From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed May 23 11:28:00 2012 From: fsj-digest To: fsj-digest-at-digest.net Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 18:28:07 +0000 Subject: fsj-digest V1 #3920 fsj-digest Wednesday, May 23 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3920 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... RE: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... RE: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:38:07 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... Sounds like you need to look at tractor parts or possibly Ford diesel. I was looking at a Dodge 3 ton LCF (low cab forward) here with a Perkins in it last summer. Is it a fender and not starter mounted unit? If it is on the starter, that is a classic symptom of badly worn nose bushing and/or low charged battery. If the voltage drops to low while cranking, the extra amps drawn can weld the solenoid contacts together. > Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:10:50 -0300 > Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... > From: erniesilva-at-gmail.com > To: michelbalea-at-gmail.com > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > Many thanks Michael, I'll try those links and see what I can get. > > Ernesto. > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Michel Balea wrote: > > > You're welcome, always trying to find a part that may fit. Sometimes we go > > to the extreme ... one of my bike has so many parts from other bikes, that > > I need to keep track of which year and model it is built from, at least it > > is from the same brand. > > > > Lucas electrical are known for their 3 position system, off, dim, flicker. > > > > You might be able to find a solenoid, which is remote Heavy-Duty switch at > > at marine supply store. > > > > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId= 10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=1654680&langId=-1&searchKeyword=solenoid+start er > > > > Cheers, > > > > Michel > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Ernesto Silva wrote: > > > >> Thanks Michael, but in my country (Uruguay) there are only a handful of > >> Wags, and the engine is from England, a Perkins. > >> There are also Perkins factories in Brazil and Argentine. In Brazil the > >> main products are engines for Massey Ferguson tractors. In Argentine they > >> build general engines, that's the reason why I expect to buy a solenoid > >> from that make. > >> The original "Lucas" make from England is very rare on these days and > >> these latitudes. > >> > >> Many thanks for your comments, > >> Ernesto. > >> > >> > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michel Balea wrote: > >> > >>> Depending on how many wires yu have on the solenoid, yu may be able to > >>> use the one for the fsj gas version....60s, 70's and 80's version have all > >>> the possibilities, beside the 2 main wires, yu can have, 1, 2 or 3 > >>> auxiliary wires. > >>> Someone will chime in... > >>> Good job on the repairs. > >>> Michel > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On May 23, 2012, at 7:20, Ernesto Silva wrote: > >>> > >>> > .... but no more, I was able to use it for 2 days, grrrrr. > >>> > > >>> > After some work which started about 2 months ago I did the following: > >>> > > >>> > 1 - changed the starter motor solenoid because it did not connect the > >>> motor. > >>> > 2 - took out the engine because 2 of the starter motor bolts where bad > >>> and > >>> > I had to enlarge the holes and make new threads (no nuts, threads in > >>> the > >>> > gears case). > >>> > With the engine on a bench I: > >>> > 3 - I rebuild the clutch and put a new bearing. > >>> > 4 - I changed the first diesel pump gasket because of a leak. > >>> > 5 - I changed the oil > >>> > 6 - I changed the fan blades for a plastic ones, the old steel blades > >>> where > >>> > seriously cracked > >>> > 7 - I changed the oil meter, the iron tube to measure oil level got > >>> broke > >>> > when I took out the engine. > >>> > 8 - I got the main clutch cylinder rebuild, the same with the one on > >>> the > >>> > clutch. > >>> > 9 - I changed the hole clutch hydraulic circuit > >>> > 10 - I changed the temperature meter, the old one got broke with the > >>> engine > >>> > movement. > >>> > > >>> > So a bad solenoid got me repairing many things, but finally the truck > >>> was > >>> > back on track... for 2 days, or less. > >>> > > >>> > The solenoid got stuck and the starter motor is ON all the time, > >>> luckily I > >>> > installed a main battery switch 6 months ago so I can cut all current > >>> > supply, that stopped the motor. > >>> > > >>> > Dammed Chinese manufacturers, the solenoid is from China, I didn't > >>> used it > >>> > for more than 20 times, I knew it was not of good quality, but this is > >>> > totally unacceptable. And of course, I can't get my money back (approx > >>> 50 > >>> > dollars) because electrical pieces has no