it: >Wheel Retaining Nuts > 75 ftlb for the AMC/Jeep > 120 ftlb for Model 60 > JeepNut > >john wrote: > >> two questions: >> >> 1) what's the lug nut torque setting supposed to be for a J10? >> 2) if a couple of the holes are elongated, should I replace the >> rim? >> >> I called the shop, they claim they didn't remove the front tires >> when they did the front end alignment... I didn't watch 'em, but >> it didn't take 'em long to do it, and it there wasn't any reason >> for them to... so I'm perplexed why or how they worked loose...guess >> I'll need to check 'em more often... >> >> john >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >-- >---------------------------------------------------------------- >'87 Street Comanche #24/100 >'88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... >'92 Cherokee >---------------------------------------------------------------- > > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ ...don't leave life without Jesus, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 17:57:52 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: lugnuts... > two questions: > > 1) what's the lug nut torque setting supposed to be for a J10? > 2) if a couple of the holes are elongated, should I replace the > rim? 1) 80-110 ft/lbs. 2) How elongated? Are the seats for the nuts tapered (steel wheel style) or square (mag style)? If they are square shouldered and the elongation is limited to the wheel stud hole, they are probably OK. As a matter of prudence, I wouldn't trust them. You could have them machined to the next larger size, but then you'll have to have the axles drilled for the larger studs. All in all, a real hassle. kim '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:20:17 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Wagoneer dies ...was Re: fsj: Re: 88 GW Engine Compartment Heat Apologies to Mr. Scappaticci, as I don't have anything helpful to offer re: advice to his questions. I agree with what he reports, but.... He brought up a number of very interesting questions however, perhaps related to my continuing problem of my Waggie dropping dead. It seems to have acquired narcolepsy. Was wondering if someone would explain vapor lock. Have heard of it for years. No clue what it REALLY means. As it is 95 here today in the shade, and will be that and worse until October, perhaps I should find out more? And Mr. Smith's comments about the exhaust heat valve, phenolic isolator, and the evap canister are all intriguing. Please elaborate on each. I wonder if the evap canister maybe a vacumn related problem could be causing me a fuel starvation? Whadda think? Thanks! JeepNut Kim Smith wrote: > > Hi, I've got an 88 GW with the stock 360 V8 in it. I'm running an > > Edelbrock 1405 Carb/Manifold and stainless free flow exhaust including the > > CAT/back. The engine compartment has always been really hot. I've > > installed the largest "towing package" radiator I could find, removed the > > air injection to the exhaust manifold (still goes to the catalytic), > > removed the under hood insulation, moved the ignition coil off of the > > manifold to the fender, and removed most of the "alien pollution hoses". > > The jeep still passes the emission test/inspection easily. The engine runs > > at the Rober Shaw thermostat level of 160 degrees unless its above 80 then > > creeps up to about 180/190 degrees which is when the Jeep starts to vapor > > lock. > > I have to say that I have found that running a 190deg 'stat gives the best > results, but I live in NW Montana. > > > I plan to fix the vapor lock problem this week by replacing my existing > > electric fuel pump (make unknown) with a Holley pro electric fuel pump, > > bypassing the mechanical and running metal fuel line along the firewall > into > > the carb. This should avoid the dreaded "heat soaking phenomon" and by > > angling the fuel line into the bypass ensure only cold fuel hits the carb > at > > start up. > > In my own experience, living at 3000ft, and traveling higher in the > mountains, > all metal lines are bad karma for vapor lock. You need SOME rubber lines > to allow for a little expansion. Best bet is to use some good insulation on > your > fuel lines underhood. Also, check your exhast heat valve. If it isn't > opening, > you're sending HOT gases under the carb at all times, not just at warm up. > You also need a phenolic (plastic) isolator under the carb if you are in a > hot > climate. The stack goes:carb,gasket,isolator,gasket,manigfold. > > > My question is what else can I do to improve air flow through the radiator > > and out of the engine compartment. I'm thinking