From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jul 29 11:56:22 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, July 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 957 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: IT DIES Re: [Re: fsj: It DIES!] Re: fsj: an article on the Grand Cherokee TURBO DIESEL fsj: exhaust sizing - FYI fsj: Proper process fsj: Carb tip fsj: Apology fsj: RE: Carb tip RE: fsj: an article on the Grand Cherokee TURBO DIESEL fsj: 79 J10...$50 fsj: 79 J10...$50 fsj: carb or MPI? fsj: (non-fsj) Guns in America: Another View fsj: Rear axle and departure angle help fsj: Someone tried to steal Blackie last night! fsj: Re: Someone tried to steal Blackie! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:33:02 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: IT DIES Good Heavens Man, someone has you locked in a cube? JeepNut Landon Tesar wrote: > Hi, Steve. > > Well, I can tell you, I'd rather be in Memphis working on the Jeep than > down here in my cube. > > Maybe something is heating up and cutting out, not allowing any voltage > to the ignition system ??? Like an ignition switch ??? Can you bypass > the ignition switch ??? Just to see how it does ?? You know where the > resistance wire is... seems like if you hooked that to the battery > (maybe add an inline fuse) and the other end to the coil, you'd rule out > a possibility, or several possibilities. Also, there are fusible links > throughout the wiring diagram. Maybe buy a new one and hook it in > parallel with any fusible link to see where the problem goes away, or > test the fusible links for continuity immediately upon failure. Could > go through a beer or two while waiting. > > - Landon - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:38:47 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: It DIES!] Hi Mr. Blair, You know I almost wish it was. It's the "common" blue with tan interior. JeepNut James Blair wrote: > A: I had a nasty thought. This isn't a GREEN Jeep by any chance? > (horrible to think someone else may be allergic to green cars!) > > JeepNut wrote: > lurched, pop noise under the hood as it cut out, stumbled, but then it > smoothed as I let off the accel. Traveled another mile level grade no > apparent problem, easing off the throttle all the while toward my turn. > If your timing chain jumped a notch, and IF you haven't yet adjusted > timing since the problem, THEN your timing should be off by a few > degrees from where you last set it since the distributor is driven by a > gear on the camshaft, which itself is driven by the chain. That seems > like the easiest test if you know what your timing was before the > incident. > Anyway, this is really starting to sound like voodoo. Yikes. I'm at a > complete loss anymore. I'd go thru the electrical system again, testing > with timing lite to see--when it sputters--if it is due to electrical or > fuel. That's the bottom line--that question. Fuel or electrical. Answer > that and you're halfway home. > Michael > --- > Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every > complex problem, there is a solution that > is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. > Menken > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:41:00 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: an article on the Grand Cherokee TURBO DIESEL The Diesel engine is the most efficient, durable internal combustion engine ever designed. The first working prototype was more efficient than most of today's gas engines! They shouldn't spew black smoke unless they are setup incorrectly, poorly maintained or broken. Truckers have a bad habit of cranking the pump up to get off the line faster... If you've never driven a Diesel, or an FSJ for that matter, how can someone explain it to you? The Diesel engine isn't comlicated, hard to work on and it's not expensive to repair for most things. (of course ignorant mechanics tend to run the bill up because they lack training, knowledge and skill, but hey, they're equal opportunity idiots... they shaft everyone... ;) Ignorance of the Diesel and GM's terrible attempt at converting gas engines to Diesels have hurt a very viable alternative. Any where else in the world recognizes the benefits of the Diesel engine for economy, longevity, low end torque, minimal maintenance, and even less pollutants, ralph nader notwithstanding in his ignorance... :) Diesels produce less toxins than gas engines, and depending on which way you measure it, less total pollutants. They produce little or no carbon monoxide. The stuff that comes out of a gas engine will kill you quickly... EVER heard of someone locking themselves in a garage with a Diesel and killing themselves? Didn't think so... So think about that when you get behind one... it may not smell nice, but it won't kill you... unless of course you stand in front, or behind it and the driver doesn't see you... ;) Diesels are awesome. dieseljohn At 07:22 PM 7/28/00 -0500, JeepNut wrote: >Hi John, > What's the fascination with diesel engines? > From the laymens ground, the fuel stinks to high heaven (who wants to pump it), the >exhaust stinks to high heaven, nearly every