guaranty, at least in the > >>> shop > >>> > where I bought it. > >>> > > >>> > So next step is to visit many shops till I find a new solenoid, NOT > >>> from > >>> > China, the best one should be a Lucas from UK, the second made in > >>> > Argentina. Another option is to try to buy a used one, but I can't > >>> know in > >>> > which condition it will be. > >>> > > >>> > The engine is a 4.203 diesel Perkins from England, 1976. It starts > >>> great > >>> > with a small battery, consumes some oil because of some worn but it > >>> really > >>> > works fine. > >>> > > >>> > Ernesto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:13:25 -0300 From: Ernesto Silva Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... Jim, it is a starter mounted unit. The symptom is that when I connect the main switch (not a key turn) the motor starts but the front gear is not engaged into the big one on the back of the engine. The starter motor spins alone, I suspect that is because the internal contacts got stuck although the solenoid core is in "relaxed" position. I don't need to turn the key to spin the motor, just connect the many battery switch. Ernesto. On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > Sounds like you need to look at tractor parts or possibly Ford diesel. I > was > looking at a Dodge 3 ton LCF (low cab forward) here with a Perkins in it > last > summer. > Is it a fender and not starter mounted unit? If it is on the starter, > that > is a classic symptom of badly worn nose bushing and/or low charged > battery. If > the voltage drops to low while cranking, the extra amps drawn can weld the > solenoid contacts together. > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:10:50 -0300 > > Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... > > From: erniesilva-at-gmail.com > > To: michelbalea-at-gmail.com > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > > > Many thanks Michael, I'll try those links and see what I can get. > > > > Ernesto. > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Michel Balea > wrote: > > > > > You're welcome, always trying to find a part that may fit. Sometimes we > go > > > to the extreme ... one of my bike has so many parts from other bikes, > that > > > I need to keep track of which year and model it is built from, at least > it > > > is from the same brand. > > > > > > Lucas electrical are known for their 3 position system, off, dim, > flicker. > > > > > > You might be able to find a solenoid, which is remote Heavy-Duty switch > at > > > at marine supply store. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId= > > 10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=1654680&langId=-1&searchKeyword=solenoid+start > er > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Ernesto Silva > wrote: > > > > > >> Thanks Michael, but in my country (Uruguay) there are only a handful > of > > >> Wags, and the engine is from England, a Perkins. > > >> There are also Perkins factories in Brazil and Argentine. In Brazil > the > > >> main products are engines for Massey Ferguson tractors. In Argentine > they > > >> build general engines, that's the reason why I expect to buy a > solenoid > > >> from that make. > > >> The original "Lucas" make from England is very rare on these days and > > >> these latitudes. > > >> > > >> Many thanks for your comments, > > >> Ernesto. > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michel Balea > wrote: > > >> > > >>> Depending on how many wires yu have on the solenoid, yu may be able > to > > >>> use the one for the fsj gas version....60s, 70's and 80's version > have > all > > >>> the possibilities, beside the 2 main wires, yu can have, 1, 2 or 3 > > >>> auxiliary wires. > > >>> Someone will chime in... > > >>> Good job on the repairs. > > >>> Michel > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On May 23, 2012, at 7:20, Ernesto Silva > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > .... but no more, I was able to use it for 2 days, grrrrr. > > >>> > > > >>> > After some work which started about 2 months ago I did the > following: > > >>> > > > >>> > 1 - changed the starter motor solenoid because it did not connect > the > > >>> motor. > > >>> > 2 - took out the engine because 2 of the starter motor bolts where > bad > > >>> and > > >>> > I had to enlarge the holes and make new threads (no nuts, threads > in > > >>> the > > >>> > gears case). > > >>> > With the engine on a bench I: > > >>> > 3 - I rebuild the clutch and put a new bearing. > > >>> > 4 - I changed the first diesel pump gasket because of a leak. > > >>> > 5 - I changed the oil > > >>> > 6 - I changed the fan blades for a plastic ones, the old steel > blades > > >>> where > > >>> > seriously cracked > > >>> > 7 - I changed the oil meter, the iron tube to measure oil level got > > >>> broke > > >>> > when I took out the engine. > > >>> > 8 - I got the main clutch cylinder rebuild, the same with the one > on > > >>> the > > >>> > clutch. > > >>> > 