From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue May 3 23:36:54 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, May 4 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3722 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie Re: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels RE: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels RE: fsj: I'm a newbie fsj: Nissan cummins diesel fsj: another Diesel to consider... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 16:25:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie cool. I want one. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 2 May 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # There are several people on the Scout list that have Perkins diesels in them # # > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:14:16 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com; r16884-at-freescale.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie # > # > rumors... no solid info: # > # > # > There are rumors that a few early Scouts left the factory with Perkins diesel engines, but these would have been special-order trucks and not a standard option. The Scout II (made between 1971 and 1980) had the following engine options: the 196 4-cylinder, 232 6-cylinder (early production), 258 6-cylinder (later production), 304 V-8, and 345 V-8. At the time, International did not manufacture a diesel engine small enough to be used in the Scout, and so starting in 1976 used the Nissan SD33 diesel engine as a diesel option. This engine was replaced by the Nissan SD33T turbodiesel engine in 1980. # > # > # > john # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > -o|||||o- # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # Supposedly only special order early Scouts were available with the Perkins # > # diesel. # > # # > # http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_Scout # > # # > # > Subject: Re: fsj: I'm a newbie # > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; r16884-at-freescale.com; fsj-at-digest.net # > # > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com # > # > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:39:26 +0000 # > # > # > # > From 76 and up IH used the Nissan SD33. It is possible that early 60s may # > # have used one, but I've never heard or read about such, but then again haven't # > # looked at it very hard either. # > # > # > # > # > # > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** # > # > # > # > -----Original Message----- # > # > From: Jim Blair # > # > Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net # > # > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:32:53 # > # > To: ; local Jeep list # > # > Reply-To: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie # > # > # > # > I think the Ranger or Mazda John had was Perkins powered. IH ran them in # > # early # > # > Scouts too. # > # > # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > > From: R16884-at-freescale.com # > # > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; john-at-wagoneers.com; erniesilva-at-gmail.com # > # > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie # > # > > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:44:27 +0000 # > # > > # > # > > I know Perkins put a 4cyl in a Ranger in the early 80's, somewhere around # > # 45 # > # > hp, about the same as a 190D. I think the Isuzu diesel of the time was a # > # > better light diesel. # > # > > # > # > > FYI, my Dad is talking to Cummins to build a light diesel, he wants it to # > # > turn 4500 rpm to build a diesel-electric generator driven support for a # > # > drivetrain at each corner. 2 spd electric, two speed geartrain. But I # > # think # > # > there is a large flywheel in there, and that is not something well received # > # in # > # > the auto market. Concept in process, he's more about the drive wheel # > # design. # > # > > # > # > > - Landon # > # > > # > # > > -----Original Message----- # > # > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim # > # > Blair # > # > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:37 AM # > # > > To: john Meister; erniesilva-at-gmail.com # > # > > Cc: local Jeep list # > # > > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie # > # > > # > # > > Older Perkins would be rather anemic for the modern highways here. Seems # > # > Chrysler had their hand in that setup as well as Caterpillar. # > # > > Only factory installed Perkins 6 cyl W300 known to exist: # > # > > http://www.sweptline.com/hist/bigtrucks.html I used to work on a # > # customer's # > # > > '68 Dodge D200 with the 4 cyl perkins. The 6 cyl had more torque but # > # isn't # > # > much perkier. (pun intended) AMC used them in taxis built overseas! # > # > > http://www.allpar.com/mopar/perkins.html # > # > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkins_Engines_Company_Limited # > # > > # > # > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 22:51:48 -0700 # > # > > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > > > To: erniesilva-at-gmail.com # > # > > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > > > Subject: Re: fsj: I'm a newbie # > # > > > # > # > > > I am putting an SD33T into my '83 J10 stepside, using an International # > # > > > Harvester adapater to mate to an RV version of the # > # > > Torqueflite 727 automatic, modified # > # > > > to accept the Jeep NP208 transfer case. # > # > > > # > # > > > I had a 1986 Jeep CJ-10A with the SD33 and RV/TF727/NP208. # > # > > > # > # > > > I would love to have info on the Perkins engine used... how