From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Aug 24 13:53:16 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, August 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 999 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Superdawg under the weather fsj: Re: superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner fsj: RE: not sure what is going on... Re: fsj: Re: not sure what is going on... fsj: Re: not sure what is going on... Re: fsj: Re: not sure what is going on... fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #997 fsj: Re: superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner fsj: the $1000 86 Wagoneer fsj: Re: [1FSJ] the $1000 86 Wagoneer fsj: 67 Jeep J3000 for sale - ASAP! fsj: Re: superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner fsj: Sad but true lesson to learn fsj: Latest LPG info from the gov. FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:37:32 -0500 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: Superdawg under the weather Speaking of which, I need to go figure out which connector or component on my 258 is acting up again... :( Worked all the way to work and part of the way out of the drive at work before it started acting up... not sure if it's the distr adv mech, the brain or just old connectors... but I ain't gonna figure it out on the keyboard. :) later, john meister ================ I think it's the brain. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:38:29 GMT From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: Re: superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner Ray D. says it all.... This is why i replace the PCV before the emission testing.... and yes on Newer model it has a side port connected to vaccum -yep another source of vaccum leak! Michel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:42:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: not sure what is going on... On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, JC Jones wrote: >-->John, >--> Have you done a compression and leakdown test? If you have a weak cyl. and are getting excessive pressure in the crankcase you >-->can get oil through the PCV valve. Also, if the oil return drains in the head get clogged, your valve cover can get filled with oil >-->also causing extra oil to come through the PCV valve. After running for a while, shut off the engine and open the oil fill cap and >-->see if there is an excessive amount of oil under the valve cover. will take a look... it was clean before though... This morning it felt different... My guess is I have multiple symptoms... multiple problems. I think I have the wiring issue mostly resolved... that leaves the carb, the distributer mechanism and of course the engine itself. The adv mech was loose... the carb was just redone... two primary suspects at this point. It kinds of feels like a fuel issue now that the major stutter has gone away... now it's just a bit rough. gotta run, john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:31:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: not sure what is going on... A: I hope this post makes sense. Each time I go over it, I can't quite find the right word, and have to go back and I add more words and explanations, which may confuse more! If it is confusing, take the stuff in brackets out, and read the whole sentence, then read the explanations in quotes. (Maybe I need to start using numbered footnotes! ) Blowby can be caused by either too much ring wear, or a broken piston/rings. And just an exteneded thought about that (not saying this is the case here, but I have heard top end vibes from John's exhaust pipes! ), but frequent high RPMs, especially on an older engine of unknown service history, can often result in piston/ring breakage. (Straight 6 has a torsional vibrational problem around 5500 RPM that can cause the motor to fly apart if left there for any length of time. Above or below is okay, but below is much better! ) This piston breakage is due to the extra stress of high RPM making the bearing clearances tighter during the up stroke (higher RPM = less clearance due to the centripetal (?) force increase squeezing the oil out of the bearing faster than it can be replaced and this is where low oil pressure leads to damage as well), and the rings striking the cylinder ridge harder than normal, and creating points of higher heat and torsional force. (not to start the synthetic vs Dino thread again, but what I was taught was synth has a thinner less friction than dino film that it protects the bearings with, but it increases clearances on the slack side) If I can find my old diagrams (I tripped over the General Mechanics book awhile back when organizing, but it may be packed in one of 3 dozen boxes in the garage!) In any older straight 6 cyl motor, piston slappage also comes into play, because the pistons are vertical and the engine revolutions flop them side to side, depending on upstroke or down stroke. It's not as much a factor in V8s because the gravitational force keeps the piston pretty much to one side, but this also causes more wear on one side than the other. The later Jeep 4.0L ('95 and newer I think) have a silicon embedded skirt to cut down slap noise. This process allows manufacturers to use sloppier tolerances during assembly and not have to deal with customer complaints about noise. (#1 complaint in XJs before that was piston noise making the motor sound