diesel that I've seen that was old enough >to need a car wash spewed black soot into the air like a banshee and I'll do nearly >everything in my power to avoid getting stuck behind another slow moving, spewing, >stinking diesel ANYTHING. > I have been told that they run without much maintenance but when they need it you >have to mortgage the house to get it fixed.... > So there must be some technical reasons that they continue to try to put them in >passenger vehicles. I tend to think they ought to outlaw them outright (sorry) but >give me your side of the issue. > JeepNut > > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ http://www.wagoneers.com/think-about-this.html Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:45:02 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: exhaust sizing - FYI thanx Landon, gonna share this with the other lists... john Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:32:48 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: Exhaust sizing - high moment of inertia motor(6) you want to approach laminar flow with your exhaust stream - laminar flow occurs at a static 1800 fpm and I think ends at about 3250 feet per min. That's for air, exhaust is a bit lighter and hotter so YMMV, but: So I'd try to size where you'll hit the low end at cruise rpm and the high end at the top of your horsepower curve. The laminar flow will help to suck air through the engine and improve volumetric efficiency, making this a rather iterative equation, not to mention heat loss - that's why I quit mechanical eng, too many equations, every class - a new set of equations with new ways to get screwed by the instructor. Fundamentally, inside the exhaust tube where it's approaching a smooth flow: volume/time = (Area) x (velocity) X CFM = (3.1416 x dia x dia / 4) x 1800 fpm So for your 5 spd and 31" tires, you're probably cruising at 1300? rpm, what was that a 300 cfm carb ? well figure out your CFM from displacement x rpm x volumetric efficiency / (6 revolutions / displacement): 258 x 1400 x .8 / 6 = 54180 cubic inches/min Divide by 1728 cu in/cu ft = 27.87 cfm. ( interesting calculation from here re: mileage and fuel mixture - 2 cfm of gas at 15:1 ratio ? or is that 15 parts 'oxygen', only 8?% of air, so more likely) 27.87 = (3.1416 x dia x dia / 4) x 1800 fpm Solve for dia. dia. = sqr root ((4 x 27.87)/(1800 x 3.1416)) = .1404 ft. x 12 in/ft = 1.68 inches If these assumptions are correct, you won't be making good flow at cruise with anything larger than 1.75" pipe. For power, where do those sixes stop making power ? 3750 rpm ? We don't want to violate the 3250 fpm or we'll create turbulent flow, which is inefficient. Volumetric efficiency improves, but not much with near stock cam and manifolds and ports and carb....do you have a cold air intake ? that would help... 258 x 3750 x 1.05 / 6 = 169312.5 cubic inches/min. = 97.98 cfm (no wonder you like the smaller carb.) Solve for dia. dia. = sqr root ((4 x 97.98)/(3250 x 3.1416)) = .196 ft x 12 in/ft = 2.35 inches. This is the smallest you should have for max. power. Feel free to change assumptions, I'll check on the window for laminar flow. It's not easy to achieve (bends, junctions, irregular impulses, mufflers, catalytic converters, all play a role.) I suggest 2.25 inches, as straight and uninterrupted as you can get it with a glass pack muffler - man my TR250 used to sound great! Do you remember the 1985 Mustang 302 with factory headers and dual exhaust- the primaries were so teeny, 1" if I recall, but the motor had a pretty high torque peak. So headers are a good thing, when sized properly for your speed range. Criticism is encouraged. - - - Landon '89 GW Austin,TX - ------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ http://www.wagoneers.com/think-about-this.html Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:01:46 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Proper process OK, I have browsed quickly everyone's responses so far. And REALLY appreciate all. JFYI, the thing started and ran first bat out of the box this morning. Ran for 45 minutes, but could not risk late to work so used XJ today. So I drove it around the acreage for a while, with no problems so I shut it down. Seemed like it was running great. I am going to 1. pull the plugs for an inspection. They are new, so should be good looking, May find something interesting. 2. do a full set of compression checks. Should I check the compression with engine Hot or Cold? (please say cold) 3. check again all vacumn lines I have replace seriously ALL vacumn lines running from the carb, engine, canister, etc. I spent about $100.00 on 5 different sized rolls, maybe 6. Ran every line from each CTO valve, etc. I have NOT done any vacumn lines from the transmission (if there are any). 