From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Aug 1 08:07:52 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, August 1 2000 Volume 01 : Number 964 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: I want one of these now Re: fsj: Schematics (ok, stop laughing) fsj: RE: Re: 90 seconds of zen Re: fsj: Re: 1981 j10 pick-up fsj: Disc brake conversion kits Re: fsj: Disc brake conversion kits fsj: Re: Thanks for the quick reply and advice fsj: rear discs fsj: Re: last of the '89 XJ parts fsj: Re: Stainless brakes (or something I deleted) Re: fsj: Re: Thanks for the quick reply and advice fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:37:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: I want one of these now A: Wal now son, as ah tells mah wife (she was born in Texas and raised in TN, WV and the Azores), I AM from thuh South! (Southern BC to be exact!) The only thing nearly on blocks in my yard is Blackie! (due to the axle ratio swap) and the '84 GW frame is just a lying on the ground next to the 3 trailer frames I have. When I flew back east to meet her folks, they said it was funny how I said "aboot" instead of abayout, but they took a shine to me anyway! ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:43:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Schematics (ok, stop laughing) A: They do for '84. Straight from Damn Crying (shame what they done to our) Jeep. Dyment had mine. Jeep nut wrote: Anyone know a source for electrical schematics, diagrams, drawings, crayon renderings, or what not of the electrical system for the Grand Wagoneers? The shop manual is really quite nice with lots of great detailed descriptions. Anything at all similar for the electrics? =A0 =A0 =A0 JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:59:49 -0500 From: "The Bear Paw Canoe Co." Subject: fsj: RE: Re: 90 seconds of zen > A: Sorry guys. That bit of non-FSJ wasn't supposed to go here. I fat > fingered the send button! >############### No problem, I kinda liked it :-) Doug ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:09:22 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: 1981 j10 pick-up On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, JeepNut wrote: >-->Hi Mr. Hiatt, >--> Wow. Must be a weatherstripping day. >--> I would be VERY surprised to find that you can't get this stuff from >--> Specialty Parts, >--> 800-227-3848 >--> >--> JeepNut do you think they'd have a rear step bumper for an 83 J10 Stepside??? ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:26:41 -0700 From: Clark Novak Subject: fsj: Disc brake conversion kits Found a company called Stainless Steel Brakes in New York state that makes conversion kits to take drum brakes to discs. Most of what they have listed for Jeeps falls into the XJ category, but there are a couple interesting items, including a kit for AMC-20 axles with Warn hubs, and 74-91 Wag/Cheros with the Dana 44. Here's the link: http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/jeep.htm Clark Novak 87 GW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:37:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Disc brake conversion kits A: Since the model 20 and D44 share the same drum and shoes, and I think the same backing plates, I would extrapolate the kit will work for the '80 to '87 as well. Someone (WILL?) got the part # for the backing plates? Clark=A0Novak wrote: Found a company called Stainless Steel Brakes in New York state that makes conversion kits to take drum brakes to discs. Most of what they have listed for Jeeps falls into the XJ category, but there are a couple interesting items, including a kit for AMC-20 axles with Warn hubs, and 74-91 Wag/Cheros with the Dana 44. Here's the link: http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/jeep.htm Clark Novak 87 GW ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:50:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Thanks for the quick reply and advice On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Kathleen Maher wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Thanks for the suggestions. I figured you were going to tell me to drop the pan. >Its just that if I break of those rusted, untrusted bolts, I will be in for a >whole other project. I guess though thats the fun of it...right? Anyway, if you (see below, I don't think you need to drop the pan...) Well, I did think of another way, but it might not work. It might even cause damage... but I'd try it... (in fact I have done it before...) It involves squiring carb cleaner up through the drain hole in the pan and down the pickup from the oil pump... This could be bad news if it gets into a bearing or a lifter though... So let things air out a bit before cranking it to life. Besides, those bolts might not be as bad as you think. Any you really shouldn't have too much trouble getting a drill and ez out up there. ;) My hunch is they'll come out fine. Use a good 6 point socket and gingerly, but forcefully undo 'em... Push