9 - I changed the hole clutch hydraulic circuit > > >>> > 10 - I changed the temperature meter, the old one got broke with > the > > >>> engine > > >>> > movement. > > >>> > > > >>> > So a bad solenoid got me repairing many things, but finally the > truck > > >>> was > > >>> > back on track... for 2 days, or less. > > >>> > > > >>> > The solenoid got stuck and the starter motor is ON all the time, > > >>> luckily I > > >>> > installed a main battery switch 6 months ago so I can cut all > current > > >>> > supply, that stopped the motor. > > >>> > > > >>> > Dammed Chinese manufacturers, the solenoid is from China, I didn't > > >>> used it > > >>> > for more than 20 times, I knew it was not of good quality, but this > is > > >>> > totally unacceptable. And of course, I can't get my money back > (approx > > >>> 50 > > >>> > dollars) because electrical pieces has no guaranty, at least in the > > >>> shop > > >>> > where I bought it. > > >>> > > > >>> > So next step is to visit many shops till I find a new solenoid, NOT > > >>> from > > >>> > China, the best one should be a Lucas from UK, the second made in > > >>> > Argentina. Another option is to try to buy a used one, but I can't > > >>> know in > > >>> > which condition it will be. > > >>> > > > >>> > The engine is a 4.203 diesel Perkins from England, 1976. It starts > > >>> great > > >>> > with a small battery, consumes some oil because of some worn but it > > >>> really > > >>> > works fine. > > >>> > > > >>> > Ernesto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:22:31 -0500 From: "Potter, Tom E" Subject: RE: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... I assume that you know the small connection on the solenoid provides power to pull the drive pinion into the ring gear? If you just jumper the two large terminals, the starter will only spin. Try jumpering the large hot wire and the small connection and see if the solenoid operates. If not, the solenoid is failing internally. Thomas E. Potter - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Ernesto Silva Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:13 PM To: Jim Blair Cc: michelbalea-at-gmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... Jim, it is a starter mounted unit. The symptom is that when I connect the main switch (not a key turn) the motor starts but the front gear is not engaged into the big one on the back of the engine. The starter motor spins alone, I suspect that is because the internal contacts got stuck although the solenoid core is in "relaxed" position. I don't need to turn the key to spin the motor, just connect the many battery switch. Ernesto. On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > Sounds like you need to look at tractor parts or possibly Ford diesel. I > was > looking at a Dodge 3 ton LCF (low cab forward) here with a Perkins in it > last > summer. > Is it a fender and not starter mounted unit? If it is on the starter, > that > is a classic symptom of badly worn nose bushing and/or low charged > battery. If > the voltage drops to low while cranking, the extra amps drawn can weld the > solenoid contacts together. > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:10:50 -0300 > > Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... > > From: erniesilva-at-gmail.com > > To: michelbalea-at-gmail.com > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > > > Many thanks Michael, I'll try those links and see what I can get. > > > > Ernesto. > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Michel Balea > wrote: > > > > > You're welcome, always trying to find a part that may fit. Sometimes we > go > > > to the extreme ... one of my bike has so many parts from other bikes, > that > > > I need to keep track of which year and model it is built from, at least > it > > > is from the same brand. > > > > > > Lucas electrical are known for their 3 position system, off, dim, > flicker. > > > > > > You might be able to find a solenoid, which is remote Heavy-Duty switch > at > > > at marine supply store. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId= > > 10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=1654680&langId=-1&searchKeyword=solenoid+start > er > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Ernesto Silva > wrote: > > > > > >> Thanks Michael, but in my country (Uruguay) there are only a handful > of > > >> Wags, and the engine is from England, a Perkins. > > >> There are also Perkins factories in Brazil and Argentine. In Brazil > the > > >> main products are engines for Massey Ferguson tractors. In Argentine > they > > >> build general engines, that's the reason why I expect to buy a > solenoid > > >> from that make. > > >> The original "Lucas" make from England is very rare on these days and > > >> these latitudes. > > >> > > >> Many thanks for your comments, > > >> Ernesto. > > >> > > >> > > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michel Balea > wrote: > > >> > > >>> Depending on