much would # > # > > shipping be? :) What transmission does # > # > > > it use? # > # > > > # > # > > > here's the list of vehicles I've owned: # > # > > > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html # > # > > > # > # > > > john # > # > > > # > # > > > ----- # > # > > > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > > > -o|||||o- # > # > > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > # > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # > # > > > -- # > # > > > # > # > > > # > # > > > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: # > # > > > # > # > > > # OK, then I'll buy it, it'll take about 20 days on "mail travelling" # > # > > > # till I get my hands on it. # > # > > > # # > # > > > # The Perkins engine is not a problem in my country, as the diesel # > # > > > was # cheaper in the 90's there are a lot of that engines installed # > # > > > on # trucks. It's a very common one, some of them (the good ones) # > # > > > were # imported from the UK an were used, not new. The others were # > # > > > imported # from Argentina. They are also very common in Brazil in the # > # > > > heavy duty # road and farm machinery. # > # > > > # # > # > > > # Thank you for your fast answer. # > # > > > # # > # > > > # Ernesto. # > # > > > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 00:09:40 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels In europe it's liters per 100km. Here it's miles per gallon. *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** - -----Original Message----- From: Ernesto Silva Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 20:45:03 To: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels I assumed 17 or 18 miles per gallon, or should I change to 17-18 litres every 100 km? I4m a little confused as I asume the people from the list normally use gallons and miles, and I use the MKS system with litres and kilometers. Ernesto. On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:37 PM, john wrote: > shouldn't that be liters / 100km? > > http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/liters-per-100km-MPG.txt > > john > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: > > # I've seen the article a few hours ago and read the same part of it, strange > # truck, isn't it? > # > # In my country we measure mileage in how many km can I ride with 20 lt of > # fuel. My Wagoneer fuel consumption may be around 180Km with 20 lt of diesel > # oil. > # > # >From the article data I get that it consumes 1 gallon (3.7 litres aprox) > # every 17 miles (27 km), so my calculation is 27/3.7=7.3km/lt, or almost > # 146km with 20 lt of diesel oil. Much better than my wagoneer estimate if you > # compare the sizes and weights of both vehicles. > # > # Ernesto. > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 17:43:58 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels That's 11.11 liters per 100km or 2.94 US gals per 60 miles or 17.64 mpg. > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels > To: erniesilva-at-gmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com > Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 00:09:40 +0000 > > In europe it's liters per 100km. > Here it's miles per gallon. > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ernesto Silva > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 20:45:03 > To: john > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: the use of Perkins Diesels > > I assumed 17 or 18 miles per gallon, or should I change to 17-18 > litres every 100 km? I4m a little confused as I asume the people from > the list normally use gallons and miles, and I use the MKS system with > litres and kilometers. > > Ernesto. > > On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 7:37 PM, john wrote: > > shouldn't that be liters / 100km? > > > > http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/liters-per-100km-MPG.txt > > > > john > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -o|||||o- > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: > > > > # I've seen the article a few hours ago and read the same part of it, strange > > # truck, isn't it? > > # > > # In my country we measure mileage in how many km can I ride with 20 lt of > > # fuel. My Wagoneer fuel consumption may be around 180Km with 20 lt of diesel > > # oil. > > # > > # >From the article data I get that it consumes 1 gallon (3.7 litres aprox) > > # every 17 miles (27 km), so my calculation is 27/3.7=7.3km/lt, or almost > > # 146km with 20 lt of diesel oil. Much better than my wagoneer estimate if you > > # compare the sizes and weights of both vehicles. > > # > > # Ernesto. > > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 17:45:10 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie Only with 3 speed STD. Mechanical linkage! Oh my sciatica! > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 16:25:16 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com; r16884-at-freescale.com; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie > > cool. I want one. > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Jim Blair wrote: > > # There are several people on the Scout list that have Perkins diesels in them > # > # > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:14:16 -0700 > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > # > CC: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com; r16884-at-freescale.com; fsj-at-digest.net > # > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie > # > > # > rumors... no solid info: > # > > # > > # > There are rumors that a few early Scouts