From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jun 25 20:59:21 2011 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, June 26 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3735 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: adventures with #27 fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... Re: fsj: Re: original tire size - 1963, conversion table??? RE: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... Re: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... Re: fsj: Re: original tire size - 1963, conversion table??? RE: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 22:15:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: adventures with #27 tomorrow I'm heading over to get some parts off of an '88 wag. hoping that I'll be able to find stuff that will work for my '83 J10. I'm getting the factory tranny cooler, even though it won't work with the rhino grille... I'm hoping the steering stabilizer setup can be made to work. and I'm going to get the wiper arms and maybe the entire motor setup. need to pickup some WVO and stuff at Lowes on the way... will be the second run with better seats and fuel lines... have had a couple folks look at the Rav4 so far... hopefully it'll go away soon. BTW, wagoneers.com is coming up for renewal again... any of you jeep fanatics win the lotto so you can buy the domain? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:59:08 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... just took #27 to run some errands... did pretty well until after a series of red lights... not sure why snohomish county doesn't syncronize lights, or maybe they do... so you purposely have to stop... anyway, driving along it kind of sputtered and missed... one or two backfires, flames out the pipe... then driving along it just stopped running... coasted to a stop... popped the hood, wiggled wires, checked the distributer cap/rotor... moved the spark plug wires around... couldn't see anything obvious... got back in the truck and it started right up and ran great. so I run some more errands and decide to get a quick bite to eat.. sitting in the drivethru it started missing and lopping... then died... the kind folks at the fast food place sent a couple of young backs out and they pushed it away from the window... I ate my sandwich, popped the hood, wiggled wires, and it started right up, smooth as glass... ok, so I run some more errands... get some parts at a guy's house... no problem restaring, almost home and it starts farting again... backfire out the pipe... weird... I limp it over the last hill before my house, try to keep it going... silence... so I drove up on the sidewalk right before the light at SR9... ok, repeat after me... Popped the hood, wiggled wires, hopped back in... started right up, smooth as glass... got it in the driveway now... going to install the steering stabilizer I picked up and while wrenching ponder this gremlin... oh yeah, one other interesting thing... I stopped at a hardware store for some hardware (since they didn't have coffee...) and locked the passenger door... then the radio came on... huh? I rewired it so it would only come on with the ignition... I turned it off... it came back on... off... on... off... on... pulled it's face off... it stayed off... went in, came back out... it was off... put its face back on... and it seemed ok. when I stopped and shut the truck off it came back on... but now it's ok... I'm wondering what kind of electrical short is happening... or could the engine dying be the ignition module... this J10 is simple, no power locks, windows, dang, doesn't even have a dome light... I'm thinking that the stereo could be shorting the ignition power to regular power, or something in the harness is doing that... but the engine stopping is likely a wire to the coil (picked up a new connector today) or the ignition module. I don't think I've ever had an ignition module fail on a 360 V8... or did I on a 4.2 once??? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:22:43 -0300 From: Ernesto Silva Subject: Re: fsj: Re: original tire size - 1963, conversion table??? Ok guys, I think I have the rear axle gear ratio, it's 4.27:1, or 47x11 teeth. I would prefer the 4.09:1 standard ratio (according to my Service Manual), but it is what it is, ;) The rear gears case says "44 - 1", so I guess it's a Dana 44. I got it running in the city today, It's like a "tractor", in 1st speed I think I get as much as 15 Kmph, say 10 Mph. Perhaps I'll put it on the road next weekend with my wife in the other car (a small 1992 Chevrolet Chevette) an test how accurate is the speed needle. Regards, Ernesto. On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Ernesto Silva wrote: > Well...mmmm..., I don't recall