about removing the > > evaporative canister (which blocks air flow, soaks up heat and makes the > > engine really hard to work on), removing the fan clutch (so the fan spins > > all of the time), putting on an aftermarket fan with more cfm. etc.. > Any > > suggestions? Thanks... > > DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES REMOVE THE > EVAPORATIVE CANISTER!!! That is the only place your gas tank has to > vent through, and without it, you will suffer all sorts of odd fuel system > quirks, > besides beings in danger of having your own FSJBQ. > As to the fan clutch, if you have a good thermostatically operated one, it > is > going to be engaged all the time it is so hot anyway. And believe me, you > won't > like what no fan clutch does to the mileage. Also, I doubt that any > aftermarket > fan pulls as much air as that big 5 blade OEM. I think you could fly a WWII > F4U Corsair with mine! Be sure you have the OEM fan shroud. The > DSPO of my Waggy offed it, and it makes a difference. > > kim > '80 Wagoneer "J0E", 360 v2,T-727,NP219 - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:41:54 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: lights... Hi John, I sent the questioner some links to browse, and I recalled reading this on the AutoBulbDepot.com website... "Q. What are High Intensity White or Super White bulbs? Does Super White make my lamps brighter? A. Autobulbdepot.com offers head lamp bulb upgrades with a "High Intensity White" or "Super White" coating. This coating is similar in principle to Ion Crystal* but uses a pale bluish tint to the glass to filter out of the yellow spectrum light resulting in a standard halogen bulb producing a light that simulates the ultra white color temperature of H.I.D. lamps. This tint does not make the bulbs brighter on its own but makes the light output whiter. To also offer brighter output, most of these bulbs are either higher wattage or they use XTRA* technology. PIAA bulbs that incorporate BOTH Super White AND XTRA* technology are called Platinum series bulbs." ...and about the XTRA technology they describe this... "Commonly referred to as XTRA* bulbs, Super J Beams, Hyper Bulbs or even Xenon bulbs by the different lamp manufacturers these bulbs use more tightly wound spiral filament made of finer wire in a precise mixture of halogen and xenon gasses that is under much higher pressure than a normal halogen bulb. The presense of xenon gas under high pressure provides an increased rate of halogen regeneration resulting in a very intense light. Depending on the design, a 55 watt version of this type of bulb can produce the equivalent output to an 85 watt or higher standard halogen bulb but without the amperage draw and heat of the standard 85 watt bulb. These new high output bulbs are becoming increasingly popular because they offer amazing output at relatively low amperage draws and heat generation." THAT sounds like the M17 "Magic" bulbs right? I get from the reading that your M17's ought to be brighter than a PIAA SuperWhite. Reflector housing inequalities not taken into consideration of course... I suspect that would be negligible comparing the PIAA to the IPF. JeepNut john wrote: > I saw a question about the IPF lights in one of the digests... > > It was something like, "what is an IPF light" or something along the lines > of my first reaction to finding out about them... I mean I knew Bosch, > and Hella, and had seen PIAA's... but IPF? Come on, whazzthat... :) > > Anyway, I think the question related to the IPF replacement headlights. > I think the JeepNut just got a set of the IPF replacement headlights... > > They are just like the Hellas or Bosch, only the lens quality is much better. > They have superb optics. Light pattern will be the same. However, all > the lenses aren't the same... > One of the guys with Hella lamps came by and a rock chip had busted one. :( > > I was gonna put plastic covers over my IPF replacement headlights > and the guys at ARB told me not too... And then looking at the difference > in lens quality, and the fact they've been on now for two years, and two > windshields later... :) I'd say they're probably ok. :) As far as cost, the > Candellas are made for Bosch are the most affordable, with Hella next > and then IPF. All of them have the same light pattern, european style. I > don't think there is a lot of difference, but I could be wrong. I haven't > compared them side by side... All I know is it's one of the first mods > I make to a Jeep, and even to my Benz's. > > After having Hellas and Bosch over the years (and in Europe) and then seeing > the IPF... I'm drawn to them