4. gonna pull the fuel pickup assy out of the tank to check it. Didn't I see someone post something about pulling this thing out from the TOP? Last time I was in the fuel tank to replace the gauge, etc was a couple of years ago and I dropped the tank to do so. Replaced all the rubber lines to it at that time too. But it was empty then. The silly thing is full right now. Of course. Any ideas how to drain if I decide to examine the inside of the plastic tank? Could be a kid dropped marbles in there. Stranger things have happened around our place.... Wish me luck, this should keep me busy for the weekend. Along with getting the 486SX-33 (eek!) computer I've had for 2 weeks now off the bench. Fortunately I do PC support (not nearly at John's level) for free for friends and relatives of theirs, so they are patient and understanding about my Jeep jones. And that incessant grass thing... Then I am going to HAVE to start with wiring and I think I'll just start taping a new wire to the old one and pulling new wires. The wiring is all very dry under there and a few have cracked insulation. To date I have just used liquid electrical tape to seal the 3-4 cracks I've found against shorting. Maybe it isn't working or I will find more. Thanks again to all. Will report more after I'm good and greasy! JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:07:49 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Carb tip For those who've tried in vain to easily adjust their Idle screw settings on a hot 360... It's 5/16" fuel line hose you want for the idle adjustment screws. ;-) Leave about 10" on the left one and 7" on the right one and you can adjust at will, with no burns or shocks from the coil (tach side) - man that'll get your attention! What is that-like 20K volts? The fuel hose is thick walled enough to allow easy rotation of the screws. I dismounted the carb and pushed on the lines, then remounted it. Will probably leave the hoses on for a while, until the thing runs more consistently. JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:13:44 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Apology I should apologize to the group at large for using the profane language while lashing out in anger at my Jeep. I should never have mentioned that .. uh, another vehicle so specifically while talking about getting rid of my FSJ. I DIDN'T MEAN IT... REALLY.... well except the part about the Forward Control Jeep. :-) I was just a little frustrated at the time and my fingers rattled off just what I was thinking... without thinking. I beg the pardon of all Jeeps I may have offended. ;-) JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:21:12 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Carb tip That's a good tip, I think I'll try that. Think 20k volts is bad, make the same mistake with a 40k super coil, Ouch! *==========================================* * JC Jones * * 76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) * * 84 Grand Wagoneer (Un-Named as of yet) * * http://www.wagoneer.net * *==========================================* > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > JeepNut > Sent: Friday, July 28, 2000 7:08 PM > To: _FSJ List > Subject: fsj: Carb tip > > > For those who've tried in vain to easily adjust their Idle screw > settings on a hot 360... > > It's 5/16" fuel line hose you want for the idle adjustment > screws. ;-) Leave about 10" on the left one and 7" on the right > one and you can adjust at will, with no burns or shocks from the > coil (tach side) - man that'll get your attention! What is > that-like 20K volts? > The fuel hose is thick walled enough to allow easy rotation > of the screws. > I dismounted the carb and pushed on the lines, then remounted > it. Will probably leave the hoses on for a while, until the > thing runs more consistently. > JeepNut > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: an article on the Grand Cherokee TURBO DIESEL On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, JC Jones wrote: >-->Wow, Go John... >--> >-->I agree with John, Diesel engines are far more efficient and produce a lot more low end torque than a gasoline engine. There are a There are a few things I'm kind of passionate about. Diesels b one of them. ;) UNIX, the Bible, Amsoil air filters and recycling are a few of 'em... I'll make a list of the others if you'd like... of course it's more fun to see folks randomnly hit one and set me off... ;) I think we should declare Diesel's birthday an international holiday. :) I have technical info on Diesels gathered in http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz :) dieseljohn :) ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:34:46 -0700 From: Thunderbird Subject: fsj: 79 J10...$50 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=389295248&r=0&t=0 On Ebay...If someone gets it and parts it, let me know! Brian 78 J10-4 4bbl/360/TH400/PTQT/D44/D44 97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 V8/Sport "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order." - --Ed Howdershelt ______________________________________________________ Get your free web-based email at http://www.xoom.com Birthday? Anniversary? Send FREE animated greeting cards for any occasion at http://greetings.xoom.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:52:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: 79 J10...