up on the bolt when turning. Another trick is to heat 'em up with a small butane or propane torch or even a cigarette lighter... however, have a fire extinguisher nearby. :) I'd recommend soaking the engine in simple green and pressure washing it off before you try all this stuff.. and make sure you don't get close to the fuel lines with the heat. >crawl under your son's J3000 and think of any other ideas, let me know. I >hope its not the bearings. The motor only has 60K original miles on it. It could just be the sending unit, or the oil thinning out, or even the gauge heating up in the dash and changing it's resistance, wait, check that, it's a mechanical gauge, I remember mine now... The safest thing to do, before doing all that would be to attach a good mechanical gauge on the engine itself. I'd forgotten they used a mechanical setup... the thing could just be off... If you don't hear lifter noise and the temperature stays in the normal range, YOU PROBABLY DON"T HAVE A PROBLEM. So, put away the ezouts and the drill... :) >Another question..where is the sending unit on this motor anyway? And find the tube that goes to your dash and trace it back to the engine... it's been a long time since I looked... and it's dark outside.. (there are pictures of my son's engine... http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs something marks 67 j3000 also look in fsj tech. >another one..I have to replace the floor pans on both sides in the front, and >some sheet metal in the back..possibly the tailgate as well. Any suggestions for a >contact on this, or should I just consult a good restoration bodyman. I we just screwed down pieces of metal, some from old sunroof cutouts, pieces of galvanized sheet, any hunk of metal... then bondo'd over it and sprayed bed liner on it... works great. I've used license plates and fiberglass before... it all works. I've done the bondo/fiberglass/license plates/sheetmetal trick on at least 5 FSJ's... never came near the inside with a torch or welder (not in 11 FSJ's)... never had a leak after fixing it either... oh wait, I have taken a torch to a couple of FSJ's... when I was cutting them up. ;) >dont have a mig welder at my disposal nor have I done any soldering except for >some electrical and plumbing around the house. The rust is pretty bad and I >need to replace it before the winter. Any thoughts on this or the other go to a shop that does sunroof installations and ask for the old sections of roof. They work great. trim with shears and screw or bondo in place... If you're any where near Seattle I have a section of floor from an '84 and the floor of a not totally rusted 71 J truck I'm gonna be hauling off... soon. I got the "neighbors thinkin' there are rednecks next door" comment tonight... ;} >questions, I appreciate all the input I can get. also, your email is UNIX unfriendly... all I got was one long line... please email in plain text. :) You might also want to get on the FSJ list. Folks all over the world on it... :) details in previous message at the bottom. john >--> >-->Thanks, frank >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: rear discs I saw a post about the stainless steel rear disc conversion. I've got one on my 88 xj, dana 35 rear axle. I bought it used and had some challenges getting it spaced correctly, but after having my mechanic torch my old backing plates and use them as a spacer I can't go back... but they're working ok. The parking brake is less than fantastic though... I think if you bought the kit new you'd be ok. The instructions are pretty vague... However, I can feel the difference in the braking power. The little wagoneer was rather frightening to try to haul down to a stop in emergencies... it just didn't have that much braking power... With the rear discs it does stop a lot faster and smoother. SuperDawg has great brakes... I think the J10's have larger brakes than the big Wagoneers... not sure, but I think the J10's have 11" while the wag's have 10"... I'll have to look, but I know Old Blue didn't have impressive brakes either, but they were better than most XJ's... SuperKen did a rear disc conversion on his Super Wagoneer... I've got pictures of it somewhere... forgot which brand he used... Cadillac or something like that. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:21:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: last of the '89 XJ parts A: Wow! What a week for cleaning out the garage! What's left: Complete front clip no dents (hood, fenders, bumper, grill, rad support) $200, front and rear axle 3.55 open $200 each with brakes, or $350 the pair (trailer included) They may be gone by friday night. left rear door $20 with glass, rear bumper $35, tail lights $50 pair, 4 speed auto from a '90 (21 spline 85K miles) $250 (I paid $100 more than that for it, but thought it was 23 spline) Complete rear fenders (roof to inner wheel well) $50 each. =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0All monies go into the "Stroker with LPG in Blackie" fund which as you know is a non-profit deal! May consider swapping for labour or parts I need (I need a J10 model 20 housing to put my other gears into. The GW one I have is too narrow) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Next up is maybe find myself a CHEAP Commanche 4 banger 5 speed for trips till Blackie is finished (maybe in Black, so it'll be a mini-Blackie?) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:46:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Stainless brakes (or something I deleted) A: I had 11x2 on Elmo (not stock. They came from a Matador and I drilled the drums to work). The little '89 Cherokee had 10 x 2 rear brakes (tow package aparently I was told tonight by a guy that was looking for the 9.5" drums from his Wrangler that we compared them with) Blackie will have upgraded braking by putting in the GM Hydroboost system I scavenged from the '75 1 ton I sold for $100 because it was green and scary! (reminds me, I have to take the papers down to the machine shop!) I am concerned because it will be running off the XJ PS pump! I'll stick with drum rear brakes, but with an AT it's not as necessary for the Ebrake to be perfect. John wrote: =A0=A0I saw a post about the stainless steel rear disc conversion. I've got one on my 88 xj, dana 35 rear axle. I bought it used and had some challenges getting it spaced correctly, but after having my mechanic torch my old backing plates and use them as a spacer I can't go back... but they're working ok. The parking brake is less than fantastic though... I think if you bought the kit new you'd be ok. The instructions are pretty vague... However, I can feel the difference in the braking power. The little wagoneer was rather frightening to try to haul down to a stop in emergencies... it just didn't have that much braking power... With the rear discs it does stop a lot faster and smoother. SuperDawg has great brakes... I think the J10's have larger brakes than the big Wagoneers... not sure, but I think the J10's have 11" while the wag's have 10"... I'll have to look, but I know Old Blue didn't have impressive brakes either, but they were better than most XJ's... SuperKen did a rear disc conversion on his Super Wagoneer... I've got pictures of it somewhere... forgot which brand he used... Cadillac or something like that. john =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0---- - ---------------------------------------------- =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0john-at-wagoneers.com =A0 **** =A0 http://wagoneers.com =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 don't leave life without Jesus, please... =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Snohomish, Washington USA - -------- ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:08:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Thanks for the quick reply and advice A: A couple things (wish you had written before starting your rig!) to think about. The oil pressure control spring is known to be weak on these V8s (Alfred Koos on the AMC-list has the HD new ones I think) and dry starting the engine after sitting that long will take 1/2 the life off the engine bearings (I pull the oil sender and pump oil down with air pressure, and crank till the oil light goes out with fresh oil to boot) I have to start a '66 Chev Malibu 327 4 speed that has been sitting since '95, and won't turn by hand now. (I sprayed it down with a whole can of PB Blaster the other day. In the Cylinders too!) If you have to drop the oil pan, the night before, or longer, spray the edge of the pan above the bolt holes with PB Blaster, so it soaks in, and it will make life much easier! (It also has time to finish dripping before you crawl under!) I would take the pump apart (I recall it was external like the 360, but memory evades) and spray diesel fuel or fresh oil down the pick up tube from the pan with the drain plug open, and look for chunkies. Especially on GMs and F-at-rds with plastic cam gears! On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Kathleen Maher wrote: John, Thanks for the suggestions. I figured you were going to tell me to drop the pan. Its just that if I break of those rusted, untrusted bolts, I will be in for a whole other project. I guess though thats the fun of it...right? Anyway, if you (see below, I don't think you need to drop the pan...) Well, I did think of another way, but it might not work. It might even cause damage... but I'd try it... (in fact I have done it before...) It involves squiring carb cleaner up through the drain hole in the pan and down the pickup from the oil pump... This could be bad news if it gets into a bearing or a lifter though... So let things air out a bit before cranking it to life. Besides, those bolts might not be as bad as you think. Any you really shouldn't have too much trouble getting a drill and ez out up there. ;) My hunch is they'll come out fine. Use a good 6 point socket and gingerly, but forcefully undo 'em... Push up on the bolt when