like a moth to a light... ;) The quality > of the glass is what attracts me... guess it has to do with photography > and having worked with optics in photolithography... :) ... > I love 'em. Can't explain it. But they just look nice. It reminds me > of a Zeiss lense... Ever held a Zeiss 135mm lens in your hand and looked > through it? Heck with taking pictures, I just want to stare at the lens... ;) > > I believe Central 4wd carries all of the brands. If you're on a budget, > go for the least expensive and get some sort of cover for 'em. The light > pattern will be fine. You won't regret not buying the quality, unless you > catch a stone without a guard... of course clear silicon works as a fix... ;) > > All of 'em take the H4 bulbs. IPF/ARB has several different ones available. > Doug bought my set of the 85/140(?)'s I had waiting for my lenses when his PIAA > Superwhites (??) blew out... he noted the IPF lamps were much brighter. I > had a set of IPF lamps in my Benz that were great, low wattage with lots of > white light... but they don't carry them any more... :( I've got the > marine blue ones in the little wagoneer... nice white light, but not as > much intensity... I'm really bummed that they don't carry the bulb I had > in my Benz... it was perfect... :( Oh well, I know there is a comparable > bulb out there... I'll just wait for someone to share. How long is that > sale Bill? ;) > > When I installed the IPFs and ARB H4 wiring loom in Superdawg they were out > of the IPF lamps, so I bought plain old Sylvannia H4 bulbs down at schucks... > man, the amp guage lets me know they draw more current... I've got to get some > IPF or PIAA lamps... I noticed that Central 4wd has a sale on the PIAA > Super whites, anyone tried those? The ad reads they produce more light > than comparable bulbs while producing more light... With an 18 year old > electrical system I think I like that idea... :) Bill Van Tuyl, what's your take > on the difference in the bulbs and prices? You've tested these things out... > What's your recommendation? I want the most light, white, with the least > amount of current draw... at least until I can upgrade my alternator... :) > > I've also got other IPF lights on my Jeeps... on the little wagoneer I've > got the J-01's (combo fog and "driving" light, the fog light is good, I'd > recommend getting the 610's rather), 630s (driving lights, spend a bit > more and get the 800 or 900s...) and the ARB backup light (cool setup). > On superdawg I've got the 800DDCS driving lights, (the factory fog lights) > and soon the ARB backup light... > > I may also reallocate the 630's to my roll bar. :) I'm also thinking about > putting lower wattage bulbs in the 800's... you ought to see my amp gauge > peg when I hit the high beams and the 800's... :) Of course it is hard > to see it since it's really, really bright outside at that point. :) (I took > the covers off last night during a run to the Home Depot and had some fun... ;) > > I think the whole line of lights that ARB offers under the IPF brand is on > their website. I was really drooling over one set of lights they had there... > forgot the part number but they're like $700!!! high/low beam, high beam > is something like 170W... one of the guys has 'em on his rig and was talking > about how much light they put out... :) After wheeling in the rain up > in the mountains you understand how important it is to have lights like these. :) > > On my 85 xj Turbo Diesel I ran hella repl headlights, hella fogs and dick > cepek driving lights... it was nice to see things up there in the hills... :) > > FWIW, I actually increase my insurance coverage to cover my light investment. :) > These things ain't cheap... If you get a good quality light like a PIAA or > IPF or Hella or Bosch, you might consider talking to your insurance > company about additional coverage. It wasn't that much more... > > I'm working on an article for FSJ magazine on the ARB H4 wiring loom. It'll be > a companion article to the series on wiring... Which reminds me I should be working > on Wiring 102 for the FSJ... ;) Biff Buford and Billy Bob Joe McWheeler are still standing > by the side of the road after experiencing a total black out from turning on too many lights... ;) > (he tried to draw over 80 amps from a 34 year old 30amp alternator... connected with old > speaker wire... ;) (I won't identify my sources... but I've seen some wild stuff... my only > regret is that I wasn't as active in photography way back when I first got into this stuff... ;) > > later, > john > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #891 *************************