left the factory with Perkins diesel engines, but these would have been special-order trucks and not a standard option. The Scout II (made between 1971 and 1980) had the following engine options: the 196 4-cylinder, 232 6-cylinder (early production), 258 6-cylinder (later production), 304 V-8, and 345 V-8. At the time, International did not manufacture a diesel engine small enough to be used in the Scout, and so starting in 1976 used the Nissan SD33 diesel engine as a diesel option. This engine was replaced by the Nissan SD33T turbodiesel engine in 1980. > # > > # > > # > john > # > > # > ----- > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > -o|||||o- > # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > # > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > > # > > # > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Jim Blair wrote: > # > > # > # Supposedly only special order early Scouts were available with the Perkins > # > # diesel. > # > # > # > # http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_Scout > # > # > # > # > Subject: Re: fsj: I'm a newbie > # > # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; r16884-at-freescale.com; fsj-at-digest.net > # > # > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com > # > # > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 18:39:26 +0000 > # > # > > # > # > From 76 and up IH used the Nissan SD33. It is possible that early 60s may > # > # have used one, but I've never heard or read about such, but then again haven't > # > # looked at it very hard either. > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** > # > # > > # > # > -----Original Message----- > # > # > From: Jim Blair > # > # > Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > # > # > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:32:53 > # > # > To: ; local Jeep list > # > # > Reply-To: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie > # > # > > # > # > I think the Ranger or Mazda John had was Perkins powered. IH ran them in > # > # early > # > # > Scouts too. > # > # > > # > # > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > From: R16884-at-freescale.com > # > # > > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; john-at-wagoneers.com; erniesilva-at-gmail.com > # > # > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > # > # > > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie > # > # > > Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 15:44:27 +0000 > # > # > > > # > # > > I know Perkins put a 4cyl in a Ranger in the early 80's, somewhere around > # > # 45 > # > # > hp, about the same as a 190D. I think the Isuzu diesel of the time was a > # > # > better light diesel. > # > # > > > # > # > > FYI, my Dad is talking to Cummins to build a light diesel, he wants it to > # > # > turn 4500 rpm to build a diesel-electric generator driven support for a > # > # > drivetrain at each corner. 2 spd electric, two speed geartrain. But I > # > # think > # > # > there is a large flywheel in there, and that is not something well received > # > # in > # > # > the auto market. Concept in process, he's more about the drive wheel > # > # design. > # > # > > > # > # > > - Landon > # > # > > > # > # > > -----Original Message----- > # > # > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim > # > # > Blair > # > # > > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 10:37 AM > # > # > > To: john Meister; erniesilva-at-gmail.com > # > # > > Cc: local Jeep list > # > # > > Subject: RE: fsj: I'm a newbie > # > # > > > # > # > > Older Perkins would be rather anemic for the modern highways here. Seems > # > # > Chrysler had their hand in that setup as well as Caterpillar. > # > # > > Only factory installed Perkins 6 cyl W300 known to exist: > # > # > > http://www.sweptline.com/hist/bigtrucks.html I used to work on a > # > # customer's > # > # > > '68 Dodge D200 with the 4 cyl perkins. The 6 cyl had more torque but > # > # isn't > # > # > much perkier. (pun intended) AMC used them in taxis built overseas! > # > # > > http://www.allpar.com/mopar/perkins.html > # > # > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkins_Engines_Company_Limited > # > # > > > # > # > > Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > # > # > > > # > # > > > # > # > > > # > # > > > # > # > > > Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 22:51:48 -0700 > # > # > > > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > # > # > > > To: erniesilva-at-gmail.com > # > # > > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > # > # > > > Subject: Re: fsj: I'm a newbie > # > # > > > > # > # > > > I am putting an SD33T into my '83 J10 stepside, using an International > # > # > > > Harvester adapater to mate to an RV version of the > # > # > > Torqueflite 727 automatic, modified > # > # > > > to accept the Jeep NP208 transfer case. > # > # > > > > # > # > > > I had a 1986 Jeep CJ-10A with the SD33 and RV/TF727/NP208. > # > # > > > > # > # > > > I would love to have info on the Perkins engine used... how much would > # > # > > shipping be? :) What transmission does > # > # > > > it use? > # > # > > > > # > # > > > here's the list of vehicles I've owned: > # > # > > > http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > # > # > > > > # > # > > > john > # > # > > > > # > # > > > ----- > # > # > > > > # > # - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > # > # > > > -o|||||o- > # > # > > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > # > # > > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > # > # > > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > # > # > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > # > # > > > -- > # > # > > > > # > # > > > > # > # > > > On