like it was going to blow up! My stroker is much than factory spec tolerances, due to the careful attention from the high performance machine shop I use. (Which is why I went to Canada to get my work done. Nothing against shops down here, but I KNOW what I get there due to past experience and all the trophies on their wall! BTW, I WILL be running synth oil when done, to keep my clearances tight a long time! Ray wrote: I had that problem in my old YJ (same engine). Essentially, the PCV isn't keeping up with the blowby. In other words, you have pressure in your crank case. OK... here's the deal. You have a Positive Crankcase Vent (PCV) valve stuck into a little rubber thingie. The other end of the PCV valve is hooked to a good vacuum source. The idea is that it sucks the fumes out of the crankcase. There is another hose that goes from the crankcase to the inside of the air cleaner. This is makeup air for the crank case. If the PCV doesn't suck enough, vaporized oil comes through the makeup hose and condenses in that little white scrubby thing or in the air filter housing itself. First, check the PCV valve and make sure that it isn't clogged or otherwise obstructed. Pull the PCV out of the little rubber thingie that it's stuck into and make sure that it's sucking properly. If it's sucking properly, pull the oil filler cap off and see if there are fumes coming out. If fumes are coming out of the crankcase, you either have a PCV that doesn't suck enough, or some piston rings that blow too much. If the PCV system needs to be fixed, you're in luck. If you have excessive blowby, you're SOL and have to either live with it or do a ring job. Ray Drouillard - ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: full size jeep list Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 1:07 AM Subject: fsj: not sure what is going on... superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner! I changed the brain, actually the ignition module, it's not a brain... ;) No change... didn't expect any. I was hoping the connectors being corroded would clear by changing... I cleaned all the connectors and it's still running rough... but didn't seem like it was missing like it was. If it acts up tomorrow I'll do one of two things. I'll either tear ALL the wiring out and make my own harness, or I'll buy a used mercedes diesel and park superdawg until I can do a frame up resto... ;) Or I'll keep messing around with it until something breaks completely. :) john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:35:25 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: not sure what is going on... excellent writeup ray... new pcv valve that sucks... jim and I checked it during the carb rebuild... that leaves blowby... which doesn't surprise me, the PPo most likely abused superdawg... I wonder if part of my miss isn't fouled plugs too... guess I need to read 'em. I need to get serious about two things... building my shop and getting a benz for a daily driver. I'm not willing to part with Superdawg and would really like to go through him at a casual pace. Puttering if you will. :) I found an 86 wagoneer this morning, sad shape, for a grand... If it has the 258 I may buy it...looks to have the NP208/at setup... no woodgrain, bench seat, bottom of the line config... :) john At 12:19 PM 8/24/00 -0400, Ray (lists) wrote: >I had that problem in my old YJ (same engine). Essentially, the PCV isn't >keeping up with the blowby. In other words, you have pressure in your crank >case. > >OK... here's the deal. > >You have a Positive Crankcase Vent (PCV) valve stuck into a little rubber >thingie. The other end of the PCV valve is hooked to a good vacuum source. >The idea is that it sucks the fumes out of the crankcase. > >There is another hose that goes from the crankcase to the inside of the air >cleaner. This is makeup air for the crank case. > >If the PCV doesn't suck enough, vaporized oil comes through the makeup hose >and condenses in that little white scrubby thing or in the air filter >housing itself. > >First, check the PCV valve and make sure that it isn't clogged or otherwise >obstructed. Pull the PCV out of the little rubber thingie that it's stuck >into and make sure that it's sucking properly. > >If it's sucking properly, pull the oil filler cap off and see if there are >fumes coming out. > >If fumes are coming out of the crankcase, you either have a PCV that doesn't >suck enough, or some piston rings that blow too much. > >If the PCV system needs to be fixed, you're in luck. If you have excessive >blowby, you're SOL and have to either live with it or do a ring job. > >Ray Drouillard > > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:54:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: not sure what is going on... A: Somethings I forgot to mention! The wrong PCV can cause this condition as well! On some old straight 6 motors with blowby, I have put a can inline between the breather and valvecover (not the PCV line!) to catch the vapors, and condense them, and return them to the oil pan (requires punching a hole in the pan near the top. Not an easy job unless you already have the pan off!) John wrote: excellent writeup ray... new pcv valve that sucks... jim and I checked it during the carb rebuild... that leaves blowby... which doesn't surprise me, the PPo most likely abused superdawg... I wonder if part of my miss isn't fouled plugs too... guess I need to read 'em. I need to get