$50 A: Good thing it's a '79 and not an '80! I need 3.31 rear axle for mine! (Jeez! You guys keep tempting me! I have to sell the XJ and get rid of the Dodge van before my wife will consider letting me have a parts truck!) Brian wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=389295248&r=0&t=0 On Ebay...If someone gets it and parts it, let me know! Brian ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 00:43:22 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: carb or MPI? Tom, I've got SuperDawg mostly dialed in. The remaining items are: valve cover, carb/FI, paint job, bed liner, seats with headrest, new exhaust(?), finish the lift and then convince the wife that she likes him. :) The stock carb does not seem to respond well off idle, or I'm a klutz and don't know how to operate a manual well... which doesn't make sense since I've had a manual in 29 out of 64 vehicles. :) However, I am comfortable with the 5 speed in this rig. It doesn't bother my leg or lower back like some rigs have. (I sold my Turbo Diesel XJ because my 5th lumbar was damaged... and the seating arrangement aggravated it and the problem with my sciatica... :( I've talked to others with XJ's and they had the same problem... Not sure what's different, but I'm happy with the T-5 and am convinced it is a World Class... I've had it long enough and abused it enough that if it wasn't, it would surely be scrap metal by now. :) So, I was just about ready to call "thinkjeep" and order a valve cover and the Weber 32/38 carb... when I read in the back of JP magazine where someone asked the question about whether to go to that carb or the holley... and the editor replied, skip the carb and go for the Fuel Injection system. Which of course spun me up and got me to thinking... I can spend $350 for the carb, or spend another grand or so and get fuel injection and maybe 40hp more... and maybe better fuel economy and just overall better efficiency and driveability... So, some questions on the MPI. 0) what's your overall impression and feelings about the conversion? 1) do I have to convert to a powerboost brake setup? (is it required?) 2) how much is involved in the conversion? (could I do it in a weekend?) 3) did your fuel economy go up? (how much apx?) 4) are there any drawbacks? 5) any regrets? 6) is there a noticeable improvement in power? The budgets at work are real tight this year so I don't think I can arrange a training trip down to your part of the country to check your system out... besides, it's your turn to visit me. Drive on up. ;) I'll introduce you to the "man" at Dixie's BBQ. :) Hope all is well with you and your crew. :) john meister ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 ============================================================= Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 ============================================================= john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.freegift.net/ http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:20:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: (non-fsj) Guns in America: Another View - --WebTV-Mail-8607-67 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit http://thisistrue.com/peeve/guns.html - --WebTV-Mail-8607-67 X-URL-Title: Guns in America: Another View Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit http://thisistrue.com/peeve/guns.html - --WebTV-Mail-8607-67-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 10:30:12 -0700 From: "Fitzgearld, Fredric" Subject: fsj: Rear axle and departure angle help All, As some of you know, I have been trying to decide if I want to keep my Waggy ('83 Waggy with '78 WT running gear) or sell it. I have decided to keep it, for a number of reasons (and the people rejoiced!!!). Now that I have made the decision to keep it, I need some help. I'm really love the Waggy but the rear wheel wells are too small for 35" tires and the departure angle stinks. To fix these things, I hope to move the rear axle back a few inches. If I can move the rear axle a few inches, I might graft the WT front fender flares in the rear. My goal is to have as little lift as possible to get the 35" tires under there. I will likely run a 3" lift only because I think I can get more flex from a lifted leaf then the stock ones. IF the stock leafs will travel as well as some 3" lift ones, I will keep it stock. This will not be a monster trail rig, I have a real monster for the tough stuff. I just want this rig to be fairly capable. Any thoughts? Thanks, FEF ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 11:35:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Someone tried to steal Blackie last night! I captured him and here's his pic. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=13998&a=3845965&p=25233434 ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:17:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Someone tried to steal Blackie! A: After having pet rabbits for a couple years, possums are easy to catch! John wrote: how'd you catch him? At 11:15 AM 7/29/00 -0700, you wrote: I caught him last night trying to get away with Blackie. I captured him, and he is now stewing over his fate while waiting for the authorities. I asked him his name, but he just played possum. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #957 *************************