Mon, 2 May 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: > # > # > > > > # > # > > > # OK, then I'll buy it, it'll take about 20 days on "mail travelling" > # > # > > > # till I get my hands on it. > # > # > > > # > # > # > > > # The Perkins engine is not a problem in my country, as the diesel > # > # > > > was # cheaper in the 90's there are a lot of that engines installed > # > # > > > on # trucks. It's a very common one, some of them (the good ones) > # > # > > > were # imported from the UK an were used, not new. The others were > # > # > > > imported # from Argentina. They are also very common in Brazil in the > # > # > > > heavy duty # road and farm machinery. > # > # > > > # > # > # > > > # Thank you for your fast answer. > # > # > > > # > # > # > > > # Ernesto. > # > # > > > # > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 09:41:09 -0600 From: Troy Phagan Subject: fsj: Nissan cummins diesel Some useless USA diesel trivia and gossip: Cummins has been developing a smaller diesel suitable for 1/2 tons pickups. I think it was originally intended for Dodge, but the project has been in limbo for a while with the Fiat ownership changed, etc. Apparently Nissan has picked up the project, and will have this newer, smaller 5.0L Cummins diesel in 2013 Nissan Titan's. However, there have also been rumors that the new model Titan's will be based upon the Dodge/ Chrysler/ Ram platform anyway. Nissan is looking to stay in the full size truck market, but wants to share engineering development costs, etc. Of course, the GM 4.5L baby Duramax was virtually completed, but put on the shelf during the government bailout situation. We have not heard of anything involved bringing back yet, so it all remains to be seen. - -- - -Troy Troy Phagan C.R.P. 4x4& Auto Accessories 2102 9th ST Greeley, CO 80631 970-351-8603 fax: 970-353-3066 tsp-at-crptruck.com www.crptruck.com www.smilingcharleys.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 23:36:03 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: another Diesel to consider... ok... so as many of you suspected from the onset of this latest adventure, we're not toyota rav4 people... while it is a very nice vehicle it's just not the same as a Mercedes... My wife doesn't like watching the fuel gauge move... even though it's getting over 20mpg it's just not good enough... She needs a slo-mo-needle for that costly hole in the back of the rig... :) so, we looked at a 1997 E300 Diesel with 216,000 miles on it tonight... the guy is asking $6,000 for it, which is in the neighborhood of book value pretty much any way you search it... top retail about $6700... etc. Anyway, there's a couple of technical questions I have, and hitting a wide audience to get the answers... sorry for being slightly off topic... if you know nothing about Mercedes Diesels of the W210 era feel free to look at the pictures and just skim or delete... no need to reply with apologies. ;) I understand... I know you would offer advice if you had it... thank you... :) here's the pictures: http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/1997-E300-Diesel/ALL.html the reason he's selling is that he bought himself a '99 E300 so his girl friend could have this '97 E300, you can see both in the pictures... well, she up and decided that she wanted to go back to Montana... leaving him with both E300s... he's owned the car for over 3 years and has paperwork showing that it's well maintained over the total of three or four owners... car came up from Oregon... recognize the shop down there that serviced it... also has been serviced by Phil Smart and another shop I know of up here... both reputable... even has a car fax on it from when he bought it, for what it's worth, it's clean... the car is straight and clean, it was getting dusk when we looked at it, the color threw the sensor off a bit on the camera... same color as our '91... smoke silver, some call it gold, beige, champaign, whatever... it's a nice color... matches my Jetta and my J10... the house... etc. ;) It's the reason I decided to look at it... it's just a nice color... and the price wasn't unrealistic... THE TECHNICAL ISSUES/QUESTIONS: - -------------------------------------- 1) check engine light comes on... easily reset from the dash... a P0400 code indicating a bad EGR valve. http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/1997-E300-Diesel/JM7_7199.jpg - not a worry, what's it cost? can it be plugged up and/or disconnected? Didn't seem to affect the ability to drive the car and our emissions test doesn't check the computers on the Diesels... tailpipe test only... (at least on my '03, and my '91... so we're good) Could I just reset on startup and ignore it? Could I just plug it up like I did on my '91 300D? 2) when you stand on the go pedal the transmission won't shift up unless you let it off a bit... the seller claims his 99 does the exact same thing... otherwise the transmission shifts fine, crisp, and precise...no hunting or slop... downshifts immediately... Driving it normally you notice nothing except smooth acceleration and quiet... quieter than the '91 300d... most certainly quieter than the '03 Jetta and quieter than the '01 Rav4. 