serious about two things... building my shop and getting a benz for a daily driver. I'm not willing to part with Superdawg and would really like to go through him at a casual pace. Puttering if you will. :) I found an 86 wagoneer this morning, sad shape, for a grand... If it has the 258 I may buy it...looks to have the NP208/at setup... no woodgrain, bench seat, bottom of the line config... :) john At 12:19 PM 8/24/00 -0400, Ray (lists) wrote: I had that problem in my old YJ (same engine). Essentially, the PCV isn't keeping up with the blowby. In other words, you have pressure in your crank case. OK... here's the deal. You have a Positive Crankcase Vent (PCV) valve stuck into a little rubber thingie. The other end of the PCV valve is hooked to a good vacuum source. The idea is that it sucks the fumes out of the crankcase. There is another hose that goes from the crankcase to the inside of the air cleaner. This is makeup air for the crank case. If the PCV doesn't suck enough, vaporized oil comes through the makeup hose and condenses in that little white scrubby thing or in the air filter housing itself. First, check the PCV valve and make sure that it isn't clogged or otherwise obstructed. Pull the PCV out of the little rubber thingie that it's stuck into and make sure that it's sucking properly. If it's sucking properly, pull the oil filler cap off and see if there are fumes coming out. If fumes are coming out of the crankcase, you either have a PCV that doesn't suck enough, or some piston rings that blow too much. If the PCV system needs to be fixed, you're in luck. If you have excessive blowby, you're SOL and have to either live with it or do a ring job. Ray Drouillard ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:47:48 -0500 From: Mike Dillon Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #997 Landon , If you have a pre 80 v-8, manual trans donor with the right front end gears, it might not be to bad. take front axle(get a donor with the same gear ratio as your GW), all the clutch linkage flywheel, trans hump cover ( may need some work as I think the hump shape changed some in 1980+ rigs) bellhousing/spacer (Does the T18 have the right input shaft for a AMC V8 ?) + some other stuff that I forgot. get of new drivelines front/rear made (I have heard that there may be the possablity of not haveing enough front driveline clearance but don't know for that for fact) You will be on your own for transfercase shift linkages, but that should not be too bad and away you go. Three bananas, two weekends, some custom fab work on transfercase linkages,one donor rig and $1000 max. Mike D. > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:19:35 -0500 > From: "Landon Tesar" > Subject: fsj: T18 and 300 TC for sale > > Oooh, how tough to go from TF-727 to a 4 spd manual in a GW ? > > - - Landon > - ----------------------------------------- > > From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) > Subject: fsj: For Sale: T18 4 speed + in TX > > This is an ad I just stumbled across. > ___________ > Jeep parts: T-18 Transmission with Scout 300 transfer case and > bellhousing - fits 4.0L & 256 6 Cyl, 304, 360 & 401 Jeep engines. > Transmission recently rebuilt. Tough and ready! All for $1,350. Dallas, > Texas, 972-393-7595 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:25:15 -0500 > From: "Landon Tesar" > Subject: fsj: superdawg supper > > The thought of dropping a nice fuel injected V8 in this guppy > comes to mind whenever he hiccups. :) First I have to find a > nice clean 300SD for commuting. :) > > There's got to be a better intake situation than a single two bbl carb. > I suggest two webers, independent manifolds, downdraft for > driveability/price. Seems with all the Jeep I-6s out there, a better > solution like this would have a big market. > > - - Landon > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:38:42 -0700 (PDT) > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) > Subject: Re: fsj: T18 and 300 TC for sale > > A: First you need the pedals, and flywheel, then driveshafts and front > axle (D300 is passenger's side drop, but you could go NP208 with the > right sleeve, and not change the front axle. NP229 will not last long > behind a standard in 4 wheel mode, due to shock loads on the VC) > > Landon Tesar wrote: > Oooh, how tough to go from TF-727 to a 4 spd manual in a GW ? > - - Landon > - ----------------------------------------- > From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) > Subject: fsj: For Sale: T18 4 speed + in TX > This is an ad I just stumbled across. > ___________ > Jeep parts: T-18 Transmission with Scout 300 transfer case and > bellhousing - fits 4.0L & 256 6 Cyl, 304, 360 & 401 Jeep engines. > Transmission recently rebuilt. Tough and ready! All for $1,350. Dallas, > Texas, 972-393-7595 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:07:31 GMT From: "John Bushnell" Subject: fsj: Re: superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner I had this problem on my 258. The Clifford has baffles, but is still rumored to be a possible source of the problem (I'll see if I can find the old posts on this subject). My solution was to pull the oil fill plug on the front of the Clifford and put a grommet and a mopar breather in and drain to a puke tank (coke bottle in my case). I ran this way for almost two years. It worked well and kept the air cleaner clean. As you probably know, or might guess, the problem gets worse as rpms increase. Later, John Bushnell Need a breather, it will buy you some time? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:12:40 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: the $1000 86 Wagoneer At 10:59 AM 8/24/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: I assume that's a GRAND Wagoneer! Or else that would be a 2.late >V6! LOL! That would be nearly one of the last 258 GWs as well! what, I look like an idiot? Of course it's an SJ. and it has the stinkin' v8 in it... :( but it does have a 208... However, I'm not convinced, she claims 15mpg in town... sounds like a 258 to me... gonna look tomorrow morning. my wife is gonna hurt me... I need to get my shop built to hide my projects... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:34:30 -0400 From: "Ray (lists)" Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] the $1000 86 Wagoneer > what, I look like an idiot? > my wife is gonna hurt me... I need to get my shop built to hide > my projects... ;) > > john This song is dedicated to John. [demime 0.97b removed an attachment of type audio/wav which had a name of theman.wav] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:41:51 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: 67 Jeep J3000 for sale - ASAP! I found a better Jeep for my son... he's even interested in it (since it has the V8...;), so we need to sell his ASAP. We're both excited about the "new" Jeep. Asking $1,500 for the 67 J3000, but willing to look at offers. He's been working on it for some time... it's looking and running great. :) It's a 1967 J3000, 327, 3 speed, dana 20, 30x9.5's, spring over conversion, ps, holley carb, some bed rust, but easily repaired, includes some spare parts and info on the location of a 327 4v manifold and carb. Floor boards repaired. Body straight. It's licensed and running fantastic. Brakes are good, hoses and belts are new. It starts and runs great, "new" gas tank. Updated bench seat and NEW seat belts. Original AM radio working. bumpers in good shape. Not sure what the gearing is... it's pretty low... It could use new tires, most likely bearing and u-joint service and rust repair to the bed... it's not that bad really... it's easily salvageable. http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/marks-67-J3000/ email john-at-wagoneers.com or give me a call, I'm in the Snohomish phonebook. :) I'll take some new pictures of it... you can see the work in progress on the web. (and yes I know it's not an XJ or a Diesel-Benz... but it's funny how the interests cross over... ;) thanx, john meister - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:50:19 GMT From: "John Bushnell" Subject: fsj: Re: superdawg is spitting up oil out of the air cleaner Here's the clifford fix I read about... and have copied from a SWB Jeep forum. >Well, a friend and I finally came up with THE fix for the clifford >cover sucking oil into the intake on the Jeep 258 I6. Take the cover >off, drill out the rivets holding the baffle covers on the inside of >the cover, drill the rivet holes and install a #8 helicoil. Next, cut a >piece of 18 ga. sheetmetal so that it sits snuggly inside the cover on >top of the baffle castings points. It should fit tight against the wall on >the right side and have appx. a 1/4" gap along the left edge. Then >put the baffle caps back on, the sheetmetal on top of them and install the >#8 screws with red loctite. This will shield the baffles from the >spashing oil and keep them from filling with oil. My oil consumption >went from a quart every 200 miles to less than a quart at 1200 miles. It may be the clifford. John Bushnell ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:56:39 EDT From: RKH911-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Sad but true lesson to learn As always, when I finish a project with my GW something always comes up. Today as I was getting up early to take my GW to my mechanic to have the AC serviced for a leak that should have been fixed 3 weeks ago when I had the AC completely redone, I had a flat tire on the rear pass. side. Of course, since I have half a brain and was just finishing my carpet install the jack was not normally where it was - IN MY TRUCK. OK, so I'm late to my appt and I have to go to the house to get my jack (I'm at GFriends house who owns a jack built for a bicycle ((read F**d explorer)) and go back to truck. I get back to truck with my GW jack and lift rear, as usual, to remove tire. - You experienced guys know where I'm going with this - As the truck goes up - in Park, brake on - the truck rolls a foot ahead. To make a long story short, my almost complete babe of a truck needs a tailgate. Because as the truck rolled forward, the top of the OEM jack forced its way into the skin of my tailgate enough to stop the truck from falling on its axles. I have never been so disgusted with myself ever. Gears in Park, E brake on - I did not chock the front tires and there's a 3" deep pit in my tailgate now. Lesson learned - Chock the front tires (I was on a very flat grade that had JUST been retarred) At least I don't have herculiner on my hootus! Oh well. I'm looking at BFG's all around and a new white tailgate (In Northern Cali) if anyone sees one in a yard. Rob Harrison 85 Grand Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:29:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Latest LPG info from the gov. 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