what I had for breakfast, so your > memory may be fuzzy for you but it's superb for me, ;) > > I don't know the gear ratio, I can remember some note on my J100 > manual about a plate bolted to the rear axle center "ball", I'll have > to take a look at it, maybe in the weekend (I leave home at 8AM and > get back at 11PM in working days). > If the plate it's not there then I can lift a wheel and put it into > neutral so I can rotate the transmission axle and count turns till I > have a complete wheel turn, maybe I'll have a half of the ratio or > double of it. > > I'll tell you the ratio when I get it. > > Thanks for your "lesson". > > Ernesto. > > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:43 AM, john wrote: >> the original size in 1963 was: 6.70 x 15, later changed to 7.10 x 15 4 ply > rating. >> >> I'm not sure what this translates to for today... if your tire diameter is > about 29.5 >> inches that would equate closely to the current 30 x 9.5 x 15. (29.3?) >> >> I got the original size information from Robert C. Ackerson's book The > Standard Catalog of Four Wheel Drives. It is >> a superb work, well documented and very rarely do I find any errors in it. > He has written several >> books, most popular is the 50 year jeep history... My copy of the Std Cat > of 4x4s is well worn, have a newer >> edition as well. >> >> >> In 1967-8 he cites 7.75x15, with the super wagoneer 8.45x15. Later I see > 10x15... I don't >> remember when tires changed from numbers to letters to the metric... I'm > sure someone will be >> able to provide a link to the exchange ratio. :) >> >> I don't usually guess, I try to look information up. If I'm not sure, I'll > say so. >> that said, from memory, a 235/75r15 is about 28.9 inches, 30x9.5 about 29.3, > a 31x10.5 about 30.3, >> give or take a little bit. I have it on my server in axle calculations.. I > should be within a half an inch on each of these... >> >> these are also the three tire sizes I typically work with on my jeeps... xj > and sj. >> >> although on this white j10 I may go undersized to help it out around > town... >> >> >> also in 1963 they used 4.89 gears, with 3.73 and 4.27 optional. the '67 > -'70's that >> I've owned were usually 3.73 gears. what's yours? >> >> >> john >> >> >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -o|||||o- >> Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 >> http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: >> >> # Does anyone knows which is the original tire size for a '63 Wagoneer? >> # >> # I've been looking at those tire diameter calculation web pages for 2 >> # seconds until I decided to measure it, about 75 cm or about 29.5 >> # inches. >> # >> # Now I need to know the original tires diameter so I can get the ratio >> # and calculate the "real" speed when the needle hits 80 Kmph. >> # >> # Regards, >> # Ernesto. >> # >> # On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:00 PM, john wrote: >> # > the '83 J10 is supposed to have: 225/75/15. >> # > >> # > it has 265/70/16's >> # > >> # > supposed to be 28.3 OD - is 30.6" OD - that's a 8.2% error (calculated > 9.x %...) >> # > >> # > if I stay with 16" rims I could run a 205/75/16 to be 0.6% too fast... > :) >> # > >> # > if I go smaller I will increase my gear ratio which will be better in > town, but I'm concerned about >> # > going too small... smaller tires will also bear less weight... 2.72 > gears really stink, unless >> # > you're trying to set a land speed record or something... not sure what > Jeep was thinking using these ratios. >> # > sure it's only turning about 1900 rpm at 60mph.. but getting to 60mph > requires a small oil tanker and a sundial... :) >> # > >> # > john >> # > >> # > >> # > ----- >> # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # > -o|||||o- >> # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 >> # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us >> # > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> # > >> # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 19:24:58 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... Coil connector, broken ignition slider. Bad battery connection. What happens if it dies and you let it sit a minute without moving the wires? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:59:08 -0700 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: fsj-at-digest.net > CC: DZAshby-at-comcast.net > Subject: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... > > just took #27 to run some errands... did pretty well until after > a series of red lights... not sure why snohomish county doesn't syncronize > lights, or maybe they do... so you purposely have to stop... > > anyway, driving along it kind of sputtered and missed... one or two backfires, flames out the pipe... > > then driving along it just stopped running... coasted to a stop... > popped the hood, wiggled wires, checked the distributer cap/rotor... > moved the spark plug wires around... couldn't see anything obvious... > > got back in the truck and it started right up and ran great. > > so I run some more errands and decide to get a quick bite to eat.. sitting in > the drivethru it started missing and lopping... then died... the kind folks > at the fast food place sent a couple of young backs out and they pushed it away > from the window... I ate my sandwich, popped the hood, wiggled wires, > and it started right up, smooth as glass... > > ok, so I run some more errands... get some parts at a guy's house... no problem restaring, > almost home and it starts farting again... backfire out the pipe... weird... I limp > it over the last hill before my house, try to keep it going... silence... so I drove > up on the sidewalk right before the light at SR9... > > ok, repeat after me... > > Popped the hood, wiggled wires, hopped back in... started right up, smooth as glass... > > got it in the driveway now... going to install the steering stabilizer I picked up and while > wrenching ponder this gremlin... > > oh yeah, one other interesting thing... I stopped at a hardware store for some hardware (since > they didn't have coffee...) and locked the passenger door... then the radio came on... huh? > I rewired it so it would only come on with the ignition... I turned it off... it came back > on... off... on... off... on... pulled it's face off... it stayed off... went in, came back > out... it was off... put its face back on... and it seemed ok. > > when I stopped and shut the truck off it came back on... but now it's ok... > > I'm wondering what kind of electrical short is happening... > > or could the engine dying be the ignition module... > > this J10 is simple, no power locks, windows, dang, doesn't even have a dome light... > > I'm thinking that the stereo could be shorting the ignition power to regular power, or > something in the harness is doing that... > > but the engine stopping is likely a wire to the coil (picked up a new connector today) or > the ignition module. > > I don't think I've ever had an ignition module fail on a 360 V8... or did I on a 4.2 once??? > > john > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:53:59 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... I think both you and jim are on to something. I bought a used connector but couldn't make it work, so put some better connectors on the stock coil. Don't think it's a heat thing, just poor connection. I need an aftermarket coil. Just swapped out my steering stabilizer plate. Going for a test run now. John *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** - -----Original Message----- From: "T.Halmshaw" Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:37:38 To: Subject: Re: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... John: Does it have the original coil or has it been upgraded to CDI?. Sounds typical of CDI cracked housing and arcing. Or even the top of a standard coil will do that if a slight crack is there. Stalls and after a few minutes of cooling will run fine again. Cheers Terry. On 26/06/2011 7:59:08 AM, john (john-at-wagoneers.com) wrote: > just took #27 to run some errands... did pretty well until after > a series of red lights... not sure why snohomish county > doesn't syncronize > lights, or maybe they do... so you purposely have to stop... > > anyway, driving along it kind of sputtered and missed... one or two backfires, flames out the pipe... > > then driving along it just stopped running... coasted to a stop... > popped the hood, wiggled wires, checked the distributer cap/rotor... > moved the spark plug wires around... couldn't > see anything obvious... > > got back in the truck and it started right up and ran great. > > so I run some more errands and decide to get a quick bite to eat.. sitting > in > the drivethru it started missing and lopping... then died... the kind > folks > at the fast food place sent a couple of young backs out and they > pushed it away > from the window... I ate my sandwich, popped the hood, wiggled wires, > and it started right up, smooth as glass... > > ok, so I run some more errands... get some parts at a > guy's house... no problem restaring, > almost home and it starts farting again... backfire out the pipe... weird... I limp > it over the last hill before my house, try to keep it going... silence ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: original tire size - 1963, conversion table??? you could always run larger tires, each tire size increase is about 3% effective ratio. the rear axle will be a Dana 44, the front is a Dana 27 if I'm not mistaken, drum brakes, closed knuckle, correct? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 25 Jun 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: # Ok guys, I think I have the rear axle gear ratio, it's 4.27:1, or # 47x11 teeth. I would prefer the 4.09:1 standard ratio (according to my # Service Manual), but it is what it is, ;) # The rear gears case says "44 - 1", so I guess it's a Dana 44. # # I got it running in the city today, It's like a "tractor", in 1st # speed I think I get as much as 15 Kmph, say 10 Mph. # # Perhaps I'll put it on the road next weekend with my wife in the other # car (a small 1992 Chevrolet Chevette) an test how accurate is the # speed needle. # # Regards, # Ernesto. # # On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Ernesto Silva wrote: # > Well...mmmm..., I don't recall what I had for breakfast, so your # > memory may be fuzzy for you but it's superb for me, ;) # > # > I don't know the gear ratio, I can remember some note on my J100 # > manual about a plate bolted to the rear axle center "ball", I'll have # > to take a look at it, maybe in the weekend (I leave home at 8AM and # > get back at 11PM in working days). # > If the plate it's not there then I can lift a wheel and put it into # > neutral so I can rotate the transmission axle and count turns till I # > have a complete wheel turn, maybe I'll have a half of the ratio or # > double of it. # > # > I'll tell you the ratio when I get it. # > # > Thanks for your "lesson". # > # > Ernesto. # > # > # > On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:43 AM, john wrote: # >> the original size in 1963 was: 6.70 x 15, later changed to 7.10 x 15 4 # ply # > rating. # >> # >> I'm not sure what this translates to for today... if your tire diameter # is # > about 29.5 # >> inches that would equate closely to the current 30 x 9.5 x 15. (29.3?) # >> # >> I got the original size information from Robert C. Ackerson's book The # > Standard Catalog of Four Wheel Drives. It is # >> a superb work, well documented and very rarely do I find any errors in it. # > He has written several # >> books, most popular is the 50 year jeep history... My copy of the Std Cat # > of 4x4s is well worn, have a newer # >> edition as well. # >> # >> # >> In 1967-8 he cites 7.75x15, with the super wagoneer 8.45x15. Later I see # > 10x15... I don't # >> remember when tires changed from numbers to letters to the metric... I'm # > sure someone will be # >> able to provide a link to the exchange ratio. :) # >> # >> I don't usually guess, I try to look information up. If I'm not sure, # I'll # > say so. # >> that said, from memory, a 235/75r15 is about 28.9 inches, 30x9.5 about # 29.3, # > a 31x10.5 about 30.3, # >> give or take a little bit. I have it on my server in axle calculations.. I # > should be within a half an inch on each of these... # >> # >> these are also the three tire sizes I typically work with on my jeeps... # xj # > and sj. # >> # >> although on this white j10 I may go undersized to help it out around # > town... # >> # >> # >> also in 1963 they used 4.89 gears, with 3.73 and 4.27 optional. the '67 # > -'70's that # >> I've owned were usually 3.73 gears. what's yours? # >> # >> # >> john # >> # >> # >> # >> ----- # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> -o|||||o- # >> Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # >> http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> # >> # >> On Tue, 21 Jun 2011, Ernesto Silva wrote: # >> # >> # Does anyone knows which is the original tire size for a '63 Wagoneer? # >> # # >> # I've been looking at those tire diameter calculation web pages for 2 # >> # seconds until I decided to measure it, about 75 cm or about 29.5 # >> # inches. # >> # # >> # Now I need to know the original tires diameter so I can get the ratio # >> # and calculate the "real" speed when the needle hits 80 Kmph. # >> # # >> # Regards, # >> # Ernesto. # >> # # >> # On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:00 PM, john wrote: # >> # > the '83 J10 is supposed to have: 225/75/15. # >> # > # >> # > it has 265/70/16's # >> # > # >> # > supposed to be 28.3 OD - is 30.6" OD - that's a 8.2% error # (calculated # > 9.x %...) # >> # > # >> # > if I stay with 16" rims I could run a 205/75/16 to be 0.6% too # fast... # > :) # >> # > # >> # > if I go smaller I will increase my gear ratio which will be better in # > town, but I'm concerned about # >> # > going too small... smaller tires will also bear less weight... 