3) the glow plug light stayed on a bit after starting... my guess on that is a bad glow plug... it did go off after a little bit... kind of a rough start... but it has been sitting for months... once I hit the go pedal and rev'd it up a bit it got happy it and idled smooth... once warm, smooth and quiet... I'm thinking the fuel isn't the best right now too... the low fuel lamp works... ;) 4) he had been running Veggie Oil through an expensive kit that he moved over to his '99... didn't take time to check the setup... obviously it wasn't a bad idea or he wouldn't do it again... and he's a certified installer of the systems... can't remember the name of it... there's only two or three that have a computerized setup... engine ran well so I'm thinking this isn't a concern, under the hood shows no sign of it having been there. 5) the radio wanted it's code... entered the code and it was happy... this could be one of those issues with the W210, for $100 I'll yank it and drop an after market in... don't care... looking at the picture it says CD... hmmmm I wonder where it's inserted... RTM... ;) 6) the climate control seemed to work fine... once I learned Klingon and had some back seat coaching, clearly this system will require that we RTM. BUT, the display wasn't reading in Klingon, English or metric... but it worked... suspect that sitting for a bit might have caused some corrosion... see: http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/1997-E300-Diesel/JM7_7195.jpg http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/1997-E300-Diesel/JM7_7180.jpg it's like the lcd is just skipping segments... I've heard that the climate control in these things can run about $1300... was that for parts or labor too? ;) so far this is the only item that has me mildly concerned... but as it's working ok a bad LCD readout isn't a worry... but could lead to other failures later... time to share the horror stories W210 owners... :) 7) the steering seemed a little heavy to me... but it seemed to track ok... could be a little more positive centering, seller says that there is still a guarantee on the FEA at a local shop... of course I drove over there in the Jetta and you could turn that wheel with a wet noodle... and man did the E300 have a nice tight turning radius... I did about three circles in the middle of the road... sure, it was a deserted back road, only annoyed the occupants... :) 8) the headlights are not clouded... but he has a set of aftermarket projector units he paid $800 for that he put on his '99, see the pictures... he'll sell me the set for $400... any thoughts on those? 9) any other concerns, issues or questions I need to ask? The car started fine cold, braked smoothly, shifted fine if I kept my foot out of the injection pump, all the windows and sunroof worked, stereo worked, defrosters worked, vents worked, temp went up or down on command (just didn't display properly)... oh yeah, he put in a new a/c compressor and drier... spent about $1500... that is the ONLY large ticket item repair that the car has seen... has a folder showing info from it's beginning... no reason to believe he or a prior owner was hiding anything. Other than a few electronic issues that shouldn't affect operation... should they? the body and interior are immaculate... paint is perfect... all glass is good... the car has been mostly sitting for about 8 months, tabs expired in January... it was used to go to Idaho... owner claims 38 mpg on that trip. When I was talking to him on the phone I asked if he'd hop in that thing and drive it to Chicago right now... he said absolutely, I said great, because I'm leaving on Tuesday... that cracked him up... When I asked my wife which car she'd want to take to Chicago... the Jetta at 48 mpg or the Benz at 38 mpg... she was kind of put off that I even had to ask... ;) I think she likes the car... So, if the mechanical/electrical issues are manageable and not indicative of some massive underlying and ongoing problem that can't be solved with a little creative monster carport redesign... I may make the guy an offer tomorrow and do an oil change, pump up the tires and point that thing at Chicago... But, before I do that... I'll wait to hear from the collective... I started several of these lists back in the '90s to help folks out just like me... so, I'm listening... :) specs on the E300 at the bottom of that page... thanx for your assist... and if anyone is interested in a very nice, very clean, mechanically perfect, no flaws and only one minor ding on the rear fender, 2001 Rav4 with about 116k on it, let me know... we paid top book for it... $9800... the guy was asking $10k... and I would have had no problem paying that for it... ;) it is getting 21 mpg with regular unleaded, 23 mpg with premium... interesting... 9% difference in mileage, about 9% difference in costs. For the record, the issues I've heard about for the W210s are typically electrical: climate control, radio, wiring harness under hood, diesel fuel fittings (they were also replaced on this one), wheel lug nuts - not sure what the issue is, head light fogging and issues with windows... the 3.0L NA Diesel OM606 doesn't have a bad reputation that I'm aware of and the 5 speed automatic seems to be pretty solid in reputation as well. Any show stoppers kids? :) thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ vehicle city/hwy engine/trans/xfr - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2003 VW Jetta GLS Wagon TDI 40/48 mpg 1.9L TDI/5spd 2001 Toyota RAV4 L 23/27 mpg 2.0L EFI/AT/AWD 1983 Jeep J10 long box (SJ) ??/15 mpg 5.9L AT/NP208 (best mpg 17.68) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) (Superdawg)- under construction since 1999 getting '80 Scout SD33T Diesel, TF727/NP208 mpg: 20/24 expected -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3722 **************************