turning. Another trick is to heat 'em up with a small butane or propane torch or even a cigarette lighter... however, have a fire extinguisher nearby. :) I'd recommend soaking the engine in simple green and pressure washing it off before you try all this stuff.. and make sure you don't get close to the fuel lines with the heat. crawl under your son's J3000 and think of any other ideas, let me know. I hope its not the bearings. The motor only has 60K original miles on it. It could just be the sending unit, or the oil thinning out, or even the gauge heating up in the dash and changing it's resistance, wait, check that, it's a mechanical gauge, I remember mine now... The safest thing to do, before doing all that would be to attach a good mechanical gauge on the engine itself. I'd forgotten they used a mechanical setup... the thing could just be off... If you don't hear lifter noise and the temperature stays in the normal range, YOU PROBABLY DON"T HAVE A PROBLEM. So, put away the ezouts and the drill... :) Another question..where is the sending unit on this motor anyway? And find the tube that goes to your dash and trace it back to the engine... it's been a long time since I looked... and it's dark outside.. (there are pictures of my son's engine... http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs something marks 67 j3000 also look in fsj tech. another one..I have to replace the floor pans on both sides in the front, and some sheet metal in the back..possibly the tailgate as well. Any suggestions for a contact on this, or should I just consult a good restoration bodyman. I we just screwed down pieces of metal, some from old sunroof cutouts, pieces of galvanized sheet, any hunk of metal... then bondo'd over it and sprayed bed liner on it... works great. I've used license plates and fiberglass before... it all works. I've done the bondo/fiberglass/license plates/sheetmetal trick on at least 5 FSJ's... never came near the inside with a torch or welder (not in 11 FSJ's)... never had a leak after fixing it either... oh wait, I have taken a torch to a couple of FSJ's... when I was cutting them up. ;) dont have a mig welder at my disposal nor have I done any soldering except for some electrical and plumbing around the house. The rust is pretty bad and I need to replace it before the winter. Any thoughts on this or the other go to a shop that does sunroof installations and ask for the old sections of roof. They work great. trim with shears and screw or bondo in place... If you're any where near Seattle I have a section of floor from an '84 and the floor of a not totally rusted 71 J truck I'm gonna be hauling off... soon. I got the "neighbors thinkin' there are rednecks next door" comment tonight... ;} questions, I appreciate all the input I can get. also, your email is UNIX unfriendly... all I got was one long line... please email in plain text. :) You might also want to get on the FSJ list. Folks all over the world on it... :) details in previous message at the bottom. john Thanks, frank =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0---- ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 02:15:00 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: notes on using this list Digest.Net mailing list "Meta FAQ" These general notes on using Digest.Net mailing lists are posted on the 1st and 15th of each month. This file may be found on the web at http://www.digest.net/general-notes.txt [last revised 1/14/2000, rpw; update to special note on compuserve situation] Special Notes 1) messagemedia.com appears to have some significant spam issues, and are blocked from access to this server. 2) Compuserve has had several mail relays added to the Relay Spam Stopper; for this reason, Compuserve customers may have difficulty sending email to the server. The proper solution for this problem is for Compuserve to fix their mail servers. Compuserve apparently plans to fix this problem on or about 1/18/2000. Compuserve customers should direct their concerns to Compuserve support. Table of Contents 1. Why don't my postings go through? 2. Why can't I unsubscribe? 3. How do I post to the list? 4. Where are the archives? 5. What other lists are on digest.net? The Meta-FAQ 1. Why don't my postings go through? There are several things that may interfere with postings making it to the list. a) Are you a member? 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You may use either one of two addresses: for example, the bmw-digest may be reached using either bmw-at-digest.net or bmw-digest-at-digest.net If you are using the correct addresses and your posts don't show up, check out the stuff in 1. above. 4. Where are the archives? see ftp://ftp.digest.net/ for digest archives. the web archives have proven problematic, and are awaiting time for a systematic attack on the problems they've been having. 5. What other lists are on digest.net? see http://www.digest.net/ for more information. ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #964 *************************