2.72 # > gears really stink, unless # >> # > you're trying to set a land speed record or something... not sure # what # > Jeep was thinking using these ratios. # >> # > sure it's only turning about 1900 rpm at 60mph.. but getting to 60mph # > requires a small oil tanker and a sundial... :) # >> # > # >> # > john # >> # > # >> # > # >> # > ----- # >> # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> # > -o|||||o- # >> # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # >> # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # >> # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # >> # > # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # >> # > # >> # # ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 20:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... coil connection I put some better connectors on... installed the steering stabilizer plate from the '88 GW... not sure what olympic was so far off... they said the j10 was different... appears to be the same. anyway, test drove it up to clearview, drove around, came home left it running moved some wood around to put up top... free kindling for anyone... and it behaved well... so the loose connector would explain the backfire, quitting, then after wiggling, started right back up... need to get a decent after market coil and put some real connectors on this, and rewire that part of the harness, the wires are brittle. spent most of the day running errands with the J10 or pulling parts... put the correct wipers on it... stabilzer and better coil connectors... not sure what the radio was up to... weird... think it's fritzing out on it's own... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Sat, 25 Jun 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # # Coil connector, broken ignition slider. Bad battery connection. What happens if it dies and you let it sit a minute without moving the wires? # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # > Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 14:59:08 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: fsj-at-digest.net # > CC: DZAshby-at-comcast.net # > Subject: fsj: sometimes it do, sometimes it don't... # > # > just took #27 to run some errands... did pretty well until after # > a series of red lights... not sure why snohomish county doesn't syncronize # > lights, or maybe they do... so you purposely have to stop... # > # > anyway, driving along it kind of sputtered and missed... one or two backfires, flames out the pipe... # > # > then driving along it just stopped running... coasted to a stop... # > popped the hood, wiggled wires, checked the distributer cap/rotor... # > moved the spark plug wires around... couldn't see anything obvious... # > # > got back in the truck and it started right up and ran great. # > # > so I run some more errands and decide to get a quick bite to eat.. sitting in # > the drivethru it started missing and lopping... then died... the kind folks # > at the fast food place sent a couple of young backs out and they pushed it away # > from the window... I ate my sandwich, popped the hood, wiggled wires, # > and it started right up, smooth as glass... # > # > ok, so I run some more errands... get some parts at a guy's house... no problem restaring, # > almost home and it starts farting again... backfire out the pipe... weird... I limp # > it over the last hill before my house, try to keep it going... silence... so I drove # > up on the sidewalk right before the light at SR9... # > # > ok, repeat after me... # > # > Popped the hood, wiggled wires, hopped back in... started right up, smooth as glass... # > # > got it in the driveway now... going to install the steering stabilizer I picked up and while # > wrenching ponder this gremlin... # > # > oh yeah, one other interesting thing... I stopped at a hardware store for some hardware (since # > they didn't have coffee...) and locked the passenger door... then the radio came on... huh? # > I rewired it so it would only come on with the ignition... I turned it off... it came back # > on... off... on... off... on... pulled it's face off... it stayed off... went in, came back # > out... it was off... put its face back on... and it seemed ok. # > # > when I stopped and shut the truck off it came back on... but now it's ok... # > # > I'm wondering what kind of electrical short is happening... # > # > or could the engine dying be the ignition module... # > # > this J10 is simple, no power locks, windows, dang, doesn't even have a dome light... # > # > I'm thinking that the stereo could be shorting the ignition power to regular power, or # > something in the harness is doing that... # > # > but the engine stopping is likely a wire to the coil (picked up a new connector today) or # > the ignition module. # > # > I don't think I've ever had an ignition module fail on a 360 V8... or did I on a 4.2 once??? # > # > john # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > -o|||||o- # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3735 **************************