how many wires yu have on the solenoid, yu may be able > to > > >>> use the one for the fsj gas version....60s, 70's and 80's version > have > all > > >>> the possibilities, beside the 2 main wires, yu can have, 1, 2 or 3 > > >>> auxiliary wires. > > >>> Someone will chime in... > > >>> Good job on the repairs. > > >>> Michel > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On May 23, 2012, at 7:20, Ernesto Silva > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > .... but no more, I was able to use it for 2 days, grrrrr. > > >>> > > > >>> > After some work which started about 2 months ago I did the > following: > > >>> > > > >>> > 1 - changed the starter motor solenoid because it did not connect > the > > >>> motor. > > >>> > 2 - took out the engine because 2 of the starter motor bolts where > bad > > >>> and > > >>> > I had to enlarge the holes and make new threads (no nuts, threads > in > > >>> the > > >>> > gears case). > > >>> > With the engine on a bench I: > > >>> > 3 - I rebuild the clutch and put a new bearing. > > >>> > 4 - I changed the first diesel pump gasket because of a leak. > > >>> > 5 - I changed the oil > > >>> > 6 - I changed the fan blades for a plastic ones, the old steel > blades > > >>> where > > >>> > seriously cracked > > >>> > 7 - I changed the oil meter, the iron tube to measure oil level got > > >>> broke > > >>> > when I took out the engine. > > >>> > 8 - I got the main clutch cylinder rebuild, the same with the one > on > > >>> the > > >>> > clutch. > > >>> > 9 - I changed the hole clutch hydraulic circuit > > >>> > 10 - I changed the temperature meter, the old one got broke with > the > > >>> engine > > >>> > movement. > > >>> > > > >>> > So a bad solenoid got me repairing many things, but finally the > truck > > >>> was > > >>> > back on track... for 2 days, or less. > > >>> > > > >>> > The solenoid got stuck and the starter motor is ON all the time, > > >>> luckily I > > >>> > installed a main battery switch 6 months ago so I can cut all > current > > >>> > supply, that stopped the motor. > > >>> > > > >>> > Dammed Chinese manufacturers, the solenoid is from China, I didn't > > >>> used it > > >>> > for more than 20 times, I knew it was not of good quality, but this > is > > >>> > totally unacceptable. And of course, I can't get my money back > (approx > > >>> 50 > > >>> > dollars) because electrical pieces has no guaranty, at least in the > > >>> shop > > >>> > where I bought it. > > >>> > > > >>> > So next step is to visit many shops till I find a new solenoid, NOT > > >>> from > > >>> > China, the best one should be a Lucas from UK, the second made in > > >>> > Argentina. Another option is to try to buy a used one, but I can't > > >>> know in > > >>> > which condition it will be. > > >>> > > > >>> > The engine is a 4.203 diesel Perkins from England, 1976. It starts > > >>> great > > >>> > with a small battery, consumes some oil because of some worn but it > > >>> really > > >>> > works fine. > > >>> > > > >>> > Ernesto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 11:27:55 -0700 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... The solenoid is not pulling the gear into the ring gear, OR possibly the teeth in the drive shattered and bound up the contacts?? Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:13:25 -0300 > Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... > From: erniesilva-at-gmail.com > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com > CC: michelbalea-at-gmail.com; fsj-at-digest.net > > Jim, it is a starter mounted unit. The symptom is that when I connect the > main switch (not a key turn) the motor starts but the front gear is not > engaged into the big one on the back of the engine. The starter motor spins > alone, I suspect that is because the internal contacts got stuck although > the solenoid core is in "relaxed" position. > I don't need to turn the key to spin the motor, just connect the many > battery switch. > > Ernesto. > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 1:38 PM, Jim Blair wrote: > > > Sounds like you need to look at tractor parts or possibly Ford diesel. I > > was > > looking at a Dodge 3 ton LCF (low cab forward) here with a Perkins in it > > last > > summer. > > Is it a fender and not starter mounted unit? If it is on the starter, > > that > > is a classic symptom of badly worn nose bushing and/or low charged > > battery. If > > the voltage drops to low while cranking, the extra amps drawn can weld the > > solenoid contacts together. > > > > > Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:10:50 -0300 > > > Subject: Re: fsj: My '63 Wag WAS back on track... > > > From: erniesilva-at-gmail.com > > > To: michelbalea-at-gmail.com > > > CC: fsj-at-digest.net > > > > > > Many thanks Michael, I'll try those links and see what I can get. > > > > > > Ernesto. > > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Michel Balea > > wrote: > > > > > > > You're welcome, always trying to find a part that may fit. Sometimes we > > go > > > > to the extreme ... one of my bike has so many parts from other bikes, > > that > > > > I need to keep track of which year and model it is built from, at least > > it > > > > is from the same brand. > > > > > > > > Lucas electrical are known for their 3 position system, off, dim, > > flicker. > > > > > > > > You might be able to find a solenoid, which is remote Heavy-Duty switch > > at > > > > at marine supply store. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId= > > > > 10001&storeId=11151&partNumber=1654680&langId=-1&searchKeyword=solenoid+start > > er > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Michel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Ernesto Silva > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Thanks Michael, but in my country (Uruguay) there are only a handful > > of > > > >> Wags, and the engine is from England, a Perkins. > > > >> There are also Perkins factories in Brazil and Argentine. In Brazil > > the > > > >> main products are engines for Massey Ferguson tractors. In Argentine > > they > > > >> build general engines, that's the reason why I expect to buy a > > solenoid > > > >> from that make. > > > >> The original "Lucas" make from England is very rare on these days and > > > >> these latitudes. > > > >> > > > >> Many thanks for your comments, > > > >> Ernesto. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Michel Balea > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Depending on how many wires yu have on the solenoid, yu may be able > > to > > > >>> use the one for the fsj gas version....60s, 70's and 80's version > > have > > all > > > >>> the possibilities, beside the 2 main wires, yu can have, 1, 2 or 3 > > > >>> auxiliary wires. > > > >>> Someone will chime in... > > > >>> Good job on the repairs. > > > >>> Michel > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On May 23, 2012, at 7:20, Ernesto Silva > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > .... but no more, I was able to use it for 2 days, grrrrr. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > After some work which started about 2 months ago I did the > > following: > > > >>> > > > > >>> > 1 - changed the starter motor solenoid because it did not connect > > the > > > >>> motor. > > > >>> > 2 - took out the engine because 2 of the starter motor bolts where > > bad > > > >>> and > > > >>> > I had to enlarge the holes and make new threads (no nuts, threads > > in > > > >>> the > > > >>> > gears case). > > > >>> > With the engine on a bench I: > > > >>> > 3 - I rebuild the clutch and put a new bearing. > > > >>> > 4 - I changed the first diesel pump gasket because of a leak. > > > >>> > 5 - I changed the oil > > > >>> > 6 - I changed the fan blades for a plastic ones, the old steel > > blades > > > >>> where > > > >>> > seriously cracked > > > >>> > 7 - I changed the oil meter, the iron tube to measure oil level got > > > >>> broke > > > >>> > when I took out the engine. > > > >>> > 8 - I got the main clutch cylinder rebuild, the same with the one > > on > > > >>> the > > > >>> > clutch. > > > >>> > 9 - I changed the hole clutch hydraulic circuit > > > >>> > 10 - I changed the temperature meter, the old one got broke with > > the > > > >>> engine > > > >>> > movement. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > So a bad solenoid got me repairing many things, but finally the > > truck > > > >>> was > > > >>> > back on track... for 2 days, or less. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > The solenoid got stuck and the starter motor is ON all the time, > > > >>> luckily I > > > >>> > installed a main battery switch 6 months ago so I can cut all > > current > > > >>> > supply, that stopped the motor. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Dammed Chinese manufacturers, the solenoid is from China, I didn't > > > >>> used it > > > >>> > for more than 20 times, I knew it was not of good quality, but this > > is > > > >>> > totally unacceptable. And of course, I can't get my money back > > (approx > > > >>> 50 > > > >>> > dollars) because electrical pieces has no guaranty, at least in the > > > >>> shop > > > >>> > where I bought it. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > So next step is to visit many shops till I find a new solenoid, NOT > > > >>> from > > > >>> > China, the best one should be a Lucas from UK, the second made in > > > >>> > Argentina. Another option is to try to buy a used one, but I can't > > > >>> know in > > > >>> > which condition it will be. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > The engine is a 4.203 diesel Perkins from England, 1976. It starts > > > >>> great > > > >>> > with a small battery, consumes some oil because of some worn but it > > > >>> really > > > >>> > works fine. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Ernesto ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #3920 **************************